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so 2 marneus calgars are legal 2 lysanders 2 mephistonbs and anyo other by your non-raw ruling

But both coteaz would be the same model so you can't do that.

According to reaper why yes you CAN field two Calgars! One in regular armor and one in terminator armor! because I mean come that means they arent the same unique character, they have different armor

Put a goatee on one of them. Then claim it's his Evil Twin.

Unique Models
...... are noted as being Unique in their Army List Entry. Unique models include named characters and extraordinary units or vehicles, of which there is only one known example in the whole galaxy. Because of this, you can only ever include one of each Unique model in an army.

Note "Model", not "set of rules"

There is only ONE official model for Coteaz.
If you are not using the official model then you aren't playing RAW anyway.

Stop trying to cheat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lol two calgars sounds legit.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Unique Models
...... are noted as being Unique in their Army List Entry. Unique models include named characters and extraordinary units or vehicles, of which there is only one known example in the whole galaxy. Because of this, you can only ever include one of each Unique model in an army.

Note "Model", not "set of rules"

There is only ONE official model for Coteaz.
If you are not using the official model then you aren't playing RAW anyway.

Stop trying to cheat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lol two calgars sounds legit.

So what if there is no official model for something? And what about models that have multiple models?

 DeathReaper wrote:

Naw wrote:
Why don't you read what the previous poster wrote as he quoted the full rule?

Your interpretation is incorrect assumption not based on actual rules.

My interpretation is RAW.

Let's see..

"Unique models include named characters"

Inquisitor Coteaz in two sources. Is it a named character? Yes, it is.

You wrote:
The part where it says "one of each Unique model" means the models have to be the same to be disallowed from taking more than one.

And what was the definition of a unique model? Did it specify rules anywhere? Let's find out:

"Some models are noted as being Unique in their Army List Entry. Unique models include named characters and extraordinary units or vehicles, of which there is only one known example in the whole galaxy. Because of this, you can only ever include one of each Unique model in an army."

Nope, it is not specified. Only that named characters, extraordinary units and vehicles are unique models.

The quote is take direct from the Unique Models section..

The part where it says "one of each Unique model" means the models have to be the same to be disallowed from taking more than one.

And you are incorrect here, as shown above.

having the same name is not enough for unique to limit it, for the reasons I gave earlier in this post.

Then what is? You have provided the rules, please quote the exact sentence where the above claim is supported.

That's a good point about the "model" and not unit phrasing. Because isn't there a Formation that has a named character in it? I forget which one.

By that logic you could take that formation and then take another one of those models?


Changing my decision because of that and the phrasing of in your army which would include all of your army allies as well.

So I've changed my RAW to not being allowed.

As I stated before when this subject came up, if this is attempted at any events I and others run we will treat it as a blatant attempt to cheat and exploit the rules.

Others and t.o can do as they please of course.

 Formosa wrote:
As I stated before when this subject came up, if this is attempted at any events I and others run we will treat it as a blatant attempt to cheat and exploit the rules

It, technically, is not cheating because the army list would be rejected before the tournament, asking the player to correct it.

Can you field Mephiston and Calgar in the same army?

If so why?

They are two completely different characters. whats your reasoning behind not being able to field both of them? As stated above, with your logic I could run TWO Calgar...

 DeathReaper wrote:
Can you field Mephiston and Calgar in the same army?

Fine, I'll play: Yes.

If so why?

Because they are unique characters with different names.

I'd go with the precedent set by Supplements, in which you can't field the same named character twice in both the primary and allied detachments (e.g. a Codex: CSM Abaddon and a Supplement: Black Legion Abaddon). However, them being in separate books (Inquisition and Grey Knights) makes it a unique situation which the rules don't cover.

Personally, I'd allow it.

Lshowell: That is not at all what Reaper was arguing. The premise of the argument is that Coteaz from the Inquisition book and Coteaz from the Grey Knights Codex are different characters because they are in different books, and have different rules.

Fielding two of the same character in different detachments is specifically forbidden by Supplements, but it doesn't cover what you're allowed to do when the characters are from completely different sources because normally this situation wouldn't happen. Supplements have specific wording to forbid duplicates of the same unique character, but the Inquisition book does not. Therefore, it is not forbidden by RAW.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Supplements have specific wording to forbid duplicates of the same unique character, but the Inquisition book does not. Therefore, it is not forbidden by RAW.

Luckily BRB lays out the rule so we don't have to guess..

You're right Frozen, I was only trying to make a point. You're also correct in the fact that there is no FAQ for it. However, given what I'm sure we all know GW was trying to make a point of when stating their rules on having multiples of the same unique character, Coteaz in either codex is obviously the same, just slightly different. BFor all intensive purposes he is the same, I personally would not allow it in any game or tourney. Until there is a clearer answer, all we will get is the two sides of the same coin.

