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Relapse wrote:
I don't accept your premise when you speak of proportion of users. If there were a medicine or other item that caused the mayhem alcohol does, people would be up in arms. Remove alcohol magically and no one would be the worse for it. They would, in fact be better if it happened.

And if you actually wanted to discuss the issues surrounding alcohol and how to limit or prevent them in good faith I would be more inclined to reply to you. However, using this thread and others as a back door, non-comparison to further your beliefs about gun control is not something I feel like taking part in.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
I am more against alcohol than I am against guns, amusingly.

I'll drink to that!

Sickness and injuries kill everybody, but OP is anti-ObamaCare so it's hard for me to take him in earnest when he is against saving lives.

(Am I doing it right?)

 d-usa wrote:
Sickness and injuries kill everybody, but OP is anti-ObamaCare so it's hard for me to take him in earnest when he is against saving lives.

(Am I doing it right?)

No, I think you need to say that way more people die from sickness and injuries so we need to ban healthcare because clearly it is not as safe as guns.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

Relapse wrote:
I don't accept your premise when you speak of proportion of users. If there were a medicine or other item that caused the mayhem alcohol does, people would be up in arms. Remove alcohol magically and no one would be the worse for it. They would, in fact be better if it happened.

And if you actually wanted to discuss the issues surrounding alcohol and how to limit or prevent them in good faith I would be more inclined to reply to you. However, using this thread and others as a back door, non-comparison to further your beliefs about gun control is not something I feel like taking part in.

Yet here you are, multiple times.

Relapse wrote:
Yet here you are, multiple times.

Pointing out what is going on in this thread isn't, I don't think, furthering the goals I posit you had upon starting this thread. Plus I am avoiding doing some validation analysis of a large amount of clinical data and even this thread is less painful than thinking about that...

 d-usa wrote:
Sickness and injuries kill everybody, but OP is anti-ObamaCare so it's hard for me to take him in earnest when he is against saving lives.

(Am I doing it right?)

Are you blaming the victim?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That didn't last long

 SilverMK2 wrote:
And if you actually wanted to discuss the issues surrounding alcohol and how to limit or prevent them in good faith I would be more inclined to reply to you. However, using this thread and others as a back door, non-comparison to further your beliefs about gun control is not something I feel like taking part in.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
No, I think you need to say that way more people die from sickness and injuries so we need to ban healthcare because clearly it is not as safe as guns.

Relapse wrote:

If there were a medicine or other item that caused the mayhem alcohol does, people would be up in arms.

Some might be, but most probably wouldn't. In all likelihood it would be a niche issue.

Relapse wrote:

Remove alcohol magically and no one would be the worse for it. They would, in fact be better if it happened.

That's debatable, given that mental health is important and access to recreational drugs is something which helps people remain mentally healthy.

Except there are many many alternatives to Alcohol(and other drugs) if you need a distraction.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Except there are many many alternatives to Alcohol(and other drugs) if you need a distraction.

Mere distraction isn't enough, sometimes you need a certain type of distraction; be it music, going for a drive, going shooting, or a beer. They can all play the same roll, but they won't do so for different people.

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

If there were a medicine or other item that caused the mayhem alcohol does, people would be up in arms.

Some might be, but most probably wouldn't. In all likelihood it would be a niche issue.

Relapse wrote:

Remove alcohol magically and no one would be the worse for it. They would, in fact be better if it happened.

That's debatable, given that mental health is important and access to recreational drugs is something which helps people remain mentally healthy.

However, since 2 out of 3 domestic abuse cases involve alcohol, along with all of the mental health issues that go hand in hand with alcohol use, I will have to differ with you on that.

I can get the same mental high drinking with my friends no matter what we are drinking.

And if someone who had an alcohol dependency suddenly couldn't get any, he'd just go through detox and then find another substitute.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I can get the same mental high drinking with my friends no matter what we are drinking.

So what?

Grey Templar wrote:I can get the same mental high drinking with my friends no matter what we are drinking.

And if someone who had an alcohol dependency suddenly couldn't get any, he'd just go through detox and then find another substitute.

kronk wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I can get the same mental high drinking with my friends no matter what we are drinking.

