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I can't help but notice that in that video even the commentators, multiple times, tell the viewers not to lift with the form those guys are using. They recognize, multiple times, places where their form could be better.

The point is, as it has always been, that form is really important, and especially for beginners.

 trexmeyer wrote:
They're only dangerous if you're stupid...

Hahahahaha

I love how the thread I started for advice has just turned into pointless arguing.

 trexmeyer wrote:


Not knowing that strength training strengthens bones, ligaments, and tendons. Slow is good? You mean time under tension. A better idea would be to focus on maximizing muscle contraction. Kai Greene has a lot of stuff on the mind-body connection floating around. For strength training every rep should be executed as quickly as possible EVEN if it is done slowly.

No.... There is a place for different methods of lifting. To build more explosive muscles, you'd use a slow "down" and fast "up", or explode through the lift. By working the muscles quicker going one way, you're building that explosive muscle fiber which is good for quick steps in football, rugby and the like, as well as punching power if you're a boxer or the like. The other way to train explosive muscles, is through the use of Lifting Chains.

Doing every rep as quickly as possible is also dangerous, because you aren't really controlling the weight in the negative or "down" motion, then you have to try and apply the brakes. It just doesn't really end well for a LOT of people. EVERYTHING I've been taught (first weights coach in HS went to college for 4 years on human movement kineseology, or whatever it's called, on top of his other NCSA and other training organization's certifications, as well as being selected as a BFS pilot school) has said that ideally, for "standard" weight training you want a two count on the way down, pause for a count, and two count on the way up. This ensures you are nice and controlled in all aspects as well as proper muscle activation.

Bro Tanks and Back Pain baby! Bro Tanks and Back Pain.

 dogma wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:

Literally the funniest thing I've read all day.

Controlling the deadlift on the way down. Hahahahahahahaha. You claim to know anything about powerlifting? Oh my god, just hahahahahahahaha. Seriously? The best part is that you don'te ven know how unbelievably ignorant you are and you believe it.

Controlling a deadlift (or any lift) in the negative position is actually quite important, unless your only objective is picking up the biggest weight you can; something only important to competitive lifters. The sort of people featured in your video.

 trexmeyer wrote:
The rest of you guys lololol.

Why are you so defensive?

And I train strictly to deadlift the most amount of weight possible. Yet, that is where you attempt to "correct" my form. So, yes LMAO. Go back to your lat pulldowns and curls.


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 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:

dogma wrote:

Based on your posts you know nothing about either bodybuilding or strength training.



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Jehan-reznor wrote:Second of all, all the advice is nice but first let the fitness trainer teach you the basics, beginners usually go too quick, too heavy. Do basic training until your ligaments become stronger, also slow is good, i see too many guys throw those weights around. For example with bench press, pushing up should be the same speed as lowering it.

Once you get better, experiment with different exercises, everyone is different what works for another guy may not work for you and vice versa.

Not knowing that strength training strengthens bones, ligaments, and tendons. Slow is good? You mean time under tension. A better idea would be to focus on maximizing muscle contraction. Kai Greene has a lot of stuff on the mind-body connection floating around. For strength training every rep should be executed as quickly as possible EVEN if it is done slowly.

But no guys, everything Louie Simmons, Mark Bell, Dan Green, the Lilliebridge clan, etc teach is complete garbage and nonsense. Ignore all of it and go do DB flyes!


Edit: ITT strong ignorance. Seriously though, listen to Nuggz as far as shoulders/lats go, his are good! The rest of you guys lololol.

Woaw your narcissistic superiority complex is amazing, is your arrogance natural or do you have a self thought training routine for that too, my advice was perfectly sound, not condescending, and simple for someone who is a beginner ,

For strength training every rep should be executed as quickly as possible EVEN if it is done slowly.

What are you trying to say? explosive reps train different fibers in your muscle then if you do it slowly.

I'm 100% sure I've researched more on strength training than anyone else in this thread. So yes, I do know more and it's due to shutting up and listening to better lifters.


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 cincydooley wrote:
I can't help but notice that in that video even the commentators, multiple times, tell the viewers not to lift with the form those guys are using. They recognize, multiple times, places where their form could be better.

The point is, as it has always been, that form is really important, and especially for beginners.

Has absolutely nothing to do with controlling the weight on the way down.


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 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:


Not knowing that strength training strengthens bones, ligaments, and tendons. Slow is good? You mean time under tension. A better idea would be to focus on maximizing muscle contraction. Kai Greene has a lot of stuff on the mind-body connection floating around. For strength training every rep should be executed as quickly as possible EVEN if it is done slowly.

