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2014/07/19 08:27:52
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: September 18/14)
I've heard from more than one of you how much you guys loved my Chapter Creator. Many have wanted me to create a more fleshed out, balanced version of my Chapter Creator for some time now. Sadly I've pushed it off to do other projects, most of which have been less than popular (much to my dismay). However, I no longer feel burned out working on the Chapter Creator, so with that said...Ladies and Gentlement....
CHAPTER CREATOR 7TH EDITION IS WELL UNDERWAY
Sadly this is still very much a work in progress, but much has already been completed. Instead of a PDF, I'll be using these forums to post content and ideas for feedback. Once everything is more solid and ready for a document, I'll release a nice, shiny PDF for people to grab.
INTRO Alright, so the 6th Edition of Codex: Space Marine has given this project a new lease on life, as well as new methods of creating chapters which, in my opinion, are vastly superior to the old methods I employed with the previous version of the Chapter Creator. I'll be keeping a list here of what stage each part of development of the project is so everyone can get a quick overview.
Chapter Tactics (70% Complete)
Chapter Relics (10% Complete)
Space Marine Heroes (10% Complete)
Company Tactics (Not Yet Started)
Note that anything in any rules section in a set of double brackets is not rules, but instead just my developer thoughts and ideas to provide some insight or to let people know where stuff is rough or needs work (or potential ideas).
CHAPTER TACTICS A: LINEAGES So ever since Codex: Space Marine (6th Edition) came out, I've been thinking of new ways to balance things in clever ways. The way I've decided upon doing it I haven't fully fleshed out yet, but it would work something like what is stated below (in the first spoiler box). I'm torn between leaving it as it is or making it a bit deeper/more complex (though I'm afraid that, in doing so, it'll just make it needlessly complex).
The first step in Chapter Tactics creation is to choose what type of Chapter you're going to create using what I call Chapter Lineage. Note that the Chapter Tactics in Codex: Space Marines are ignored when using these rules (which also attempts to balance out the Chapter Tactics which are already in the Codex). I think it also goes without saying that these rules do require you own a copy of Codex: Space Marines (6th Edition) to use.
Spoiler:
PROUD LINEAGE * You must choose one of the following combinations of Chapter Tactics.
** Ultramarines (Combat Tactics / Tyrannic War Veterans)
** White Scars (Fight on the Move / Born in the Saddle)
** Imperial Fists (Bolter Drill / Siege Masters)
** Black Templars (Crusaders / Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds)
** Iron Hands (Machine Empathy / The Flesh is Weak)
** Salamanders (Master Artisans / Flamecraft)
** Raven Guard (Strike from the Shadows / Winged Deliverance)
* Characters in a detachment belonging to this chapter have access to the Astartes Relics and the appropriate Relics list of the chosen Lineage Chapter, from the Relics section of this document ((this section is still a WIP)). If Black Templars are selected, they have access to the Imperial Fists Chapter Relics.
* Models in a detachment belonging to this chapter, which also have the Chapter Tactics special rule, gain the Proud Legacy special rule.
** Proud Legacy: Units with this special rule, or which include a model with this special rule, may re-roll failed Morale tests.
* A detachment using rules for this chapter may take named characters from Codex: Space Marines (so long as they share the same Lineage, represented by the chapter in brackets beside their Chapter Tactics special rule).
DIVERGENT LINEAGE These are chapters which still know and abide by certain tenants laid down by their chapter's lineage, but deviate from the primary tactics of their legion lineage.
* Choose a single Lineage from the list below. You may select one Major Trait and one Minor Trait OR two Minor Traits available to that Lineage (each Lineage will have its own set number of both Major and Minor Traits; the final document will have a proper listing here instead of later on).
** Ultramarines
** White Scars
** Imperial Fists
** Black Templars
** Iron Hands
** Salamanders
** Raven Guard
* Characters in a detachment belonging to this chapter have access to the Astartes Relics and the appropriate Relics list of the chosen Lineage Chapter, from the Relics section of this document ((this section is still a WIP)). If Black Templars are selected, they have access to the Imperial Fists Chapter Relics.
* Models in a detachment belonging to this chapter, which also have the Chapter Tactics special rule, gain the Proud Legacy special rule.
** Proud Legacy: Units with this special rule, or which include a model with this special rule, may re-roll failed Morale tests.
* This detachment may not include any named characters from Codex: Space Marines. Characters may be created as normal, using the rules found later on in the Hero Creator section of this document. ((Also thinking about having each Lineage have a set of one or two Drawbacks, which they would have to take one of if they went with this type of Chapter. Need some input on this one though. ))
LOST LINEAGE These chapters are chapters which have either forsaken their lineage entirely or have completely lost it. With no tactical guidance due to lineage, these chapters are far more tactically unbound but do not possess the strong bonds and ties that other chapter's have with their lineages.
* You must take a single Major Trait from one lineage and a single Minor Trait from a different lineage OR you must take two Minor Traits from two separate lineages.
* This chapter and other Armies of the Imperium treat each other as Allies of Convenience.
* Detachments belonging to a Lost Lineage chapter may only take Astartes Relics from the Chapter Relics section of this document. (( Once again, the Chapter Relics section is still very early WIP. ))
(( Once again, should Lineages have 1-2 Drawbacks each? If so, I'd say that Lost Lineage has to take one Drawback from each Lineage they take a Chapter Tactic from. Having one Drawback per Lineage would prevent cherry picking, but may also limit players in unpleasant ways. So there's room for debate on the subject of Drawbacks. ))
OUTCAST LINEAGE These are chapters which have certain traits, tactics, or features which have earned them the distrust of the other Armies of the Imperium. (( Note that Outcast Lineages only have Major Traits, they lack Minor Traits and simply use the Minor Traits of any other lineage. ))
* You must take a single Major Trait from from the Outcast lineage, in addition to a single Minor Trait from any other lineage.
* Detachments belonging to a Lost Lineage chapter may only take Astartes Relics from the Chapter Relics section of this document. (( Once again, the Chapter Relics section is still very early WIP. ))
* This chapter and other Armies of the Imperium treat each other as Desperate Allies.
