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I'm actually going to go for the depiction of SoBs in the Ciaphas Cain novels. Specifically, that one Sister who drinks and gambles.

Whilst the Bloodtide is pretty awful in terms of how it depicts the Sisters, it at least has the hidden silver lining of basically saying that some Sisters can resist powerful Daemonic corruption on their own, whilst the GK need blood magic to do the same. And most people seem to agree that it's flawed anyway, so it hasn't really damaged perceptions too badly.

What gets me about the Cain Sister is that she flies in the face if the ordered, ultra-disciplined soldiers who are presented as the Imperium's most zealous force that we see depicted in the codex. And then, because the Cain books are very popular and the SoB codex fluff is lesser-known, people read it and think that that's what the SoB are actually like, it really undersells how very indoctrinated they all are.

Admittedly, it's probably not the worst piece of fluff out there, but it's the one that annoys me the most.

 Troike wrote:
I'm actually going to go for the depiction of SoBs in the Ciaphas Cain novels. Specifically, that one Sister who drinks and gambles.

Whilst the Bloodtide is pretty awful in terms of how it depicts the Sisters, it at least has the hidden silver lining of basically saying that some Sisters can resist power Daemonic corruption on their own, whilst the GK need blood magic to do the same. And most people seem to agree that it's flawed anyway, so it hasn't really damaged perceptions too badly.

What gets me about the Cain Sister is that she flies in the face if the ordered, ultra-disciplined soldiers who are presented as the Imperium's most zealous force that we see depicted in the codex. And then, because the Cain books are very popular and the SoB codex fluff is lesser-known, people read it and think that that's what the SoB are actually like, it really undersells how very indoctrinated they all are.

Admittedly, it's probably not the worst piece of fluff out there, but it's the one that annoys me the most.

Agreed fully. More misunderstandings have come from the Cain novels than anywhere else. (That I've heard.)
SOB are supposed to be so fanatically self denying and boarderline insane that they get acts of faith. That doesn't come from lack of self denial and drinking and gambling.

The as for mentioned fluff of Draigo, that is stupid and not needed.

Some of the newcron fluff. I don't really mind the way you can have your own leader and what not, What I don't like is that they don't feel like the masters of the material realm. They just feel a little dimmed down from the old codex. I don't hate the newcrons, just not as excited about them as I used to.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

With slinging swords over your back there is also the issue that it may look cool but is extremely impractical as you would never be able to draw your sword unless you had really, really long arms. I just can't believe how many videogames, movies and artworks get this basic fact of physics wrong. You can't draw a sword from your back, ever. Swords were never worn on the back in real history.

Well, it's certainly possible, just very impractical due to the draw being slower and leaving you wide open.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
misogynistic undertones

lol

Everything the blood angels name with a prefix of "blood"

Blood strike missiles
Blood shard bolts
Bloodsong
Blood Champion

The list goes on.....

PastelAvenger wrote:
Everything the blood angels name with a prefix of "blood"

What they need to do is create a chapter named the Blood Wolves. Then they can prefix everything with blood AND wolf.

PastelAvenger wrote:
Everything the blood angels name with a prefix of "blood"

Blood strike missiles
Blood shard bolts
Bloodsong
Blood Champion

The list goes on.....

Then there is the Tyranids with the word Hive.

 ashcroft wrote:

PastelAvenger wrote:
Everything the blood angels name with a prefix of "blood"

What they need to do is create a chapter named the Blood Wolves. Then they can prefix everything with blood AND wolf.

Okay, that made me laugh.

Tyranid planet eating.

So a hive fleet reaches a planet and consumes an entire biosphere as growth mass, that must result in a stupendously huge fleet.

Yet companies of marines still defeat them.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

PastelAvenger wrote:
Everything the blood angels name with a prefix of "blood"

Blood strike missiles
Blood shard bolts
Bloodsong
Blood Champion

The list goes on.....

Then there is the Tyranids with the word Hive.

Eh, there's the Hive Tyrant (make's sense, it's the leader of the Hive), Hive Guard (again, makes sense, defends Hive structures), the Hive Commander rule (makes sense in its context) and the Hive Crone (the only one that's kinda oddly named).

