Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I doupt they have that much ammo, and don't like half those guys get killed or maimed by the ultra marines that attack them. So its more like 20 marines probably made it and most of them would be too busy eating people to fuction as a unit, so really its just 1st claw killing 10 million people. The only thing that would make any sense is if they had armed crew that helped out, but they seem to only arm the crew members who have duties on the ship.

I haven't read that book in a while, but if I remember well, they were 10 000 persons on Tsugulsa. From the description that was made, most of them got killed with close combat weapons or driven in the wasteland to die over the course of a few weeks of occupation. At that point in the story, first Claw wasn't the only unit operationnal. The Bleeding Eye was still kicking so were several other squads. Plus, they don't need to operate in squadron to massacre unarmed civilians who live in the ruins of their forteress. Imagine 40 monsters that want to kill everything, are basically invinsible, never rest and who's sense you can't evade. They will murder a population very quickly. Technically, population were rounded up in bunker at the beginning of the occupation with the help of the planet leader. That makes extermination easier.

If 40 monsters showed up in Atlanta me and others with guns would overwhelm them with superior numbers. Its like infantry men overrunning armored formations, your looking at a massacre but it can be done.

40 monsters who shrug off your bullets like rain and even when they do get hit, clot over so quickly you don't even get to see the blood fall? Good luck with that.

^ That. Plus, I do not know if your Atlanta guys have power weapons, but if you don't, you may find trying to overrun them and bring them down in melee is... Ineffective.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:
If 40 monsters showed up in Atlanta me and others with guns would overwhelm them with superior numbers. Its like infantry men overrunning armored formations, your looking at a massacre but it can be done.

There are times when mundane firepower in possession of civilians is laughably inefficient. When it comes to Space Marines in the fluff, lasguns and autoguns just aren't going to cut it. They will actually save the ammo to walk over to you from across the battlefield, rip your arm off of your body, and beat you to death with in front of all your friends.

The efficiency of more advanced weaponry can be debated, but I think it is pretty clear that using such 'tiny-arms' fire as modern day assault rifles will yield negligible results.

if 40 monsters showed up in Atlanta me and others with guns would overwhelm them with superior numbers. Its like infantry men overrunning armored formations, your looking at a massacre but it can be done.

I would say that you would show up. They would charge with their jet packs or simply on foot (Space Marine probably run really fast and don't get tired easily). You would waste your shots on their armor. Then, 0panic after three guys or girls got torn apart in one second, then you and your makeshift army would scatter in all directions trampling those who are to slow. The Space Marine would then hunt you down with infinite glee. Even trained soldiers would flee in front of such a thing. People in the 40k univers are crazy and those who flee get shot. That's why they can overwhelm a stronger force. Historically speeking, the mass assault tactica generally result in a terrible massacre with very few gains. It takes great tactical acumen and great coordination between individuals to make number work for you. A mob is not a combat unit, its a danger to itself.

I don't think it's ten million I think it's ten thousand as epronovost pointed out.

So if 50 land then they only need to kill 200 people each to achieve that kind of number.

I think yourself and the rest of your brave friends would end up skinned and displayed from a very prominent building in Atlanta. Not to dampen your spirits or anything...

epronovost wrote:
if 40 monsters showed up in Atlanta me and others with guns would overwhelm them with superior numbers. Its like infantry men overrunning armored formations, your looking at a massacre but it can be done.

I would say that you would show up. They would charge with their jet packs or simply on foot (Space Marine probably run really fast and don't get tired easily). You would waste your shots on their armor. Then, 0panic after three guys or girls got torn apart in one second, then you and your makeshift army would scatter in all directions trampling those who are to slow. The Space Marine would then hunt you down with infinite glee. Even trained soldiers would flee in front of such a thing. People in the 40k univers are crazy and those who flee get shot. That's why they can overwhelm a stronger force. Historically speeking, the mass assault tactica generally result in a terrible massacre with very few gains. It takes great tactical acumen and great coordination between individuals to make number work for you. A mob is not a combat unit, its a danger to itself.

This.
Night lords operate using terror as their weapon. It would never be a full frontal assault unless there was no other way, or they had run out of time. They would kill a few weaklings and let their screams of pain terrorize the rest of the mob. Throw a headless body down into the center of the masses and watch hysteria ensue. Precise shots from the shadows to kill the leaders. Sowing panic amongst the throngs of untrained minions would take no time at all and the night lords would revel in the terror that they caused. They are artists of fear. ONE night lord could probably orchestrate the death of 10,000 over his life span. the rednecks in atlanta would be easy prey.

 sennacherib wrote:

epronovost wrote:
if 40 monsters showed up in Atlanta me and others with guns would overwhelm them with superior numbers. Its like infantry men overrunning armored formations, your looking at a massacre but it can be done.

