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OgreChubbs wrote:
Hi, I made an account because people will make fun of me if I post on my real account to say why I am mad at 7th and I am super duper mad and am holding my breath I will teach you all a lesson for super sure now .

Teach you GW for not making the game I want and making it for the masses

funny how the "game for the masses" is making the masses leave and start playing other games instead.

 jasper76 wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
While I certainly understand the price point being out of reach for many new gamers, but I've always been confused by long time veterans quitting almost solely due to pricing when in fact they are usually the least impacted by it. Most long time 40K players have 3K or more worth of models for their chosen armies and only really need to worry about new units and books. I guess if you want to build a new army every year or so, that could be a deterrent, but what is keeping you from playing the game with your existing armies?

This reported phenomenon also confuses me. A guy in our gaming group (who doesn't need the money) put 7K worth of Orks for sale at the flgs after the new codex came out. We told him we don't care if he uses his old softback codex, and advised him to save his stuff in case he ever got inerested in the game again...but we just couldn't get through.

It's about perceived value and who we think deserves our money. It's not about the actual cost, but about whether what we're buying is actually worth that money. When we perceive that it isn't worth the high prices, it becomes a "rip off" and we no longer want to buy it. Also, because it's a rip off, we no longer want to reward a company for price gouging. So we either stop buying or buy from one of GW's competitors.

Yeah, at first I was thinking the ClassicCarraway was talking about selling off armies, which is what I don't really get, unless, of course, you need the money.

 jasper76 wrote:
Yeah, at first I was thinking the ClassicCarraway was talking about selling off armies, which is what I don't really get, unless, of course, you need the money.

There are different reasons for selling off armies.
Disgust at something you once loved.
Need the money.
You'll never play it again so why not?
Want to use that money for more hobby stuff.

I sold one of my armies to buy into different games. I knew I wasn't going to use it again so I might as well turn it into something I will use.

Fair enough

marke wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
so far as I can tell, Warmachine is also pretty expensive

Yeah, it kinda is, but it doesn't feel like you're paying for "nothing". Faction books aren't compulsory for starters, every unit can be effective in the right list, the rules are tight, and there are no over/underpowered factions (yes, few factions have had less Tournament success, but they are still far from unplayable.. nothing compared to the situation with 40k).

For anyone having enough dough to even have miniature games as a hobby, the numeric price isn't the real question (it's not like anyone of us is suffering from involuntary malnutrition). The real question is; are you getting what you're paying for?

I'm not trying to get defensive about PP's pricing. It is on the steep side, but on the other hand, I don't feel like I'm paying too much so I don't know if it's the same thing as with 40k.

Pretty much. Warmachine *is* expensive; it can get as expensive as 40k. The main difference is twofold for me:

1) The cost rises slowly, it's not drop $500 to start. A starter box is $50 and you can start playing with that, you can get a normal sized force for about $200 or so depending on what you get.
2) It feels like you get more when you buy a unit for say $50 and only need that one unit, versus paying $40 and needing to buy 2+ boxes. Even the really expensive WMH units like Iron Fang Pikemen (at a whopping $85 for 10 metal figures ) you still tend to buy one box, so it's not quite as bad as buying multiple expensive units like with 40k.

 lobbywatson wrote:
Omg a dear John letter to GW!! Jesus I'd quit coming to dakka but its so hilarious all the time!

I must say I thought something similar. A lot of posts here annoy me, but every now and then I read something like that and it makes it all worthwhile.

@OP, boohoo.

@Everyone else, there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, neither GW nor 40k are perfect. In fact, some things are straight up wrong, but stop complaining so much, and stop telling everyone else to quit! Obviously the people who still buy and collect and build and paint and game are enjoying themselves, so what you're saying really just amounts to "stop liking things that I don't like." And I'll be the second person to quote American History X here in the last week and say that hate and resentment gets you absolutely nowhere, and only makes you a hateful and resentful person.