So what?

Kronk going to watch you all go through detox. Your substitutes have already been Kronked.

Kronk is a substitute.

Relapse wrote:

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

If there were a medicine or other item that caused the mayhem alcohol does, people would be up in arms.

Some might be, but most probably wouldn't. In all likelihood it would be a niche issue.

Relapse wrote:

Remove alcohol magically and no one would be the worse for it. They would, in fact be better if it happened.

That's debatable, given that mental health is important and access to recreational drugs is something which helps people remain mentally healthy.

However, since 2 out of 3 domestic abuse cases involve alcohol, along with all of the mental health issues that go hand in hand with alcohol use, I will have to differ with you on that.

And suicidal people use guns a lot. So what?

And this is where this thread and you lose all credibility. This would be a worthwhile thread with lots of valid issues to talk about. But it just ends up turning into "therefore gun control is stupid because alcohol" and whatever valid motivation you might have is lost with that attempt at deflection.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Kronk is a substitute.

Kronk. Get's gak done.

Relapse wrote:

However, since 2 out of 3 domestic abuse cases involve alcohol...

But was alcohol the cause of the domestic abuse?

Relapse wrote:

...along with all of the mental health issues that go hand in hand with alcohol use, I will have to differ with you on that.

Alcohol abuse, not alcohol use. A person that has a drink every day isn't the same as one who has 12.

Since one of my assignments for school was to use and search the CDC WONDER database I decided to do a search for deaths by cause as reported to the CDC from all death certificates.

Alcohol: 7.2 per 100,000
Firearms: 10.3 per 100,000

So there is that.

It's really called the WONDER database?

 SilverMK2 wrote:
However, guns are entierly unrequired by society. Remove guns magically this second and Lmost no one will be the worse for it. In fact a lot of people who would have otherwise gone on to get shot will live.

I'm no gun advocate but I can immediately see the flaw in your thoughts. I've highlighted it.

Even if legislation miraculously passed that not only prohibited gun sales, but demanded a house to house sweep for all guns in America, some people would keep them. Those people are most likely going to be the "bad" people. Gang bangers, drug dealers, criminals, crazy apocalypse folk, or the mentally disturbed nuts who think owning guns brings them power over life and death.

You cannot magically remove guns. America had the option of gun-violence free or armed to da teef in case we need em, and we picked the latter. No changing the course of the train we are on now.

 MrDwhitey wrote:
It's really called the WONDER database?

It truly is

Wide-ranging Online Data for Epidemiologic Research

 Thunderfrog wrote:
You cannot magically remove guns.

Wow, you have blown my mind with this point. I really believed that if I tried hard enough I could wish guns out of the world! Not to mention turn bad people into pixie dust and rainbows!

I worry that one day, somebody will invent guns that fire alcohol at people. It would be the end of civilization as we know it.

Super soaker loaded with Vodka? What could possibly go wrong with that? I can only see good times ahead.

 stanman wrote:
Super soaker loaded with Vodka? What could possibly go wrong with that? I can only see good times ahead.

And if needed it can also be used as a flamethrower.

It's why they stock so much vodka, to keep American tanks at bay while they are busy invading Ukraine.



A video clip of the drunk Russian hillbillies attacking their own tractor with a flaming torch, re-enacting a WWII battle. One guy is nearly run over and another guy gets lit on fire, pretty epic. Attempting to cure boredom in winter with alcohol fueled escapades what could go wrong?


http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aa5_1387519236&comments=1

 d-usa wrote:

 MrDwhitey wrote:
It's really called the WONDER database?

It truly is

Wide-ranging Online Data for Epidemiologic Research

Say whatever you like about the US government They are marvelous at acronyms.

 stanman wrote:
Super soaker loaded with Vodka? What could possibly go wrong with that? I can only see good times ahead.

A bar I went to in college used to have scantily waitresses walk around with squirt guns loaded with tequila.

 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Thunderfrog wrote:
You cannot magically remove guns.

Wow, you have blown my mind with this point. I really believed that if I tried hard enough I could wish guns out of the world! Not to mention turn bad people into pixie dust and rainbows!

Thats fine, leave out the relevant part.