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So we had a 7th ed tournament at my FLGS this saturday. To see what the game was really like now, they put zero restrictions in. Battleforged, unbound, allies, dataslates, anything 7th legal (except forgeworld). I had just finished up my stompa model, and since I thought I might not ever get a chance to use it due to the stigma of lords of war in my area, I decided to enter. I went with a stompa, big mek with kff, 5 burnas with 3 meks, and grot riggers. The rest of my army was ghazkull, 4 meganobs all in a battlewagon with deff rollas. 20 slugga choppa boyz with nob, bosspole, and pk in a battlewagon with deffrolla. 12 shoota boyz with nob, pk, bosspole in a trukk, and 9 lootas for a 2k tourney. This was still using the old dex since the new one only came out that day.

So I arrive at 10, waiting to start at 10:30. A total of 6 people are here for it (normal tourneys with restrictions average 12 to 18ish. I was curious, and since all our lists had to be turned in the wednesday before and nobody could last minute change them, people were discussing their armies. What I found people had brought I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy.

There was an army with a lord of skulls, malekhor or whatever the dataslate demon princes name is, fatewaver, and another flying demon prince, all basically flying buffbots with one goal, give the lord of skulls invisibility. Oh and a 3 base unit of nurglings. Next was a baneblade alternative, the one with the str 10 super huge cannon, and demolisher. He was joined by....malekhor, a citan shard, and a flying demon prince. The next army was a citan shard....joined by a citan shard. The next army was a citan shard....joined by a citan shard. No that was not an accident. 2 guys rode together to the tournament to make a point aparently. And that point was douchey armies are no fun (and boy were they right) The last army was more like mine, a proper space wolf army, with an imperial knight to try it out. He wasent expecting this either.

Anyway reminding myself I am here to have fun with my new stompa I paid my fee and we started playing. I was faced up against the lord of skulls. Now the guy is a regular, and by no means a douche. BUT he will not settle for just a basic army. All of his armies are geared for maximum advantage every time. 2+ screamerstar lists. Grey knights with demon allies for 25 summoning dice a turn. (back when they were feared) dark angels ravenwing with more dakka than 10000 points of orks could put out. Not sure why he finds that kind of list fun. There is no challenge in it and it dosent improve your skills to win crushing victories all the time. But I digress.

So the game starts out with the stompa and the lord running straight at each other Thinking the orks were finally gonna have the scrap of their lives I committed ghaz and the nobz into it. Well as I found out, the lord of skulls counts as a demon, and thus invisibility works wonders on him. You can imagine even with 4 attacks from the stompa, 7 from ghaz, and 16 from the nobz, I struck home about 5 times total. 2 of which did anything, and one of which was ignored by 5+ invun. I managed aproximatley zero kills, and was tabled soon after, with the flyers basically just buffing with iron arm on themselves and invis. And my 2 deny dice I got a turn did didly. To my left, the 2 citan crushed the other 2 citan foolish enough to go second. The other match was much better, with the knight dying to the citan, only to explode and take the citans last wound with him, making HIM explode and doling about half the damage to the baneblade. It was a tough fight but I think basically the wolf player had a rhino left and some bloodclaws and longfangs wayyy on the other side about 50 inches away. Broke for lunch. Came back for round 2.

Now it was my turn to fight da baneblade. Well do to being hugenourmous, I never got to move more than 6 inches a turn, while the baneblade spent the game backing up 6 inches a turn. Him and the citan pretty much shot it to death by turn 3. I made all of 2 hull repairs. BUT my supa gattla NEVER ran out of boolits. I killed melchior and the other DP with the lootas. Unfortunatley for him, it was objective based, and I beat him soundly by playing the mission. He seemed upset since he had a baneblade with 1 HP missing, and an untouched citan at the end, and I had ghaz (who had got blown out of his battlewagon turn one by hugeblast the deadly from the baneblade scattering off the stompa onto him, and 6 whole boyz left ( the new mob rule would have had them all dead by now). Both other games, the citan tabled their opponents by turn 2. The lord of skulls killed turn one by combined fire before the demons could even cast anything, then slowly picked off by 6d6 str 8 shots from each of them.