Lighten up.

 jasper76 wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
While I certainly understand the price point being out of reach for many new gamers, but I've always been confused by long time veterans quitting almost solely due to pricing when in fact they are usually the least impacted by it. Most long time 40K players have 3K or more worth of models for their chosen armies and only really need to worry about new units and books. I guess if you want to build a new army every year or so, that could be a deterrent, but what is keeping you from playing the game with your existing armies?

This reported phenomenon also confuses me. A guy in our gaming group (who doesn't need the money) put 7K worth of Orks for sale at the flgs after the new codex came out. We told him we don't care if he uses his old softback codex, and advised him to save his stuff in case he ever got inerested in the game again...but we just couldn't get through.

I wouldn't say I have quit but I didn't buy any 6th edition codexes and I won't buy the 7th edition rules until the softback comes out. All due to price. So I also haven't bought any 6th edition models like Riptide, Flyrant, etc. (To be fair, some of these can be proxied by other SF models.)

Thus my armies are out of date in the era of Unbound Lords of War Flying Fortified Psychic Allies Escalation.

Of course I can still play the 4th or 5th edition versions.

The OP wanted to publish a swan-song to a history of the game.

So be it.

Always a great thing to note how some people find this sort of thing "entertainment".

Hobbies come and go, it is just more of a goodbye to a culture that will not be replaced by the newer pursuits.

I am sure the mocking comments will remove any lingering doubts of making the right decision.

There is The HHHobby of GW and there is the hobby of tabletop wargaming.

I join with the other users who encourage continuation in the hobby even if one's enjoyment of The HHHobby has waned.

Personally I regret a lot the "hobby" stuff I sold off during the fallow years of my involvement.

I have no intention of getting rid of my HHHobby stuff as I have put a lot of effort into making it and the models are very useable with other rules.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
While I certainly understand the price point being out of reach for many new gamers, but I've always been confused by long time veterans quitting almost solely due to pricing when in fact they are usually the least impacted by it. Most long time 40K players have 3K or more worth of models for their chosen armies and only really need to worry about new units and books. I guess if you want to build a new army every year or so, that could be a deterrent, but what is keeping you from playing the game with your existing armies?

This reported phenomenon also confuses me. A guy in our gaming group (who doesn't need the money) put 7K worth of Orks for sale at the flgs after the new codex came out. We told him we don't care if he uses his old softback codex, and advised him to save his stuff in case he ever got inerested in the game again...but we just couldn't get through.

It's about perceived value and who we think deserves our money. It's not about the actual cost, but about whether what we're buying is actually worth that money. When we perceive that it isn't worth the high prices, it becomes a "rip off" and we no longer want to buy it. Also, because it's a rip off, we no longer want to reward a company for price gouging. So we either stop buying or buy from one of GW's competitors.

Still makes no sense as GW already got their money. So it is actually less costly to buy the new book than start up a new game. As said above the person had a gaming group. I can understand quitting when the whole gaming group changes games.

For historicals we just keep on buying the new rules from new companies. I try to avoid rebasing and for my ACW it has played under ten different rule sets.

Anyone can leave the game but if you have the existing models leaving because of price increase does confuse us.

As far as entertainment value of the OP goes, to me, the best bit is where he thinks he can resell console games for 2/3 of what he paid for them. Takes just a few weeks for used to drop below that. Less than two months and Wolfenstein's already out there for half (I feel I don't even need to make cracks about DLC and 60 not even getting you a complete game anyways). In a couple years, even new sales pretty much dry up entirely unless you're throwing it away at fire sales. If it's not caked in awful paint or misassembled, miniatures at least hit a price floor that isn't a single digit percentage. Though he'd have had a better argument for Steam sales and picking up complete games for the price of a fast food meal.