Actually an argument could be made that you could field 2 Marneus Calgar or 2 Khan. If you take the optional wargear (armour or bike) on one, they have different profiles, thus meaning they are different models.

Naw wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Can you field Mephiston and Calgar in the same army?

Fine, I'll play: Yes.

If so why?

Because they are unique characters with different names.

So why does this not apply?

"you can only ever include one of each Unique model in an army."

They are both unique models.

Is it the "one of each Unique model in an army" that lets us take them both? Is it because they are different?

 Happyjew wrote:
Actually an argument could be made that you could field 2 Marneus Calgar or 2 Khan. If you take the optional wargear (armour or bike) on one, they have different profiles, thus meaning they are different models.

Also jetbike Sammael and Land Speeder Sammael.

Simple way to end this. Just provide them the blister number for the GK Coteaz and the I one. Since GW obviously has them as separate characters they have different models for them.

So this means you can take duplicates of characters who don't have models? The rules have no connection to the blister numbers or any other "real world" considerations.

First of all: you can NOT restrict unique to the physical model. If you did this, even basic troops would be "unique" as there are different poses per sprue - and what if I decide to convert one of my models?

Secondly: stop throwing RAW around. We simply do not have any RAW at this point as there is no RAW definition of "unique" - it is not laid out in how you would define the uniqueness of a model.

So, what is left is RAI which is 100% clear.

...and really, anyone who seriously plays such a list should not be played.

rules do not determine if a model is "unique" our english language has a different defination than.

uniqued models include named characters.

if the models have the same name they are unique, rules do not matter.

If the models have the same rank they are not unique as a rank is not a name. ie marine, sgt, boy, git, nob, are ranks.

If coteaz is listed as coteaz in the profile of both army list entries then they are both the same coteaz. Their individual rules do not matter.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
So this means you can take duplicates of characters who don't have models? The rules have no connection to the blister numbers or any other "real world" considerations.

And Duplicates of models who have multiple models. Hello assassins.

-Matt

 DeathReaper wrote:

Naw wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Can you field Mephiston and Calgar in the same army?

Fine, I'll play: Yes.

If so why?

Because they are unique characters with different names.

So why does this not apply?

"you can only ever include one of each Unique model in an army."

They are both unique models.

By what logic are they the same unique model?

Is it the "one of each Unique model in an army" that lets us take them both? Is it because they are different?

They are unique, but do not have the same name, as per the rules.

Was there a point here that I for some reason missed?

Naw wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

Naw wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Can you field Mephiston and Calgar in the same army?

Fine, I'll play: Yes.

If so why?

Because they are unique characters with different names.

So why does this not apply?

"you can only ever include one of each Unique model in an army."

They are both unique models.

By what logic are they the same unique model?

Okay, so they have to be the same Unique model to be restricted? so since the two different Coteaz units are not the same they can both be fielded.

They are unique, but do not have the same name, as per the rules.

Was there a point here that I for some reason missed?

Yes, they have to be the same model to be restricted from taking more than one.

Stop arguing, let this thread die, and just go re-read the old threads. No need to rehash what's already been answered.

 DeathReaper wrote:


Okay, so they have to be the same Unique model to be restricted? so since the two different Coteaz units are not the same they can both be fielded.

That's your personal, likely to not be accepted anywhere, house rule.

 Zande4 wrote:
It takes a person of great intelligence to decipher the great riddle of Coteaz! You see in one book there's a guy called Inquisitor Torquemada Coteaz with a page detailing his history, exploits and stat-line and also includes a nice little photo of him. But then there's this other book with this guy with the same name, history, exploits, stat-line and even looks the same! But you see it takes a keen mind to crack the true nature of this riddle! One has a pre-determined Warlord Trait and one of his special rules is worded differently, so he's OBVIOUSLY a completely different person! You'd have to be an incompetent fool not to know this. While you're at it take 2 Karamazov's, he's got a different Warlord Trait too! Oh wait.... no... let's not make that argument because he's crap in game and we don't want to spam him...

This comes down to one thing. Do you have common sense? // Yes - You can only take one Coteaz. // No - You can take 2 Coteaz' and models without eyes can't shoot because they never have LoS, also when Pyrovores are killed by Instant Death they inflict hits on every unit, ever.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

This comes down to one thing. Do you have common sense? // Yes - You can only take one Coteaz. // No - You can take 2 Coteaz' and models without eyes can't shoot because they never have LoS, also when Pyrovores are killed by Instant Death they inflict hits on every unit, ever.