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 Wyzilla wrote:
Don't know if I've already posted this in the thread, but I'd add the failure Blood Ravens to this list. They're only slightly better than the Soul Drinkers, but are still pretty terrible.

I like the fluff that they can remember who they were before indoctrination.

Caused some problems with the Grey Knight lore though. They are the only SM chapter that can't be mind wiped. As such the Grey Knights and inquisition are great friends of theirs. Seriously Gabriel Angelo's told the Inqusition to exterminatus his own planet.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Don't know if I've already posted this in the thread, but I'd add the failure Blood Ravens to this list. They're only slightly better than the Soul Drinkers, but are still pretty terrible.

I like the fluff that they can remember who they were before indoctrination.

Caused some problems with the Grey Knight lore though. They are the only SM chapter that can't be mind wiped. As such the Grey Knights and inquisition are great friends of theirs. Seriously Gabriel Angelo's told the Inqusition to exterminatus his own planet.

Remembering who you were before indoctrination isn't unique to the Blood Ravens. Not at all.

 Wyzilla wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Don't know if I've already posted this in the thread, but I'd add the failure Blood Ravens to this list. They're only slightly better than the Soul Drinkers, but are still pretty terrible.

I like the fluff that they can remember who they were before indoctrination.

Caused some problems with the Grey Knight lore though. They are the only SM chapter that can't be mind wiped. As such the Grey Knights and inquisition are great friends of theirs. Seriously Gabriel Angelo's told the Inqusition to exterminatus his own planet.

Remembering who you were before indoctrination isn't unique to the Blood Ravens. Not at all.

Salamanders still maintain contact with their families after they become Astartes

What's the source for that? I'm not questioning you.. I just really want to know so I can check it out.

in fact grey knights are exceptional because they are mind wiped

 Sigvatr wrote:
Pretty much the entire fake Newcron fluff.

This...
And anything that involves Bro fisting.

BrianDavion wrote:
in fact grey knights are exceptional because they are mind wiped

Ah, but not *soul* wiped...


...


...Idk where I'm going with that...

Three more:

Angron - Was content believing he was a berserker that was never meant for anything other than war. Finding out he was butthurt about dad saving him at the last second was the primary reason for his fall? Pretty lamo.

Erebus - A character that could have been beautifully written...aaaaaand it's gone.

The Emperor's Children - What the feth. Seriously. What the feth.

Edit: Fourthly, perpetuals. The writer who coined this term needs to stop writing. Forever.

Angron - Was content believing he was a berserker that was never meant for anything other than war. Finding out he was butthurt about dad saving him at the last second was the primary reason for his fall? Pretty lamo.

Considering you don't seem to actually understand why..

I gotta go with Draigo. Just... Draigo. He's so unbelievably Mary Sue. He doesn't just drop kick greater daemons left and right and beat a Daemon Primarch, oh no. That wouldn't be XTREME!!! enough. He has to tag some graffiti on the Daemon Primarch's heart, before presumably tea-bagging him and giving a big thumbs up to the camera while a guitar solo plays. It wouldn't be so bad if it was done in tongue in cheek like the old fluff, but it's all in dead seriousness. The only possibly good idea in Draigo's wretched backstory (doomed SM trapped in the warp who returns out of nowhere to save the day only to be dragged back) is a lame ripoff of the million times better fluff for the Legion of the Damned.

The thing is, we've seen most of the other shoddy stuff before. Out of favor armies being a whipping boy (or girl) that get downright insulted in fluff? SoBs, Eldar, and IG have all had their turn, not to mention CSM's getting downgraded to hordes of easily killed mooks. Dumb alliances? Back in RT, there were half Eldar, half Human HYBRIDS. And while I'm not a huge fan of the newcron fluff, I can see why some people like it. But Draigo is whole new level of fail. He's nothing but "Look! My guy is betterer and coolerer than your guy, and constantly kicks your guys' butts!" It's not just bad, juvenile, and unfair to fans of other factions, it commits the ultimate sin of any story. It's boring. That's why Mary Sues are so despised in fiction. The invincible hero, who's only invincible because the writer loves and favors them, is BORING. Oh, and throw in all of Ward's UM fluff too, for the exact same reason.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Don't know if I've already posted this in the thread, but I'd add the failure Blood Ravens to this list. They're only slightly better than the Soul Drinkers, but are still pretty terrible.

At least they gave us Indrick Boreale and Captain Diomedes. Bless their hammy voice acting.

I don't mind perpetuals. I think they could have fit in the setting. The ability to come back to life in 41st Millennium is the worst curse one could have. Not even death offers you respite from the inhuman horrors and suffering. However, my issue is how they've run off with the idea and starting retconning established characters into being perpetuals.

