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Here's a houserule from our group everybody agreed to use in an instant.

Why would a Psyker not come prepared for a battle? Instead of rolling on a table, every Psyker can pick the powers he likes from the disciplines he's allowed to use. Psykers cost a lot of points to be decent and one roll on the start of the game can decide if those points are well spent or a complete waste. When I'm writing a list, I have a plan in my head which unit I want to do what.

Your thoughts?


On a related note: What do you think about the same thing regarding Warlord Traits?

I would have to respectfully disagree and say that selecting those would be a terrible idea. It would come to point of having 1 or 2 powers that everyone takes, same thing with warlord traits. How many people would willingly choose Scriers Gaze, especially when they can just choose Ignores Cover? Which is another reason I'm against it, my one hope of winning sometimes is hoping that they don't get one power, like Ignores Cover Obliterators, or a Daemon Prince with a 4+ FNP, Eternal Warrior, and is now S9, T8. They get that just because they choose it? The other powers might as well not be there. And the Warlord traits. I would obviously give my Necron Overlord FNP every single time, especially while he's riding on a chariot.

Now, if you were playing a narrative campaign and for story purposes you needed certain powers or traits, then yeah thats fine. But it would screw with the non-campaign oriented side.

Allows for a good amount of tailoring as well.

many of the psychic powers and warlord traits are better than others.

without imposing a system places a pts cost on what specific things are, rolling is better.

ie I would prefer not to play someone who wanted to select their powers/warlord traits.

blaktoof wrote:
without imposing a system places a pts cost on what specific things are, rolling is better.

Actually, a points cost system would be a pretty good idea, actually. Like in Fantasy, where you have magic items and armor that anyone can take. Have all of the traits and powers, but make people buy them. That would be a very easy payoff. It would never happen, mind you, but it would work.

If you could properly cost them id have no issue

But just letting them pick?


Id have 3 invisible conscript blobs all day every day.

Well, I see how Invisible can be a problem, but my group is a relaxed bunch, we know when something is too overpowered.

How about you go somewhere in between? If a Psyker takes all of there powers from the 1 disciplined, then they get to choose to 'swap' the primaris for any other single warp charge power. That way you can rely on the Psyker giving out a certain power, but most of the over powered ones are just out of reach unless you roll them. Does that sound better?

You'd need to balanc the Psychic Powers first. Without balance letting players choose with no attached cost is terrible.

How many Eldar players would choose Eldritch Storm over Fortune? How many would choose Shrouding over Invisibility? Etc...

Right now one part of Psychic Powers balance is them not being guarenteed.

I actually play with selecting warlord traits, and it works awesomely. Yes, some warlord traits are better than others, but that just means that often one (or both) players end up with a trait which does absolutely nothing for them. Most warlord traits are far from game breaking too. However, psychic powers would probably not work, especially since 7th changed psykers so that they could theoretically cast every power in 1 turn if they got lucky. Unless you did a big overhaul, picking instead of rolling doesn't work very well in 40k.

Psykers cost a lot of points?! Hahahahaa, us Tyranids can get a Zoanthrope(3+ invuln, 2 wounds) for 50 points whose mastery level 2!!

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 poolatka wrote:
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You forgot the Catalyst.

Also I'd more than happily have master of ambush every game! On my Nids, here's my guaranteed infiltrating Monsterous creatures.mdeal with them.

''...When game designers use random dice rolls , to replace game balance and considered player choices.It has all gone horribly wrong some where...''

Lanrak wrote:
''...When game designers use random dice rolls , to replace game balance and considered player choices.It has all gone horribly wrong some where...''

But the imbalance of power between psychic powers within each discipline, is so bad that not guareenting that your seer council will be invisible every game is the only balance we have.

Can we say....welcome back, deathstars? Fortune and Invisiblity on the seer council or beaststar. Gate of Infinity, Invisibility and Ignore Cover on the centurionstar. A Daemon army where 8 Tzeentch Heralds that can all turn into Lord of Changes. Every single Daemon Prince with Iron Arm and Invisibility. The list of abuses go on and on.