No.... There is a place for different methods of lifting. To build more explosive muscles, you'd use a slow "down" and fast "up", or explode through the lift. By working the muscles quicker going one way, you're building that explosive muscle fiber which is good for quick steps in football, rugby and the like, as well as punching power if you're a boxer or the like. The other way to train explosive muscles, is through the use of Lifting Chains.

Doing every rep as quickly as possible is also dangerous, because you aren't really controlling the weight in the negative or "down" motion, then you have to try and apply the brakes. It just doesn't really end well for a LOT of people. EVERYTHING I've been taught (first weights coach in HS went to college for 4 years on human movement kineseology, or whatever it's called, on top of his other NCSA and other training organization's certifications, as well as being selected as a BFS pilot school) has said that ideally, for "standard" weight training you want a two count on the way down, pause for a count, and two count on the way up. This ensures you are nice and controlled in all aspects as well as proper muscle activation.

Yes, you want a controlled descent on squats and bench. Pausing is actually great for both and pause squats are absolutely brutal. The concentric phase should always be performed at maximum speed EVEN IF THE WEIGHT IS MOVING SLOWLY. This is standard, go to any powerlifting or strength training site and they will tell you exactly that with very little variance. I've seen some argue against that and encourage lifting smoothly, but that's very rare. Again, this is only for strength training, not hypertrophy.

Slamming the bar into your chest or dropping into the hole on the squats will lead to injuries. You need to stay controlled on the descent, I agree. I explained it poorly.


Dogma, are you one those guys that posts on Olympic Weightlifting videos and tells everyone that they're doing it wrong and the weight needs to be lowered slowly and carefully?


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Also, this thread delivered the lols, but I'm done with y'all. Please do some research.

T-Nation-> Powerlifting section
Candito Strength Training
Animal YouTube Channel
Mark Bell Supertraining

are all great sources of info. Just came back here cause I couldn't find a video link. Peace weakbodies!

Wow...well this thread delivered after all.

Listen to that bro.

That's too damn funny.

Keep on keepin on with your cutoffs and zubas, bro!

Bro bro bro bro bro.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:



No.... There is a place for different methods of lifting. To build more explosive muscles, you'd use a slow "down" and fast "up", or explode through the lift. By working the muscles quicker going one way, you're building that explosive muscle fiber which is good for quick steps in football, rugby and the like, as well as punching power if you're a boxer or the like. The other way to train explosive muscles, is through the use of Lifting Chains.

Doing every rep as quickly as possible is also dangerous, because you aren't really controlling the weight in the negative or "down" motion, then you have to try and apply the brakes. It just doesn't really end well for a LOT of people. EVERYTHING I've been taught (first weights coach in HS went to college for 4 years on human movement kineseology, or whatever it's called, on top of his other NCSA and other training organization's certifications, as well as being selected as a BFS pilot school) has said that ideally, for "standard" weight training you want a two count on the way down, pause for a count, and two count on the way up. This ensures you are nice and controlled in all aspects as well as proper muscle activation.

I don't know much about lifting but I can only echo what my grandpa used to say (and he ran a gym and trained wrestlers in the 1930-60s ) *insert scottish accent* " Anyone who does weights fast is an idiot...." usually followed on by a monologue about how if you put prettyboys who do fast weights against guys who do it controlled the controlled guy will be stronger... then followed on by how the best fighters are wrestlers followed by streefighters and boxers.
Grandpa was a bit of a hard arse.

What I do is kind of extreme.

So 35 pull ups a day
Run ups (run up a wall and touch the top, usually around 8-10 feet)
5 Wall runs
100 Vaults
5 Pistons
55 push ups
100 sit ups
3 hour break
Timed sit up challenge
Timed push up challenge
Run for 2 hours.

So overall. Train how you wish to train.

Training is up to you. Not to others. Do what is comfortable for you.

I do APK (American Parkour) Training which is basically the insane version of weight lifting but less focus on lifting and more focus on flexibility, agility, and internal balance (All bodies parts getting the same amount of work)

The thing is that Abs and the sorts you see on people take a year or so to fully develop there is no quick fix in terms of exercise, it takes time and hell a lot of patience.

Well, the warning went out there, and it wasn't heeded by some. Keep it polite guys.

