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I think that method is one of the more effective.

When the plastic tactical squad was released at the start of 3rd it was my first attempt at what I discovered many, many years later was called 'truescale'. Of course, saws, Green Stuff and pinning were beyond my modelling ken at that time so I just used a Stanley knife to cut partway through the legs and then bent them strait and that worked quite well.

I've been using plasticard tube on my latest attempts so they lack that flared look that Marine legs have which has its advantages and disadvantages aesthetically.

 Psienesis wrote:

...that would make said Space Marine of the White Consuls Chapter abso-fething-lutely huge if his pinky is half a meter long and three centimeters thick.

I'm six feet tall and my pinky finger is about 6cm long. So based on that, we can estimate that Space Marines are about 50 feet tall. Why does GW not make the models to match this excellent Black Library fluff?

If you're going to go the termie leg route it helps if you have some beefed up termies too because otherwise it just sort of looks like you're doing regular sized terminators.

 Crimson wrote:
Main problem with Marine proportions are the too short legs, so using larger termie legs is a logical step. The difficulty with them is that the termie legs are so bulky and hips so wide, that they will easily look weird unless you extensively customise the rest of the body as well. It can look great, but it takes a lot of work as at that point you're basically resculpting half of the model. Personally I just enlarge the power armour legs a bit; it is easy enough that I can actually convert an entire army that way without going mad.

Now, my method is far from perfect and it does not IMO produce models of an entirely satisfactory size, but I stole Veteran Sergeant's method of Marine enlargement.



Obviously still WIP but you get the idea.

The specific Tartaros example I mentioned earlier are here. Probably not matching to either the 7ft or the 9ft scale, but very pleasing aesthetically regardless.

 Crimson wrote:

 chromedog wrote:

The leman russ is about 60% the size it should be (at minimum).

Okay, let's unpack this; many people seem to think this or something similar. Why you think this is the case? How large you think a 'real life' Leman Russ would be?

You're kidding, right? It looks like the stupid tank out of metal slug.

OK, the main gun.
The Turret isn't big enough to fit a breech AND the crewmember/commander to fire it as well (the ridiculous BORE of the gun notwithstanding. The newer turret is an improvement, but still too short.
Even taking into account a cramped WW1 era vehicle, where you were at serious risk of braining yourself on any internal structure, not to mention sitting in your crewmate's pocket, there's not enough room inside it for CREW AND munitions. Hell, just carrying enough ammo for 6 shots for the main gun means it cannot fit the crew in as well.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Now, my method is far from perfect and it does not IMO produce models of an entirely satisfactory size, but I stole Veteran Sergeant's method of Marine enlargement.

Spoiler:

Obviously still WIP but you get the idea.

Seems to wok well enough. That is pretty similar to the method I use.

The specific Tartaros example I mentioned earlier are here. Probably not matching to either the 7ft or the 9ft scale, but very pleasing aesthetically regardless.

Spoiler:

Yeah, those are pretty amazing. Tartaros bits seem to work better than the regular termie bits.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 chromedog wrote:

You're kidding, right? It looks like the stupid tank out of metal slug.

OK, the main gun.
The Turret isn't big enough to fit a breech AND the crewmember/commander to fire it as well (the ridiculous BORE of the gun notwithstanding. The newer turret is an improvement, but still too short.
Even taking into account a cramped WW1 era vehicle, where you were at serious risk of braining yourself on any internal structure, not to mention sitting in your crewmate's pocket, there's not enough room inside it for CREW AND munitions. Hell, just carrying enough ammo for 6 shots for the main gun means it cannot fit the crew in as well.

The gun is ridiculously huge, that is true. The tank itself however is quite large, bigger than most historical tanks.

Char B1, the inspiration for Russ:


6.37 metres long, 2.46 wide, 2.79 tall.

Leman Russ:

Over 7 metres long, 4,4 wide and 4.8 tall.

Yours look far better than mine, Crimson. Considering making a tutorial?

I am on a little modelling hiatus atm as WoW RP eats all my time, but when I return I will definitely focus on making few and properly modified Marines over many and less well converted.

Also look at the difference in main gun size. That is nothing short of colossal.

IMO, the majority of Imperial vehicles should be bigger simply due to its aesthetics. Bigger vehicles means more fun, a Baneblade should IMO be a small base on tracks, and so on.

