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The Unremembered Empire, where four primarchs are presented in the most uninteresting way imaginable, that stupid little rant I went off on was after reading it. Vulkan lives and my mind died.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Pick a bit of Space Wolves Mary Sue fluff, all of it.

This pretty much. The fluff for them is almost universally awful. They try to be too many things at once, many of them contradictory, and all turned up to 11. Firing artillery by smell. Wolf Guard wielding Wolf Claws with their Wolf Tooth Necklace while riding gigantic Wolves. The whole "our Rune Priests totes aren't psykers, they use the native power of Fenris" schtick. The idea that they're highly analytical cunning super soldiers who use the imagery of wild berzerkers to fool their foes while...simultaneously still being wild berzerkers who do stupid **** like crash thunderhawks for kicks and giggles. The conflicting nature of their supposedly dark and brooding mission of being the "Emperor's Executioners" but also being total party bro's looking for for the little guy, etc.

It's all just...awful.

What are perpetuals? Is that some new crap from 7th or something introduced via Black Library?

Basically anything ultramarine. I'm not anti poster boys, but they're abilities (and resources) seem far in excess of other chapters.

Though any space marine fluff is full if losses of marines, with no real accounting of the time it takes to replace them. Regardless of technology and training it still takes time

 Sidstyler wrote:
What are perpetuals? Is that some new crap from 7th or something introduced via Black Library?

They're essentially immortals introduced in the Horus Heresy series, when they die they just come back shortly after regardless of how they die, there was a scene in Betrayer where one got burned to a cinder only to be stood behind his killer, perfectly fine moments later. The primarch Vulkan and Olanius Pius are perpetuals

I loathe every word of perpetual fluff, I hate that in a series where we know for the most part from the start who will live and die they have to make even more of the cast unkillable.

It's so hard to get excited in an epic battle scene where you know that none of the key players will die or will just come back.

 Selym wrote:

Da Butcha wrote:

Oddnerd wrote:
for me it is the sudden rapid rate at which orks grow. I get the spore thing, let them be hard to eradicate, but them growing overnight is asinine and not necessary for the fluff to work.

I'm not aware of this one. Where did this show up?

Most of the fluff on Orks of which I am aware, the spores take a LONG time to produce new Yoofs. So long, in fact, that the Imperium doesn't even have a concrete understanding of it ("I thought we killed all of them years ago?"). The stuff I have read, the spores settle and sprout, but the 'nodules' take a long time to develop into orks. Admittedly, the ork scrambles out almost fully grown with all of his 'inborn skillz", but from spore to ork is quite a while.

I can't remember where I got it from, but orks are supposed to take around ten years to grow to adulthood (human height). And then spend the rest of their lives trying to be bigger, greener and meaner.

It's in the new book, and frankly it bothers me to.

It says that a random group of Green Skins left alone can turn into a gigantic horde in (and I quote) a matter of weeks.

Ork shift crashes and a few Orks escape into the under-hive? You'll have enough Orks coming out of the bowels of the city, in a few weeks, to over-run the defenders and subsequently the planet.

10 years to reach Ork maturity is frankly a super fast rate for the size of Orks, and made sense. This new fluff about Orks shoring the numbers up from hundreds to hundreds of thousands in the span of maybe a month? That's nuts.

 farmersboy wrote:
Anything where there is talk of Space Marines rolling around or slinging a sword across their backs, the author clearly forgetting there's a chuffing great power generator on the marines back.

With slinging swords over your back there is also the issue that it may look cool but is extremely impractical as you would never be able to draw your sword unless you had really, really long arms. I just can't believe how many videogames, movies and artworks get this basic fact of physics wrong. You can't draw a sword from your back, ever. Swords were never worn on the back in real history.

Now with this pet peeve out of the way, I must say that despite all the horrible and silly 40k fluff out there, C.S. Goto's work still is the absolute epitome of nonsense.

I really dislike the Horus Heresy novel series as a whole.
More specifically Perpetuals, the Primarchs and the whole messing around in Ultramar thing they're doing.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Either the GK/SoB incident, or the entirety of the lore behind the Sons of Malice.

Oh god I hate the idea of Malal, and the later incarnation of the same idea, Malice. It's a Chaos God for people who want to be so edgy and hipster they're more chaotic than chaos.

#2edgy4chaos

Though even ignoring the Malal nonsense, it's a disgusting power fantasy with misogynistic undertones-- it's worse, in my opinion, than the Grey Knight fluff in how it treats Sisters of Battle (also Inquisitors), and is little more than some gakky writer making a God Mode Villain Sue, to use TVTropes language.


Also I'm okay with some of the HH books-- A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns come to mind. Most of them do suck though, and I preferred it when they were just myths and legends instead of poorly written realities.