They didn't go about doing stuff like renaming Dreadnought Close Combat Weapons just to add "blood" in or whatnot.

The Hive Fleet and Hive Mind too. But yes, they do not reach the levels of the Blood Angels and Space Wolves. You can have a Space Wolf Wolf Lord with Jaws of the world Wolf riding a Thunderwolf joined by a group of Thunderwolf Calvary, helped out by Canis Wolfborn, commanding Thunderwolf Calvary, Fenrisian Wolf packs, Wolf Guard, Lone Wolves and some Cyber Wolves.

I'm sure I am missing some Wolfiness.

He can't have Jaws of the World Wolf. He is accompanied by a Rune Priest with it.

He does, however, have both a Wolftooth Necklace and a Wolftail Talisman.

And two Wolf Claws.

 Troike wrote:
I'm actually going to go for the depiction of SoBs in the Ciaphas Cain novels. Specifically, that one Sister who drinks and gambles.

Whilst the Bloodtide is pretty awful in terms of how it depicts the Sisters, it at least has the hidden silver lining of basically saying that some Sisters can resist powerful Daemonic corruption on their own, whilst the GK need blood magic to do the same. And most people seem to agree that it's flawed anyway, so it hasn't really damaged perceptions too badly.

What gets me about the Cain Sister is that she flies in the face if the ordered, ultra-disciplined soldiers who are presented as the Imperium's most zealous force that we see depicted in the codex. And then, because the Cain books are very popular and the SoB codex fluff is lesser-known, people read it and think that that's what the SoB are actually like, it really undersells how very indoctrinated they all are.

Admittedly, it's probably not the worst piece of fluff out there, but it's the one that annoys me the most.

I must admit after reading James Swallow works on SoB the last thing I thought they would do would be gambling and drinking (or doing anything fun related). Seeing one play cards to past time during their free time (They still need a bit of free time) would be ok. But, she would play a boring game like a religious version of solitary were you must match saints with their epic deads or something like that. In Hammer and Andvil, you learn that they only use «sanctioned» curse words when they are angry. Then again a single Sister with gambling and drinking habit is not so stupid, you just know that she's got nice little place on repentia squad. Cain himself is a jerk, a coward and selfish man who happens to be commissar. If a commissar can be so low, perhapse a sister can too (yet I do think that a Sister would be much, much less prone than a commissar to such issues.)

A Sister who behaved in such a manner would never be seen in public.

 Psienesis wrote:
A Sister who behaved in such a manner would never be seen in public.

Or be alive.

Oh, I think she'd be alive. The Sisterhood has some pretty... impressive... "corrective training" methods.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
A Sister who behaved in such a manner would never be seen in public.

Or be alive.

haoh!

epronovost wrote:
I must admit after reading James Swallow works on SoB the last thing I thought they would do would be gambling and drinking (or doing anything fun related).

Yeah, Swallow was a pretty good reflection of studio SoB. Though, in my opinion, the codex Sisters are presented as even more indoctrinated.

epronovost wrote:
Cain himself is a jerk, a coward and selfish man who happens to be commissar. If a commissar can be so low, perhapse a sister can too (yet I do think that a Sister would be much, much less prone than a commissar to such issues.)

Eh... The thing with Cain is that it's very doubtful that he could develop that mindset in the first place, were he in studio fluff. In codexes, the Scholas are extremely heavy on the brainwashing. In comparison, Sandy Mitchell has Scholas that are more easygoing. And the thing with the Sisters is that they are chosen from Schola pupils who have particularly bought into the brainwashing.

In regards to the Cain & Sister of Battle issue. I think it's important to keep in perspective that there are literally thousands of worlds, trillions upon trillions of humans.

Even if that sister represents one in 100,000 who managed to accept the indoctrination in a more relaxed manner. Keeping in mind they are on the fringe of the galaxy and she is essentially retired. Then that's not beyond the bounds of unreasonable.

Personally I enjoy the Cain books, as they often portray a very human aspect of the 40k scene. Grimdark for the sake of it gets old pretty quick.

