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 Awesomesauce wrote:
So eadwompa missile with 10 boys in a trukk, nob+ pk, and boss wiv da wompa? Sounds really risky, super expensive, and horribly unlikely to work, but when it does....

yeah I think throwing something ridiculous like that together really helps to highlight all of the flaws in each of those strategies individually...

I agree a bikerboss is probably the best bet, and at least he won't just get kited the whole time, but throwing him with bob nikerz seems like a total waste, since the WK will just slap them all silly. Maybe bikerboyz to soak wounds since they're fast enough and cheaper than NBs? still seems like a big waste of points to me though

The 'eadwompa warboss has a 45% chance of splatting his opponent on the charge, a little more than that if you take an attack squig. Given enough ablative wounds to be crushed by the big guy's sword, he usually ends up getting beheaded within two rounds of combat.

 koooaei wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
Anyone else getting the feeling that normal Boyz aren't worth it in a list other than Green Tide?

For an Ork Warband detachment that doesn't get obsec 3 units of 10 grots is plenty to scrabble around getting objectives, meanwhile all the other slots are full of great units (tank bustaz, Manz, bikes, buggies, Kommandoz, Stormboys etc etc).

Normal Boyz couldn't get across the board in 6th and nothing much has changed in that department in 7th, why not just take the best of the best?

The problem with grots is that they're really overpriced for their stats. Conscripts cost the same but are +1s, +1t, +1ini, 5+ armor and carry a lazgun. Also, they're fearless more often than not with 25 pts priests. Grots are bad troops also. At least boyz can kick some faces from time to time and won't die to outflanking scouts.

I think that if you want to take something to grab backfield points - our troops are bad for that role. Just take those big gunz u're gona use anywayz. If you got free FA slot, take a couple of koptas with tl bs to just shoot at something and still be there for obj grabbing with their awesome mobility.

You got to take troops unless you play unbound, so why not just make them worthy? 20 boyz with a nob are still vulnerable on their own but they'll at least help out on the frontline. Orkses are all about overhelming the opponent with too many threats to deal with.

Let's think of stuff that can be used for scoring effectively.

The problem is;

You bring boys, they sit backfield and see no action. They sit on some objectives and get you some VP's. In this scenario the grots would have been just as effective, as there stats are irrelevant. So by bringing grots you save points. you talk about the boys helping on the front line, but how are they helping the front line when their backfield holding objectives? if there at the front their not helping hold objectives. their roles contradict. Thats why you use grots. They are cheaper and not meant to see much action.

Comparing them to conscripts is also not really the point imo. IG sit back and want to shoot you in the face, therefore their game plan is already different to yours. the large majority of your units want to get in their grill. So typically in terms of spread your way more likely to be further into the IG side of the board. So yeh if he has some outflanking units grots are vunerable, but you knew that anyway and should be addressing his outflanking with a plan, rather than letting them come on and wipe your grots

Boys want to be krumpin not standing about like little spascehhh maahinessss.
grots want to be standing about and not krumpin (although they dream of it).

They have separate roles even though they are both troops and should be used that way.

Solar Shock wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
Anyone else getting the feeling that normal Boyz aren't worth it in a list other than Green Tide?

For an Ork Warband detachment that doesn't get obsec 3 units of 10 grots is plenty to scrabble around getting objectives, meanwhile all the other slots are full of great units (tank bustaz, Manz, bikes, buggies, Kommandoz, Stormboys etc etc).

Normal Boyz couldn't get across the board in 6th and nothing much has changed in that department in 7th, why not just take the best of the best?

The problem with grots is that they're really overpriced for their stats. Conscripts cost the same but are +1s, +1t, +1ini, 5+ armor and carry a lazgun. Also, they're fearless more often than not with 25 pts priests. Grots are bad troops also. At least boyz can kick some faces from time to time and won't die to outflanking scouts.

I think that if you want to take something to grab backfield points - our troops are bad for that role. Just take those big gunz u're gona use anywayz. If you got free FA slot, take a couple of koptas with tl bs to just shoot at something and still be there for obj grabbing with their awesome mobility.

You got to take troops unless you play unbound, so why not just make them worthy? 20 boyz with a nob are still vulnerable on their own but they'll at least help out on the frontline. Orkses are all about overhelming the opponent with too many threats to deal with.

Let's think of stuff that can be used for scoring effectively.

The problem is;

You bring boys, they sit backfield and see no action. They sit on some objectives and get you some VP's. In this scenario the grots would have been just as effective, as there stats are irrelevant. So by bringing grots you save points. you talk about the boys helping on the front line, but how are they helping the front line when their backfield holding objectives? if there at the front their not helping hold objectives. their roles contradict. Thats why you use grots. They are cheaper and not meant to see much action.

