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With all the horde running around my local shop, I feel its a great time to do a awesome flame based army and kill by the dozens!

So who can do a better flame focused army, Salamanders, Grey Knights or Blood Angels?

What are some of the strengths and weaknesses?

Lets compare each by FOC slots so

-HQ
-Elites
-Troops
-Fast Attack
-Heavy Attack

Another topic also being who can Drop Pod/ Deepstrike better?

Is the Purifier Squad decent with the flame?

Well Dakka, that should cover it, lets get some good ideas and debates going!

Sallies all the way.


take sternguard with heavy flamers, assault squads with double flamers, and a command squad with 4-5 flamers along with vulkan.

A single force org chart for marines can contain up to:

HQ and command
12 flamers and a heavy flamer
Troops
6 flamers and 6 heavy flamers
Fast attack
18 heavy flamers or 6 flamers
Elite
18 flamers and 6 Flamestorm cannons
Heavy
6 Flamestorm cannons

Here's another vote for salamanders

Sallies re-roll wounds with flamers. They turn your 50% chance to wound into a 75% chance. Thats with regular flamers vs normal boyz.

If you want flamers, look for the rules for the promethium pipeline, from the Stronghold Assault book.
There's something there about being able to change Flamer-based weapons to be Heavy and get Torrent. Or something.

if you like/want a serious flamer army then could try Adepta Sororitas

Can have two per battle sister squad (usually 5 Sisters) (or one and a heavy flamer) - so thats every troops choice - and then give the Immolator they travel in a Heavy flamer
Dominon Squads can have upto 4 flamers each ina 5 Sisters unit (Fast attack) again HF Immolator if you like
Elites - Celestians can have the same weapons as the Battle Sisters
Serpahim can have 4 hand flamers on 2 models in a squad
St Clestine has a Heavy Flamer Sword

then of course each Sister superior in each squad can have a combi-flamer.........

plenty of fire here

If you use the Black Legion CSM sup, you can take chosen as troops, and they can take 5 flamers per squad. Take Cypher's formation, and infiltrate 3 more squads of 5 flamer chosen. It also gives you access to the best flamer in the game in the Baledrake, and, if you take oblits, they can switch between heavy flamers and twinlinked flamers each turn.

Wyverns. Lots of them.
It's like flamers, that re-roll to wound, but have massive range and are dirt cheap per shot.

I'd vote for Salamanders, but I'm biased since that's the chapter I play

a few things to think about:

1. having a crap-ton of flamers in a single squad is probably wasted dakka. you can only kill models within range of the template (8" and you must place the template so that it doesn't cover any of your own models. short of some really lucky (or very skilled) model placement, that means you're maybe roasting 6-8 models per turn with all those templates. I think anything beyond 2 flamer templates in the same unit is overkill (this is solely based on my own experiences and not backed up by any scientific study).

2. against anything with a halfway decent armor save (4+ or better), flamers are meh. I usually play against other MEQ and even with the re-rolls to wound from the salamanders chapter tactic, my flamers always underwhelm. I'll admit that it's rather glorious when I get to set some cultists on fire, though...

3. your range is terrible. you need to be right in the face of whatever you want to set on fire. that means you need a way to get there (drop pods, rhinos, etc). it also means you're going to get charged by whatever survives the fire. this is not a wonderful place to be as a marine. I haven't found wall of death to be much of a deterrent, either, but again I mostly play against MEQ. flamers vs. 3+ saves are meh.

4. shoot the flamers first! shooting is resolved by weapon type now, so don't go nuts with bolters (or whatever) only to leave yourself with just 1 or 2 models still in range of your templates.

5. don't bother taking vulkan unless you plan to capitalize on his bonuses to melta weapons. he's not a bad character, but he's only got a captain stat line and wants to be in close combat (where marines don't exactly shine...). with T4, it's risky to tank wounds on him since he can be doubled-out. sometimes it's tough to find a place for him where he's contributing without being overly exposed.

