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2014/07/06 00:48:25
Subject: Dark Angels - 1000+ points halp me i don't even
* Devastator Squad
Lascannon, 3 x Missile Launcher, 4x Space Marine
* Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Boltgun, Signum
(Created with BattleScribe, I'm maintaining the Dark Angel catalog file.)
Is anything there a terrible waste of points?
I also have table-ready:
* Techmarine
* Asmodai (or interrogator chaplain)
* Company Master with power sword
* Deathwing Terminator squad with any of the special weapons but zero assault weapons
* Chaplain in terminator armor
* Inquisitor Terminator and some acolytes (Adeptes Arbites lol)
* Sergeants and Company Masters w/ power fists
* green dudes with missile, 2x heavy bolters
* lots of bolter dudes
* A Vindacare assassin I can't use in 7th
Would any of those be better swapped into the list above?
Which would be the first additions for a 1500 game?
I've yet to paint:
* the Dark Vengance bike squad (primed and next to paint)
* 2 x attack bikes w/ multi-melta
* A second drop pod
* more veterans with melta guns and plasma guns and combi-plasmas
* A few rhinos and razorbacks from a friend
* Belial
* the other Dark Vengance models (librarian, master, terminators, interrogator-chaplain)
* the crappy old Space Hulk terminators
* even more bolter dudes
Which of these should I paint next?
And what would really fill a hole in this collection that I should bid for on eBay? I'm considering things like the Ravenwing battleforce box or a Whirlwind or some more drop pods or the knights.
I appreciate y'all's feedback and I can repay good advice with fixes to Battlescribe catalog files.
As what to paint, get your tac squads mobile ASAP, so get those rhino's, razorbacks and drop pod painted.
Going with what ionusx said, get a buffing banner. The revered standard is not really that great(once your meched up you won't need the running bonus), and a command squad on foot is as good as dead. Ideally you get a devastation banner in a land raider crusader, and let your troops dakka away with bolter madness. You can use a rhino/razorback in a pinch with the same stragety. You can downgrade the revered standard to a plain jane company banner and just put em in a razorback a la carte. The apocathary might be better off as a vet with a boltgun unless you have a dire need to protect the banner(like a dakka banner). Also, move the flamer to your more mobile tac squad in the razorback.
CC scouts don't mesh well with the heavy bolter. You really want sniper scouts or at least boltgun scouts to go with the HB to match roles. Consider freeing up some points and just running a 5 man tac squad with a heavy bolter to do a similar job, but survive longer.
Most people understand plasma pistols are garbage, and won't fault you for running a combi plas in its stead, just so long as you point it out and it is in your list as combi plas.
Consider squeezing in some deathwing with an assault cannon to drop in and help with AT/all purpose dakka.
For 1500 you could make a decent list with Belial and a couple squads of deathwing supported with some rhino's, razorbacks, devs and drop pods.
The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden
2014/07/07 05:55:47
Subject: Dark Angels - 1000+ points halp me i don't even
I played a learning game against my old friend's Dark Eldar tonight. I swapped out the scouts and the garbage tactical squad and snapped together my three bike squad (which paid off by capturing a far victory point.) He brought half of his army out of a webway portal, but was hindered by some 7th edition rules as we understood them:
* Passengers may not disembark from a vehicle that moved more than 6", even if it's an open-topped Fast Skimmer.
* Units arriving from reserves (via webway) may not charge in that turn.
(Are those correct?)
He also made the mistake of moving within 24" of my Librarian, command squad, and plasma combat squad taking cover within a ruin, instead of moving around the table edges and picking off my scoring units. (this was also his first game after many years.) My dread rolled 11 to charge 10" to his final warrior to barely table him before the other half of his army could arrive.
ionusx wrote: Get some anti tank for gaks sake. Dark angels rely on two things to get us through our maneuverability and our tiny bag of trickery.
We are a very flexible codex that can hand out massive aoe buff bubbles. Abuse these things.
I've the devastator and Razorback, and that dropping dread with multi-melta, do you mean more anti-tank in the tactical squads?
I guess Dark Angels are a bit more maneuverable than most other chapters. I hope to learn how to leverage that (although the gunline worked against my friend's deldar.)
Dr. Serling wrote: As what to paint, get your tac squads mobile ASAP, so get those rhino's, razorbacks and drop pod painted.
Yes, I just got them tonight. They're covered in thick awful paint, but hopefully the rubbing alcohol will work in a week or so. I like the idea of mechanized green wing like this, and it may be the easiest reach with what I've painted so far (since I have zero painted bikes and zero land raiders or deathwing knights.)