Comparing them to conscripts is also not really the point imo. IG sit back and want to shoot you in the face, therefore their game plan is already different to yours. the large majority of your units want to get in their grill. So typically in terms of spread your way more likely to be further into the IG side of the board. So yeh if he has some outflanking units grots are vunerable, but you knew that anyway and should be addressing his outflanking with a plan, rather than letting them come on and wipe your grots

Boys want to be krumpin not standing about like little spascehhh maahinessss.
grots want to be standing about and not krumpin (although they dream of it).

They have separate roles even though they are both troops and should be used that way.

I think you completely misunderstood my point. Actually you've understood the opposite of what i've written Maybe my english ain't good enough, i'll try to explain once again.

You have to take troops.
You need to score the backfield.
Everything can score now.

OK, those are the main statements.

If you take min grots - they're cheap pointwise but are very fragile and i'd say they're easy VP for the opponent. It's super easy to take out 11 t2 wounds. They can GTG every turn and have 4+ or even 3+ cover - that's not bad but the opponent usually has plenty of ignore cover stuff and our ld is not reliable to say the least. And this 70-80 pt of grots don't contribute to the frontline even a tiny bit.

If you take min orkses squads - they're almost 2 times as expensive as grots but are way tougher and can have BS or Rokkit launcha. Still quite vulnerable and almost don't contribute to the frontline but at least can hold their own vs something like fast flamer skimmers or outflanking small squads of enemies. They can even handle a deepstriking crysis suit if they're lucky to survive the shooting.

But i suggest to look in another direction. We have scoring backfield shooty support. We can have awesome scoring koptas that are very fast and fairly tough, besides, have mid-long ranged weapons to help out a bit. But we still need troops. And we can make boyz fairly decent. You spend 145 pts and get 20 sluggaboyz with 2 rokkits and bp nob, +25 pts and the nob gets PK but if you're short on pts even a regular one will do. They'll be not bad when you consider that they're another threat on the front.

Thus, my point is - use something else to score the backfield and not troops. Make troops decent and use them on the front.

Agree. Anything can score backfield, so gretchin really don't have anything going for them. If you add their minimum 35 points to something it suddenly becomes a lot less good.
While boyz are no longer a no-brainer choice, they still can have a major impact on the game. Over the course of a game a transport, some unit that managed to dodge being wiped out or someone stranded in the middle of nowhere will do that job just as well without being a 70 point handicap.

 koooaei wrote:


I think you completely misunderstood my point. Actually you've understood the opposite of what i've written Maybe my english ain't good enough, i'll try to explain once again.

You have to take troops.
You need to score the backfield.
Everything can score now.

OK, those are the main statements.

If you take min grots - they're cheap pointwise but are very fragile and i'd say they're easy VP for the opponent. It's super easy to take out 11 t2 wounds. They can GTG every turn and have 4+ or even 3+ cover - that's not bad but the opponent usually has plenty of ignore cover stuff and our ld is not reliable to say the least. And this 70-80 pt of grots don't contribute to the frontline even a tiny bit.

If you take min orkses squads - they're almost 2 times as expensive as grots but are way tougher and can have BS or Rokkit launcha. Still quite vulnerable and almost don't contribute to the frontline but at least can hold their own vs something like fast flamer skimmers or outflanking small squads of enemies. They can even handle a deepstriking crysis suit if they're lucky to survive the shooting.

But i suggest to look in another direction. We have scoring backfield shooty support. We can have awesome scoring koptas that are very fast and fairly tough, besides, have mid-long ranged weapons to help out a bit. But we still need troops. And we can make boyz fairly decent. You spend 145 pts and get 20 sluggaboyz with 2 rokkits and bp nob, +25 pts and the nob gets PK but if you're short on pts even a regular one will do. They'll be not bad when you consider that they're another threat on the front.

Thus, my point is - use something else to score the backfield and not troops. Make troops decent and use them on the front.

Ahhh gotcha

Yeh, i liked the idea of using koptas i forgot to mention
but I get your point now

How have you found using lobbas or mek guns to hold backfield objectives? I was thinking that putting them on an objective simply makes them a strong target for DS'ers or outflanking. But then again even if you dont they are likely to target the guns and then move on to the objective in the following turn. so meh, seems practical to simply have them on it then.

Blitz brigade with boys, then pick up the barebones trukk for each unit; to cart about in the backfield scoring objectives? also able to pick up any stranded units and Block LOS if really needed.

