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1000 sons got what they deserved for thinking they know better then everyone else and dooming everyone. If magnus just fed off then the emperor would still be around, but like all arrogant people who screwed everyone over then refused his punishment and ran, now he sulks in a locked tower.

OgreChubbs wrote:
1000 sons got what they deserved for thinking they know better then everyone else and dooming everyone. If magnus just fed off then the emperor would still be around, but like all arrogant people who screwed everyone over then refused his punishment and ran, now he sulks in a locked tower.

Talk about a twisting of what happened...

He sent a warning to the Emperor that his favored son was about to turn on him, was never informed as to what was occurring at the Emperor's palace on Earth, and the SW's chose to attack and destroy his Legion instead of bringing Magnus back as per their original orders, and then nobody even heeded his warning.

Weren't they ordered to attack instead?

The first stage of Horus's plan to betray the Emperor involved modifying Russ's orders, replacing the directive to apprehend Magnus with an order to destroy him and his legion. Curiously, Constantin Valdor, who witnessed firsthand the effects of Magnus's actions and got his orders straight from Big E, didn't seem to have a problem with killing Magnus.

However, it's not like Magnus was a loyal son of the Emperor at any point. He consigned the souls of all his warriors to Tzeentch to address the instability in their geneseed, and then taught all of them to summon and bargain with lesser daemons to amplify their powers. Despite repeatedly being shown otherwise, he continued to act as though he were smarter and wiser than the Emperor, making bigger and bigger and bigger messes as he did.

Admittedly, I tend to think that the geneseed instability the XVth Legion suffered was a result of the machinations of Tzeentch, engineered for the express purpose of luring Magnus into a bargain that would lead him fully into the arms of the Primordial Annihilator.

As the Index Astartes notes, the details of the incident are sketchy and contradicted in many sources. I'd caution against treating a single Black Library novel as if it were the undiluted truth. For example, GW's Index Astartes suggests that it was Russ who persuaded the Emperor not to listen to Magnus' warnings, convincing him that Magnus was the traitor and not Horus, and urging him to authorise deployment against the Thousand Sons.

That's the upside of the many conflicting interpretations - you can pick the one you find the most interesting.

The novels that are written as first hand accounts seems like much more reliable sources of information than a White Dwarf article written from the perspective of someone writing about long forgotten ancient history.

Ignoring the primary source so that you can cling to the vagueness of an admittedly inaccurate tertiary one seems intellectually dishonest.

That's the thing - this is not how the franchise works.

Aaron Dembski-Bowden, one of the very creators of these novels, explained it in here:
"There is no canon. There's a variety of sources, many of which conflict, but every single one is a lens through which we can see the 40K setting."

He also quoted Marc Gascogne who made this statement back when he was the Head Editor of Black Library:
"Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it. Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths."

That novels are supposed to somehow be "truer" than other sources (an idea that, most interestingly, quickly gets discarded once someone mentions C.S. Goto) is one of the greatest misconceptions of the fandom.
No, let me amend this. The greatest one is the expectation that everything is actually designed to fit together like pieces of a puzzle, rather than acknowledging that contradictions are quite intentional. This urban rumour that just does not want to die must be the cause of 90% of the endless fluff debates between fans. The dishonesty lies with those who propagate the silly idea that 40k has a canon.

Games Workshop wants you as the individual gamer and reader to take possession of the setting, to shape and see it like you want. Just like they give you the tools to create your own Space Marine Chapter or Imperial Guard regiment. It took me a while to wrap my head around this, specifically because I was deceived into the same expectations about a consistent setting when I first joined the fandom (ADB also talks about the mistake of applying other IP's policies to 40k), but this is how it is, as per the people who made the stuff we read.

"Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 exist as tens of thousands of overlapping realities in the imaginations of games developers, writers, readers and gamers. None of those interpretations is wrong."
- Gav Thorpe

 Random Dude wrote:

pax_imperialis wrote:

 Otto Weston wrote:
Because the Space Wolves slaughtered the Thousand Sons..... and are dicks

This. Damn furries. I really want to like the wolves, i mean they're space vikings and should be the coolest thing ever, but i have yet to read a good depiction of them. I too finished thousand sons and was like "wow, what hypocritical ignorant dickbags, i hope fenris gets bombed"

In saying that, their codex does indeed make for a good khorne list, maybe they should just admit they love khorne and join team key-yoss.

Fenris has been attacked by many factions, even the Grey Knights and Inquisition. Logan Grimnar personally decapitated the inquisitor in charge of the attack.


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Plus if you're a heretic you deserve everything they can give you.

Heretics? Russ was following horus' orders. If the emperor had listened to magnus the heresy would have been avoided.

I meant the thousand sons are heretics.

 illuknisaa wrote:
Space wolves are an imperial army and they have 3+ armor save.

It's like you are complaing that santa hasn't preordered you the latest iphone even though you have been suffering with the older model for a week now.

Quoting for hilarity!