(( Again, drawbacks: good idea, bad idea, required idea but needs tweaking restrictions? ))
CHAPTER TACTICS B: CHAPTER TRAITS When the document is released, this section will go hand-in-hand with the Lineage section above. This section details all of the current Chapter Traits, as well as a section showing the WIP lineages (some require more Major and/or Minor Traits be added). These aren't finalized either, so if you have ideas let 'em rip. Just remember that I'd like each of the Lineages to have an equal number of Major and Minor Traits.
LINEAGE TRAITS
Spoiler:
ULTRAMARINES MAJOR TRAITS * Combat Tactics
* Honed Senses
* Purity Above All
MINOR TRAITS * A Legacy of Hatred
* Armageddon War Veterans
* Company of Heroes
* Damocles Crusade Veterans
* Honour Above All Else
* Overflowing Armoury
* Prognosticators
* Reckless Courage
* To the Last Breath
* Tyrannic War Veterans
* Veterans of the Black Crusades
WHITE SCARS MAJOR TRAITS * Fight on the Move
* Guerrilla Tactics
MINOR TRAITS * A Legacy of Hatred
* A Scouts Worth
* Armageddon War Veterans
* Bring the Fight to Them
* Born in the Saddle
* Damocles Crusade Veterans
* For Whom the Bell Tolls
* Hussars
* Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well
* Tranquility Snipers
* Veterans of the Black Crusades
IMPERIAL FISTS MAJOR TRAITS * Bolter Drill
* The Gauntlet
* Pragmatic Heroes
MINOR TRAITS * A Legacy of Hatred
* Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds
* Armageddon War Veterans
* Damocles Crusade Veterans
* Grim Trophies
* Heavy Siege Equipment
* Orbital Wave Attack
* Reckless Courage
* Siege Masters
* To the Last Breath
* Veterans of the Black Crusades
BLACK TEMPLARS MAJOR TRAITS *Crusaders
* Purity Above All
* Suffer Not the Unclean to Live
MINOR TRAITS * A Legacy of Hatred
* Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch
* Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds
* Armageddon War Veterans
* Bring the Fight to Them
* Damocles Crusade Veterans
* Faith is it's Own Reward
* Flamecraft
* Reckless Courage
* Veterans of the Black Crusades
IRON HANDS MAJOR TRAITS * Hail of Destruction
* The Flesh is Weak
* Vigilance Unrivalled
MINOR TRAITS * A Legacy of Hatred
* Company of Heroes
* Damocles Crusade Veterans
* Fortitude and Contempt
* Heed the Wisdom of the Ancients
* Iron Fathers
* Machine Empathy
* Overflowing Armoury
* Scions of Mars
* Veterans of the Black Crusades
SALAMANDERS MAJOR TRAITS * Master Artisans
* Remorseless
MINOR TRAITS * Armageddon War Veterans
* Bright as Starlight
* Flamecraft
* Overflowing Armoury
* Siege Masters
* Strength of Body
* Strength of Will
* To the Last Breath
* Veneration of Wrath
* Veterans of the Black Crusades
RAVEN GUARD MAJOR TRAITS * Rapid Attack
* Speed and Fury
* Strike from the Shadows
MINOR TRAITS * A Scouts Worth
* Armageddon War Veterans
* Damocles Crusade Veterans
* For Whom the Bell Tolls
* Know Your Enemy
* Legendary Marksmen
* Peerless Piloting
* Trained Assassins
* Veterans of the Black Crusades
* Winged Deliverance
The following are the current Traits. PLEASE NOTE: These have not been fully or extensively playtested yet and there is bound to be imbalances. Please let me know if you think anything is a bit too underpowered or overpowered compared to the other traits, and we'll see what we can do to fix it.
MAJOR TRAITS
Spoiler:
= Bolter Drill =
Units in this detachment may re-roll failed To Hit rolls of 1 with bolt weapons. Furthermore, they may re-roll all failed To Hit rolls with bolt weapons, so long as the target is within half the weapon's range.
= By Wings & Talons =
Infantry units in this detachment, excluding those equipped with jump packs or those with any variation of the Bulky special rule, gain the Fleet and Infiltrate special rules. All Bike units and all other Infantry units in this detachment gain the Furious Charge special rule instead.
= Combat Tactics =
See Codex: Space Marines.
= Crusaders =
Units in this detachment gain the Adamantium Will and Crusader special rules. Vanguard Veteran Squads in this detachment gain the Counter-attack special rule.
In addition, a chapter with this Chapter Tactic have access to Crusader Squads (see Codex: Space Marines).
= Fight on the Move =
See Codex: Space Marines.
= The Flesh is Weak =
See Codex: Space Marines.
= The Gauntlet =
Tactical Squads in this detachment which are ten models strong may all replace their boltguns or bolt pistols for storm shields for 10 points per model. Infantry upgraded in such a fashion may not take options from the Heavy Weapons list, but may take a second option from the Special Weapons list instead. Furthermore, Tactical Squads equipped with storm shields may not take a dedicated transport, and may not Run or perform Sweeping Advances.
In addition, Vanguard Veteran Squads and Terminator Assault Squads in this detachment equipped with a storm shield have the Hammer of Wrath special rule, and gain +1 Toughness if they are both equipped with a storm shield and are in coherency with at least two other models of the same chapter in the same unit, who are also equipped with a storm shield. Note that this increased Toughness is ignored for the purposes of determining Instant Death from high Strength attacks.
= Guerrilla Tactics =
Infantry units in this detachment, excluding models with any variation of the Bulky special rule, gain the Hammer of Wrath and Move Through Cover special rules. Furthermore, this unit gains the Furious Charge special rule whenever it assaults out of a piece of terrain which provided a cover save.
= Hail of Destruction =
Units in this detachment may count their boltguns, combi-weapons firing as boltguns, and storm bolters as being Salvo 2/3 instead of their normal weapon type, while heavy bolters may be treated as being Salvo 4/5. You must declare you are using this rule before any To Hit rolls are made, otherwise the weapon's default type is used.