I think we should lock the thread before I inevitably say something that'll get me banned again

 cincydooley wrote:
I think we should lock the thread before I inevitably say something that'll get me banned again

Well, apparently the powerlifting professional has left the thread so I guess it's just back to answering the OP's questions about working out. Boooooring.

Do it cincy, the spirit of this thread needs to continue!

 trexmeyer wrote:

And I train strictly to deadlift the most amount of weight possible. Yet, that is where you attempt to "correct" my form. So, yes LMAO. Go back to your lat pulldowns and curls.

I don't do lat pulldowns, as I'm able to do various other exercises that are much more effective in the context of my goals.

Incidentally, even if you are going the competition route your form is still bad (my comment about lifting the most that you can related to SRM) and you absolutely shouldn't be touting your routine to novices.

 Asherian Command wrote:

So overall. Train how you wish to train.

Training is up to you. Not to others. Do what is comfortable for you.

Truer words were never spoken.

 trexmeyer wrote:

Dogma, are you one those guys that posts on Olympic Weightlifting videos and tells everyone that they're doing it wrong and the weight needs to be lowered slowly and carefully?

Nope, I don't care nearly enough to wade through comments on weightlifting videos. I speak as a former trainer and veteran of lifting.

 Asherian Command wrote:


I do APK (American Parkour) Training which is basically the insane version of weight lifting but less focus on lifting and more focus on flexibility, agility, and internal balance (All bodies parts getting the same amount of work)

When I saw the list of your exercises, I was going to ask if you did Parkour because honestly, I can't see the use in some of them otherwise, lol.


Another seemingly "off the wall" workout that I've gotten into in the past (but Im not currently doing) is yoga... Holy cow, if you do THAT gak right, you'll get all kinds of crazy muscle burn... If you're trying to get swoll like Arnold, or Ronnie Coleman, it may not be the best thing out there, but you'll definitely increase strength, but more importantly flexibility.

Oh, yoga is great. I can't do it due to several athletic injuries but yeah, its a great form of exercise.

Though I will say that avoiding the "broga" programs that have recently been popping up is a good idea, as it has many of the same problems CrossFit does.

To the OP, a story:

At 39 years old I hit the scale and I was 200 pounds, for the first time ever (I'm 5'11"). Kinda scared me. I've been a desk jockey (programmer) for the bulk of my life, and never lifted weights or worked out for any measurable period. So I vowed that by 40, I'd be in the best shape of my life. And, FWIW, I did it (I'm 45 now - and a little flabby at 180 lbs).

I started easy, changing small things in my diet, and doing some really basic exercises. I was consulting at the time, working from home, and found the Exercise on Demand channel. A friend of mine suggested P90X - he'd had good results - so I researched it, and looked at the prerequisites and scoffed. No way I could do this. So I did its little sister program - P90, made mainly for housewives. It worked wonders.

From there, I read various fitness books, magazines (mostly trash), and forums - but I found two that resonated. The first one was "The New Rules of Lifting" - it makes me raise and eyebrow now, but it was useful then for some basic theory about body building, food intake, etc. Has some good, basic workout routines as well, with both dumbbells and barbells. I started P90 with dumbbells - I wanted to workout from home and don't have room for a large weight set - and I was able to continue using dumbbells (I did get a foldable bench) with New Rules.

That got me about through a year, and got me pretty fit. I got down to about 172 lbs, low body fat (low for me - 10-12%). I was eating well, taking protein and multivitamins, and no other real supplements.

After 40, I went to a much deeper mass/strength program (including different types of protein at different points in the day, various supplements, etc), and the key book and learnings at that point was Starting Strength by Rippletoe and Kilgore. I _strongly_ recommend that book to any serious, but mostly novice lifter. Its all about the basic compound exercises - form, reps, program, the whole deal. Forty pages on squat form alone. And FWIW, I don't do the clean, just the basic four - Squad, Deadlift, Bench and Overhead Press. I mix in other things for variation, but I always come back to those.

Also, I'd note that it is pretty simple to hurt yourself with the squat and deadlift, especially if you are too ambitious, too proud, or in a hurry. Also take your time, always use good form, don't show off, and best to use a spotter, especially when increasing weights. I'm generally a pretty smart guy, but all it took was one session in the gym with my father-in-law to hurt myself and put myself back a year.



Note: I'm not a fitness expert. I'm not a lifting expert. I'm just a guy who got in shape later in life because 200 pounds and fat scared the crap out of me. I can summarize the most important stuff I learned in a few bullets.

My weight is 99% about what I eat - not what workouts I do, how many reps or how much weight.