Not really a single piece of fluff, but you'll have to let me off because I've been harboring this hatred for too long.

Khorne.

Older Khorne was so much cooler than new khorne. He was all about martial prowess, being the best you can be, not letting yourself be weak, even being honorable and not killing those who are unarmed or weak. Nowadays he's all 'HURR DURR BLUD N SKULS', and it kind of ruins chaos for me sometimes. It makes me think why would anyone actually turn to khorne, because you're just going to turn into a blood-crazed madman who kill themselves when there is no more blood to be spilt. Very silly.

Not a single piece.

Everything on Malal and Space Wolves.

Vulkan lives nearly made me quit the hobby. Shoot him into the sun there he is gone, then the followup where he is insane then this guy has a magic ball in his pants he can use to fix him. Good thing both 1 in a galaxy items are on a planet together. VULKAN DIED!!! He is a rotten corpse that moves thats all. Thank typhus your rotten primarch lives.

 Toastaster wrote:
Not really a single piece of fluff, but you'll have to let me off because I've been harboring this hatred for too long.

Khorne.

Older Khorne was so much cooler than new khorne. He was all about martial prowess, being the best you can be, not letting yourself be weak, even being honorable and not killing those who are unarmed or weak. Nowadays he's all 'HURR DURR BLUD N SKULS', and it kind of ruins chaos for me sometimes. It makes me think why would anyone actually turn to khorne, because you're just going to turn into a blood-crazed madman who kill themselves when there is no more blood to be spilt. Very silly.

Khorne was always about senseless slaughter....

The idea that Khorne was once about honorable combat and held disdain for slaughtering the hapless weak is myth. I've never seen any material in the old fluff that stated that Khorne didn't like butchering the weak or unarmed, quite the opposite in fact.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Toastaster wrote:
Not really a single piece of fluff, but you'll have to let me off because I've been harboring this hatred for too long.

Khorne.

Older Khorne was so much cooler than new khorne. He was all about martial prowess, being the best you can be, not letting yourself be weak, even being honorable and not killing those who are unarmed or weak. Nowadays he's all 'HURR DURR BLUD N SKULS', and it kind of ruins chaos for me sometimes. It makes me think why would anyone actually turn to khorne, because you're just going to turn into a blood-crazed madman who kill themselves when there is no more blood to be spilt. Very silly.

Khorne was always about senseless slaughter....

The idea that Khorne was once about honorable combat and held disdain for slaughtering the hapless weak is myth. I've never seen any material in the old fluff that stated that Khorne didn't like butchering the weak or unarmed, quite the opposite in fact.

I've been around since RT and played chaos back then. I always remember Khorne as being senseless blood letting. "He cares not from whence the blood flows" kinda thing. Like Khorne fist bumping Kharn for killing his own men because, hey, it's killing and killing is good.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Toastaster wrote:
Not really a single piece of fluff, but you'll have to let me off because I've been harboring this hatred for too long.

Khorne.

Older Khorne was so much cooler than new khorne. He was all about martial prowess, being the best you can be, not letting yourself be weak, even being honorable and not killing those who are unarmed or weak. Nowadays he's all 'HURR DURR BLUD N SKULS', and it kind of ruins chaos for me sometimes. It makes me think why would anyone actually turn to khorne, because you're just going to turn into a blood-crazed madman who kill themselves when there is no more blood to be spilt. Very silly.

Khorne was always about senseless slaughter....

The idea that Khorne was once about honorable combat and held disdain for slaughtering the hapless weak is myth. I've never seen any material in the old fluff that stated that Khorne didn't like butchering the weak or unarmed, quite the opposite in fact.

My old Epic 40K rulebook disagrees. It states Khorne is a martial god who dislikes those who kill the helpless, and the Flesh Hounds of Khorne were originally created to hunt down the followers of Khorne who deliberately killed non-combatants.

Then 2nd Edition 40K happened, and all that changed.

squidhills wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Toastaster wrote:
Not really a single piece of fluff, but you'll have to let me off because I've been harboring this hatred for too long.

Khorne.

Older Khorne was so much cooler than new khorne. He was all about martial prowess, being the best you can be, not letting yourself be weak, even being honorable and not killing those who are unarmed or weak. Nowadays he's all 'HURR DURR BLUD N SKULS', and it kind of ruins chaos for me sometimes. It makes me think why would anyone actually turn to khorne, because you're just going to turn into a blood-crazed madman who kill themselves when there is no more blood to be spilt. Very silly.

Khorne was always about senseless slaughter....

The idea that Khorne was once about honorable combat and held disdain for slaughtering the hapless weak is myth. I've never seen any material in the old fluff that stated that Khorne didn't like butchering the weak or unarmed, quite the opposite in fact.