This rule does not apply to any bolt weapons using any type of special issue ammunition.
= Honed Senses =
Units in this detachment gain the Acute Senses, Counter-attack, and Night Vision special rules.
= Master Artisans =
Each character in this detachment may upgrade one of his weapons to have the Master-crafted special rule at no additional cost. In addition, vehicles in this detachment have the ceramite plating upgrade at no additional cost, even if they would normally not be allowed to take it.
= Merciless =
Units in this detachment, including all variations of Dreadnoughts, gain +1 Attack if the combat they are in contains less enemy models than friendly models (this counts all squads locked in the same combat). Furthermore, these units also gain the Rage special rule when charging an enemy unit which is already engaged in close combat.
= Pragmatic Heroes =
Units in this detachment gain +1 to their cover saves. If the unit is not already benefiting from a cover save, it gains a 6+ cover save instead. In addition, units in this detachment roll an extra D6 when rolling for fall back distance, discarding the lowest result.
= Purity Above All =
Any Veteran Sergeant or Terminator Sergeant in this detachment may be given a narthecium as no added cost. This must always be represented on the model.
= Rapid Attack =
Units in this detachment gain the Acute Senses and Outflank special rules. In addition, Bike units in this detachment gain the Skilled Rider special rule, while Land Speeders in this detachment gain the Scout special rule.
= Remorseless =
Units in this detachment gain the Fleet and Move Through Cover special rules. Furthermore, units in this detachment automatically pass any Pinning tests they are called on to take.
= Speed and Fury =
Command Squads and Honour Guard units in this detachment may be entirely upgraded to have jump packs for +3 points per model. Jump Infantry units in this detachment automatically pass any Dangerous Terrain tests they are required to take, count their ranged weapons as being Twin-linked on the turn they arrive into play from Deep Strike, and add 1 to their Strength when resolving their Hammer of Wrath attacks (when using their jump packs in the Assault Phase).
= Strike from the Shadows =
Units in this detachment, excluding models with any variation of the Bulky special rule, gain the Scout and Stealth special rules.
= Suffer Not the Unclean to Live =
Units in this detachment, including all variations of Dreadnoughts, gain the Furious Charge special rule. In addition, units in this detachment automatically pass any Pinning tests they are required to take, and they replace And They Shall Know No Fear with the Fearless special rule when engaged in close combat.
= Vigilance Unrivalled =
Units in this detachment have the Adamantium Will and Stubborn special rules. Furthermore, units in this detachment within 3" of an objective replace their And They Shall Know No Fear special rule with the Fearless special rule and improve their Feel No Pain save by one (to a maximum Feel No Pain save of 3+). Units without Feel No Pain will gain the Feel No Pain (6+) special rule instead of improving it.
MINOR TRAITS
Spoiler:
= A Legacy of Hatred =
Select one of the Codexs from the list below. Units in this detachment have the Hatred and Preferred Enemy special rules against all units from the chosen Codex.
* Chaos Daemons
* Chaos Space Marines
* Eldar (includes Dark Eldar)
* Necrons
* Orks
* Tau Empire
* Tyranids
= A Scouts Worth =
This detachment has access to Veteran Scout Squads (see the Dataslates section of this document). (( Note that I'm still working on these Dataslates. These are essentially Scout Squads but with better WS and BS and some bonus special rules. ))
= Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch =
Units in this detachment have the Hatred (Psykers) special rule and benefit from the effects of Hatred each turn in close combat, instead of just on the turn in which the unit charges. In addition, during your opponent's Psychic Phase, you will generate one Warp Charge for each Emperor's Champion, Chaplain, Warden, Crusader Squad, and Vanguard Veteran Squad in this detachment.
However, this detachment may not or be allied with any models with the Psyker, Psychic Pilot, or Brotherhood of Psykers special rules.
= Accept Any Challenge, No Matter the Odds =
When engaged in a challenge, characters in this detachment re-roll all failed To Hit rolls and have the Rending special rule. In addition, a chapter with this Chapter Tactic have access to the Emperor's Champion (see Codex: Space Marines).
= Armageddon War Veterans =
Sternguard Veteran Squads in this detachment have the Preferred Enemy (Orks) special rule. Furthermore, all models in a Sternguard Veteran Squad in this detachment have the Zealot special rule if the enemy army includes one or more models from Codex: Orks.
= Born in the Saddle =
See Codex: Space Marines.
= Bright as Starlight =
Units in this detachment may re-roll failed armour saves against Wounds caused by the Gets Hot special rule on plasma weapons. Furthermore, units in this detachment may re-roll failed To Hit rolls of 1 with lascannons.
= Bring the Fight to Them =
Any model in a Tactical Squad in this detachment may replace their boltgun for a combat knife or chainsword for free, or be equipped with a chainsword or combat knife for 1 point per model.
= Company of Heroes =
You may include a Chaplain, Librarian, or Master of the Forge in this detachment in the same fashion as you would a Techmarine. You cannot include the same type of unit in this fashion more than once.
In addition, an independent character (excluding Techmarines, Wardens, and Lexicanums) may take either a five man Terminator Squad or Terminator Assault Squad instead of a Command Squad. A single Terminator in these squads may be upgraded to a Terminator Apothecary and given a narthecium for 15 points. A single Terminator in these squads may be upgraded to have either a Company Standard for 15 points or a Standard of the Emperor (one per army) for 65 points.
= Damocles Crusade Veterans =
Sternguard Veteran Squads in this detachment have the Preferred Enemy (Tau Empire) special rule. Furthermore, all models in a Sternguard Veteran Squad in this detachment have the Zealot special rule if the enemy army includes one or more models from Codex: Tau Empire.
= Faith is it's Own Reward =
Detachments belonging to this chapter have access to Wardens and Masters of Sanctity (see Dataslates section).