To me, Steam and the video gaming industry as a whole showcases what happens if pricing remains static. A new AAA title was 50-60 bucks even 40% inflation and 20 years ago, and for whatever reason, this pricing has fixed itself in our consciousness as what's acceptable for super brand new. Even 70 on release for some titles was enough to start shitstorms. Day 1 DLC, online passes, and other microtransactions are how many companies seek to absorb the inflating costs of development as profit/unit shrinks, especially since Steam exists and rapidly drives prices into the ground. It's gotten to the point where I found myself balking at 40 bucks for Divinity: Original Sin the day after I dumped half again as much on four X-wing ships. We as consumers no longer value video games highly at all, despite the evident work that goes into them, and it caused the publishers to turn around and try to find ways to recoup their costs. The best part is that publishers have even managed to cut production costs as physical media grows cheaper and digital distribution takes over, and they're still pushing additional monetization, in part because they need to in order to get around static price perception and inflation. And because of all that, publishers have stopped taking risks with quirky new concepts. The reason there's a new Call of Duty and NFL game every year is because they're safe. Static prices lead to a static industry that churns out the same games over and over again, and only occasionally tries something new. They know how to recover their money, and stick to it.

Games Workshop and miniatures as a whole haven't really had the ability to switch to a low-cost on-demand production (yet). They can't realistically cut production costs by making instructions electronic only, and can't drop their material and machining costs at all. They can't sell most microtransactions at all, and models have far longer lifespans than the vast majority of video games. Nintendo will probably sell me another Mario Kart down the line, GW's never going to be able to sell me another Tactical Marine. As a result, GW also has to take those risks with new stuff that EA and the like have opted out of. They're dealing with a lot of the same problems as they occupy a similar entertainment niche and consumer perceptions, but don't have the same ways to circumvent it. One of the few things they CAN do that the video game companies can't is raise relative prices on completely new kits and still manage to sell some of them. It's not a total justification of their price increases but I think it's a partial defense, though I do suspect GW is perhaps drawing a few too many ideas from that industry and mishandling others.

tiger g wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
While I certainly understand the price point being out of reach for many new gamers, but I've always been confused by long time veterans quitting almost solely due to pricing when in fact they are usually the least impacted by it. Most long time 40K players have 3K or more worth of models for their chosen armies and only really need to worry about new units and books. I guess if you want to build a new army every year or so, that could be a deterrent, but what is keeping you from playing the game with your existing armies?

This reported phenomenon also confuses me. A guy in our gaming group (who doesn't need the money) put 7K worth of Orks for sale at the flgs after the new codex came out. We told him we don't care if he uses his old softback codex, and advised him to save his stuff in case he ever got inerested in the game again...but we just couldn't get through.

It's about perceived value and who we think deserves our money. It's not about the actual cost, but about whether what we're buying is actually worth that money. When we perceive that it isn't worth the high prices, it becomes a "rip off" and we no longer want to buy it. Also, because it's a rip off, we no longer want to reward a company for price gouging. So we either stop buying or buy from one of GW's competitors.

Still makes no sense as GW already got their money. So it is actually less costly to buy the new book than start up a new game. As said above the person had a gaming group. I can understand quitting when the whole gaming group changes games.

For historicals we just keep on buying the new rules from new companies. I try to avoid rebasing and for my ACW it has played under ten different rule sets.

Anyone can leave the game but if you have the existing models leaving because of price increase does confuse us.

Ah, ok, I understand the question now.
They sell so they can use that money to buy new stuff from games they'll actually enjoy.

tiger g wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
While I certainly understand the price point being out of reach for many new gamers, but I've always been confused by long time veterans quitting almost solely due to pricing when in fact they are usually the least impacted by it. Most long time 40K players have 3K or more worth of models for their chosen armies and only really need to worry about new units and books. I guess if you want to build a new army every year or so, that could be a deterrent, but what is keeping you from playing the game with your existing armies?

This reported phenomenon also confuses me. A guy in our gaming group (who doesn't need the money) put 7K worth of Orks for sale at the flgs after the new codex came out. We told him we don't care if he uses his old softback codex, and advised him to save his stuff in case he ever got inerested in the game again...but we just couldn't get through.

