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 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


At least we can thank God they got rid of whoever was responsible for those plastic Catachans

Kid Kyoto for president!

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Yeah, yeah, I was being just a bit faciious. I'm sure they're still plenty of great sculpters there, but I've been a on a big 2nd edition IG and Necromunda kick lately. Dang those models just ooze character.

At least we can thank God they got rid of whoever was responsible for those plastic Catachans

Well, Jes Goodwin sculpted the Escher gang for Necromunda, and did at least concept art for most of the other gangs....so the minis at least were inspired by him.

I don't like the Catachans but I am sure they were sculpted to match a particular aesthetic. 40K is about gigantism and excess.

There's actually some really good/great artwork for the Catachans by artists like Gibbons, Kopinski, etc. Some of the metals are also good figures, while others are just bad. The plastics, however, are awful. (Though the heavy and command boxes that came later are far less awful). We all have off-days at work. The Perrys had an off-range.

The Perrys are certainly talented sculptors, but not the best that GW has had. They are (were) the solid, dependable workhorses of the studio. Perfect for the less flashy lines like Humans and Dwarfs.

Hardly surprising as part of gws clearing house, plus lord of the rings can only have a couple of years left and all the moulds are probably finished for it

More focus on ther historical ranges, i like that alot, theyre plastic's are just top notch some of the best in the industry

That leaves J. Goodwin as one of the last talented GW sculptors.

And concerning the perry twins, They had an dual job working for both Wargames Foundy and Games Workshop ( Who in a long thime ago where more or less the same )
They quit Foundy to make there own ( historical ) ranges and stayed with GW for the more realistic ranges.
And since any sense of "normal"models has gone overboard with GW ( it shows with the current batch of monstrosities ( pun intended ) that are released upon us) I thinks they deceided to go for a 100% for there own ranges.

My personal message for the the perry's:
Good for you, and good luck with the hostorical ranges.

There is only one question left:

How long will Jess Goodwin last......

Youve all missed the most important point of all; CAD design is cheaper and more profitable. Personal preference about which is better is irrelevant when you need to do mas production runs like GW does.
The new CAD designed molds not only get made faster, easier, arguably better.... they last longer too (so more potential profit).

.... pretty much everything GW has done in recent years is about the profit lines more than anything romantic about their medium/universe.

 Soulhunter wrote:

There is only one question left:

How long will Jess Goodwin last......

Goodwin will be there until the stars burn out, assuming GW is still around. He's firmly a company stooge, and I doubt very much he would be able to survive without the umbilicus.

That's surprising, normally people with an artistic bent aren't of that nature from my experience.

Can I ask how you know such a thing Weeble?

Kid_Kyoto wrote:At least we can thank God they got rid of whoever was responsible for those plastic Catachans

It's just too bad that the person who sculpted the awesome previous metal Catachans isn't around anymore.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


At least we can thank God they got rid of whoever was responsible for those plastic Catachans

The plastic Catachan HWTs and command squad were sculpted by the twins [I think]. They look a lot better than the regular Catachan troops.

decker_cky wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:At least we can thank God they got rid of whoever was responsible for those plastic Catachans

It's just too bad that the person who sculpted the awesome previous metal Catachans isn't around anymore.

I know, those metal Catachans are awesome, that's who should've done the plastics!

weeble1000 wrote:

 Soulhunter wrote:

There is only one question left:

How long will Jess Goodwin last......

Goodwin will be there until the stars burn out, assuming GW is still around. He's firmly a company stooge, and I doubt very much he would be able to survive without the umbilicus.

I assume you have a good reason for having such a low opinion of the guy. Care to enlighten us?

Does anyone have any solid information that the twins did the catachan plastics or are we just speculating? I found a reference on Warseer, but noting corroborating.

As for the models themselves, sure they are pretty goofy by today's standards, but they were the first IG Plastic troopers in over a decade and IIRC, they were very well received. They had lots of options, separate weapons (something that mostly went away unfortunately) and lots of character.

Remember also that this was the first wave of the new era of plastic multipart models for 40k (Early 3rd edition) and they were released in 1999. These are 14 year old models and the geneisis of what GW infantry have become, and it's not really fair to compare them to current plastics or even the metal figs of the same period.

 Azazelx wrote:

Azazelx wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

There are lots that are heroically proportioned, though - even if they're not the larger height-scale that GW is currently using.

Some companies like Warlord make their historicals with quasi-heroic proportions, but I do not think anyone makes fully heroic historicals.