Hmmmm actually backfield trucks are an awesome idea! If you have footslogging squads, why not take a 30 pts truck with a bigshoota or even rokkit just to sit on those points! And it's mobility will allow capturing whatever's close there! I guess we have no problems with backfield scoring at all! And those trucks are gona be objective secured to boot

Lobbas are great for scoring. They're super tough to get killed from range with anything that's not s8+ or poisoned. And even so, if those gunz shoot at 100 pts of lobbas, those are allready points that payed off! And there are generally not that much mellee threats that are lurking at your backfield.

 koooaei wrote:
Hmmmm actually backfield trucks are an awesome idea! If you have footslogging squads, why not take a 30 pts truck with a bigshoota or even rokkit just to sit on those points! And it's mobility will allow capturing whatever's close there! I guess we have no problems with backfield scoring at all! And those trucks are gona be objective secured to boot

Yeh OBJ-Secure trukks is a rather hilarious thought. Having trukks rock up and secure an objective that was currently being held by some elite unit just sounds so orky! I know other races get OS transports, but the orks ability to field so damn many! In fact I think anytime I can get a free OS trukk im just gona put it in my list and have it driving about attempting to pick-up VP's.

An unbound list of 1500 pts;
50x trukk

Haven't you guys heard that grots are the new 5+ cover save?

Get'em up there.

Has anyone actually run the repair Stompa build to any success?

Updated first Post with info I gathered on the Red Waaagh. I'd greatly appreciate someone posting the exact wording of the two formations since posters have delivered biased info before.

 Jidmah wrote:
Updated first Post with info I gathered on the Red Waaagh. I'd greatly appreciate someone posting the exact wording of the two formations since posters have delivered biased info before.

Mogrok's Bossboys

3 Big Meks
1 Warboss
1 Weirdboy (must be upgraded to Mastery Level 2)

Big Mek Mogrok: The controlling player must nominate one Big Mek in this formation to be his Warlord (Mogrok). Mogrok
always has the Kunnin’ But Brutal Warlord Trait.

Very Kunnin’: Before deployment, the controlling player can nominate up to D3 friendly Ork units; these units gain the Acute
Senses and Outflank special rules. The controlling player also adds +1 to any attempts to Seize the Initiative.

Gorkanaut Krushin Krew

3 Gorkanauts

Escalating Rivalry: At the start of each game turn, look up the current game turn number on the following table. All models in
this Formation gain the special rules listed on the table.

1: None
2: Furious Charge
3: Furious Charge, Hatred.
4+: Furious Charge, Hatred, Shred.

There are no additional restrictions, so it seems you can deploy the units from the formations anyway you like.

I have to say, that Gorkanaut formation, though almost infinitely unlikely to ever be seen in play, looks like a lot of fun to use.

For the record, my Lobba batteries have been my backfield scorers now.

Theyre sitting back there anyway, why would i want to leave 40pt grot units or ~120pt boy units to do that job when something that i can deploy next to an objective and literally never move the entire game can do the same job that im bringing anyway?

Yes they have leadership issues, more so than normal grots, but they unlike the grots take a bit of dedication to remove without an assault or short-ranged weapons. Unless something outflanks me, my batteries almost never even get shot at until ive already lost the game anyway cause my frontal army is dead.

why the crap does a *Naut get Furious Charge? Aren't their CC weapons already S10? I mean, I guess if it ever gets destroyed Furious Charge is something, but really? Even without the CC weapon they're S8!

If you shelled out for three nauts you probably didn't do it for competitiveness. In that case, you're happy with your orks nobz inside those walkers being furious for fluff's sake.

 Spartan089 wrote:
Has anyone actually run the repair Stompa build to any success?

I have, it was my first game of 7th ed (with the old ork 'dex). A 2000pt escalation game vs eldar. He didn't have the revanant, but he did have a WK and serpents and all the usual eldar , stompa and 8 boyz were the only things left standing by the end of the game. I lost, obviously, and Stompa had about 6 hull points taken off by the end of the game, but He would have been dead if it weren't for the 4 repair rolls each turn ( I only had one squad of lootas with 3 meks in there, not 2)

 streamdragon wrote:
why the crap does a *Naut get Furious Charge? Aren't their CC weapons already S10? I mean, I guess if it ever gets destroyed Furious Charge is something, but really? Even without the CC weapon they're S8!

Not the first time a rule was given to a unit that cant benefit from it.

Any idea how pissed off i get when i reroll a warlord trait into the +1 strength trait? My damn warlord has S10.....fml

That's nothing. Council of Waaagh! gives you two rolls on the W!G table. Go check how many do absolutely nothing for Thrakka

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
why the crap does a *Naut get Furious Charge? Aren't their CC weapons already S10? I mean, I guess if it ever gets destroyed Furious Charge is something, but really? Even without the CC weapon they're S8!