Dr. Serling wrote: Going with what ionusx said, get a buffing banner. The revered standard is not really that great(once your meched up you won't need the running bonus), and a command squad on foot is as good as dead. Ideally you get a devastation banner in a land raider crusader, and let your troops dakka away with bolter madness. You can use a rhino/razorback in a pinch with the same stragety. You can downgrade the revered standard to a plain jane company banner and just put em in a razorback a la carte. The apocathary might be better off as a vet with a boltgun unless you have a dire need to protect the banner(like a dakka banner). Also, move the flamer to your more mobile tac squad in the razorback.
If I'd had the devastation banner in tonight's game, it would've been over even quicker. I saw how keeping troops two feet away from a squad is valuable. The apothecary is one of my better painted models so he's staying. (The Razorback squad Zephon has a flamer already, and I've dropped the Nuriel squad in favor of bikes.)
Is it really worth it to put an entire command squad in a Razorback that they can't shoot out of? Maybe a Rhino would be more appropriate? I don't think a land raider is in my purchasing future, and it seems a lot for 1000 points.
Dr. Serling wrote: CC scouts don't mesh well with the heavy bolter. You really want sniper scouts or at least boltgun scouts to go with the HB to match roles. Consider freeing up some points and just running a 5 man tac squad with a heavy bolter to do a similar job, but survive longer.
They're the old plastic mono-pose models. The good news is that I just got some old pewter scouts with better weapons, but until they're painted I just won't take those CC scouts (unless i'm fighting a gunline I guess?)
Dr. Serling wrote: Most people understand plasma pistols are garbage, and won't fault you for running a combi plas in its stead, just so long as you point it out and it is in your list as combi plas.
I've got a few combi-weapons now that I'll model soon.
Dr. Serling wrote: Consider squeezing in some deathwing with an assault cannon to drop in and help with AT/all purpose dakka.
For 1500 you could make a decent list with Belial and a couple squads of deathwing supported with some rhino's, razorbacks, devs and drop pods.
It's pretty hard to "squeeze in" one quarter of 1000 points, but they would probably be my next addition in a 1250 or 1500 point game, followed by bikes and attack bikes.
Anti tank is rarely something you have too much of, so even if you load up on an extra melta weapon here and there, it will be beneficial in the long run. It helps against deldar since their armor can be dropped by bolter fire, but against 2-3 land raiders you are facing a serious challenge.
Use simple green over rubbing alcohol, it is a bit easier on the plastic(metal does not give a damn) and works quicker.
Nothing particularly wrong with an apoc in your command squad, but any form of protection is gold. Deldar can dump poison into the command squad to the point where FNP wont matter, but forcing them to waste lance fire on a rhino buys your command squad 1-2 turns easy. A rhino to dakka out of is good, but if you don't need their fire a razorback can do.
The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden
2014/07/07 21:05:48
Subject: Re:Dark Angels - 1000+ points halp me i don't even
So some advice for dark angels, this codex is about ravenwing and death wing right now. Ravenwing is the best list by far, but if your going to do it most of the model you currently own wont see any use.
From what I see you have the makings of the green wing. Essentially standard codex marines with a dark angels twist. My advice get a land raider, make it venerable. 7th addition made dark angel land raiders almost un-kill-able. Forcing opponents to re-roll on the penetration chart is just so strong in 7th.
Deathwing knights with either ezeakeal or an interrogator chaplain riding in that land raider if very strong. That would be the core of your army, you can then use tactical, and devastators, and other such things as back up and do very well I think.
Hope that helps, but the land raider plus, deathwing knights are very strong and it will still allow you to use alot of what you own.
If you go ravenwing or deathwing your army will be either all bikes or all termies, and you wouldnt get any use out of your current models. GL and happy wargamnig.
2014/07/16 05:59:58
Subject: Re:Dark Angels - 1000+ points halp me i don't even
but wow he just could not deal with that many tanks. One transport is a target, but four overwhelms his anti-tank.
The first turn, I drew all three tactical objectives to secure the one in his far corner. I panicked until I remembered my drop pod squad. One 8-hit flamer template later, those 3 victory points were cleared of warriors and his Archon was fleeing. I can't imagine not taking a deep striking unit in a Maelstrom game!
That list is intentionally weak, but it still proved the mechanized greenwing concept; I think I'm sold on it for now because that's what I have (mostly) painted.