As long as you don't abuse it, it could work in a Narrative/friendly game. However, people have a tendency to abuse stuff.

You'd just have to go back to codex specific powers only.

Eldercaveman wrote:
You'd just have to go back to codex specific powers only.

I wouldn't mind if an Eldar player picks Death Mission, but somehow, I'm betting he is more likely than not to take Fortune....

You'd either need to ensure all powers are equally balanced, or assign them points cost.

It'd probably be easier to tone down the worst of the powers, and then give them points ranging from free to 15pts.

 Desubot wrote:
If you could properly cost them id have no issue

This.
Rolling for your powers is a crummy way to enforce "balance" - they should have just designed them to all be useful in the first place, and let players equip them like wargear (the way Blood Angels and Space Wolves used to before 7th edition).

3rd edition had point costs for psychic powers (played Eldar). Good times.

Random psychic power rolls are not balance, it is see-saw gaming. I win. You win. I win. You win.
Random warlord traits are just frustratingly useless most of the time. Saw an Eldar Avatar roll Inspiring Presence while the enemy rolled Night Attacker. Pick and choose and assign point costs if necessary.

The problem with pick and choose (and no points cost) is a few armies get some pretty over powering tactics.

I'm a Guard player. I'm already fielding 3 Primaris Psykers at Mastery Level 2 and 3 Wyrdvane Psyker Squads. Yes, I'm spending 600 pts. But I'm getting 36 wounds, 3 force weapons and 15 psychic powers. Now I get to make sure each squad has the best psychic powers? I will overpower many an opponent if I can pick my powers.

I would be fine with going back to paying for your psychic powers. Just at long as you know what you're getting and can actually make a plan with the powers, instead of now where you do a Hail Mary for every dice roll.

Now curiosity.

What about point values for Psychic powers (if you want to choose) or random?

For example (point values are arbitrary, just making this simple),
Primaris = 1 point
Power 1 = 2 points
Power 2 = 3 points
Power 3 = 4 points
Power 4 = 5 points
Power 5 = 6 points
Power 6 = 7 points

Player 1 wants powers 3 and 4 on their psyker and so pays 10 points (9 points for power 3 and 4, 1 point for the Primaris due to Psychic Focus).
Player 2 wants to roll, because he prefers randomization (the fool), so he does not have to pay points.

Here is an idea. How often to you guys game? Do you get a lot of games in? If so, each game you have to pick a new trait and can't use the same trait until ALL Traits have been USED.

So this way, yes you can pick and choose what you want, and next game, the trait that has been used is scratched off and can't be used again.

Same thing for psychic powers. So now really makes you think what you want to take.

It's only fair that the traits powers that never get chosen will be used just as often as the traits powers that get picked all the time.

Then again, if it's only you guys playing and everyone agrees to it, then why the hell not and do it and have fun.

 Happyjew wrote:
Now curiosity.

What about point values for Psychic powers (if you want to choose) or random?

For example (point values are arbitrary, just making this simple),
Primaris = 1 point
Power 1 = 2 points
Power 2 = 3 points
Power 3 = 4 points
Power 4 = 5 points
Power 5 = 6 points
Power 6 = 7 points

Player 1 wants powers 3 and 4 on their psyker and so pays 10 points (9 points for power 3 and 4, 1 point for the Primaris due to Psychic Focus).
Player 2 wants to roll, because he prefers randomization (the fool), so he does not have to pay points.

No. Player 2 getting good powers without having to pay for them through luck whereas Player 1 pays for them puts P2 at an advantage. There's enough random advantages already.

Based on the current design ethos at GW at the moment there is no way you can do this, because the psychic powers are borderline broken as it is. If you let people pick then you HAVE to make people pay a points cost to get the different powers, because no sane person is going to pick Shrouding over Invis etc. This is a common issue that isn't just limited to psychic powers, where GW have been refusing to balance some aspects of the game and then putting a layer of randomness over the top which gives the illusion of balance without them actually needing to do any real work.