6. for salamanders specifically, remember that only infantry models benefit from the re-rolls to wound with flamers. dreads, speeders and land raiders don't

2 or 3 units built around flamers should be plenty. I usually run a couple tac squads with flamer & combi-flamer and an assault squad with 2 flamers in 1500+ point games and then fill in the rest with anti-tank and heavy support units (plasma, grav cents, stormtalons, etc.). if you go crazy on the flamers, you're going to leave yourself exposed to the non-horde parts of all those horde armies...

I never even thought of spamming flamers with chaos, interesting approach, and the sororitas, they could make a fun ally for a MEQ list of the fire!

As way the army goes, I guess it cant be full flame spam due to losing against armies that can resist it, but im feeling a few pods two with tac squads and one with a decked out sternsquad with either combi melta or flamer.
Also how does a land raider redeemer with a assault termie squad sound? or maybe some assault cent?

A libby taking pyro for the hell of it would hold a nice slot in an HQ position, but how would we deck out a Chapter master?



HEY any blood angel players out there want to chim in? You got the Baal pred and infernus pistols, so how would a BA player set up a burn army?

100 points gives the Dark Angels a 3 man bike squad with 2 flamers and a combi-flamer. The best flamer unit? Probably not, but with scout I almost always get to roast something (and hit and run lets you do it again and again).

I'd go salamanders:

Vulkan
Flamer sternguard/tactical squads
Vindicators
2XHeavy Flamer Dreadnoughts

All good stuff.

I vote guard, why are you overlooking the hellhound? They may not have a ton of flamers but they are great at gunning down hordes.

I'm sure Glorywarrior would be a better guy to post about Blood Angels and their flamer capabilities...but I'll try.

Assault squads get two hand flamers which makes it good for assaulting as it's a pistol. Baal predators get Inferno Cannons as their main weapons and heavy flamer sponsons and are Fast, so you can get them in your enemies faces quickly, and I think they have scout (might be wrong here) so you can outflank them.

All the non-special characters have access to hand flamers as do most of the other elites choices. All in all, you can be pretty fast moving and get the flamer nastiness where it needs to be.

They may not be marines but if you are willing to drop the marine requirement they are a serious contender.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Guard i mean

Salamanders are the best at getting the most from their flamers. Vulkan really puts it over the edge.

Eihnlazer wrote:

HQ and command
12 flamers and a heavy flamer
Troops
6 flamers and 6 heavy flamers
Fast attack
18 heavy flamers or 6 flamers
Elite
18 flamers and 6 Flamestorm cannons
Heavy
6 Flamestorm cannons

Sorry to focus on just one point, but I'm curious how you're getting heavy flamers on Troops?

Salamanders and an IG ally with hellhounds...

Vulkan with command squad with 5 flamers and Land Raider Redeemer

Sterguards x 10 in drop pod, 2 Heavy flamers and 8 combi flamers


Tactical squad 5 men with flamer, sgt combi flamer Razorback twin Heavy Flamer
Tactical squad 5 men with flamer, sgt combi flamer Razorback twin Heavy Flamer
Tactical squad 5 men with flamer, sgt combi flamer Razorback twin Heavy Flamer

Assault squad with 2 flamers

Iron Clad with Heavy Flamer
Predator Infernus with flamestorm

Then -

Imperial Guard CCS -
Commander, 4 flamers
Chimera 2 x heavy flamers

Vet Squad, 3 Flamers, Chimera with heavy flamer and hull mounted heavy flamer

Vet Squad, 3 Flamers, Chimera with heavy flamer and hull mounted heavy flamer

Hellhound Squadron with 3 Hellhounds with Hull mounted Heavy Flamers
Sentinal Squadron with 3 Sentinals withy Heavy Flamers.

Around 2500 pts all told.

mmm flamers

JBrehaut wrote:


Sorry to focus on just one point, but I'm curious how you're getting heavy flamers on Troops?

I would assume they're mounted on razorbacks, although seriously, Sororitas do this way better in terms of sheer template output, and the Immolator is superior to the Razorback in every way (other than lacking a las/plas option).

