Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2014/07/09 16:16:47
Subject: Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
Flying Toaster wrote: I said major. Like in game ending will never field the model ever major.
Chimeras going up nearly 20% in price and losing major utility for command squads and vets is pretty major.
Yes points costs have gone up for transports but honestly IG were dirt cheap in everything for a long time, do you really think that was going to continue?
Given the massive nerf to vehicle survivability since 5E and major boost that skimmer transports received relative to tracked transports (jink, much farther flat out moves) and coupled with the fact that even more dirt-cheap SM transports didn't change, it certainly didn't seem warranted.
tiger g wrote: So transports are more expensive. Also do they not last longer on the table? And they can score points.
Less fire points is a negative but they also do not explode as much killing the unit inside.
Seems like the increased cost was offset by positives or just give them the positives decrease the costs and then claim the game is unbalanced.
They certainly don't last *anything* near as long as they did in 5th when the last book was released, changes to vehicle survivability between 6th and 7th isn't *that* huge and changes in utility certainly doesn't seem to have applied to anything else.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/09 16:21:59
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2014/07/09 16:20:01
Subject: Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
Ribon Fox wrote: My Mech-commander style army got hit with the price incress to the chimera quite hard, granted that was off set by how cheep the crarpace armour is now but my vendetta, the poor bird probably wont take to the table for a bit. As for the hydra...still no intercept, ground fire, made it open top and they took the tracking rule away... they didn't like how good it was.
Oh christ yeah the poor Hydra. Got smacked with both Open Topped and lost its one useful capability and all it got was a 5pt cut.
That was completely unwarranted.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2014/07/09 16:28:41
Subject: Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
I was *very* surprised the Baneblade wasn't included, after the Wraithknight and Riptide I'd have thought for sure they would have thrown the BB in just to hop on the "big kit inclusion" bandwagon.
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2014/07/09 16:31:06
Subject: Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
tiger g wrote: So transports are more expensive. Also do they not last longer on the table? And they can score points.
Not really. Getting glanced to death is just as effective and frequent as it was before. I'm just paying 18% more for the privilege. At this point, I'd be better off with Rhinos.
Less fire points is a negative but they also do not explode as much killing the unit inside.
So they're expensive Rhinos.
Seems like the increased cost was offset by positives or just give them the positives decrease the costs and then claim the game is unbalanced.
The problem is that the positives aren't the things that were an issue. It's like I gave you a bunch of old crap I have in my closet and then charge you for the opportunity.
Who cares what places at a tournament? I mean play for fun, not what is powerful.
After all do you really need to win with plastic toy soldiers?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/09 17:00:36
Agies Grimm:The "Learn to play, bro" mentality is mostly just a way for someone to try to shame you by implying that their metaphorical nerd-wiener is bigger than yours. Which, ironically, I think nerds do even more vehemently than jocks.
Everything is made up and the points don't matter. 40K or Who's Line is it Anyway?
Auticus wrote: Or in summation: its ok to exploit shoddy points because those are rules and gamers exist to find rules loopholes (they are still "legal"), but if the same force can be composed without structure, it emotionally feels "wrong".
2014/07/09 17:03:00
Subject: Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
Did the Vendetta transport capacity made Valkyries more desirable as transports now? I have a Valkyrie still in the box and am thinking I should assemble it as a Valkyrie and not as a Vendetta as I originally planned.
2014/07/09 17:07:59
Subject: Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
Davor wrote: Who cares what places at a tournament? I mean play for fun, not what is powerful.
After all do you really need to win with plastic toy soldiers?
A codex's worth varies from person to person, and for some people its competitiveness matters more than other aspects.
Its not about needing to win, its about hoping the codex is balanced internally and externally for optimal gaming with everyone without having to either self nerf or take only one or two stronger builds to keep up with your friends, as the case may be.
Don't ostracize people for having a desire to win at a game with defined victory conditions.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
2014/07/09 17:09:45
Subject: Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
Davor wrote: Who cares what places at a tournament? I mean play for fun, not what is powerful.
After all do you really need to win with plastic toy soldiers?