It's about perceived value and who we think deserves our money. It's not about the actual cost, but about whether what we're buying is actually worth that money. When we perceive that it isn't worth the high prices, it becomes a "rip off" and we no longer want to buy it. Also, because it's a rip off, we no longer want to reward a company for price gouging. So we either stop buying or buy from one of GW's competitors.

Still makes no sense as GW already got their money. So it is actually less costly to buy the new book than start up a new game. As said above the person had a gaming group. I can understand quitting when the whole gaming group changes games.

For historicals we just keep on buying the new rules from new companies. I try to avoid rebasing and for my ACW it has played under ten different rule sets.

Anyone can leave the game but if you have the existing models leaving because of price increase does confuse us.

Actually it isn't necessarily cheaper to continue than to get a new game.

Take De Bellis Antiquitatis for example. The rules are £15 and armies are about £40 each. You can buy two matched armies and the rules for £95. If I want to update my 40K I need to spend £50 for the 7th edition rules and £60 for my two codexes. That is £110 without any of the new models I might need. For the same price I could by DBA and two armies and another copy of DBA rulebook to give to a friend.

Also, once built your DBA armies will be compatible with any non-WHAB compatible rule book.

Alternatively you can buy Super Dungeon Explore or Twilight Imperium III or Gears Of War Boardgame for about £60 to £75.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

tiger g wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
[quote=jasper76 604114 7005437

Take De Bellis Antiquitatis for example. The rules are £15 and armies are about £40 each. You can buy two matched armies and the rules for £95. If I want to update my 40K I need to spend £50 for the 7th edition rules and £60 for my two codexes. That is £110 without any of the new models I might need. For the same price I could by DBA and two armies and another copy of DBA rulebook to give to a friend.

Also, once built your DBA armies will be compatible with any non-WHAB compatible rule book.

Alternatively you can buy Super Dungeon Explore or Twilight Imperium III or Gears Of War Boardgame for about £60 to £75.

Okay I will take De Bellis. It is not a mass combat game. It is a twelve unit game no more no less. also very limited terrain is used. (I have played the game) I like the size of 40k and my ancient armies are just as big and we use rules and tables to reflect this. Also do not play tournaments which is what De Bellis was primarily written for. I could buy other boardgames that use miniatures and have still the same scale. (size of battle not size of figures).

Amen to GrayHamster and calamarialldayerrday!!

Side note as I see where this hate fest is going. I have never played war machine hordes. I know nothing about it. Zero. I've seen the models in stores. You know what else I've never done.
Gone to a war machine forum/thread and said a word. Wanna know why? Because its ok they like it. I'm cool with it. My game is better for ME. I don't know if its better for them. I don't care. I'm not here to recruit them or bash their game. Totally their prerogative. Enjoy your game. Now please follow this advice.
I like my war games like I like my religion. It's totally fine for you to worship whatever you want. If I want to know about I'll invite you over. Until that day keep it to yourself. I'll stick with my atheism.

Hey look, another thread started by someone who doesn't play GW games anymore because they disagree with pricing/practices/color of the website background.

Hoooooraaaaaay.

 Murdius Maximus wrote:
If you quit, then quit. If you want validation for your reasons for quitting, I guess you came to the right place but why even bother if you hate it so much? Wasted energy if you ask me...

Agreed 100%. This is just nihilistic panty-flapping.

OP creates an account after 'LONG' time lurking just to make a post to tell everyone he is quitting, that we can safely assume he won't be re-visiting again. Think we can let this one die...

 ArbitorIan wrote:
Meh. The price creep just hasn't affected me.

I buy almost everything off eBay, based on what cool armies I feel like building rather than how competitive they are. I've never felt the need to buy £140 models just because they're there, or they're the new release. I like oop models and converting.

I use Vallejo and Minitaire paints, buy glue and greenscuff from other suppliers and use art shops for tools, paint extras, etc.

The only things I regularly buy from GW are physical codexes for the armies I own and the rules (digital). Or Forge World occasionally.

Maybe we should make a '40k on the cheap' article to help people out who feel like they want to quit the hobby because of pricing...