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Wyverns. Lots of them.
It's like flamers, that re-roll to wound, but have massive range and are dirt cheap per shot.

Could say they are firing "Napalm" rounds

The thing about IG is, they fold like paper on their troops and sure the hellhound is good and all but it is a weak chassis in my opinion.

They need a more dedicated flamer "chapter tactics" per say, as maybe an HQ that helps out or a special set of orders.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

JBrehaut wrote:


Sorry to focus on just one point, but I'm curious how you're getting heavy flamers on Troops?

I would assume they're mounted on razorbacks.

If this is true, there isn't much point. Vehicles don't benefit from any Chapter Tactics, barring the one Iron Hands one. Might as well bring some more anti-tank stuff on those.

Hey i was just mentioning you could get em, didnt say they were super effective. :p



But being as how the razorback heavy flamers are twin-linked, they dont need chapter tactics anyway.


I actually find them useful in alot of situations.

If you actually field 6 man squads of tacs with a meltagun you can put em in those razorbacks and just flat out first turn. Then hopefully hit some open topped transports with the flames second turn when you drop your troops.

 Solosam47 wrote:
... sure the hellhound is good and all but it is a weak chassis in my opinion.

Isn't the Hellhound 12/12/10, where-as the Razorback is 11/11/10? Predators are better here, yeah.
The HH has the hull-mounted flamer as well as the torrent Inferno. BS is irrelevant here. And, it's Fast.
Just in case you were thinking of something else.

5x Man Flamer Command Squds w/ Vulkan in a redeemer, 10x Man Sternguard Squads in pods w/ 2x HF and 8x Combi Flamers, and 5x Man Assault Squads w/ 2 Flamers in a Pod

 Skinnereal wrote:

 Solosam47 wrote:
... sure the hellhound is good and all but it is a weak chassis in my opinion.

Isn't the Hellhound 12/12/10, where-as the Razorback is 11/11/10? Predators are better here, yeah.
The HH has the hull-mounted flamer as well as the torrent Inferno. BS is irrelevant here. And, it's Fast.
Just in case you were thinking of something else.

Lol let me clear this up, as a transport the chimera chassis is awesome, but for something with a flame on it, eh i just dont agree

My Avatar approves of this thread.

Everyone should use Flamers. And Meltas.

 Solosam47 wrote:
Lol let me clear this up, as a transport the chimera chassis is awesome, but for something with a flame on it, eh i just dont agree

Well, to be fair, the HH has an extra 2 points of side armour (it's 12/12/10 rather than the Chimera 12/10/10) and it's a Fast Tank (rather than the Chimera being just Tank).

I agree that the HH isn't as durable as a Land Raider with Flamestorm or somesuch, but it's not equivalent to a Chimera chassis.

DoW

 DogOfWar wrote:

 Solosam47 wrote:
Lol let me clear this up, as a transport the chimera chassis is awesome, but for something with a flame on it, eh i just dont agree

Well, to be fair, the HH has an extra 2 points of side armour (it's 12/12/10 rather than the Chimera 12/10/10) and it's a Fast Tank (rather than the Chimera being just Tank).

I agree that the HH isn't as durable as a Land Raider with Flamestorm or somesuch, but it's not equivalent to a Chimera chassis.

DoW

oh i didnt realize it had a 12 side, my bad there lol, i thought it was a miss type in the thread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bharring wrote:
My Avatar approves of this thread.

Everyone should use Flamers. And Meltas.

Oh poor avatar, i dont see much of him anymore

 Solosam47 wrote:

oh i didnt realize it had a 12 side, my bad there lol, i thought it was a miss type in the thread.

No problem!

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh. I get testy when someone talks smack about my beloved Hellhounds

For what it's worth, HH used to have a special rule (5th edition, perhaps?) that made all glancing hits into penetrating hits (Unstable Fuel or somesuch), so they were really hard to justify taking. Bombs on tracks... and not the good kind!

DoW