Game 3 was played, and I found myself up against 2 citan. Well thru sheer luck, I managed to with my stompa and lootas get his warlord down about 3 hp out of 6. At which point Im pretty sure he went over to ask the judge to check my dice complaining of cheating, the judge waved him off. Turn 1 citan. Goodbye stompa. 12 hull points, and 5+ cover mean jack when you take 12d6 str 8 hits, and 4 blast templates, 2 of which were D, one of which did 7 hull points by itself. Ghaz was behind it and next turn unloaded to charge his warlord. Here is where I screwed up big time. I forgot to waagh, and thus ghaz dident have his 2+ invun. Also his warlord trait gave him feel no pain, which I ALSO forgot to use. Anyway after the citan attacked a challenged ghaz, managing to do 3 wounds, I fired back....bringing him to a heartbreaking 1 hp left after making 6 feel no pain rolls that round. The stomp afterwards left 3 meganobz and ghaz and a buddy died. Next turn the other citan shot ghaz battlewagon dead, and put some hurt on the trukk with the shootaboyz, who were trying to sneak around the other side to his objective, of which we each had one. So they were now walking, and had 24 inches or so to get there. Not good. The nobz do 2 wounds, which he saves, and they all die due to no invun. Well I figure this is my last chance, the lootas open up on the lord and only manage 18 shots, 6 of which hit, and one wound due to toughness 9. He saves easily. Next turn everything dies but 4 shoota boyz hiding behind terrain they cant see around. Turn after that they died due to being insignificant specs of dust to citan.

Tourney ends. Citan take home 40 bucks in store credit. I win best painted, someone else wins most fun opponent (ironically the other citan player who I did not even get to have 2 words with) Everyone pretty much disperses.

My innitial thoughts. Lords of war. Not as bad as I thought they would be...assuming one that is. Though combos like unresistable invis on a lord of skulls every turn, with failures being overturned by fateweaver, are probably some of the most broken junk ever. Even my auto hit deff rollas only managed 2 HP (and we dont even have THAT in the new codex). But I will absolutley never play a tournament, or "for fun" game with unbound rules again ever. Ever. I dont care how nice the person is, or how fluffy their list. It is no fun, makes no sense, and is broken as crap. Though the lord of skulls list with nurglings was sadly battleforged, so even that cannot escape super cheeze.

I was pretty suprised how upset people with just plain dumb lists can get. Complaining loudly that something is either BS or plain cheating because ONE of your models ALMOST died ALL TOURNAMENT, is just as petty as can be.

Also I hope to god I never do a tournament again where I get in 3 games, and manage to kill all of 2 models TOTAL. That is just a shot to the pride-junk there.

This is why my gaming group plays 6th ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How many points was it btw?

 Brother Payne wrote:
This is why my gaming group plays 6th ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
How many points was it btw?

2k sir

Yeah stuff that haha

Already posted here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/602836.page

Boy. That sure sounds...fun. Yeah....fun.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Boy. That sure sounds...fun. Yeah....fun.

They have agreed to remove unbound from the options in future tournaments. And added an addendum that lords of war cannot make up more than half your points regardless.

They continue to ban forgeworld. I know some go crazy for this, but out of 20 people from the last tournament not one objected to that stipulation.

Good on you for participating, if for no other reason than to illustrate the ridiculous nature of it given the horrible balancing by GW. Not to mention the hilarious fact that they considered that stuff fine but forgeworld not.

Don't be too hard on the guy that enjoys making optimised lists - it's fun making powerful armies. Just because the game system is broken doesn't mean the guy shouldn't try to win using game mechanics. Power gaming isn't bad, being a douche is bad.

There was a local tournament today that allowed LoW. Usually 12-14 is an average showing, they had 4. Abysmal.

I didn't go, and a lot of others followed a similar line of thinking.

The community needs to keep speaking up about not wanting LoWs in the majority of 40k Tournaments. Whether it's GW legal or not, it appears the majority of players don't want to see Super Heavies and Gargantuan Creatures in tournaments.


And man, dual Transcendent C'Tans. Get Apocalypse out of my 40k.....

It's a shame for the New Orks because I feel the Stompah is definitely on the more reasonable end of the LoW category. In a 2k game even a take all comers list would probably have enough to take a stompa down. Sad that the power disparity has been so fethed up that certain models in the same FoC slot can be outlawed by association.

Then again, it's my opinion that the stompa is fairly balanced. But that's because I've fought Imperial Knight Spam.

 Yonan wrote:
Good on you for participating, if for no other reason than to illustrate the ridiculous nature of it given the horrible balancing by GW. Not to mention the hilarious fact that they considered that stuff fine but forgeworld not.

What wasn't mentioned is that this shop tends to have people that just love to complain about how powerful Forge World stuff is compared to GW proper stuff is, without realizing in some cases that the items they're complaining about?

The person they played against either flat-out cheated or were playing outdated rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gpfunk wrote:
It's a shame for the New Orks because I feel the Stompah is definitely on the more reasonable end of the LoW category. In a 2k game even a take all comers list would probably have enough to take a stompa down. Sad that the power disparity has been so fethed up that certain models in the same FoC slot can be outlawed by association.

Then again, it's my opinion that the stompa is fairly balanced. But that's because I've fought Imperial Knight Spam.

As a fun thing to consider, under the Waagh! Ghazghkull supplement, you can potentially have a Deep Striking Stompa.

 Orock wrote:
Battleforged, unbound, allies, dataslates, anything 7th legal (except forgeworld).