= Flamecraft =
Models in this detachment can re-roll their saving rolls against wounds caused by flamer weapons. Flamer weapons used by models in this detachment may re-roll failed To Wound rolls and Armour Penetration rolls that do not result in glancing or penetrating hits.
Furthermore, units with access to the Heavy Weapons wargear list in this detachment always count as Sternguard Veterans for the purposes of taking a Heavy Flamer.
= For Whom the Bell Tolls =
Units in this detachment have the Preferred Enemy (Characters) special rule. Furthermore, characters in this detachment engaged in challenges treat all of their To Wound rolls of 6 as having the Instant Death special rule.
= Fortitude and Contempt =
Models in this detachment have the Adamantium Will special rule and may re-roll all failed Pinning tests. However, units in this detachment may not voluntarily Go to Ground, may only ally with Armies of the Imperium, and may not take camo cloaks.
= Grim Trophies =
Units in this detachment have the Fear special rule and always count as having scored one additional unsaved Wound during the Assault Phase for the purposes of combat results.
= Heavy Siege Equipment =
Detachments belonging to this chapter have access to the Space Marine Basilisk (see Dataslates section), and may take up to three Whirlwinds as a single Heavy Support choice.
= Heed the Wisdom of the Ancients =
Dreadnoughts and Ironclad Dreadnoughts may be taken as heavy support choices as well as elites choices in this detachment, while Venerable Dreadnoughts may be taken as HQ choices as well as elites choices in this detachment. Furthermore, a single Venerable Dreadnought in this detachment can be made your Warlord, even if it is not an HQ choice, and may replace his power fist for a Melee weapon Chapter Relic for the relic's appropriate points cost.
= Honour Above All Else =
Any Independent Character taken as an HQ choice in this detachment, excluding Techmarines, Wardens and Lexicanums, may take a unit of Honour Guard. Furthermore, units of Honour Guard may also be taken as elites choices.
= Hussar Veterans =
Any Vanguard Veteran Squads or units of Honour Guard in this detachment may be entirely equipped with Space Marine bikes for 7 points per model. In addition, all Vanguard Veteran Squads, Honour Guard, Command Squads, and Independent Characters in this detachment equipped with Space Marine bikes have the Skilled Rider special rule.
= Iron Fathers =
Detachments belonging to this chapter have access to Iron Fathers (see Dataslates section). Furthermore, any Chapter Master, Captain, or Terminator Captain in this detachment (that is not equipped with a jump pack) may take a servo-arm for +25 points.
= Machine Empathy =
See Codex: Space Marines.
= Know Your Enemy =
Units in this detachment arriving from Reserves have the Preferred Enemy special rule. Mark these units appropriately to represent that they are from reserves, such as a token or counter. Furthermore, if this detachment are allies for another detachment, all units in this allied detachment must start the game in reserves.
= Knowledge is Power, Guard it Well =
Detachments belonging to this chapter have access to Lexicanums and Masters of the Librarium (see Dataslates section).
= Legendary Marksmen =
Units in this detachment that do not move during the Movement Phase gain the Precision Shots (6+) special rule, and may re-roll failed To Hit rolls of 1 but only with bolt pistols, boltguns, and combi-weapons fired as boltguns.
= Overflowing Armoury =
Any models in this detachment may replace their boltgun or Melee weapon with a power weapon for 5 points, even if they would normally have an option to take one already (the lower points cost is always used in this circumstance). Furthermore, any Tactical Squads, Assault Squads, or Devastator Squads in this detachment may take combat shields for 2 points per model.
= Peerless Piloting =
Flyers in this detachment have the Venerable special rule and improve their Jink save by one. Furthermore, Flyers in this detachment ignore Crew Stunned and Crew Shaken results on a D6 roll of 2+.
= Prognosticators =
Detachments belonging to this chapter have access to Prognosticators (see Dataslates section). Furthermore, any Wardens or Chaplains in this detachment may be upgraded to have the Psyker (Mastery Level 1) special rule for +25 points.
= Reckless Courage =
Units in this detachment have the Stubborn special rule, but may never choose to automatically fail a Morale test.
= Scions of Mars =
Detachments belonging to this chapter have access to Warsmiths (see Dataslates section). Furthermore, for each HQ choice in this detachment (not including Techmarines, Wardens, Lexicanums, Servitors, Command Squads or Honour Guard) you may include up to two Techmarines. For each Master of the Forge or Warsmith in this detachment, you may include up to three Techmarines instead. These selections do not use up a Force Organization slot.
= Siege Masters =
Heavy Support units in this detachment, including vehicles, have the Tank Hunters special rule and add 1 to the result when rolling on the Building Damage table.
= Strength of Body =
Units in this detachment improve their Feel No Pain saves by one (to a maximum save of 3+) against attacks with the Poisoned special rule or against psychic powers from the Discipline of Nurgle or used by a Daemon of Nurgle. If the unit does not normally benefit from Feel No Pain, this rule will instead give them the Feel No Pain (6+) special rule against these attacks.
= Strength of Will =
Units in this detachment may re-roll failed Leadership and Pinning tests.
= To the Last Breath =
Units in this detachment reduced to less than half their original squad size (rounded up) may choose to pass or fail any Morale and Pinning tests they are called upon to take. Furthermore, you may choose to re-roll failed attempts to see if the game continues an additional turn.
= Tranquillity Snipers =
Detachments belonging to this chapter have access to Tranquillity Sniper Squads (see Dataslates section).
= Tyrannic War Veterans =
Sternguard Veteran Squads in this detachment have the Preferred Enemy (Tyranids) special rule. Furthermore, all models in a Sternguard Veteran Squad in this detachment have the Zealot special rule if the enemy army includes one or more models from Codex: Tyranids.
= Veneration of Wrath =
All meltaguns, combi-meltas fired as meltaguns, and multi-meltas wielded by models in this detachment have the Master-crafted special rule. In addition, units in this detachment increase their invulnerable save by 1 against wounds caused by melta weapons (see the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook). If they do not already have an invulnerable save, they will gain a 6+ invulnerable save against these wounds instead.