So how should I put the Dark Angel twist on tactical squads, rhinos, and razorbacks? None of the banners benefit vehicles, and tournament FAQ's say the Power Field Generator doesn't work outside of a vehicle. Maybe a techmarine with PFG could run or bike behind some tanks, but I don't think that'd be worth it. I'll get a Land Raider Crusader some day but that'll never fit within 1000 points.
More importantly though, what could my friend take to counter this list? Lots of trueborn with blasters? Ravagers? maybe one of the deldar flyers? His Most Valuable Unit this game was a Raider that body blocked two of my transports; a dirty trick!
The techmarine and PFG is a fairly common tactic, particularly with land raiders as they can totally obscure the model with ease. I could see hiding a tech on a bike behind a rhino/back just as easily though.
Your list could be made stronger by swapping the tac squads and their transports. If you want a vet sarge and melta bombs, a drop pod is a better option as it can get you into CC quickly. The rhino is decent to transport troops to the midfield and dakka, but not for an assault. If the plasma cannon is going to combat squad out and sit back, why not have it with the 5 man flamer team which can run cleanup? So put the vet, combi plas and plas in the pod, while the flamer rides in the rhino while the cannon combat squads and stays back.
If I was running DE to counter this list, I would run at least 2, probably 3 ravagers. Blasterborn are not bad either, maybe a squad. The key is popping your transports and DA will die to poison fire as any other marine does.
Since you want to run greenwingish, go for a banner to either boost your army(dev banner) or something cheap(company standard). Lots of transports can be hard to deal with, and razorbacks are dangerous enough that they have to be addressed, but most AT platforms just chip them on a good day. Use your stubborn chapter tactics to hold in combats when you can, trying to make your opponents squads beat you in their assault phase so you can shoot their assault unit.
The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden
2014/07/16 11:26:19
Subject: Dark Angels - 1000+ points halp me i don't even
Dr. Serling wrote: The techmarine and PFG is a fairly common tactic, particularly with land raiders as they can totally obscure the model with ease. I could see hiding a tech on a bike behind a rhino/back just as easily though.
Your list could be made stronger by swapping the tac squads and their transports. If you want a vet sarge and melta bombs, a drop pod is a better option as it can get you into CC quickly. The rhino is decent to transport troops to the midfield and dakka, but not for an assault. If the plasma cannon is going to combat squad out and sit back, why not have it with the 5 man flamer team which can run cleanup? So put the vet, combi plas and plas in the pod, while the flamer rides in the rhino while the cannon combat squads and stays back.
If I was running DE to counter this list, I would run at least 2, probably 3 ravagers. Blasterborn are not bad either, maybe a squad. The key is popping your transports and DA will die to poison fire as any other marine does.
Since you want to run greenwingish, go for a banner to either boost your army(dev banner) or something cheap(company standard). Lots of transports can be hard to deal with, and razorbacks are dangerous enough that they have to be addressed, but most AT platforms just chip them on a good day. Use your stubborn chapter tactics to hold in combats when you can, trying to make your opponents squads beat you in their assault phase so you can shoot their assault unit.
No sane person has his techmarine behind the tank. You can stuff him inside now.
Op yes you have at but it's all close range or short range. It needs to get their first and in 1000 pts games you can start to see a lot of armor (necrons, ig, sob). Your relying so much on getting in your enemies face that you've lost sight of the role greenwing takes. Greenwing marines are medium range infantry. They rely on staying at that range or longer and dishing out the hurt. Staying close is the role of some greenwing units but not all of them. Land raiders and dreads get up in their face. Veterans get up in their face. Assault marines (and Lord knows why you would take leave of your senses and use them) excel at that. Don't, your going to get picked apart getting to your ideal positions only to get beaten senseless when you do.
You want to see a nasty close up combo here we go:
Land raider redeemer, dw vehicle, mm (280)
1x5veterans, melta, sgt has combat shield and power maul/axe (120)
Techmarine, full servo harness, pfg (105)
Total: (505)
What we have here is an enemy's worst nightmare brought to life you have a virtually impregnable pillbox on tracks with a 4+ save vs most anything and if he does score a penetration he can't crack it open in a single shot because every penetrating hit he must reroll the result on the table. When the veterans disembark They can charge right in to combat with two servo arms, an axe/maul plus the sgt has an invul shield of 4+. If the tech gets wasted he has a 6+. Between the units you see Here you have a bolter, 3 pistols, a plasma pistol, two flamers, a pair of flamestorm cannons, a multi melta, and a tl assault cannon. Their going to annihilate whatever comes in template range let me tell you. Power in a package. And at 1500 pts you bring 5 more veterans with a few combi weapons and your laughing. Your absolutely laughing.