YMM definitely V here though.

It should be noted that my zealous defense of 9 ft Marines are purely on a fluff level. With the current model range, Marines of that size are just not feasible to convert without simply scratchbuilding, something I can't do to a visually satisfying result.

So when it comes to models, 7 ft or so is OK. Though I will of course still defend that they should be far stronger ruleswise. You would probably not like this, either.

 Crimson wrote:





Char B1, the inspiration for Russ:


6.37 metres long, 2.46 wide, 2.79 tall.

Leman Russ:

Over 7 metres long, 4,4 wide and 4.8 tall.

Aha ! I suspected it was a Char B knock-off ! I liked the French tanks. IMO actually better than the German tanks 1939 - 1941.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Marine in the second picture is significantly larger than the one in the first.

I believe Marines are usually 7-8 feet tall. They don't have to be 9 feet tall to look intimidating. The first picture is a good example of how big and buff they are, completely musclebound and physically unmatched by any human.

I never said that nine feet is required to look intimidating.

I simply consider it the most aesthetically appropriate size.

If we assume that the first Marine in your pic is 7-8 feet tall, then the Guardsman beside him must be about 3 feet tall. Seriously, your Marine in that comparison is like 15 feet tall, assuming the Guardsman is anywhere near average height for a human male (around 6 feet).

 KesaAnna wrote:

 Crimson wrote:





Char B1, the inspiration for Russ:


6.37 metres long, 2.46 wide, 2.79 tall.

Leman Russ:

Over 7 metres long, 4,4 wide and 4.8 tall.

Aha ! I suspected it was a Char B knock-off ! I liked the French tanks. IMO actually better than the German tanks 1939 - 1941.

lol, no.

Disarray wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:
GW doesn't know how to scale models very well. If you think 10 Space Marine mini's can fit inside a Rhino ur funny.

See if you can fit 5 Ogryns into a Chimera.

You mean 20 boyz in a wagon...

Transports and WYSIWYG..

GW is consistent with their hatches of Imperial Vehicles. Usually provide 15mm space ( diameter ). Heroic scale means our little plastic figures are rather ..like comic-book characters.

The seats in the transports ( Land Raider and Rhino ) are 9mm.
The behind of a space elf is comfortable with this. Humans may be ok there. SM however barely fit there. 40k models and their broad shoulders ensure no one can really sit there normally.

The passenger compartment is another great piece of fun.

Land Raider = 8,0 x 4,0 x 4,0 = 128cm3
Valkyrie = 7,0 x 5,0 x 3,0 = 105 cm 3
Chimera = 6,5 x 4,5 x 3,0 = 87,75 cm 3
Rhino = 5,5 x 3,2 x 2,8 = 49,28 cm 3

Space Marine = 2,0 x 1,5 x 3,0 = 9 cm 3
Human ( IG ) = 1,0 x 1,0 x 3,0 = 3 cm 3 ( equipped maybe 4,5 )

Thus we could cramp 5 space marines into that rhino. Or 8,5 into a chimera. Put 12 Humans into a Rhino. Or if we give them some gear we may still get 10 into that rhino.
A Land Raider could ferry 14 space marines around, somehow. Or 28 IG.
They just can't really embark - disembark themselves.

So lets use the 8x4 grid of the Land Raider floor. SM = 2x1,5 > 2 rows of 5. Hey we got 10 in! ( aren't LRC for 16 ? )
Or the 6,5x4,5 of the chimera floor. IG = 1,5x1,0 > 2 rows of 6. yay, 12 of them inside! ( no armor, no weapons )

Tightly cramped and not holding their guns at the ready... don't even think about heavy weapons or bling like banners.
Proportions by GW do not allow for unneccessary gear.

Engine of War wrote:

As for the scale. Its of course off, but I remember a while ago seeing a picture with a Leman Russ tank next to a soldier (perhaps a crew member). In the art the tank towered over the guy, I've stood next to tanks before and the one I would equate of that size would be like the King Tiger which is a BIG tank.

A King Tiger is longer but not as broad or high as the Specs given on LR suggest this 40k Tank is. Difference? 1m -1,4m ...
WWII Tanks go up to 3m height, modern ones down to 2,50m aiming for a low profile.