What I will say though, is the entire setting desperately needs a central point of reference. An internal room that is filled with pinboard & documents stating how each race, setting, faction and individual is to be portrayed. It already occurs in multiple video game companies, I don't understand why it's so hard to accomplish for a multi-million dollar table top company.

Vrashnar wrote:
In regards to the Cain & Sister of Battle issue. I think it's important to keep in perspective that there are literally thousands of worlds, trillions upon trillions of humans.

But the thing with the Sisters is that they've had memories of their past lives erased, been put through a heinous amont of brainwashing, been specifically selected on the basis that they took to this brainwashing notably well compared to their fellow Schola students, and then gone off to train and live with others who have been similarly brainwashed. And this is what makes the Sisters special, what gives them their edge in 40K. That they believe in their faith so hard.

For a Sister to just "losen up on" this extremely rigorous mindset and lifestyle, to start drinking and having casual affairs doesn't really fit. Did... She just decided let go of a lifetime of indoctrination?

There's also the additional issue that a Sister wouldn't even be at the Schola to begin with. Sisters don't train Novices at Scholas, Schola students leave to train with the SoB directly if they are selected to be Novices.

 Troike wrote:

Vrashnar wrote:
In regards to the Cain & Sister of Battle issue. I think it's important to keep in perspective that there are literally thousands of worlds, trillions upon trillions of humans.

But the thing with the Sisters is that they've had memories of their past lives erased, been put through a heinous amont of brainwashing, been specifically selected on the basis that they took to this brainwashing notably well compared to their fellow Schola students, and then gone off to train and live with others who have been similarly brainwashed. And this is what makes the Sisters special, what gives them their edge in 40K. That they believe in their faith so hard.

For a Sister to just "losen up on" this extremely rigorous mindset and lifestyle, to start drinking and having casual affairs doesn't really fit. Did... She just decided let go of a lifetime of indoctrination?

There's also the additional issue that a Sister wouldn't even be at the Schola to begin with. Sisters don't train Novices at Scholas, Schola students leave to train with the SoB directly if they are selected to be Novices.

To put this into an analogy, It'd be like changing a Bloodletters personality to that of a Daemonette.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
To put this into an analogy, It'd be like changing a Bloodletters personality to that of a Daemonette.

Yeah, bascially. Good analogy.

Now now, Troike.

Everything is up to interpretation, nothing is true or false, propaganda, myths legends and half-truths canon is a fallacyasjsjhfi8gesr9geprjfscsdkcvsdhsdzfsdgsdjfsufhzsifsiodfsdifsjd

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Now now, Troike.

Everything is up to interpretation, nothing is true or false, propaganda, myths legends and half-truths canon is a fallacyasjsjhfi8gesr9geprjfscsdkcvsdhsdzfsdgsdjfsufhzsifsiodfsdifsjd

There is a baby stuck in a well who is fighting balrogs?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Now now, Troike.

Everything is up to interpretation

Sure. Take the Mitchell Sister if you want. My issue is that she doesnt fit nearly as well with the "hyped-up relgious zealot" theme as the codex Sisters do, and that's what the Sisters are meant to be all about. Also, again, that one Cain Sister has kind of stifled the codex lore, since now some people just assume that she's a decent representaiton of all SoB fluff rather than looking into wider SoB fluff. And, really, it's fair bet that Mitchell wanted her there more as a joke than anything, yet she can be taken quite seriously by some fans.

Nooooo, no no. How the Sisters function as an organization is a matter of interpretation. Some people imagine them as being hyper-zealous warrior-robots, others view them as sorority-girls and others in-bewteen.

Alllllll viewpoints are equally valid and represented in the fluff, it's just a matter of how you choose to view it.

I already acknowledged that.

My issues, as I've said, is that I don't see that Cain Sister as fitting with the base themes of the Sisters very well, and that the portrayal has (to some extent) "edged out" the codex fluff.

Edit: also, I don't think that it goes so far as to "equally support" all viewpoints, at least not to the extent of "sorority girls". As far as I'm aware, all sources have the Sisters overall, as massive zealots. That's never really thrown away completely, even the Cain Sister was noted to be something of an exception.

You're not really a 4Chan resident.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
You're not really a 4Chan resident.

What...?

(I go there daily, actually).

De nada.