I would say that you would show up. They would charge with their jet packs or simply on foot (Space Marine probably run really fast and don't get tired easily). You would waste your shots on their armor. Then, 0panic after three guys or girls got torn apart in one second, then you and your makeshift army would scatter in all directions trampling those who are to slow. The Space Marine would then hunt you down with infinite glee. Even trained soldiers would flee in front of such a thing. People in the 40k univers are crazy and those who flee get shot. That's why they can overwhelm a stronger force. Historically speeking, the mass assault tactica generally result in a terrible massacre with very few gains. It takes great tactical acumen and great coordination between individuals to make number work for you. A mob is not a combat unit, its a danger to itself.

This.
Night lords operate using terror as their weapon. It would never be a full frontal assault unless there was no other way, or they had run out of time. They would kill a few weaklings and let their screams of pain terrorize the rest of the mob. Throw a headless body down into the center of the masses and watch hysteria ensue. Precise shots from the shadows to kill the leaders. Sowing panic amongst the throngs of untrained minions would take no time at all and the night lords would revel in the terror that they caused. They are artists of fear. ONE night lord could probably orchestrate the death of 10,000 over his life span. the rednecks in atlanta would be easy prey.

redneck refers to an individual from the poor appilachan area and the stereotypes associated with said people. It is actually pretty insulting and the only reason it isnt politically incorrect is so people who are "politically correct" love to hurl the insult if racust redneck to their opposition. The way fifty marines kill that many people is similar to how ten fit in a rino

^^^ [The Home Nuggeteer]

What the hell is this guy going on a bout?

Also, atlanta. Have fun.

Over 41 thousand years of perfected killing vs sheep. Good luck.

And don't tell me the sheep will overwhelm the flying dragons with their much greater numbers. Not going to happen.

Also, atlanta. Have fun.

were the third most violent city in the US so i'd say we'd have the best chance.

Population of Tsagualsa, you have colonised our planet without authority. We are the Space Marines, please congregate in open ground where we will ship you off world. If you do not comply we will destroy you.

Population Congregates.

PEWWW PEWWW

Night Lords: We lied

Ironclad Warlord wrote:

Also, atlanta. Have fun.

were the third most violent city in the US so i'd say we'd have the best chance.

You are just men. Enslaved men. Wage slaves. You spend most if not all of your time either toiling away at some annoying job. bar fights, drug deals gon wrong some militia or something - these experiences wont lead you guys to stand a chance against 50 Night Lords.

No amount of speed and uzis will protect you from a perfected killing machine. The heavier explosives, well maybe. The military bases in atlanta are your only hope, and they will die too.

You are up against monsters of war that have logistics the likes of which you nor your countless neighbors have seen. Weapons that are extremely powerful on all fronts. Your society, the city of atlanta, will die. All of them.

 DoMiNaNt_HuNtEr wrote:
^^^ [The Home Nuggeteer]

What the hell is this guy going on a bout?

Also, atlanta. Have fun.

Over 41 thousand years of perfected killing vs sheep. Good luck.

And don't tell me the sheep will overwhelm the flying dragons with their much greater numbers. Not going to happen.

he used redneck in the wrong context not that im expecting you to get the north generalizes the soutg and rhe south hates that and the south will rise again thing, in the US we are weird that way.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:

Also, atlanta. Have fun.

were the third most violent city in the US so i'd say we'd have the best chance.

Astartes are not infantry. They're more similar to a bunch of armed APC's rolled up and started shooting everyone. Your bullets aren't going to be doing much, if anything. Not to mention not many people will stand up and fight when they're simply popped by a 20-40mm autocannon or simply rolled over.

And I'm pretty sure Atlanta doesn't have RPG's, or at least a lot of them. Uzis won't do anything against Astartes. Hell even RPG's wouldn't.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:

Also, atlanta. Have fun.

were the third most violent city in the US so i'd say we'd have the best chance.

Because having a population of wannabe tough guys with pistols and pocket knives is gonna stop a group of beings whom exist only to kill, are armored head to toe with material none of your bullets can penetrate, and are armed with guns that shoot bullets the size of your hand.

Your average Atlanta thug wouldn't be able to go toe to toe with a grot let alone a 9 foot tall crazed serial killer space marine.

Ironclad Warlord wrote:

Also, atlanta. Have fun.

were the third most violent city in the US so i'd say we'd have the best chance.

Surely using your 'logic' the first most violent city in the US would have the best chance?
40 NL would slaughter 10,000 civilians. If it was 10,000 IG they MAYBE would win, but civilians have no chance, especially against the NL who specialize in breaking morale.

Because having a population of wannabe tough guys with pistols and pocket knives is gonna stop a group of beings whom exist only to kill, are armored head to toe with material none of your bullets can penetrate, and are armed with guns that shoot bullets the size of your hand.

Large population that has served and has military training. Military bases, national guard, tanks, Dobbins air force base.

You spend most if not all of your time either toiling away at some annoying job. bar fights, drug deals gon wrong some militia

So we are basicly the night lords without the geneseed. An interesting generalization you've made about me.

Because GW doesn't get how numbers work.

 Psienesis wrote:
There are times when mundane firepower in possession of civilians is laughably inefficient. When it comes to Space Marines in the fluff, lasguns and autoguns just aren't going to cut it.