Hockey is just a game. Do you really need to win with wooden sticks? Who cares about... sorry, I have nfi about hockey leagues ; p I hope my point is clear however.
So yes, being competitive is important. Especially if you play in competitions which a lot of players like to do. Or if you enjoy a challenge in general where it's your skill against the other players skill, not who has the best codex. Suggesting that competition isn't important when the game is fundamentally one player competing against another always boggles the mind.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/09 17:24:32
2014/07/09 17:25:10
Subject: Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
ashikenshin wrote: Did the Vendetta transport capacity made Valkyries more desirable as transports now? I have a Valkyrie still in the box and am thinking I should assemble it as a Valkyrie and not as a Vendetta as I originally planned.
I dont think so, even with extra space there arnt many 10man options that are worth putting up in the air besides being codex:imperium (what would be funny popping out of a flyer?)
-Tank commanders are awsome
-Priests and psykers not taking up slots and buffing every unit beyond their meagre points cost is excellent.
-LRs being reduced heavily in price.
-Wyverns destroying so many infantry.
-Conscript blobs going from meh to wow with just a couple of cheap attached characters.
All these are excellent things tactically.
2014/07/09 18:19:43
Subject: Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
My regiment is based on a forest world here is the fluff.
Spoiler:
This forest world is not like any other. Trees and vegetation grow very quickly. entire forests will regrow in 4 years. Forest Fires are a very serious danger. one cigarette could cause a forest fire that could span an entire continent. these fires take time to traverse continents so by the time they reach one side of the continent trees on the other have already grown back. The rapid growth of vegetation and continent spanning fires can result in never ending forest fires.
To combat this cities continually cut trees to provide a barrier between themselves and the dangers of forest fires. following in the wake of the fires are farmers, abhumans, and mutants who use the fertilized soil to create crops. These farmers and abhumans supply more than enough food for the planet, so the excess is sent for imperial tithes. Wood and lumber is in no short supply and is shipped off world for the tithes.
Since the entire planet is covered in forests and there is no way to clear them vehicles must be able to maneuver between them. Aircraft are very important to the planet and are the primary source of travel. Aircraft are extensively used by most of the population. whether it be gakky gyro-coptors, prop planes, hot air balloons, or thrust vectored jets. Fires, are put out by aircraft and small teams on the ground that chop down trees ahead of the fire, whilst aircraft drop water on the fires. Commerce and transportation of goods is all done by aircraft so you have lumber and produce being flown all across the world.
With so much aerial activity on this planet the defense force is very well trained in flying and are equipped with vendettas, Valkyries, and thunderbolts to combat any renegade, rogue, or criminal pilots that seek to evade imperial justice.
This world is officially classified as an agri world and is only required to send food, and raw resources such a s lumber. It is not required to send imperial guard regiments. Instead of sending guard regiments they send volunteer groups from the defense force to fight for the imperium. These volunteer groups primarily function as light infantry, and air cavalry regiments. Only veteran pilots and troops of the defense force that have seen many a battle with crazed creatures, fought the fiercest of fires, assaulted hidden heretical hideouts deep in the woods, and shot down the craftiest and deadliest aerial pirates are allowed to join the volunteer groups if they so wish. The status of still being a defense force is both a blessing and a curse. The volunteer groups are allowed to maintain command of their aerial support, but the planet l must supply all of its troops with its own provisions and interstellar transport.
The volunteer veterans of these volunteer groups prefer to sneak up and outflank their enemies through the woods with support from heavy weapons teams, and sentinels whilst Valkyries drop troops behind enemy lines. vendettas provide a double role of taking out enemy fliers, and destroying enemy group targets. The thunderbolt is the primary air superiority fighter of the regiment.
My regiment needs to rely on the outflanking or infiltrate warlord traits to be fluffy and semi effective. Valkyries vendettas and sentinels all take up fast attack choices so i have to take two detachments of guard each with a ccs and 2 squads of veterans. Valkyries are my only choice for transport really. That leaves me with making what is an essentially elysian list when i want to make a list that fits my fluff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/09 18:29:33
2014/07/09 19:12:20
Subject: Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
Overall the majority of units got a bit better. Everything that didn't was either by general concensus underpriced in the last codex or was reduced in worth so GW could push the new toys. Then there were Ogryns and variants that were GWs requisite shoulder shrugging unit.