DA army: 3500pts,
admech army: 600pts
ravenguard: 565 pts
2014/08/21 00:28:28
Subject: Re:Dark Angels - 1000+ points halp me i don't even
(Unfortunately I asked about the Power Field Generator and they said it doesn't work when embarked which is disappointing.)
The rough plan is that the tanks would split into two pairs and Flat-Out towards midfield objectives. Dreadnoughts land on backfield objectives and grab their attention. Bikes Outflank. Whirlwind parks on a back objective
Is anything in that list terrible? I don't have much time to paint or model anything else, and it's a WYSIWYG tournament. I still need to paint (or at least assemble) one Drop Pod, the Black Knights, and maybe some bolter dudes before August 30th.
Other options ready to go:
* Predator with all Lascannons
* Deathwing squad with any heavy weapon but no assault weapons
* Chaplain in Terminator Armor
* Techmarine
Things I could maybe paint:
* Two Ravenwing Landspeeders with Heavy Bolters and Assault Cannons
* Another box of Black Knights in the mail
* A few more Ravenwing bikes
* Belial
Would any of that be much better than my current list? I'm worried about MC's like Wraithlords because I haven't played against them yet. So the Lascannon Predator is really tempting to fill that role. Yes I know a LR Crusader would be awesome but that's not gonna happen this month. I'm also thinking a Vindicator would be fun in this list too.
Your list is illegal.
Black Knights have a min size of 3, not of 2.
Plasma pistols SUCK. I know Raphael comes modeled with one, but cut that off and replace it with something less expensive.
Don't mix the weapons in your devastator squads.
Also, razorbacks with las cannons are imo poor transports. They are fragile, expensive and long range - and you put guys with flamers inside that need to get close.
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2014/08/21 14:09:01
Subject: Dark Angels - 1000+ points halp me i don't even
Your list is illegal.
Black Knights have a min size of 3, not of 2.
The Huntmaster is the third.
Thairne wrote: Plasma pistols SUCK. I know Raphael comes modeled with one, but cut that off and replace it with something less expensive.
You're right of course. WYSIWYG for this tournament; I'll replace the model with something else next month.
Thairne wrote: Don't mix the weapons in your devastator squads.
Unfortunately I have only one Lascannon, so Krak missiles are filling in. The Lascannon Predator would be about the same cost, so I'm considering swapping that in.
Thairne wrote: Also, razorbacks with las cannons are imo poor transports. They are fragile, expensive and long range - and you put guys with flamers inside that need to get close.
That's a good point. Maybe I'll shuffle the Tactical squads around to line up the engagement ranges.
I did OK at that tournament last August and another last weekend, placing near the middle of the pack in both, which I'm satisfied with playing a Codex that everyone says is weak.
There's another bigger 1863 point tournament coming up in March. The custom missions are not yet announced, but last year they were just a few objectives and bonuses for Slay the Warlord.
I've created a list that extends the ideas above, centered around mechanized greenwing with the dakka banner. I do now have a Land Raider Crusader and Ravenwing Command Squad as well.
Spoiler:
+++ 2015 (1859pts) +++
++ Dark Angels: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++
The big idea is that the Dakka banner rides in the Land Raider next to a Rhino and/or Razorback, while the Librarian rides with the small bike squad providing all with the power field generator. The Interrogator-Chaplain rides with the Black Knights to beatstick their warlord or whatever. Other tactical squads secure objectives.
I'm worried about things like Knights, Flyers, and Demolisher Cannons. What else should this list worry about?
My big dilemma is whether building an entire list around the dakka banner is viable, or if I should replace a tactilol squad or two with units outside of the banner bubble. I still have the following models I could swap in, mostly painted:
Spoiler:
* Librarian, Techmarine, Captain, and Chaplain (old Asmodai) without bikes but who takes them without bikes amirite?
* Another drop pod (and plans to get another since odd numbers are better.)
* TWO dreadnoughts both with Multi-melta and power fists. I love these in drop pods but they didn't make the cut.
* Lascannon Predator
* Devastator squad mostly with missile launchers
* Some jerk tactilol terminators, and terminator chaplain. Belial is basecoated.
* the other Dark Vengeance models (librarian, master, terminators, interrogator-chaplain)
* Whirlwind (:V)
* Vindacare assassin
* These are unpainted: More bolter dudes, sergeants, and veterans with a variety of weapons
First thing that comes to mind - if you want to create a strong list, avoid Tac Marines.
They are inferior to bikes in any and all ways, especially when centered around a Dakka Banner. You sinkl WAY to much points into tacticals. Everyone takes minimum troops for a reason.