I dispute this. Both of those are quite capable of killing Space Marines even in power armor, especially when it's a number of them firing at once.

That said, civilians wouldn't be able to deliver the amount of military-grade small arms fire needed to take down the Space Marines fast enough, and they wouldn't have the discipline to do it effectively even if they had it. The number they could take down would be in the single digits, at most, and it'd probably just be incapacitation rather than death for the Space Marine in question. The Marine would be back up in a few days and back at it.

 Melissia wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
There are times when mundane firepower in possession of civilians is laughably inefficient. When it comes to Space Marines in the fluff, lasguns and autoguns just aren't going to cut it.

I dispute this. Both of those are quite capable of killing Space Marines even in power armor, especially when it's a number of them firing at once.

I dispute this. Both of those are quite incapable of killing Space Marines in power armor, even when it's a number of them firing at once.

Lasguns/Autoguns can kill Space Marines. Just have to hit a weak spot.

How did the Night Lords actually get this done? Did they blow up cities and such or did they kill people with Bolter and blade?

So this has degenerated into a, we are proud of our guns and could take space marines and the you are psychotic thugs who have nothing on marines.

I recall fluff about bullets from auto guns killing marines through eye sockets in the dark vengeance box how to play magazine insert in the shooting section. Assuming an autogun is similar to the type of semi auto weapons available in relatively large quantity in Atlanta, then statistically the angry street thugs would win, at high cost, but guerilla warfare in a city that is unfamiliar is pretty hard. I think another error we make is assuming that members of gangs do not attempt to psychologically break their enemies down and veterans of gang warfare would get with the program pretty quickly.
Just my 2 cents, take em or leave em.

Space Marines are supposed to be super soldiers clad in armor that only heavy weapons could statistically pierce with certainty.

Imagine each marine is a Rambo with the durability of a Terminator but the strategic thinking of Julius Caesar and sadism of Hannibal Lector. And Night Lords are basically evil Batmans running around.

The combination is supposed to be fluff-wise what a marine is built to be capable of. Given they also do not tire that easily, they could with enough time they could effectively wipe out a significant settlement by themselves without much effort.

The refugees on Tsagualsa were survivors from a lost colony ship. The planet was never one that was intended to support life; the people did great to eke out a living as long as they did. When the Night Lords came in, they cut out communication and spread terror as quickly as possible (as they are wont to do), finding the bunkers with the women, children, and elderly so that they could kill them first. The "military" of the colonists was scattered (some of them abandoning their posts to try to get away from the invaders), and poorly armed. The level of tech on that world wasn't great to begin with, since colonists aren't equipped to stage a full scale invasion. And they had been forced to cannibalize their own equipment over the course of the decades since their arrival, so their forces were under-equipped.

Not to mention, in a world where psychic phenomena are quite real, Tsagualsa is probably on the top ten list of "Places Not To Go, Ever." The amount of ambient background horror on that world would most likely make the inhabitants uniquely susceptible to terror tactics.

 The Home Nuggeteer wrote:
So this has degenerated into a, we are proud of our guns and could take space marines and the you are psychotic thugs who have nothing on marines.

I recall fluff about bullets from auto guns killing marines through eye sockets in the dark vengeance box how to play magazine insert in the shooting section. Assuming an autogun is similar to the type of semi auto weapons available in relatively large quantity in Atlanta, then statistically the angry street thugs would win, at high cost, but guerilla warfare in a city that is unfamiliar is pretty hard. I think another error we make is assuming that members of gangs do not attempt to psychologically break their enemies down and veterans of gang warfare would get with the program pretty quickly.
Just my 2 cents, take em or leave em.

Man, what.

Autoguns are not at all similar to the weapons people carry Atlanta, unless I've been under a rock and Uzis apparently shoot 8.5 caliber bullets.

 WarOne wrote:
Space Marines are supposed to be super soldiers clad in armor that only heavy weapons could statistically pierce with certainty.

No they aren't.

Artificer armor is that good. Bog standard power armor is not.

Given the volume of fire they would face, the average Space Marine will die to small arms fire or close combat from Tyranids, Orks, and Traitors, not to heavy weapons fire. Furthermore, if genestealers can penetrate terminator armor fairly regularly, then it's simply untrue that far lesser armor is such that only heavy weapons stand a chance to injure the soldier inside.

 Melissia wrote:

 WarOne wrote:
Space Marines are supposed to be super soldiers clad in armor that only heavy weapons could statistically pierce with certainty.

No they aren't.

Artificer armor is that good. Bog standard power armor is not.

Given the volume of fire they would face, the average Space Marine will die to small arms fire or close combat from Tyranids, Orks, and Traitors, not to heavy weapons fire. Furthermore, if genestealers can penetrate terminator armor fairly regularly, then it's simply untrue that far lesser armor is such that only heavy weapons stand a chance to injure the soldier inside.

That's because Genestealer claws are sharp enough to slice molecular bonds apart. Your armor doesn't mean anything to them.