Lower reps, heavier weight tends to produce mass. Higher reps, lower weights tends to enhance endurance.

Isolation exercises are for guys that have maxed out their normal progression. Stick with compound exercises until you because that guy.

I made the most gains in my first year or two. It seems that most people do as well - take advantage of that.

I only get results when I push my limits. I've seen guys lift the same weight month and month and complain that "it isn't working". Well, unless you're just trying to keep the status quo, you have to push more and more all the time.

Riffing on the above, early on I found I could lift more than I thought. Later on I found I couldn't lift as much as I wanted. Be careful later.

I switch up what I do every 6 months or so. Or when I get bored. Might only be mental, but new routines re-energize my workouts and I bust plateaus when I do.

I've found that bands are an excellent hotel exercise, even though I prefer weights. But most hotel weight rooms suck, so ... bands.

Don't scoff at bodyweight exercises, either. Pushups, pull-ups, squats are all good exercises. Try pushups with a 20 pound backpack on, its a different experience.

 SavageRobby wrote:



That got me about through a year, and got me pretty fit. I got down to about 172 lbs, low body fat (low for me - 10-12%). I was eating well, taking protein and multivitamins, and no other real supplements.

Don't beat yourself up my friend, 10-12% is REALLY FETHING GOOD!!! I mean, sure it's not some mythical 2%, but realistically, the ONLY people that get even remotely close to those kinds of numbers are body builders, pro-cyclists and athletes with a runner's sort of physique (think wide receivers in the NFL, some basketball players, smaller baseball players, etc.), which includes long distance runners and their ilk.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 SavageRobby wrote:



That got me about through a year, and got me pretty fit. I got down to about 172 lbs, low body fat (low for me - 10-12%). I was eating well, taking protein and multivitamins, and no other real supplements.

Don't beat yourself up my friend, 10-12% is REALLY FETHING GOOD!!! I mean, sure it's not some mythical 2%, but realistically, the ONLY people that get even remotely close to those kinds of numbers are body builders, pro-cyclists and athletes with a runner's sort of physique (think wide receivers in the NFL, some basketball players, smaller baseball players, etc.), which includes long distance runners and their ilk.

Sorry - wasn't trying to imply it wasn't good. I'm kind of target driven and obsessive, and 8% was my goal. I never hit it, and that's okay. After that I started to bulk a little bit, and I've never got back down to those levels again. And every year over 40 makes that harder.

2% body fat is below essential levels and even if someone actually achieved that it would only be maintained for an hour or so. People seem to grossly underestimate their body fat percentage.

This is a decent chart. Only way to be certain would be to take multiple tests.




10-12% is basically "jacked" by anyone's standards.

Going by those pics I'm like 20% body fat.

 Cheesecat wrote:
Going by those pics I'm like 20% body fat.

And I'd be more like 35% lol... Fact is, I've actually reliably measured my own fat content, and I'm only around 20-25

Take them with a bit of a grain of salt. Everyone stores fat differently. Generally, women moreso on legs (leaning out the legs is a frequent problem for female fitness competitors) and less on the stomach. Men tend to store less on the limbs and more around the middle.

Also, 20% bodyfat still falls within the healthy range I believe.

 Bullockist wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:



No.... There is a place for different methods of lifting. To build more explosive muscles, you'd use a slow "down" and fast "up", or explode through the lift. By working the muscles quicker going one way, you're building that explosive muscle fiber which is good for quick steps in football, rugby and the like, as well as punching power if you're a boxer or the like. The other way to train explosive muscles, is through the use of Lifting Chains.

Doing every rep as quickly as possible is also dangerous, because you aren't really controlling the weight in the negative or "down" motion, then you have to try and apply the brakes. It just doesn't really end well for a LOT of people. EVERYTHING I've been taught (first weights coach in HS went to college for 4 years on human movement kineseology, or whatever it's called, on top of his other NCSA and other training organization's certifications, as well as being selected as a BFS pilot school) has said that ideally, for "standard" weight training you want a two count on the way down, pause for a count, and two count on the way up. This ensures you are nice and controlled in all aspects as well as proper muscle activation.

I don't know much about lifting but I can only echo what my grandpa used to say (and he ran a gym and trained wrestlers in the 1930-60s ) *insert scottish accent* " Anyone who does weights fast is an idiot...." usually followed on by a monologue about how if you put prettyboys who do fast weights against guys who do it controlled the controlled guy will be stronger... then followed on by how the best fighters are wrestlers followed by streefighters and boxers.
Grandpa was a bit of a hard arse.