 Frankenberry wrote:
Three more:

Angron - Was content believing he was a berserker that was never meant for anything other than war. Finding out he was butthurt about dad saving him at the last second was the primary reason for his fall? Pretty lamo.

Erebus - A character that could have been beautifully written...aaaaaand it's gone.

The Emperor's Children - What the feth. Seriously. What the feth.

Edit: Fourthly, perpetuals. The writer who coined this term needs to stop writing. Forever.

Perpetuals are what happens when Black Library passes out crack to all its writers and decides to can all its editors at the same time.

Remember when Ollanius Pius was actually interesting?

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
Three more:

Angron - Was content believing he was a berserker that was never meant for anything other than war. Finding out he was butthurt about dad saving him at the last second was the primary reason for his fall? Pretty lamo.

Erebus - A character that could have been beautifully written...aaaaaand it's gone.

The Emperor's Children - What the feth. Seriously. What the feth.

Edit: Fourthly, perpetuals. The writer who coined this term needs to stop writing. Forever.

Perpetuals are what happens when Black Library passes out crack to all its writers and decides to can all its editors at the same time.

Remember when Ollanius Pius was actually interesting?

To be fair, Pius could still be cool if they just executed it properly. I always thought a better idea for Pius is that Pius was a true son of the Emperor, fathered some time before western Rome fell and was one of the few biological children. Pius then later stands before Horus as an act of defiance for his father, then gets instantly killed for his bravery by Horus. In that moment the Emperor finally realizes that all along- the Primarchs, the Space Marines, Horus, were nothing but laboratory monsters that were by no means his true sons and sees them for the flawed creations they are. With Horus felling what may very well be his last true biological child, the Emperor lets go of everything and unleashes everything at him in a final climatic battle.

But of course, we can never get any good humanizing fluff for the Emperor that also explains where perpetuals come from.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
Three more:

Angron - Was content believing he was a berserker that was never meant for anything other than war. Finding out he was butthurt about dad saving him at the last second was the primary reason for his fall? Pretty lamo.

Erebus - A character that could have been beautifully written...aaaaaand it's gone.

The Emperor's Children - What the feth. Seriously. What the feth.

Edit: Fourthly, perpetuals. The writer who coined this term needs to stop writing. Forever.

Perpetuals are what happens when Black Library passes out crack to all its writers and decides to can all its editors at the same time.

Remember when Ollanius Pius was actually interesting?

To be fair, Pius could still be cool if they just executed it properly. I always thought a better idea for Pius is that Pius was a true son of the Emperor, fathered some time before western Rome fell and was one of the few biological children. Pius then later stands before Horus as an act of defiance for his father, then gets instantly killed for his bravery by Horus. In that moment the Emperor finally realizes that all along- the Primarchs, the Space Marines, Horus, were nothing but laboratory monsters that were by no means his true sons and sees them for the flawed creations they are. With Horus felling what may very well be his last true biological child, the Emperor lets go of everything and unleashes everything at him in a final climatic battle.

But of course, we can never get any good humanizing fluff for the Emperor that also explains where perpetuals come from.

The more sphesshul you make Pius, the less his sacrifice matters.

The point was, he was an ordinary person who saw who Horus was and tried to stop him. No personal attachments. No commitments. He had no obligation to take a stand. Yet he did anyways.

Making him a perpetual or the Emperor's son or an alligator doesn't make him cooler; it makes him boring. Imagine if they gave Batman actual superpowers to try and spice him up. It would just be dumb.

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
Three more:

Angron - Was content believing he was a berserker that was never meant for anything other than war. Finding out he was butthurt about dad saving him at the last second was the primary reason for his fall? Pretty lamo.

Erebus - A character that could have been beautifully written...aaaaaand it's gone.

The Emperor's Children - What the feth. Seriously. What the feth.

Edit: Fourthly, perpetuals. The writer who coined this term needs to stop writing. Forever.

Perpetuals are what happens when Black Library passes out crack to all its writers and decides to can all its editors at the same time.

Remember when Ollanius Pius was actually interesting?

To be fair, Pius could still be cool if they just executed it properly. I always thought a better idea for Pius is that Pius was a true son of the Emperor, fathered some time before western Rome fell and was one of the few biological children. Pius then later stands before Horus as an act of defiance for his father, then gets instantly killed for his bravery by Horus. In that moment the Emperor finally realizes that all along- the Primarchs, the Space Marines, Horus, were nothing but laboratory monsters that were by no means his true sons and sees them for the flawed creations they are. With Horus felling what may very well be his last true biological child, the Emperor lets go of everything and unleashes everything at him in a final climatic battle.

But of course, we can never get any good humanizing fluff for the Emperor that also explains where perpetuals come from.