I really wanted to see Ogryn and their kin shine, but it seems GW went out their way from making this unit buildable into something useful. Too expensive to use as bubble wrap and built to small when you want to transport them. As a footslogging unit they're expensive fodder. I think that leaves them only worthwhile as some in cover backfield unit that I can't figure what to do with. Oh and when can their heavy weapon sized guns actually have some worthwhile stats?
Rough Riders need help. Without models I'm actually surprised GW didn't purge them along with the other modeless units.
Leman Russ battle tanks relative to its variants should have been cheaper. The variants seem like a steal comparatively.
2014/07/09 19:13:40
Subject: Re:Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
aka_mythos wrote: Overall the majority of units got a bit better. Everything that didn't was either by general concensus underpriced in the last codex or was reduced in worth so GW could push the new toys. Then there were Ogryns and variants that were GWs requisite shoulder shrugging unit.
I really wanted to see Ogryn and their kin shine, but it seems GW went out their way from making this unit buildable into something useful. Too expensive to use as bubble wrap and built to small when you want to transport them. As a footslogging unit they're expensive fodder. I think that leaves them only worthwhile as some in cover backfield unit that I can't figure what to do with. Oh and when can their heavy weapon sized guns actually have some worthwhile stats?
Rough Riders need help. Without models I'm actually surprised GW didn't purge them along with the other modeless units.
Leman Russ battle tanks relative to its variants should have been cheaper. The variants seem like a steal comparatively.
Indeed Ogryns running around with las cannons or auto cannons would of been cool
Lemans though i have no clue why demolisher went up to 170 as it seems excessive for no reason. also losing lumbering behemoth kinda sucks. (why ordnance why)
PhillyT wrote: I have read the thread. I am asking what is so egregious as to create an uproar?
The removed characters were from lines that no longer have models for sale (unless I am mistaken). Other than Sly, since catachans are still out there. The characters became counts as HQ and champion models.
Musashi363 wrote: I'm just waiting for the next great supplement: CADIA! That will be a breath of fresh air.
I would buy a Cadian supplement.
I love Cadia and the background surrounding the planet and the Cadian Shock Troops, so it'd be great for me...
Luckily for you, the AM codex is already codex Cadia (hence why its so bland and basic )
If they bring out supplement Cadia I will be more annoyed than usual with GW wasting potential again.
But yes I find the AM codex incredibly boring and unless something changes I will not be buying the next AM codex. I cant even read the book, I have only looked in the rules section and I got it on release day. I used to hate my 5th edition book too, but now I look back at the 5th edition one and wish I liked it while I could haha.
2014/07/09 21:09:36
Subject: Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
They did a Black Legion supplement to Codex: Chaos Space Marines...so...
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
2014/07/09 21:24:19
Subject: Re:Has anyone else found the AM codex a little... underwhelming?
Musashi363 wrote: I'm just waiting for the next great supplement: CADIA! That will be a breath of fresh air.
I would buy a Cadian supplement.
I love Cadia and the background surrounding the planet and the Cadian Shock Troops, so it'd be great for me...
Luckily for you, the AM codex is already codex Cadia (hence why its so bland and basic )
Not actually true. Cadia has no "Stormtroopers", no Ogryn/Bullgryn, and no Rough Riders.
Then you have the fact that depending on which source you read? They have no Commissars. They have training for anyone of Lieutenant rank or higher in how to recognize the taint of the Warp in Psykers, but by and large they don't need that whole "morale upkeep" aspect of Commissars.
And then you have the Kasrkin--the Cadian mixture of Stormtroopers and Grenadiers. They could be used for special missions or as line infantry.
If they bring out supplement Cadia I will be more annoyed than usual with GW wasting potential again.
On the contrary, there is a lot of potential for cool stuff in a Cadian supplement. New formations, new weapons, etc themed specifically around Cadia.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress 
)