My old Epic 40K rulebook disagrees. It states Khorne is a martial god who dislikes those who kill the helpless, and the Flesh Hounds of Khorne were originally created to hunt down the followers of Khorne who deliberately killed non-combatants.

Then 2nd Edition 40K happened, and all that changed.

Then it's simply a discrepancy between Epic and the RT Rulebook.

Maximus Bitch wrote:
The most ridiculous piece of fluff I've come across is that of Imperial censors removing information from a library.

How? By bringing some flamethrowers to the library and burning the books then and there. What?!

They also burn innocent scribes who happen to witness the burning. Double what?!

Can't they just cart the books away? Sometimes I wonder if 40k should be taken seriously or not.

Knowledge is power, guard it well.

 Melissia wrote:

Though even ignoring the Malal nonsense, it's a disgusting power fantasy with misogynistic undertones

Are you talking about the SIsters and that Inquisitor getting rekd by the Sons of Malice and lulzily sacrificed?

With slinging swords over your back there is also the issue that it may look cool but is extremely impractical as you would never be able to draw your sword unless you had really, really long arms. I just can't believe how many videogames, movies and artworks get this basic fact of physics wrong. You can't draw a sword from your back, ever. Swords were never worn on the back in real history.

Uh, actually, Arnold draws a sword from over his shoulder in the original Conan movie. It's quite possible, from the standpoint of physics.

You don't attach the bottom end of the scabbard to your belt, it hangs freely, so when you draw the sword, it's a straight pull from your shoulder.

Of course, in 40K, you could just magnetize the thing to your armor and pull it off with a good tug, but let's not let practicality get in the way of our claims of impossible actions. Yes, there's a fusion reactor on your back. It's also generally square. Slap your sword on the flat side with a magnet, then pull it off when you need it.

Wow, lot more SW hate in this thread than I figured there would be.

The Space Wolves started out good, and then the people who write SW fiction ruined them. They became stupid a long, long time ago.

SW, in fact, are probably one of the root causes for the backlash SM fans get, because the fiction around the SW is so god-awful.

 Psienesis wrote:

With slinging swords over your back there is also the issue that it may look cool but is extremely impractical as you would never be able to draw your sword unless you had really, really long arms. I just can't believe how many videogames, movies and artworks get this basic fact of physics wrong. You can't draw a sword from your back, ever. Swords were never worn on the back in real history.

Uh, actually, Arnold draws a sword from over his shoulder in the original Conan movie. It's quite possible, from the standpoint of physics.

You don't attach the bottom end of the scabbard to your belt, it hangs freely, so when you draw the sword, it's a straight pull from your shoulder.

Of course, in 40K, you could just magnetize the thing to your armor and pull it off with a good tug, but let's not let practicality get in the way of our claims of impossible actions. Yes, there's a fusion reactor on your back. It's also generally square. Slap your sword on the flat side with a magnet, then pull it off when you need it.

Or just attach to your hip like a sane person.

Space Marines? Sane people?

This is 40K. In an age of madness, only the insane may prosper, and only the prosperous may truly judge what is sane.

Tell that to the Salamanders and Raptors.

The Salamanders are hardly sane. Their madness is simply more socially-outgoing.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Space Wolves started out good, and then the people who write SW fiction ruined them. They became stupid a long, long time ago.

SW, in fact, are probably one of the root causes for the backlash SM fans get, because the fiction around the SW is so god-awful.

My hate comes from the Ultra-spehss, GK, and mattard.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

Though even ignoring the Malal nonsense, it's a disgusting power fantasy with misogynistic undertones

Are you talking about the SIsters and that Inquisitor getting rekd by the Sons of Malice and lulzily sacrificed?

Apparently killing Sisters of Battle is misogynistic.Or at least that's the only explanation I can come up with.

 Selym wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The Space Wolves started out good, and then the people who write SW fiction ruined them. They became stupid a long, long time ago.

SW, in fact, are probably one of the root causes for the backlash SM fans get, because the fiction around the SW is so god-awful.

My hate comes from the Ultra-spehss, GK, and mattard.

It didn't used to be that way :/

They had decency. They were just vikings in space. Not just werewolves.

In fact all the chapters are like that now. They put too much emphasis on their outer traits, like as if it is like a 8 year olds perspective. If I showed someone a blood angel they would notice the pale skin and teeth and say, "thats a vampire." If I showed them a space wolf. "Thats a Werewolf." etc.

They put too much emphasis on certain things and left behind what made them interesting. Now its just fantasy in space!

I think that all the things happening in the lore is just bad writers. As it has slowly started to edge itself towards from subpar to terrible.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Now its just fantasy in space!

This is pretty much exactly the opposite of how 40k lore development has happened.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Salamanders are hardly sane. Their madness is simply more socially-outgoing.

Everything and nothing may be canon in 40K, but those Salamander lemons you're so fond of reading are still just fan-fiction, m8.