Screw the Space Pound Puppies! If they get their own trash, damnit, so do the Chaos Space Marines!! And not that garbage they shoveled earlier (Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter). Real books like Thousand Sons and Iron Warriors.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Screw the Space Pound Puppies! If they get their own trash, damnit, so do the Chaos Space Marines!! And not that garbage they shoveled earlier (Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter). Real books like Thousand Sons and Iron Warriors.

I agree. Chaos needs some respect, but do not fear! They are predicted to be the next release after Space Wolves.

 Random Dude wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Screw the Space Pound Puppies! If they get their own trash, damnit, so do the Chaos Space Marines!! And not that garbage they shoveled earlier (Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter). Real books like Thousand Sons and Iron Warriors.

I agree. Chaos needs some respect, but do not fear! They are predicted to be the next release after Space Wolves.

I cringe with anticipation. @__@; What will the loyalists do to us usurpers next? Better give our Terminators friggin Storm Shields and Thunder Hammers. That's some loyalist b.s. keeping the Chaos Armory empty.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Screw the Space Pound Puppies! If they get their own trash, damnit, so do the Chaos Space Marines!! And not that garbage they shoveled earlier (Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter). Real books like Thousand Sons and Iron Warriors.

I agree. Chaos needs some respect, but do not fear! They are predicted to be the next release after Space Wolves.

I cringe with anticipation. @__@; What will the loyalists do to us usurpers next? Better give our Terminators friggin Storm Shields and Thunder Hammers. That's some loyalist b.s. keeping the Chaos Armory empty.

Maybe not storm shields, but I heard Papa Nurgle is coming to town.

 Vaktathi wrote:

OgreChubbs wrote:
1000 sons got what they deserved for thinking they know better then everyone else and dooming everyone. If magnus just fed off then the emperor would still be around, but like all arrogant people who screwed everyone over then refused his punishment and ran, now he sulks in a locked tower.

Talk about a twisting of what happened...

He sent a warning to the Emperor that his favored son was about to turn on him, was never informed as to what was occurring at the Emperor's palace on Earth, and the SW's chose to attack and destroy his Legion instead of bringing Magnus back as per their original orders, and then nobody even heeded his warning.

Horus ordered Russ to kill Magnus and the Sons rather than bring them back.

 Lynata wrote:

Aaron Dembski-Bowden, one of the very creators of these novels, explained it in here:

Aaron Demsbki-Bowden has outright stated that there is a canon in 40K.

Space Wolves are not neglected, want to talk about neglected there are a series of other armies who feel it more painfully then you guys do (Bretonnians in Fantasy for example, they have a book that's 7 years old and counting). Just be patient, they will get to your precious puppies in no time, either way my Elyisans and Tau will be waiting

Orks were in 4th edition until 7th edition. Talk about sw being neglected when you go to 8th.

Also fluff wise space wolves might be the worst codex, wolf mcwolferson wolfed a wolf to the wolfing wolf is pretty much how it reads. That said it is still one of the best books for apace marines. When you get a new book I doubt it will add much power. I bet they are one of the next up though I think blood angels who if I remember right are older than space wolves Dex wise is next IOM then likely dark eldar who ate also older... Then probably wolves

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Orks were in 4th edition until 7th edition. Talk about sw being neglected when you go to 8th.

Also fluff wise space wolves might be the worst codex, wolf mcwolferson wolfed a wolf to the wolfing wolf is pretty much how it reads. That said it is still one of the best books for apace marines. When you get a new book I doubt it will add much power. I bet they are one of the next up though I think blood angels who if I remember right are older than space wolves Dex wise is next IOM then likely dark eldar who ate also older... Then probably wolves

The Space Wolves fluff is amazing if you have any appreciation for Norse mythology.

I love my Wolves but I'll admit, I wish they could lean a bit more towards some Viking-ish stuff and didn't use Wolf, claw, or fang as a substitute for every other word. Personally, I'm really hoping they get a name change like IG did to Astra Militarum. I'd freaking love fielding an army of Vlka Fenryka.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
I love my Wolves but I'll admit, I wish they could lean a bit more towards some Viking-ish stuff and didn't use Wolf, claw, or fang as a substitute for every other word. Personally, I'm really hoping they get a name change like IG did to Astra Militarum. I'd freaking love fielding an army of Vlka Fenryka.

I agree. If they had never existed previously and a new army was released called "Space Wolves" the internet would melt from the heat of the ridicule.

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

 TheRedWingArmada wrote:
Screw the Space Pound Puppies! If they get their own trash, damnit, so do the Chaos Space Marines!! And not that garbage they shoveled earlier (Black Legion and Crimson Slaughter). Real books like Thousand Sons and Iron Warriors.

I agree. Chaos needs some respect, but do not fear! They are predicted to be the next release after Space Wolves.

I cringe with anticipation. @__@; What will the loyalists do to us usurpers next? Better give our Terminators friggin Storm Shields and Thunder Hammers. That's some loyalist b.s. keeping the Chaos Armory empty.

I have heard the Heldrake fire arc is reduced to 10 degrees to the front and may only make a turn ever-other game turn.