Not the first time a rule was given to a unit that cant benefit from it.

Any idea how pissed off i get when i reroll a warlord trait into the +1 strength trait? My damn warlord has S10.....fml

How about the Stikk bomb Chucka. That's basically an auto include on all of my Ork Vehicles. And man the Grotsnik is so much more durable with his cybork body. My favorite combo though is my Warboss with Attack Squig and Lukky Stikk wow what a power house. Sometimes I think GW would do better to release a 6 month trial beta version first so the gamers can find all the stupid stuff to fix before release. That way on official release all points costs and rule questions will be perfect.

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
why the crap does a *Naut get Furious Charge? Aren't their CC weapons already S10? I mean, I guess if it ever gets destroyed Furious Charge is something, but really? Even without the CC weapon they're S8!

Not the first time a rule was given to a unit that cant benefit from it.

Any idea how pissed off i get when i reroll a warlord trait into the +1 strength trait? My damn warlord has S10.....fml

Yeah, that was more rhetorical, sorry.

 Sinji wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
why the crap does a *Naut get Furious Charge? Aren't their CC weapons already S10? I mean, I guess if it ever gets destroyed Furious Charge is something, but really? Even without the CC weapon they're S8!

Not the first time a rule was given to a unit that cant benefit from it.

Any idea how pissed off i get when i reroll a warlord trait into the +1 strength trait? My damn warlord has S10.....fml

How about the Stikk bomb Chucka. That's basically an auto include on all of my Ork Vehicles. And man the Grotsnik is so much more durable with his cybork body. My favorite combo though is my Warboss with Attack Squig and Lukky Stikk wow what a power house. Sometimes I think GW would do better to release a 6 month trial beta version first so the gamers can find all the stupid stuff to fix before release. That way on official release all points costs and rule questions will be perfect.

The attack squig can serve a purpose. You can fail the attack squig reroll and not get removed for lucky stick.

For 15 points though?? I guess its useful if your taking multiple warbosses.. but even +1 attack like it used to be would have been a better option.. no?

attack squig is such a joke upgrade now. if it was 5pts it would be fine, but a SINGLE reroll for 15pts? ......wtf

Its basicly the same thing digital weapons now. What's the points coat of digital weapons? Pretty sure its not 15 points. What a rip. They should have brought back big horns for +1 Leadership. That would have been a worth while piece of wargear.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Updated first Post with info I gathered on the Red Waaagh. I'd greatly appreciate someone posting the exact wording of the two formations since posters have delivered biased info before.

Mogrok's Bossboys

3 Big Meks
1 Warboss
1 Weirdboy (must be upgraded to Mastery Level 2)

Big Mek Mogrok: The controlling player must nominate one Big Mek in this formation to be his Warlord (Mogrok). Mogrok
always has the Kunnin’ But Brutal Warlord Trait.

Very Kunnin’: Before deployment, the controlling player can nominate up to D3 friendly Ork units; these units gain the Acute
Senses and Outflank special rules. The controlling player also adds +1 to any attempts to Seize the Initiative.

There are no additional restrictions, so it seems you can deploy the units from the formations anyway you like.

About Mogrok formation, the Very Kunnin rule (outflank) is limited to non-vehicule units, or any Ork units? ( outflanking Gorkanaut, anyone?)

I assume that this is the exact wording, so no limits.

The formation is very awesome, basically giving you five additional HQ slots. The only downside is not having a Waaagh.

 Jidmah wrote:
I assume that this is the exact wording, so no limits.

It is.

 Jidmah wrote:
The formation is very awesome, basically giving you five additional HQ slots. The only downside is not having a Waaagh.

Well, it requires you to take a warboss but denies you the best uses for him by not letting him be the warlord and it restricts your warlord traits (I'd rather have two re-rollable strategic traits using a CAD and Da Finkin Kap).

Still probably going to use it quite a bit though.

its also takes up one detachment slot, might not be an issue for lots of builds, but its a limiting factor.

all the ork formations are great and fill some sort of niche without being over the top, really well done and worth it to play with and have fun with lots of them.

Any way you can update the first post with the rules for Grukk Face-rippa?

 easysauce wrote:
all the ork formations are great and fill some sort of niche without being over the top, really well done and worth it to play with and have fun with lots of them.

I am really very strongly tempted to pick up the Ghazzie supplement and run the 15 Meganobz formation. I love the look of the models, and it seems like a fairly hilarious way to collect the tears of my opponents. Ork Boyz just don't do it for me in melee anymore, so three small and viciously dangerous mobz of Megas seem like a better bet instead. Perhaps combined with a Stompa to overload my opponent's ability to judge threats.