Yeah this is a good idea, like I said, If you put some effort in you can get your gak for next to nothing.

I honestly reckon I've done about $300 in the last three years. I went halves on DV when that came out (50$) and I think since then all I've bought has been off third parties and eBay.

$100 a year is feth all, I think people drip too much instead of just thinking about how to minimize the cost.

 lobbywatson wrote:
Amen to GrayHamster and calamarialldayerrday!!

Side note as I see where this hate fest is going. I have never played war machine hordes. I know nothing about it. Zero. I've seen the models in stores. You know what else I've never done.
Gone to a war machine forum/thread and said a word. Wanna know why? Because its ok they like it. I'm cool with it. My game is better for ME. I don't know if its better for them. I don't care. I'm not here to recruit them or bash their game. Totally their prerogative. Enjoy your game. Now please follow this advice.
I like my war games like I like my religion. It's totally fine for you to worship whatever you want. If I want to know about I'll invite you over. Until that day keep it to yourself. I'll stick with my atheism.

You've fundamentally misunderstood what's going around you.

 MWHistorian wrote:

 lobbywatson wrote:
Amen to GrayHamster and calamarialldayerrday!!

You've fundamentally misunderstood what's going around you.

This should be rich.... Fire away. I hope you are as funny as the OP.

 jasper76 wrote:
Yeah, at first I was thinking the ClassicCarraway was talking about selling off armies, which is what I don't really get, unless, of course, you need the money.

You sell off armies to fund other acquisitions, not necessarily because you need the money. I'm pretty much complete with 40k outside of modeling dioramas and painting specific characters, so I'm hucking all my loot. The first round went to finishing out my Infinity, Malifaux, and Warmarhordes collections. The second round will go to cooking investments, which aren't a bad thing. It's essentially opportunity cost that would be sitting under my bed or in my closet versus actually doing something for me.

There's also a break of "mental clutter". When you know it's all gone, you cannot be easily lured back in based on this or that. It would take real change for me to commit to a new set of rulebooks and models. I am keeping my 5E mini-rulebook and the 5E codices as that's the edition I enjoyed the most and would play it again someday if I found like minded friends.

Also, I'm glad someone like lobbywatason does nothing more than to state he's laughing at other people without actually providing any commentary. It's yet another proof that many people don't have empathy with one another in this world and needing their shallow validations is worthless.

from a previous point about getting old stuff cheap. Yes..I do have all I need to play what I need to play. However, I would like to try some of the new units out and they do look good. So, for that kind of thing, GW is terribly over priced. I looked at centurions and went..."what great chaos obliteraters they would be". and then saw the price. 78 for 3 minis.......that just too hard of a hit.

To get older stuff though...yes eBay and Craigslist have provided me a army at a 3rd the price. So I'll completely agree there.

I have almost the opposite story. I recently got back into 40k after many years of sticking to xbox. When i stopped flatting and we no longer had the lan parties i missed the social get together-ness of gaming and getting back into 40k was a good solution. The cost certainly is prohibitive, but there are definitely ways around it. GW definitely frustrates me because I want their games to flourish and have a lot invested in the fluff as well, yet their seeming determination to destroy their own customer base puts this hobby in increasing jeopardy.

 TheKbob wrote:
The second round will go to cooking investments, which aren't a bad thing.

I thought you said you were done with that, Jesse....

Gw is trying to make wargamers quit

 melkorthetonedeaf wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
The second round will go to cooking investments, which aren't a bad thing.

I thought you said you were done with that, Jesse....

Reference is lost on me...

 TheKbob wrote:


Reference is lost on me...

Breaking Bad.

I got a good chunk of my Tyranid army for not very much by buying secondhand stuff on eBay. The brand new units like the Trygon had to come from GW, of course, but I modified Carnifexes for the Tervigon and Tyrannofex. GW didn't make those models at the time, of course.

 Blacksails wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:


Reference is lost on me...

Breaking Bad.

Had coffee now... That's funny, I laughed.