Take a Leman Russ and a SM Predator. GW wrote: LR = 442 cm, P = 440cm. Models should be almost the same height. But they are not.

I was going to throw some vague numbers together about volume of transport compartments, so you saved me the trouble.

To sum up,
- 40k infantry model are not in scale with themselves (head + hand vs torso for instance)
- 40k tank models are not in scale with themselves (size of the main gun vs size of the whole tank)
and the question is, are those model in scale with each other?
As for the fluff size of stuff, there are huge variation in size for actual people, so we should keep that in mind, and maybe consider huge variations for size for marines, and alien species. Also keep in mind that bigger does not necessarily mean better. It is true for living beings, and it is true for tanks too. There are reasons why insects can carry many time their own weight without trouble.

Yeah, nothing is really to scale. But then again, you aren't playing warhammer for its grip on reality and real-world physics.....

I honestly think this is a good representation of the height between a Chaos Marine and a normal human. Granted the human isn't a 40k mini but it gets the point across in my opinion.

The bases are different sizes, count that in.

 Ashiraya wrote:
The bases are different sizes, count that in.

That is true, the human would be insignificantly taller

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I honestly think this is a good representation of the height between a Chaos Marine and a normal human. Granted the human isn't a 40k mini but it gets the point across in my opinion.

The thing to keep in mind is that if that model is supposed to represent the size of, say, the average American adult man, then there would be people taller than this marine.
I think one interesting question is how much bigger the transformation to a space marine makes you. Then you will likely have as much variation in space marines size than in normal human size if size is not a criteria for recruitment.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I honestly think this is a good representation of the height between a Chaos Marine and a normal human. Granted the human isn't a 40k mini but it gets the point across in my opinion.

The thing to keep in mind is that if that model is supposed to represent the size of, say, the average American adult man, then there would be people taller than this marine.
I think one interesting question is how much bigger the transformation to a space marine makes you. Then you will likely have as much variation in space marines size than in normal human size if size is not a criteria for recruitment.

The average american male would be 5'10 I believe, so if that's the case, this marine would probably be 7'0 exactly. So maybe that's about 6 inches short than how tall I imagine they would be but keep in mind how thick and stocky marines are. Shaquille O'Neal could be almost as tall as a marine but he still isn't anywhere near as strong or tough.

In a way, I am taking the whole 'Marines are superhuman' thing literally.

Take their superhuman strength. If there is a human (*Looks at Harker*) who is as strong as a Marine, then the Marine is not superhumanly strong. Then he is just human.

Superhuman means 'above human limits'. Ergo, in this case, a Marine is stronger than the strongest human.

I reason the same for height, which is one reason why I find 7' tall Marines hard to believe. There have been really tall humans, but none have ever reached nine feet. That is why I consider it more logical.

(In fact, the world's tallest man was only 8'11"!)

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

The thing to keep in mind is that if that model is supposed to represent the size of, say, the average American adult man, then there would be people taller than this marine.

So?

I think one interesting question is how much bigger the transformation to a space marine makes you. Then you will likely have as much variation in space marines size than in normal human size if size is not a criteria for recruitment.

That is not necessarily the case. It is quite possible that the Gene-seed stabilises your growth hormone on certain optimal level. There is a definite advantages in not having your army of supersoldiers vary wildly in size.

 Ashiraya wrote:
In a way, I am taking the whole 'Marines are superhuman' thing literally.

Take their superhuman strength. If there is a human (*Looks at Harker*) who is as strong as a Marine, then the Marine is not superhumanly strong. Then he is just human.

Superhuman means 'above human limits'. Ergo, in this case, a Marine is stronger than the strongest human.

I reason the same for height, which is one reason why I find 7' tall Marines hard to believe. There have been really tall humans, but none have ever reached nine feet. That is why I consider it more logical.

(In fact, the world's tallest man was only 8'11"!)

Yeah, Robert Wadlow I believe, but how many people have reached 8'? Honestly? Not much at all. The definition of superhuman btw means showing exceptional abilities or powers. A 7'6-8'4 man weighing 500-700lbs is quite exceptional and while few humans will ever get that tall, they sure as heck will never be as strong.