The more sphesshul you make Pius, the less his sacrifice matters.

The point was, he was an ordinary person who saw who Horus was and tried to stop him. No personal attachments. No commitments. He had no obligation to take a stand. Yet he did anyways.

Making him a perpetual or the Emperor's son or an alligator doesn't make him cooler; it makes him boring. Imagine if they gave Batman actual superpowers to try and spice him up. It would just be dumb.

Except that Batman does have blatant super powers thanks to the ridiculous levels DC has taken him to.

 LoneLictor wrote:
The more sphesshul you make Pius, the less his sacrifice matters.

The point was, he was an ordinary person who saw who Horus was and tried to stop him. No personal attachments. No commitments. He had no obligation to take a stand. Yet he did anyways.

Making him a perpetual or the Emperor's son or an alligator doesn't make him cooler; it makes him boring. Imagine if they gave Batman actual superpowers to try and spice him up. It would just be dumb.

It goes both ways. The less sphesshul you make Pius, the less reason he has to be on Horus’ flagship of doom and destruction. Teleporting rank and file guardsmen tasked with storming chaos infested ships have never been a thing and never will be.

With Pius you have two options. Either leave him out of the story entirely, or give him a reason to be there. BL chose the latter option. That’s just how things are. Accept it and move on with your life.

Actually, I consider it to be one of the most enlightened and awesome things about 40k that the Emperor considers his lab-babies to be just as legitimate as his loin-babies.

"Born naturally or born in a test tube? I don't care, you're my child!"

Isn't that one of the most uplifting things you could write?

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Actually, I consider it to be one of the most enlightened and awesome things about 40k that the Emperor considers his lab-babies to be just as legitimate as his loin-babies.

"Born naturally or born in a test tube? I don't care, you're my child!"

Isn't that one of the most uplifting things you could write?

Considering how he treated the Thunder Warriors, it's doubtful that he actually gave a damn about the Astartes or their Primarchs. Possibly loved Horus and Sanguinius, but it really doesn't seem like it.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Actually, I consider it to be one of the most enlightened and awesome things about 40k that the Emperor considers his lab-babies to be just as legitimate as his loin-babies.

"Born naturally or born in a test tube? I don't care, you're my child!"

Isn't that one of the most uplifting things you could write?

Considering how he treated the Thunder Warriors, it's doubtful that he actually gave a damn about the Astartes or their Primarchs. Possibly loved Horus and Sanguinius, but it really doesn't seem like it.

The Emperor viewed the Primarchs as expendable as rumor has it that after the Primarchs were to have conquered the galaxy for the Emperor, there was no place planned for them to exist in the post Crusade era. The ruling body was rumored to be completely made up of regular humans.

I believe the "love" for Horus was created as an excuse for why the Emperor didn't just psychically crush Horus to death in his armor the moment he saw him in the final battle.

Hang on, weren't their supposedly twenty primarch sized living quarters built in the emperor's palace.
I always assumed the emperor was autistic, tha he simply didn't feel emotions on the same level as normal people.

Newcrons

 the shrouded lord wrote:
Hang on, weren't their supposedly twenty primarch sized living quarters built in the emperor's palace.
I always assumed the emperor was autistic, tha he simply didn't feel emotions on the same level as normal people.

Considering how he treated some of his sons by completely ignoring how they felt, didn't really connect with many of them and essentially caused like at least 1/4th because of his attitude's alone to rebel because of his treatments. Yeah I'd agree to that, he was a poor parent who simply planned strong powerful children to lead essentially lead murderous rampages across the galaxy to unite humanity.

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 LoneLictor wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
Three more:

Angron - Was content believing he was a berserker that was never meant for anything other than war. Finding out he was butthurt about dad saving him at the last second was the primary reason for his fall? Pretty lamo.

Erebus - A character that could have been beautifully written...aaaaaand it's gone.

The Emperor's Children - What the feth. Seriously. What the feth.

Edit: Fourthly, perpetuals. The writer who coined this term needs to stop writing. Forever.

Perpetuals are what happens when Black Library passes out crack to all its writers and decides to can all its editors at the same time.

Remember when Ollanius Pius was actually interesting?

To be fair, Pius could still be cool if they just executed it properly. I always thought a better idea for Pius is that Pius was a true son of the Emperor, fathered some time before western Rome fell and was one of the few biological children. Pius then later stands before Horus as an act of defiance for his father, then gets instantly killed for his bravery by Horus. In that moment the Emperor finally realizes that all along- the Primarchs, the Space Marines, Horus, were nothing but laboratory monsters that were by no means his true sons and sees them for the flawed creations they are. With Horus felling what may very well be his last true biological child, the Emperor lets go of everything and unleashes everything at him in a final climatic battle.