While I thought of Warlord as well, there's also Black Tree Designs/Harlequin, Renegade Miniatures, and no doubt others that are just as heroic as any GW model. Even if they're not as tall.

For anyone looking for realistically proportioned miniatures, I can heartily recommend Fife and Drum Miniatures. They are beautiful sculpts, the guy who runs it is really nice, and they are affordably priced (only $2 per figure)
http://fifedrumminis.blogspot.com/

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:

 Soulhunter wrote:

There is only one question left:

How long will Jess Goodwin last......

Goodwin will be there until the stars burn out, assuming GW is still around. He's firmly a company stooge, and I doubt very much he would be able to survive without the umbilicus.

I assume you have a good reason for having such a low opinion of the guy. Care to enlighten us?

I assume it's in relation to Goodwin's testimony during the Chapterhouse case.

No, I've spoken with Weeble about this before, and it's based on personal experience.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

decker_cky wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:At least we can thank God they got rid of whoever was responsible for those plastic Catachans

It's just too bad that the person who sculpted the awesome previous metal Catachans isn't around anymore.

I know, those metal Catachans are awesome, that's who should've done the plastics!

I do believe Alan and Mike sculpted both metal and plastic Catachans

 Eilif wrote:
Does anyone have any solid information that the twins did the catachan plastics or are we just speculating? I found a reference on Warseer, but noting corroborating.

As for the models themselves, sure they are pretty goofy by today's standards, but they were the first IG Plastic troopers in over a decade and IIRC, they were very well received. They had lots of options, separate weapons (something that mostly went away unfortunately) and lots of character.

Remember also that this was the first wave of the new era of plastic multipart models for 40k (Early 3rd edition) and they were released in 1999. These are 14 year old models and the geneisis of what GW infantry have become, and it's not really fair to compare them to current plastics or even the metal figs of the same period.

The boxes the models come in say who scultped them. The box for Catachan infantry squads says they were designed by the Perry twins, Jes Goodwin, and one other sculptor who's also really well regarded but I can't place at the moment. I chalk that kit up to too many cooks in the kitchen and sculptors working with relatively new technology. Don't forget the Eldar Guardians, Ork Boyz, and Space Marine tactical squad came out around the same time, and they're all leaps and bounds better kits that still look good on the table today. Similarly, Dark Eldar Warriors came out at the same time and they're utterly abominable, but that's Gary Morley for you.

 sing your life wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

PapaSoul wrote:
That new Ork Painboy is a CaD model. And that thing is hideous

Every plastic GW model released in the last 10 years is a CAD model.

I thought GW only started using CAD in about 2007.

It's a fairly interesting history. GW was using a plastics company via contract work, in the late 80's and early 90's. Then they bought out that company, integrated their equipment and staff, and make the owner the head of their plastics engineering division. Then when GW started switching to CAD only (instead of traditional 3-up), they forced their plastics guy into early retirement. A month after he left GW, he started Renedra. Whose first kit was a Perry kit, and who also do plastics for companies such as Mantic, Fireforge, Warlord, etc...

 judgedoug wrote:
who also do plastics for companies such as Mantic, Fireforge, Warlord, etc...

But not Privateer Press

Eilif wrote:Does anyone have any solid information that the twins did the catachan plastics or are we just speculating? I found a reference on Warseer, but noting corroborating.

As for the models themselves, sure they are pretty goofy by today's standards, but they were the first IG Plastic troopers in over a decade and IIRC, they were very well received. They had lots of options, separate weapons (something that mostly went away unfortunately) and lots of character.

Remember also that this was the first wave of the new era of plastic multipart models for 40k (Early 3rd edition) and they were released in 1999. These are 14 year old models and the geneisis of what GW infantry have become, and it's not really fair to compare them to current plastics or even the metal figs of the same period.

Here's the list of all the 40k releases, including who sculpted what:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?297915-Games-Workshop-40K-Release-Timeline-(Mk-II)

The Catachans were a popular line, but I don't think they were particularly good compared to other plastics from the era (particularly the Nelson orks who were released a few years earlier). They made armies cheaper though, and that was an important consideration. Compared to any of the metal lines, they were a huge downgrade. Catachans were released in plastic because their metals were very popular, so I think they integrated into existing armies very well too, which was important as 3rd edition required more actual infantry in a guard army than was needed before.

sing your life wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

decker_cky wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:At least we can thank God they got rid of whoever was responsible for those plastic Catachans

It's just too bad that the person who sculpted the awesome previous metal Catachans isn't around anymore.

I know, those metal Catachans are awesome, that's who should've done the plastics!