 Ashiraya wrote:
In a way, I am taking the whole 'Marines are superhuman' thing literally.

Take their superhuman strength. If there is a human (*Looks at Harker*) who is as strong as a Marine, then the Marine is not superhumanly strong. Then he is just human.

I actually agree that Marines pretty much should be stronger than any normal human (on the other hand maybe Harker is just an extremely rare mutant, and not really a 'normal human'.)

However, while Marines are noted having Superhuman Strength and Reflexes, they're not usually described having 'superhuman' height, intelligence or singing voice. Space Marines are superhuman in certain things, they're not superhuman in everything.

 Crimson wrote:
However, while Marines are noted having Superhuman Strength and Reflexes, they're not usually described having 'superhuman' height, intelligence or singing voice.

You mean, except Emperor's children . They can sing perfect lullabies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
So?

So it means there are people taller than space marine. What happens if you make one of those into a space marine ?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
However, while Marines are noted having Superhuman Strength and Reflexes, they're not usually described having 'superhuman' height, intelligence or singing voice.

You mean, except Emperor's children . They can sing perfect lullabies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:
So?

So it means there are people taller than space marine. What happens if you make one of those into a space marine ?

If they reach that height, wouldn't they be too old to make into a Space Marine?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:
In a way, I am taking the whole 'Marines are superhuman' thing literally.

Take their superhuman strength. If there is a human (*Looks at Harker*) who is as strong as a Marine, then the Marine is not superhumanly strong. Then he is just human.

Superhuman means 'above human limits'. Ergo, in this case, a Marine is stronger than the strongest human.

I reason the same for height, which is one reason why I find 7' tall Marines hard to believe. There have been really tall humans, but none have ever reached nine feet. That is why I consider it more logical.

(In fact, the world's tallest man was only 8'11"!)

You could have humans that match a SM in one or so aspects, and still call SM superhuman, as they outmatch that man in other ways. Many of a SM's changes aren't even outwardly visible: They become more intelligent, think/sense/react faster, have a binary vascular system, have greater endurance, have an aqua lung, can assimilate information by eating, they repair faster, they have faster-clotting blood, can spit acid etc.

Most of those would be considered super-powers by human standards, and SM's have all of them. And then a giant suit of armour.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

So it means there are people taller than space marine. What happens if you make one of those into a space marine ?

Arjack Rockfist happens. As there are some really exceptionally tall normal humans, there can be some exceptionally tall Marines.

And one think about extremely tall people like Robert Wadlow, they would never be selected to become Space Marines. Marines need to be super fit, and people with gigantism definitely are not; it is pretty much a disability. Tallest healthy and fit people are about seven and half feet, and those are really rare.

 Crimson wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
In a way, I am taking the whole 'Marines are superhuman' thing literally.

Take their superhuman strength. If there is a human (*Looks at Harker*) who is as strong as a Marine, then the Marine is not superhumanly strong. Then he is just human.

I actually agree that Marines pretty much should be stronger than any normal human (on the other hand maybe Harker is just an extremely rare mutant, and not really a 'normal human'.)

However, while Marines are noted having Superhuman Strength and Reflexes, they're not usually described having 'superhuman' height, intelligence or singing voice. Space Marines are superhuman in certain things, they're not superhuman in everything.

I am fairly sure examples saying Marines are 'inhumanly large' 'of superhuman size' and so on are dotted across the 40K books.

If you'd like, I can go look around and see what I can find.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
In a way, I am taking the whole 'Marines are superhuman' thing literally.

Take their superhuman strength. If there is a human (*Looks at Harker*) who is as strong as a Marine, then the Marine is not superhumanly strong. Then he is just human.

I actually agree that Marines pretty much should be stronger than any normal human (on the other hand maybe Harker is just an extremely rare mutant, and not really a 'normal human'.)

However, while Marines are noted having Superhuman Strength and Reflexes, they're not usually described having 'superhuman' height, intelligence or singing voice. Space Marines are superhuman in certain things, they're not superhuman in everything.

I am fairly sure examples saying Marines are 'inhumanly large' 'of superhuman size' and so on are dotted across the 40K books.

If you'd like, I can go look around and see what I can find.

Exactly, because being normally 7 or 8 feet tall instead of 5 or 6 is considered superhuman.