*falls off chair laughing*

Yep. Any combination of any Codex is fine... but no Forge World because...? FW is unbalanced? Oh my God...

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Yonan wrote:
Good on you for participating, if for no other reason than to illustrate the ridiculous nature of it given the horrible balancing by GW. Not to mention the hilarious fact that they considered that stuff fine but forgeworld not.

What wasn't mentioned is that this shop tends to have people that just love to complain about how powerful Forge World stuff is compared to GW proper stuff is, without realizing in some cases that the items they're complaining about?

The person they played against either flat-out cheated or were playing outdated rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gpfunk wrote:
It's a shame for the New Orks because I feel the Stompah is definitely on the more reasonable end of the LoW category. In a 2k game even a take all comers list would probably have enough to take a stompa down. Sad that the power disparity has been so fethed up that certain models in the same FoC slot can be outlawed by association.

Then again, it's my opinion that the stompa is fairly balanced. But that's because I've fought Imperial Knight Spam.

As a fun thing to consider, under the Waagh! Ghazghkull supplement, you can potentially have a Deep Striking Stompa.

Wait, who cheated, and how? Id like to know

I'm assuming this was a tournament at Atomic Empire, right?

Around the start of June there was a discussion about the tournament rules. Something that got brought up in the course of discussion about Forge World v. Escalation/blahblahblah was someone's experience against the Mek Stompa from IA8.

It turned out the person was mixing and matching rules...yet the people who should have caught him on that did not, and rather than realize that "Oh maybe we should ask for people to have their books present if they want to run Forge World", they just jumped on the idea of "No Forge World!".

 Orock wrote:
So we had a 7th ed tournament at my FLGS this saturday. To see what the game was really like now, they put zero restrictions in. Battleforged, unbound, allies, dataslates, anything 7th legal (except forgeworld). I had just finished up my stompa model, and since I thought I might not ever get a chance to use it due to the stigma of lords of war in my area, I decided to enter. I went with a stompa, big mek with kff, 5 burnas with 3 meks, and grot riggers. The rest of my army was ghazkull, 4 meganobs all in a battlewagon with deff rollas. 20 slugga choppa boyz with nob, bosspole, and pk in a battlewagon with deffrolla. 12 shoota boyz with nob, pk, bosspole in a trukk, and 9 lootas for a 2k tourney. This was still using the old dex since the new one only came out that day.

So I arrive at 10, waiting to start at 10:30. A total of 6 people are here for it (normal tourneys with restrictions average 12 to 18ish. I was curious, and since all our lists had to be turned in the wednesday before and nobody could last minute change them, people were discussing their armies. What I found people had brought I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy.

There was an army with a lord of skulls, malekhor or whatever the dataslate demon princes name is, fatewaver, and another flying demon prince, all basically flying buffbots with one goal, give the lord of skulls invisibility. Oh and a 3 base unit of nurglings. Next was a baneblade alternative, the one with the str 10 super huge cannon, and demolisher. He was joined by....malekhor, a citan shard, and a flying demon prince. The next army was a citan shard....joined by a citan shard. The next army was a citan shard....joined by a citan shard. No that was not an accident. 2 guys rode together to the tournament to make a point aparently. And that point was douchey armies are no fun (and boy were they right) The last army was more like mine, a proper space wolf army, with an imperial knight to try it out. He wasent expecting this either.

Anyway reminding myself I am here to have fun with my new stompa I paid my fee and we started playing. I was faced up against the lord of skulls. Now the guy is a regular, and by no means a douche. BUT he will not settle for just a basic army. All of his armies are geared for maximum advantage every time. 2+ screamerstar lists. Grey knights with demon allies for 25 summoning dice a turn. (back when they were feared) dark angels ravenwing with more dakka than 10000 points of orks could put out. Not sure why he finds that kind of list fun. There is no challenge in it and it dosent improve your skills to win crushing victories all the time. But I digress.

So the game starts out with the stompa and the lord running straight at each other Thinking the orks were finally gonna have the scrap of their lives I committed ghaz and the nobz into it. Well as I found out, the lord of skulls counts as a demon, and thus invisibility works wonders on him. You can imagine even with 4 attacks from the stompa, 7 from ghaz, and 16 from the nobz, I struck home about 5 times total. 2 of which did anything, and one of which was ignored by 5+ invun. I managed aproximatley zero kills, and was tabled soon after, with the flyers basically just buffing with iron arm on themselves and invis. And my 2 deny dice I got a turn did didly. To my left, the 2 citan crushed the other 2 citan foolish enough to go second. The other match was much better, with the knight dying to the citan, only to explode and take the citans last wound with him, making HIM explode and doling about half the damage to the baneblade. It was a tough fight but I think basically the wolf player had a rhino left and some bloodclaws and longfangs wayyy on the other side about 50 inches away. Broke for lunch. Came back for round 2.