= Veterans of the Black Crusades =
Vanguard Veteran Squads in this detachment have the Preferred Enemy (Chaos Space Marines) special rule. Furthermore, all models in a Vanguard Veteran Squad in this detachment have the Zealot special rule if the enemy army includes one or more models from Codex: Chaos Space Marines.
= Winged Deliverance =
See Codex: Space Marines.
OUTCAST TRAITS
Spoiler:
= Balefire =
Units in this detachment count as being equipped with camo cloaks, cannot be harmed by flamer weapons or the Soul Blaze special rule (see the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook), and count all of their Melee attacks as having the Soul Blaze special rule. Furthermore, units in this detachment may not ride inside of Transport Vehicles (they may enter buildings normally) and enemy units firing at units in this detachment are treated as having the Night Vision special rule.
= Bone Plates =
Units in this detachment resolve any To Wound rolls against them as if they were Toughness 5 (unless they are already this Toughness or better), but are still treated as being their normal Toughness value for the purposes of Instant Death. Furthermore, units in this detachment cannot Run or perform Sweeping Advances (but may consolidate normally).
= For the Greater Good =
Units in this detachment treat Tau Empire as Battle Brothers, and models with access to Chapter Relics may take options from the Relics of the Greater Good section of this rulebook. Furthermore, Armies of the Imperium and this chapter are treated as Come the Apocalypse instead of Battle Brothers for the purposes of allies.
= Forbidden Practices =
This detachment treats units from Codex: Chaos Daemons as Allies of Convenience. In addition, units in this detachment roll 3D6 for Morale tests (discarding one die with the highest result) and models with access to Chapter Relics may take options from the Relics of the Enemy section of this rulebook.
= Ossific Spikes =
Each model in this detachment may re-roll a single To Hit roll of 1 during each player's (you and your opponent's) Assault Phase, and always count as being equipped with a combat knife (may not be replaced or upgraded). Furthermore, detachments belonging to this chapter have access to Dragon Claw Squads (see Dataslates section).
CHAPTER RELICS (( This part is a very active Work in Progress and, with that said, it needs a lot of work and gaps filled. ))
The Relics in Codex: Space Marines are not used as they are. Instead, rules for how these Relics are used can be found in the beginning of this document.
Spoiler:
ASTARTES RELICS The Armour Indomitus: See Codex: Space Marines.
The Burning Blade: See Codex: Space Marines.
Standard of the Emperor Ascendant: See Codex: Space Marines.
Teeth of Terra: See Codex: Space Marines.
ULTRAMARINES RELICS The Primarch's Wrath: See Codex: Space Marines.
WHITE SCARS RELICS x
IMPERIAL FISTS/BLACK TEMPLAR RELICS The Angel of Sacrifice (45 points): The Angel of Sacrifice can only be taken by a Chaplain, and replaces the model's crozius arcanum.
Range -, S +2, AP 4, Melee, Concussive, Only in Death
Only in Death: The bearer of the Angel of Sacrifice has the Eternal Warrior special rule. Furthermore, if the bearer of the Angel of Sacrifice loses his last Wound in the Assault phase, he is not removed as a casualty until after all close combat attacks have been resolved, and can thus still attack if he is slain either by Overwatch or by a close combat attack made at a higher Initiative step.
The Bones of Osrak (25 points): Librarians only. The bearer improves his Mastery Level by one, and can re-roll failed Psychic tests.
The Shield Eternal: See Codex: Space Marines.
The Spartean (15 points): Range 18", S 4, AP 3, Pistol, Gets Hot, Ignores Cover, Master-crafted
IRON HANDS RELICS x
SALAMANDERS RELICS x
RAVEN GUARD RELICS x
RELICS OF THE GREATER GOOD x
RELICS OF THE ENEMY (CHAOS) x
HERO CREATOR Active Work In Progress. Taking any ideas or suggestions people have as I work on this one.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2014/09/19 02:19:19
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
I am looking forward to this with great interest! The previous Chapter Creator was a lot of fun.
Edit: Two comments so far.
1) Chapters rarely have explicit disadvantages from their genetic defects. In fact, it usually gives them some sort of advantage. The Space Wolves get the option to take Mark of the Wulfen; the Blood Angels get Red Thirst.
2) I suppose you're working on this, but it would really help to have some references to the different rules. Even if it's just saying where you can look them up ("C:SM p.146"), it'd be very helpful. I don't know what some of these are.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/19 16:38:50
I'd just like to make it clear to people though, that these haven't been properly or fully play tested yet due to my current lack of a hobby store or gaming group, so some of this stuff isn't going to be perfectly balanced.
YourIntestines wrote:I will have to talk my gaming group into letting me use this.
Will the hero creator be easily modifiable for use with other races, or even Warhammer Fantasy characters?
Sadly no, it is not quite that flexible. It is designed to be balanced and the costs will be based around Space Marine units. If these rules go well though, I may consider doing a Craftworld Creator, Enclave Creator, and so on and so forth.
Angrypuffin wrote:I am looking forward to this with great interest! The previous Chapter Creator was a lot of fun.
Edit: Two comments so far.
1) Chapters rarely have explicit disadvantages from their genetic defects. In fact, it usually gives them some sort of advantage. The Space Wolves get the option to take Mark of the Wulfen; the Blood Angels get Red Thirst.
2) I suppose you're working on this, but it would really help to have some references to the different rules. Even if it's just saying where you can look them up ("C:SM p.146"), it'd be very helpful. I don't know what some of these are.
For 1) Yeah I like the idea of not having disadvantages. I tried to work the current system in a way that the more flexible you want your Chapter Traits, the less goodies you get as compared with Chapters which have a Proud or Divergent Lineage.
For 2) Have a look, things are up now. But again, word of warning, things aren't entirely balanced yet so there is plenty of work to be done.
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
2014/07/23 03:29:38
Subject: Re:Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
Chapter A: I like the progression from proud heritage to divergent, to lost, to outcast. I think the way it progresses the ability to take characters and relics is a good match with the selection of traits.