I do believe Alan and Mike sculpted both metal and plastic Catachans

 azreal13 wrote:
No, I've spoken with Weeble about this before, and it's based on personal experience.

Of Goodwin himself, or just in the more generalised case of loathing anyone who can stay in the same building as Alan Merrett?

In any case, and for whatever reason, I think you'd need a crowbar to get Jes Goodwin away from designing Eldar.

I'm looking forward to seeing the origin of this Jes Goodwin hate...

Who scultped the Catachan Command Squad? If it was one of the Perrys surely that makes up for the earlier crime of the plastic Catachans?

 Medium of Death wrote:
Who scultped the Catachan Command Squad? If it was one of the Perrys surely that makes up for the earlier crime of the plastic Catachans?

It was the Perrys and Matt Holland.

 sing your life wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

decker_cky wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:At least we can thank God they got rid of whoever was responsible for those plastic Catachans

It's just too bad that the person who sculpted the awesome previous metal Catachans isn't around anymore.

I know, those metal Catachans are awesome, that's who should've done the plastics!

I do believe Alan and Mike sculpted both metal and plastic Catachans

Welcome to the party


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother SRM wrote:

 Eilif wrote:
Does anyone have any solid information that the twins did the catachan plastics or are we just speculating? I found a reference on Warseer, but noting corroborating.

As for the models themselves, sure they are pretty goofy by today's standards, but they were the first IG Plastic troopers in over a decade and IIRC, they were very well received. They had lots of options, separate weapons (something that mostly went away unfortunately) and lots of character.

Remember also that this was the first wave of the new era of plastic multipart models for 40k (Early 3rd edition) and they were released in 1999. These are 14 year old models and the geneisis of what GW infantry have become, and it's not really fair to compare them to current plastics or even the metal figs of the same period.

The boxes the models come in say who scultped them. The box for Catachan infantry squads says they were designed by the Perry twins, Jes Goodwin, and one other sculptor who's also really well regarded but I can't place at the moment. I chalk that kit up to too many cooks in the kitchen and sculptors working with relatively new technology. Don't forget the Eldar Guardians, Ork Boyz, and Space Marine tactical squad came out around the same time, and they're all leaps and bounds better kits that still look good on the table today. Similarly, Dark Eldar Warriors came out at the same time and they're utterly abominable, but that's Gary Morley for you.

(putting on my serious discussion hat for a moment)

Technically they are fine kits, the seperate weapons, the diversity of bodies and weapons, even most of the poses are fine. The running legs are a bit derpy but I found by tilting the model and pinning it they can look credible.

The problem was first off the decision to make a Whole Army of Rambo. Even if they were realistic Vietnam era troops with helmets, slouch hats and sleeves they'd be 10 times better. If they'd been an update of the RT grey guys or plastic Cadians (modeled on the metal ones) they would have stood the test of time a lot better.

Second was GW's stingy attitude on special and heavy weapons, only offering one special weapon and no heavies in the set. Even the then contemporary Marines got a flamer and ML. The Empire troops at the time (another set that stands up well today) got swords, sheilds and halbreds. So clearly GW could have given more value for the money but chose not to.

Third was the lack of 40k ness to them. No bionics, no chainsword, no power fist or power weapon. No Imperial insignias other than an eagle on the canteen. They really were just Rambo with lasguns.

They're not the worst plastics GW ever made (that honor goes to the plastic Goliaths) but they're really close. And largely it's due to design choices not sculpting.

And if you'd like to know more, I'll just leave this here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Secret_Origin_of_the_Plastic_Catachans

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

They're not the worst plastics GW ever made (that honor goes to the plastic Goliaths) but they're really close. And largely it's due to design choices not sculpting.

I'd argue that the RT Ork box set is worse, with the Terminators from the first edition Space Hulk coming in second. I've painted both of those and the Catachans

I suspect the Perry's were ramrodded into doing the Catachans they way they did, can't place too much blame on them.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:


And if you'd like to know more, I'll just leave this here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Secret_Origin_of_the_Plastic_Catachans

Haha, very good.. hadn't read that one before!

weeble1000 wrote:

 Soulhunter wrote:

There is only one question left:

How long will Jess Goodwin last......

Goodwin will be there until the stars burn out, assuming GW is still around. He's firmly a company stooge, and I doubt very much he would be able to survive without the umbilicus.

Stooge? That sounds a bit accusatory. As far as I know, he's been promoted to head of plastics or some such, and I imagine he's pretty much up there with Blanche (well, just under) in terms of "company ranking". Besides, his concept art still feeds a huge amount of the designs that get produced.