But of course, we can never get any good humanizing fluff for the Emperor that also explains where perpetuals come from.

The more sphesshul you make Pius, the less his sacrifice matters.

The point was, he was an ordinary person who saw who Horus was and tried to stop him. No personal attachments. No commitments. He had no obligation to take a stand. Yet he did anyways.

Making him a perpetual or the Emperor's son or an alligator doesn't make him cooler; it makes him boring. Imagine if they gave Batman actual superpowers to try and spice him up. It would just be dumb.

To be fair, if Pius were an alligator he probably would have won that fight. Those things are terrifying.

Ok so last night i was reading up on the steel legions of armageddon. I prefer them to DKOK but alas theres only like 12 different models so I wont be collecting them.

One thing I did notice however was commissar yarrick. He fought in the second and third wars. The third war was 50 years after the second one ended. Wouldnt that make him like 70 ish when the third war (that he participated in) started?

Johnson & The Juice Crew wrote:
Ok so last night i was reading up on the steel legions of armageddon. I prefer them to DKOK but alas theres only like 12 different models so I wont be collecting them.

One thing I did notice however was commissar yarrick. He fought in the second and third wars. The third war was 50 years after the second one ended. Wouldnt that make him like 70 ish when the third war (that he participated in) started?

the Imperium does have rejuvenation treatments available, you just have to be super special/rich to afford them.
Yarrick is also bolstered by the Orks belief that nothing can kill him

 Wyzilla wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Don't know if I've already posted this in the thread, but I'd add the failure Blood Ravens to this list. They're only slightly better than the Soul Drinkers, but are still pretty terrible.

I like the fluff that they can remember who they were before indoctrination.

Caused some problems with the Grey Knight lore though. They are the only SM chapter that can't be mind wiped. As such the Grey Knights and inquisition are great friends of theirs. Seriously Gabriel Angelo's told the Inqusition to exterminatus his own planet.

Remembering who you were before indoctrination isn't unique to the Blood Ravens. Not at all.

It's because they have eidetic memory or something. While it's not unheard of for Space Marines to know their history(honestly did not know), Blood Ravens have total recall of everything that has happened to them. Supposedly, I read this on Lexicanum or 40k wiki or something.

Johnson & The Juice Crew wrote:
Ok so last night i was reading up on the steel legions of armageddon. I prefer them to DKOK but alas theres only like 12 different models so I wont be collecting them.

One thing I did notice however was commissar yarrick. He fought in the second and third wars. The third war was 50 years after the second one ended. Wouldnt that make him like 70 ish when the third war (that he participated in) started?

It's not uncommon for high-ranking Imperials such as 'Hero' grade Commissars, Inquisitors and Canonesses to reach three hundred years of age in the 40k universe, although of those that do, most retire if they can at about two hundred.

Assuming they aren't slain in battle, of course. They tried to make even that a thing of the past with the Afriel Strain experiments, but none of the clones - while disciplined and highly trained - had quite that spark of genius and charisma that made Macharius what he was.

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

DontEatRawHagis wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Don't know if I've already posted this in the thread, but I'd add the failure Blood Ravens to this list. They're only slightly better than the Soul Drinkers, but are still pretty terrible.

I like the fluff that they can remember who they were before indoctrination.

Caused some problems with the Grey Knight lore though. They are the only SM chapter that can't be mind wiped. As such the Grey Knights and inquisition are great friends of theirs. Seriously Gabriel Angelo's told the Inqusition to exterminatus his own planet.

Remembering who you were before indoctrination isn't unique to the Blood Ravens. Not at all.

It's because they have eidetic memory or something. While it's not unheard of for Space Marines to know their history(honestly did not know), Blood Ravens have total recall of everything that has happened to them. Supposedly, I read this on Lexicanum or 40k wiki or something.

Except that nearly all space marines have eidetic memories.

Seriously dude, stop paying attention to what C.S. Goto writes. The dude never seemingly bothered to read any other books produced by the Black Library.

Not-Jain-Zar's appearance in the Nightlords trilogy. Especially when she takes her helmet off.

There's nothing under Real Jain Zar's helmet, Phoenix Lords don't have bodies.

How about some of the newest fluff? **spoiler alert**

In the new "Red Waagh" book, the "Forgotten Mountain" that Gerantius protects turns out to be a GIANT TRANSFORMER FORTRESS. Into which the Orks promptly ram a friggin' comet. (Almost literally a PLANETSTRIKE, for which there are new rules. Nice tie-in, GW)

Also, the Freeblade Obsidian Knight just kicking all kinds of Tau ass is pretty funny, especially when they imply that the giant stompy black robot just comes out of nowhere.