Now it was my turn to fight da baneblade. Well do to being hugenourmous, I never got to move more than 6 inches a turn, while the baneblade spent the game backing up 6 inches a turn. Him and the citan pretty much shot it to death by turn 3. I made all of 2 hull repairs. BUT my supa gattla NEVER ran out of boolits. I killed melchior and the other DP with the lootas. Unfortunatley for him, it was objective based, and I beat him soundly by playing the mission. He seemed upset since he had a baneblade with 1 HP missing, and an untouched citan at the end, and I had ghaz (who had got blown out of his battlewagon turn one by hugeblast the deadly from the baneblade scattering off the stompa onto him, and 6 whole boyz left ( the new mob rule would have had them all dead by now). Both other games, the citan tabled their opponents by turn 2. The lord of skulls killed turn one by combined fire before the demons could even cast anything, then slowly picked off by 6d6 str 8 shots from each of them.

Game 3 was played, and I found myself up against 2 citan. Well thru sheer luck, I managed to with my stompa and lootas get his warlord down about 3 hp out of 6. At which point Im pretty sure he went over to ask the judge to check my dice complaining of cheating, the judge waved him off. Turn 1 citan. Goodbye stompa. 12 hull points, and 5+ cover mean jack when you take 12d6 str 8 hits, and 4 blast templates, 2 of which were D, one of which did 7 hull points by itself. Ghaz was behind it and next turn unloaded to charge his warlord. Here is where I screwed up big time. I forgot to waagh, and thus ghaz dident have his 2+ invun. Also his warlord trait gave him feel no pain, which I ALSO forgot to use. Anyway after the citan attacked a challenged ghaz, managing to do 3 wounds, I fired back....bringing him to a heartbreaking 1 hp left after making 6 feel no pain rolls that round. The stomp afterwards left 3 meganobz and ghaz and a buddy died. Next turn the other citan shot ghaz battlewagon dead, and put some hurt on the trukk with the shootaboyz, who were trying to sneak around the other side to his objective, of which we each had one. So they were now walking, and had 24 inches or so to get there. Not good. The nobz do 2 wounds, which he saves, and they all die due to no invun. Well I figure this is my last chance, the lootas open up on the lord and only manage 18 shots, 6 of which hit, and one wound due to toughness 9. He saves easily. Next turn everything dies but 4 shoota boyz hiding behind terrain they cant see around. Turn after that they died due to being insignificant specs of dust to citan.

Tourney ends. Citan take home 40 bucks in store credit. I win best painted, someone else wins most fun opponent (ironically the other citan player who I did not even get to have 2 words with) Everyone pretty much disperses.

My innitial thoughts. Lords of war. Not as bad as I thought they would be...assuming one that is. Though combos like unresistable invis on a lord of skulls every turn, with failures being overturned by fateweaver, are probably some of the most broken junk ever. Even my auto hit deff rollas only managed 2 HP (and we dont even have THAT in the new codex). But I will absolutley never play a tournament, or "for fun" game with unbound rules again ever. Ever. I dont care how nice the person is, or how fluffy their list. It is no fun, makes no sense, and is broken as crap. Though the lord of skulls list with nurglings was sadly battleforged, so even that cannot escape super cheeze.

I was pretty suprised how upset people with just plain dumb lists can get. Complaining loudly that something is either BS or plain cheating because ONE of your models ALMOST died ALL TOURNAMENT, is just as petty as can be.

Also I hope to god I never do a tournament again where I get in 3 games, and manage to kill all of 2 models TOTAL. That is just a shot to the pride-junk there.

Hey Orock, what state are you in?

Because that sounded a heck of a lot like my local FLGS. right down to the two guys with 2 Ctan each, and the Belakor with everything tendency..

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm assuming this was a tournament at Atomic Empire, right?

Nope. There was actually pretty good turnout for that, and I corrected the Stompa guy about the void shield thing (and hopefully he didn't try to do it against his next opponent). Of course even without the extra void shields the repair Stompa is obnoxious and really needs to be subject to the popular "little things don't work on big things" house rule.

Ah well then I'm wrong about that bit then.

As it stands though Forge World being disallowed is ridiculous. If people are so worried about the rules, require people to bring their books.

If you feel that something is awry, ask to see the book.

so i might be a bit of a loner with this.. but, bunch of wimps.

the community should keep complaining about LOW? they made GHAZ a LOW.... so what you gonna ban what was a HQ option? time to move past the no LOW, because every codex has them in as standard now.

also banning FW? asinine, considering all the options GW gives you and that its in the rulebook as legal as well.. banning it is just stupid.

i think its time for people to accept that 7th might just be the most open edition, sure dont play unbound. but its time to realise that the new codex's are written in such a way that ALL the options are legal and allowed.

Locking, as there is a dupe thread in the tournament forum.