I do have one thing I dislike about the Ultramarines, which transitions into...
Chapter B:
I don't like the following traits:
Armageddon War Veterans
Damocles Crusade Veterans
Tyrannic War Veterans
Veterans of the Black Crusades
A Legacy of Hatred
and to a lesser extent Strength of Body.
These have nothing to model, and they're extremely specific to a particular type of enemy you're facing. If you pick Tyrannic War Veterans and your opponent isn't Tyranid, you've lost a huge opportunity for another benefit. Even worse, if they ARE Tyranids, then you've heavily tilted the matchup in your favor, without any real challenge.
Imagine if you've got a buddy who keeps beating you with Chaos Space Marines. And then the next time you meet, you say, "Oh, I modified my army a bit... we've dropped Honed Senses, we're now Veterans of the Black Crusades." Would that be fair?
Some of these are in the core rulebooks, and honestly I can't fathom why. They're terrible there too. It just makes matches unbalanced from the start of the game, and I think it's much better for every game to be strategically challenging. Why make some hopeless and others trivial?
Is Balefire an official rule? It seems to change a lot all at once.
All in all, looking good! I'm pleased to see it continue to progress.
2014/07/30 18:26:45
Subject: Re:Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
Chapter A: I like the progression from proud heritage to divergent, to lost, to outcast. I think the way it progresses the ability to take characters and relics is a good match with the selection of traits.
I do have one thing I dislike about the Ultramarines, which transitions into...
Chapter B:
I don't like the following traits:
Armageddon War Veterans
Damocles Crusade Veterans
Tyrannic War Veterans
Veterans of the Black Crusades
A Legacy of Hatred
and to a lesser extent Strength of Body.
These have nothing to model, and they're extremely specific to a particular type of enemy you're facing. If you pick Tyrannic War Veterans and your opponent isn't Tyranid, you've lost a huge opportunity for another benefit. Even worse, if they ARE Tyranids, then you've heavily tilted the matchup in your favor, without any real challenge.
Imagine if you've got a buddy who keeps beating you with Chaos Space Marines. And then the next time you meet, you say, "Oh, I modified my army a bit... we've dropped Honed Senses, we're now Veterans of the Black Crusades." Would that be fair?
Some of these are in the core rulebooks, and honestly I can't fathom why. They're terrible there too. It just makes matches unbalanced from the start of the game, and I think it's much better for every game to be strategically challenging. Why make some hopeless and others trivial?
Is Balefire an official rule? It seems to change a lot all at once.
All in all, looking good! I'm pleased to see it continue to progress.
Thanks for the feedback.
Yeah, a lot of the Traits still need tweaking, improving (or nerfing, in some cases), as I've said before. As for modelling I think most of the traits you labelled should be modeled, even if its just subtlety to include bits off of the selected army kits. For example, Tyrannic War Veterans should be represented to have some indication that they are what the rules say they are, which could be as simple as custom made transfers or icons or, better yet, including bits and themes which show that they have experience against the type of enemy in question.
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
2014/07/30 18:50:11
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
Modeling isn't a problem, you got trophies and dead bodies on bases appropriate to the foe.
Those traits can remain, but should be made more opponent-neutral by focusing not on a specific faction but rather its archetypical playstyle
Armageddon War Veterans - not a bonus vs Orks but a bonus vs melee swarm armies in general (like more flamers, or better rapid fire, or defensive grenades...)
Tyrannic War Veterans - bonuses vs MC (Poison, Fleshbane, Instant Death...)
Veterans of the Black Crusades - bonus vs 3+ saves (Rending, access to AP3 bolter rounds or whatever)
Damocles Crusade Veterans - this one is tricky, but maybe something to counter enemy mobility or firepower
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
2014/07/30 19:49:36
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
lord_blackfang wrote: Modeling isn't a problem, you got trophies and dead bodies on bases appropriate to the foe.
Those traits can remain, but should be made more opponent-neutral by focusing not on a specific faction but rather its archetypical playstyle
Armageddon War Veterans - not a bonus vs Orks but a bonus vs melee swarm armies in general (like more flamers, or better rapid fire, or defensive grenades...)
Tyrannic War Veterans - bonuses vs MC (Poison, Fleshbane, Instant Death...)
Veterans of the Black Crusades - bonus vs 3+ saves (Rending, access to AP3 bolter rounds or whatever)
Damocles Crusade Veterans - this one is tricky, but maybe something to counter enemy mobility or firepower
All great suggestions. The new Space Wolf codex is giving me a few ideas too in terms how to make some interesting Traits.
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
2014/07/31 06:19:07
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
lord_blackfang wrote: Modeling isn't a problem, you got trophies and dead bodies on bases appropriate to the foe.
Those traits can remain, but should be made more opponent-neutral by focusing not on a specific faction but rather its archetypical playstyle
Armageddon War Veterans - not a bonus vs Orks but a bonus vs melee swarm armies in general (like more flamers, or better rapid fire, or defensive grenades...)
Tyrannic War Veterans - bonuses vs MC (Poison, Fleshbane, Instant Death...)
Veterans of the Black Crusades - bonus vs 3+ saves (Rending, access to AP3 bolter rounds or whatever)
Damocles Crusade Veterans - this one is tricky, but maybe something to counter enemy mobility or firepower
Ah, wonderful ideas. Model the veterancy with trophies, basing, etc. And give benefits that would still make sense from the fluff without just being tailored to one army.
These examples are a little too weak, but they're the sort of thing I would like to see:
Armageddon War Veterans - Tactical squads can take Heavy Flamers as heavy weapons. (Too weak, but might be a component.)
Tyrannic War Veterans - Tactical squads can load their bolters with hellfire rounds for +10 points.
Veterans of the Black Crusades - Tactical squads can load their bolters with vengeance rounds for +10 points.
Damocles Crusade Veterans - Tactical squads can have the Stealth rule for +10 points.