Drop the Flamer on the Command Squad. You will never want to leave the Raider, because anyone will focus them the very second they are out there.
Not getting Mastery Level 2 is imo a crime - you pay 85 pts for 1 power and 1 warp charge.. where 35 more would double those benefits.
The Int Chap would fare very well with a Mace of Redemption if you want to clobber stuff with him.
Never take Plasma Guns on Bikes. For the same cost, Black Knights are just way better.
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2015/01/28 07:15:26
Subject: Re:Dark Angels - 1000+ points halp me i don't even
The idea of the above list was sort of a razorback spam, but I can see now why bikes work so much better with the dakka banner.
I created a new list and played it tonight against my friend's Dark Eldar. It was his idea to play a Relic mission which was a p big mistake because this list was basically made for that mission. My command squad grabbed it and stayed inside the Land Raider until he gave up trying to beat both 4++ PFG saves.
He did give me a third drop pod, and I'm painting up some more bikes, including two biker librarians (tho I may have to proxy my bike chaplain for a while.)
What Psychic decks work best for bike librarians? Go for Invisibility or take more reliable Divination? Maybe Pyromancy to leverage mobility?
Even with five mobile multi-meltas I'm still worried about lack of anti-tank but I just don't see where to squeeze it in with the models I have in my collection.
With the dakka banner and two powerfield generators, this list is very DAngel gimmicky. I considered going full gimmick by adding Ezekiel for the Conclave formation. Crazy idea?
Spoiler:
++ Dark Angels: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) (1859 of 1863pts) ++
You lack any kind of anti air though. I always feel like Mortis Pattern Dreads are, even though FW, a fair choice you cannot argue against.
Also consider Sammael - that way you could "save" yourself all those Tacticals and invest the points in, say, the conclave or some Black Knights.
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2015/02/19 06:40:17
Subject: Dark Angels - 1000+ points halp me i don't even
You lack any kind of anti air though. I always feel like Mortis Pattern Dreads are, even though FW, a fair choice you cannot argue against.
I'm considering allying in Imperial Guard to gain a flyer or two. Is the Vendetta worth its points? Is there another battle brother I should consider to plug this hole?
Also consider Sammael - that way you could "save" yourself all those Tacticals and invest the points in, say, the conclave or some Black Knights.
I'll prolly buy Sammeal soon enough. But I'm actually considering replacing one or both of those dreadnoughts with Drop Pod tactical squads to gain Objective Secured. It's rare for timed tournament games to go past three turns, so I think they can flip an objective in one turn that the dreads cannot. The dreads would certainly be better for wrecking stuff through turn 5 in a full game tho. Is this logic sound? Is it lame to plan for only 3 turns?
you can get solid anti air from the dedereo dreadnaught new from forgeworld. he used to be from space crusade but now he rolls as a full fledged resin model. you get less shots than the mortis but you get better range and improved BS you also pickup a free whirlwind scorpius missle launcher which is nice. and yes he has POTMS
DA army: 3500pts,
admech army: 600pts
ravenguard: 565 pts
2015/02/19 08:45:11
Subject: Dark Angels - 1000+ points halp me i don't even
You can use a vindicere assassin in 7th edition if you want.
Get the Officio Assassinorium Dataslate (it's on Black Library's page).
Essentially an assassinorium detachment is a seperate detachment of one elite slot - an assassin.
Vindiceres are just as lethal as they ever were - arguably more so. They can easily snipe characters and heavy weapons out of squads, and their exitus rifles pack a ridiculous BS8, S10, AP2, Ignores Cover when firing the turbo-penetrator for antitank work...
Termagants expended for the Hive Mind: ~2835
2015/02/19 18:15:08
Subject: Dark Angels - 1000+ points halp me i don't even
I ran the list above in today's tournament. I did well enough for Dark Angels, but also saw room for improvement.
After collecting only DAngles for decades, I'm adding Skitarii, starting with the minimum two Troops. The bare Rangers will probably Scout and snipe, while the Arc Vanguard will ride in the other (yet to be purchased) Land Raider. To make room for all that, I've dropped one PFG bike Librarian, the Dreadnought, and one of the Tactilol pods. I'll miss having two Librarians, but these additions are probably more valuable.
Is anything misplaced here? It's tough to balance all the melta and plasma throughout.
And yeah I may get a new Codex: Dark Angels in a couple weeks that will upend much of this.
Spoiler:
+++ 2015Q2 Crusader Skitarii (1850pts) +++
++ Dark Angels: Codex (2013) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++
3000pts
500 pts
Shine bright like Iyanden 