There's no scientific evidence to support the idea that lifting slower builds bigger muscle. Lifting too fast can be dangerous, so finding somewhere in the middle is the best bet.


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 trexmeyer wrote:
Take them with a bit of a grain of salt. Everyone stores fat differently. Generally, women moreso on legs (leaning out the legs is a frequent problem for female fitness competitors) and less on the stomach. Men tend to store less on the limbs and more around the middle.

Also, 20% bodyfat still falls within the healthy range I believe.

Really? I'm around 10%. Of course I don't have much muscle, so I don't look as jacked as the guy in the picture.

Going by this site (http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/fitness/weight-loss/what-is-a-normal-body-fat-percentage.html) which I have no idea if it's credible or not, these are the healthy ratios:

Men Body Fat Percentages:

Ages 20-39: 8% to 19%
Ages 40-59: 11% to 21%
Ages 60-79: 13% to 24%

Women Body Fat Percentages:

Ages 20-39: 21% to 32%
Ages 40-59: 23% to 33%
Ages 60-79: 24% to 35%

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:


I do APK (American Parkour) Training which is basically the insane version of weight lifting but less focus on lifting and more focus on flexibility, agility, and internal balance (All bodies parts getting the same amount of work)

When I saw the list of your exercises, I was going to ask if you did Parkour because honestly, I can't see the use in some of them otherwise, lol.


Another seemingly "off the wall" workout that I've gotten into in the past (but Im not currently doing) is yoga... Holy cow, if you do THAT gak right, you'll get all kinds of crazy muscle burn... If you're trying to get swoll like Arnold, or Ronnie Coleman, it may not be the best thing out there, but you'll definitely increase strength, but more importantly flexibility.

I'd agree with that!

Yoga is extremely good for the body and hard to do. According to the exercise you are doing. Certain ones are easy, while others not so much.

I'm going to go get my popcorn now.




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 Cheesecat wrote:
Going by this site (http://www.fitday.com/fitness-articles/fitness/weight-loss/what-is-a-normal-body-fat-percentage.html) which I have no idea if it's credible or not, these are the healthy ratios:

Men Body Fat Percentages:

Ages 20-39: 8% to 19%
Ages 40-59: 11% to 21%
Ages 60-79: 13% to 24%

Women Body Fat Percentages:

Ages 20-39: 21% to 32%
Ages 40-59: 23% to 33%
Ages 60-79: 24% to 35%

I would say it is fairly accurate, but the numbers seem a tad high for women. I'm a buffoon that doesn't know how to lift properly, so don't listen to me.

 trexmeyer wrote:
Take them with a bit of a grain of salt. Everyone stores fat differently. Generally, women moreso on legs (leaning out the legs is a frequent problem for female fitness competitors) and less on the stomach. Men tend to store less on the limbs and more around the middle.

Actually, that's wrong. The primary difference between men and women is that women store much more fat in their chest, both sexes store fat in the "spare tire" area equally. This includes the gluteal area, which is what people refer to when they say something is "going straight to their thighs".

Women carry more fat than men. They are better at storing fat than men. Moreover, when women store fat, they do so in different places than men. They’ll preferentially store fat in in the hips, butt, and legs, whereas when men gain weight, it usually goes to the upper body (hence why you see massive beer bellies atop stick legs). Furthermore, when both men and women store upper body fat, men are more likely to develop visceral fat – the abdominal fat associated with metabolic syndrome – while women are more likely to develop subcutaneous fat.

Read more: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/gender-differences-in-fat-metabolism/#ixzz38nraR5i9

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/gender-differences-in-fat-metabolism/#axzz38nrJZHZg

I'll even bite on that bait. If your statement was correct why do women have visible abs at a higher body fat percentage than men?

More sources:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/why-does-fat-deposit-on-t/
http://jillfit.com/2013/02/25/lean-legs/

BUT, something happens for many women once they start getting leaner and their stomachs flatter–THE HIPS, BUTT AND THIGHS HOLD ONTO STUBBORN FAT even as the rest of the body gets leaner. In fact, this is THE #1 trouble area for my figure competitor and bikini clients. Everything else seems to tighten up right away but when all is said and done, the saddle bags, inner thighs and cellulite butt remain. Ever happen to you?

I'm consistently amazed at your lack of knowledge on really basic things. I'm not going to even argue this point with you. Again, you are woefully incorrect and should probably do some research before you start spouting off at the mouth under the assumption that you are all-knowing and all-seeing.