2014/08/02 18:24:52
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
Gunslinger's wrath: All models in this detatchment may purchase plasma pistols or Grav pistols for 7 points instead of their normal cost. In the assault phase, treat all models armed with 2 pistols as having +1 WS and +1 initiative.
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2014/08/04 22:05:19
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
lord_blackfang wrote: Modeling isn't a problem, you got trophies and dead bodies on bases appropriate to the foe.
Those traits can remain, but should be made more opponent-neutral by focusing not on a specific faction but rather its archetypical playstyle
Armageddon War Veterans - not a bonus vs Orks but a bonus vs melee swarm armies in general (like more flamers, or better rapid fire, or defensive grenades...)
Tyrannic War Veterans - bonuses vs MC (Poison, Fleshbane, Instant Death...)
Veterans of the Black Crusades - bonus vs 3+ saves (Rending, access to AP3 bolter rounds or whatever)
Damocles Crusade Veterans - this one is tricky, but maybe something to counter enemy mobility or firepower
Ah, wonderful ideas. Model the veterancy with trophies, basing, etc. And give benefits that would still make sense from the fluff without just being tailored to one army.
These examples are a little too weak, but they're the sort of thing I would like to see:
Armageddon War Veterans - Tactical squads can take Heavy Flamers as heavy weapons. (Too weak, but might be a component.)
Tyrannic War Veterans - Tactical squads can load their bolters with hellfire rounds for +10 points.
Veterans of the Black Crusades - Tactical squads can load their bolters with vengeance rounds for +10 points.
Damocles Crusade Veterans - Tactical squads can have the Stealth rule for +10 points.
Good ideas, but not sure about the heavy flamers part as this documents Flamecraft already unlocks it as a choice.
Eihnlazer wrote:Theres one trait we definitely need.
Gunslinger's wrath: All models in this detatchment may purchase plasma pistols or Grav pistols for 7 points instead of their normal cost. In the assault phase, treat all models armed with 2 pistols as having +1 WS and +1 initiative.
I'd rather not do stat buffs like that, it makes the choice far too good compared to other stuff. Also I think the squads that should be able to take this should be limited, or the weapons they can replace should be limited. Other than that, I like it.
Instead of the last part, what if it allowed them to use any Pistol weapon in combat as if it were a Melee weapon?
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
2014/08/12 05:40:00
Subject: Re:Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
It's true you don't want to have redundant options. Is Flamecraft already from Salamanders? If so, it should take priority. Otherwise, you might give preference to the fluffier, history-related name for the trait.
I agree that giving stats is to be avoided. Not only does it offer potentially unbalanced bonuses, it also requires more bookkeeping and risks confusion.
I'm also not sure about using Pistol weapons as melee weapons. It's the sort of thing I'd enjoy seeing in 8th edition- plasma pistols would be much better if you could use them in close combat at full strength. But I feel like it's mucking about pretty deep in the rules at that point. I'm not sure I'd want that change to be in a single codex.
2014/08/12 17:23:55
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
Angrypuffin wrote:It's true you don't want to have redundant options. Is Flamecraft already from Salamanders? If so, it should take priority. Otherwise, you might give preference to the fluffier, history-related name for the trait.
I agree that giving stats is to be avoided. Not only does it offer potentially unbalanced bonuses, it also requires more bookkeeping and risks confusion.
I'm also not sure about using Pistol weapons as melee weapons. It's the sort of thing I'd enjoy seeing in 8th edition- plasma pistols would be much better if you could use them in close combat at full strength. But I feel like it's mucking about pretty deep in the rules at that point. I'm not sure I'd want that change to be in a single codex.
Yes, this document's Flamecraft already provides Heavy Weapon options (to me it was silly that Salamanders didn't get access to them at all, was a bit of a slap to the face of Salamanders players if ya ask me).
I think if I did the Gunslinger thing, if you used the Pistol's weapon profile in the Assault phase you wouldn't get +1 Attack from having two CCW. Gives the option of having a different profile in a pinch, but at the downside that one wouldn't get the +1 Attack bonus for doing so.
AnomanderRake wrote:Do Gauntlet and Hussar Veterans stack? Skilled Rider Vanguard Vets with Storm Shields and T6? Expensive, but funny.
It currently does, but it shouldn't. XD
I'll be capping the Toughness provided by the Trait as T 5.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/13 17:39:06
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
2014/08/17 04:14:06
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
Wow this is pretty impressive, can tell you've put a lot of work into it. Obviously balancing will be an issue but I guess that's not so important with it being used in just friendly games.
Will be following with interest as I've been trying to come up with home brew rules for a mentors chapter, but struggling to find a line between keeping it fluffy and keeping it playable.
Couple of things I was thinking to add for a tech heavy, well supplied chapter. Not sure if you'd make these traits or put them somewhere else.
>Allow tactical squads to take either two special or two heavy weapons in 10 man squads. (represents a well stocked armoury and makes them a little more useful with out completely taking over other units roles)
>Allow veteran sergeants and IC's to take auspex's, signums and power field generators as war gear.
Also been considering allowing techmarines and apothecaries to be taken like priests and enginseers in guard armies (0-3) but again that could probably be easily abused so would have to be quite heavily costed.
2014/08/22 22:34:42
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
Bring The Fight To Them should state 'Combat Weapon', Combat Knives and Chainswords are just named Combat Weapons.
Purity Above All is ridiculous, 5+ FnP for all your squads? Yes please.
By Wings And Talons excludes Jump Pack units? Name makes no sense, and should be limited to Infantry units. Infiltrating Vindicators anyone?
Bright As Starlight seems like a Minor Trait in comparison to other Major Traits, for example the +1 Toughness or increased FnP.
Siege Masters is pretty mental considering how good vehicles have gotten, it'd be meta-breaking.
Angel of Sacrifice is too costly for a 2 wound character, especially considering they /already/ have a Crozius.
Bones of Osrak so OP. +1 ML should be enough, drop it down to 10pts. Considering how powerful Psychic powers are in the current edition re-rolls to psychic tests is extremely good.