"Watch out Magnus, you know you're not supposed to use magic. Magic is eeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiilll"
"But you have librarians."
"No, they're rune priests"
"But they use magic"
"No, they use wolf...magic. It's different".

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:
I love my Wolves but I'll admit, I wish they could lean a bit more towards some Viking-ish stuff and didn't use Wolf, claw, or fang as a substitute for every other word. Personally, I'm really hoping they get a name change like IG did to Astra Militarum. I'd freaking love fielding an army of Vlka Fenryka.

Vlka Fenryka would definitely be a better name for them. It could also open up new options: space wolves refers to the space marines of Fenris, while vlka fenryka means folks of fenris, so including fenrisian wolves and other 'local forces' wouldn't seem as silly. They might even get their unique leman russ tanks back with a codex called that...

pax_imperialis wrote:
"Watch out Magnus, you know you're not supposed to use magic. Magic is eeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiilll"
"But you have librarians."
"No, they're rune priests"
"But they use magic"
"No, they use wolf...magic. It's different".

I imagine this actually how it went.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Also fluff wise space wolves might be the worst codex, wolf mcwolferson wolfed a wolf to the wolfing wolf is pretty much how it reads.

Make you wonder why people call the ultramarines smurfs. Actually, the Space Smurf speaks in smurf all the time. They just replace the word smurf with the word wolf. They wolf like that all the wolf. The smurf angels replace the word smurf with blood. They blood like that all the blood. It is wolfing a blood silly, if you get what I mean .

And the Space Wolves don't even call themselves Space Wolves. They actually call themselves Vlka Fenryka.

pax_imperialis wrote:"Watch out Magnus, you know you're not supposed to use magic. Magic is eeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiilll"
"But you have librarians."
"No, they're rune priests"
"But they use magic"
"No, they use wolf...magic. It's different".

Exactly!

Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:Personally, I'm really hoping they get a name change like IG did to Astra Militarum. I'd freaking love fielding an army of Vlka Fenryka.

You mean Astarium Lupisicus? Astartes Fenririum? Adeptus Dogerius? In seriousness, I'd approve of this as well, but they'd have to tell us how to pronounce that.

pm713 wrote:
Weren't they ordered to attack instead?

By Horus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Random Dude wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Orks were in 4th edition until 7th edition. Talk about sw being neglected when you go to 8th.

Also fluff wise space wolves might be the worst codex, wolf mcwolferson wolfed a wolf to the wolfing wolf is pretty much how it reads. That said it is still one of the best books for apace marines. When you get a new book I doubt it will add much power. I bet they are one of the next up though I think blood angels who if I remember right are older than space wolves Dex wise is next IOM then likely dark eldar who ate also older... Then probably wolves

The Space Wolves fluff is amazing if you have any appreciation for Norse mythology.

Except the part where they're Canadians.

 Psienesis wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Weren't they ordered to attack instead?

By Horus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Random Dude wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Orks were in 4th edition until 7th edition. Talk about sw being neglected when you go to 8th.

Also fluff wise space wolves might be the worst codex, wolf mcwolferson wolfed a wolf to the wolfing wolf is pretty much how it reads. That said it is still one of the best books for apace marines. When you get a new book I doubt it will add much power. I bet they are one of the next up though I think blood angels who if I remember right are older than space wolves Dex wise is next IOM then likely dark eldar who ate also older... Then probably wolves

The Space Wolves fluff is amazing if you have any appreciation for Norse mythology.

Except the part where they're Canadians.

You'll have to explain that one, I don't see any similarity between Space Wolves and Canadians.

 Random Dude wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Orks were in 4th edition until 7th edition. Talk about sw being neglected when you go to 8th.

Also fluff wise space wolves might be the worst codex, wolf mcwolferson wolfed a wolf to the wolfing wolf is pretty much how it reads. That said it is still one of the best books for apace marines. When you get a new book I doubt it will add much power. I bet they are one of the next up though I think blood angels who if I remember right are older than space wolves Dex wise is next IOM then likely dark eldar who ate also older... Then probably wolves

The Space Wolves fluff is amazing if you have any appreciation for Norse mythology.

...except for the parts where they win against silly odds that would make the silliest SW fanfic look professional. *Cough* Battle of The Fang *cough* Blood of Asheim

BrianDavion wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Weren't they ordered to attack instead?

By Horus.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Random Dude wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
Orks were in 4th edition until 7th edition. Talk about sw being neglected when you go to 8th.

Also fluff wise space wolves might be the worst codex, wolf mcwolferson wolfed a wolf to the wolfing wolf is pretty much how it reads. That said it is still one of the best books for apace marines. When you get a new book I doubt it will add much power. I bet they are one of the next up though I think blood angels who if I remember right are older than space wolves Dex wise is next IOM then likely dark eldar who ate also older... Then probably wolves

The Space Wolves fluff is amazing if you have any appreciation for Norse mythology.

Except the part where they're Canadians.

You'll have to explain that one, I don't see any similarity between Space Wolves and Canadians.