The Spartean? I'd rather have a plasma pistol. Ignores Cover in one shot won't make a difference.
Also, more please!
And, I don't see why allowing allowing Techmarines and Apothecaries to be taken like Priests and Enginseers in Guard armies would be abused. There's a Major Trait that gives all of your vets a Narthecium anyway, and Techmarines aren't good enough to be game-breaking. Also, how would you cost that? Increasing the costs of Techmarines (Apothecaries aren't even a separate unit outside of HH) would just hurt players who don't want the 0-3 cap and drive Techmarines further down the pile of useful units.
Sorry for the lack of updates, been going through some real life stuffs. I'll be starting more work on this project soon again.
ragnorack1 wrote:Wow this is pretty impressive, can tell you've put a lot of work into it. Obviously balancing will be an issue but I guess that's not so important with it being used in just friendly games.
Will be following with interest as I've been trying to come up with home brew rules for a mentors chapter, but struggling to find a line between keeping it fluffy and keeping it playable.
Couple of things I was thinking to add for a tech heavy, well supplied chapter. Not sure if you'd make these traits or put them somewhere else.
>Allow tactical squads to take either two special or two heavy weapons in 10 man squads. (represents a well stocked armoury and makes them a little more useful with out completely taking over other units roles)
>Allow veteran sergeants and IC's to take auspex's, signums and power field generators as war gear.
Also been considering allowing techmarines and apothecaries to be taken like priests and enginseers in guard armies (0-3) but again that could probably be easily abused so would have to be quite heavily costed.
Not sure I like the idea of multiple heavies or specials. I'd rather things be a bit more limited for balancing reasons. Good ideas though, and I wouldn't mind seeing squads being able to take assault cannons.
As for the auspex and signum idea, like it, but not too sure about field generators.
BrotherOfBone wrote:Bring The Fight To Them should state 'Combat Weapon', Combat Knives and Chainswords are just named Combat Weapons.
Purity Above All is ridiculous, 5+ FnP for all your squads? Yes please.
By Wings And Talons excludes Jump Pack units? Name makes no sense, and should be limited to Infantry units. Infiltrating Vindicators anyone?
Bright As Starlight seems like a Minor Trait in comparison to other Major Traits, for example the +1 Toughness or increased FnP.
Siege Masters is pretty mental considering how good vehicles have gotten, it'd be meta-breaking.
Angel of Sacrifice is too costly for a 2 wound character, especially considering they /already/ have a Crozius.
Bones of Osrak so OP. +1 ML should be enough, drop it down to 10pts. Considering how powerful Psychic powers are in the current edition re-rolls to psychic tests is extremely good.
The Spartean? I'd rather have a plasma pistol. Ignores Cover in one shot won't make a difference.
Also, more please!
And, I don't see why allowing allowing Techmarines and Apothecaries to be taken like Priests and Enginseers in Guard armies would be abused. There's a Major Trait that gives all of your vets a Narthecium anyway, and Techmarines aren't good enough to be game-breaking. Also, how would you cost that? Increasing the costs of Techmarines (Apothecaries aren't even a separate unit outside of HH) would just hurt players who don't want the 0-3 cap and drive Techmarines further down the pile of useful units.
You may want to re-read a lot of the traits you posted.
Take the Fight to Them: If you can name anywhere in the new Codex: Space Marines where close combat weapons are listed as "combat weapons" I'd be willing to change it. Until then, however, the wording is pretty boiler-plate GW.
Purity Above All: First off, it's a Major Trait and has to compete with a lot of other really amazing traits. Secondly, it has to be a Veteran Sergeant (regular Sergeants can't upgrade) and it must be modeled on the figure.
By Wings and Talons: Please re-read this. Nowhere does it say that Vehicles gain the rules. Infantry (excluding Jump Packs and Bulky units) gain Fleet and Infiltrate. Bikes and Jump Infantry gain Furious Charge.
Bright as Starlight: This is already a minor trait....
Siege Masters: Do you have any game play data to back up that this is broken? If so I'd like to hear it.
Angel of Sacrifice, Bones of Osrak, The Spartean: These are all legit relics already complete with rules. :(
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
2014/09/09 03:07:47
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
Trustedsmokie73 wrote: Quick correction the spartean does not get hot. Also when can we expect another update?
Whenever I get a chance. Things are pretty hectic at work right now, so it'll be when things calm down a bit. I do try to tweak things regularly, though I'm still without a gaming table or group to playtest anything sadly. :(
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
2014/09/09 22:19:23
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
Trustedsmokie73 wrote: All right. In that case is there anything in particular that you want/need help with?
Right now the major one is testing the untested Chapter Tactics. More specifically, checking for broken Chapter Tactics combos, overpowered Chapter Tactics, and underpowered Chapter Tactics.
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
2014/09/11 03:29:39
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
Trustedsmokie73 wrote: So which Tactics are untested, and at what point would you consider a tactic over or under powered?
Virtually all of them apart from the ones present in the codex are, sadly, untested. Not asking you to test all of them of course, but any you can test would be great.
As for what I would consider overpowered: if an ability is having a greater effect on the game that a chapter tactic should, to the point where it overshadows other chapter tactics unanimously (i.e.: no brainer choices), than I would consider it to be unbalanced and in need to tweeking to bring it in line gameplay-wise with the others in the category.
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
2014/09/12 10:52:20
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
I combined it with Reckless courage for imperial fists and utilized it on drop pod tac marines, honor guard, and centaurian devestators to great effect.
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2014/09/13 03:22:54
Subject: Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
I combined it with Reckless courage for imperial fists and utilized it on drop pod tac marines, honor guard, and centaurian devestators to great effect.
Could you elaborate a bit for me, please? What did you notice was too strong about it? Was it that it was costed too cheaply? Was the effect far too strong for what it did? Let me know.
CURRENT PROJECTS Chapter Creator 7th Ed (Planning Stages)
2014/09/13 03:47:41
Subject: Re:Chapter Creator 7th Edition (Updated: July 19/14)
Blood Ravens 2nd Company (C:SM)