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 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Ok, now you go read the Ciapias Cain book (Traitors Gambit?) that shows 4 Chaos Space Marines deepstriking, then charging into a horde of cultists. Of course the Space Marines take there due, but they they also die off one by one, by cultists. Or how Cain (not a living Saint, i don't see no angel wings!) managed to hold his own vs a Khorn Beserker. And you cannot say Khorn Beserkers are worse combatants then other Marines, because they channel there rage into combat. To say otherwise would be to say that Angron was a bad fighter because he was always angry and rage fueled.

Also read Path of the Incubus were Wyches and Incubi cut there way through Plague Marines, or my previously quoted part were the Wyches and Lelith were *shredding* the Space Marines in Commaragh. So we have met an empasse, either disregard ALL Black Library fluff because it is to inconsistent, or we accept all of it and you take the good with the bad.

And saying that a Marine shouldn't lose to a Banshee once she has met Melee range is silly, Banshees are TAILOR MADE to kill Marines. In there fluff it specifically states that the power swords can cut through power armour easily, and the Banshee wail would be devastating to Marines, due to there enhanced senses it is very likely that by itself would cripple a Marine.

And Tau being extremely good at shooting? What fluff have you been reading? All Tau are short sighted and have slower reflexes then the average human, only superior tech and marker lights allows them to compete even with Imperial Guard.

Like I said, terrible SM tactics in that video. "Hey guys, banshees are coming. Lets just disperse and let them kill us one by one."


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 Mr Morden wrote:

I was referring to fluff. One marine can most likely put away 50 ork boys.

And Tau are extremely good at shooting. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, but Tau point a railgun at you and you disappear in a mist of blood.

As was I

Nope Tau are not good at shooting - they have good guns and tech to help them be as good as Guard but fire a lascannon at you and you are normally just a wisp of smoke............. Crisis Veterans are their equivalent of Marines.

Oh, well I've never read about Tau unfortunately. Guess I'll get on lexicanum tonight and educate myself.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I am not trying to be sexist, but I have only ever lost to a girl once in my entire life.

If you feel that saying there are girls that are better than you at sports is offensive and insulting to you, I am going to be offensive and insulting. Because there are girls that are better than you at sports. Unless of course if you are a professional sportsman at top level. In every sport.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
If SM's are so few in such a big and terrible galaxy, then common sense says they have to be pretty badass, especially with how they are often written about.

That is your opinion. My opinion is that common sense then implies they are not relevant at any big scale.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Go and read "brotherhood of the snake" by Dan Abnett and then come back and watch that ridiculous video. Let me know how completely absurd in difference the 2 of them are.

Go and watch that video and then come back and read that ridiculous “Brotherhood of the snake”. You are assuming “Brotherhood of the snake” is the valid source, and therefore the book is invalidating the video. I am not.


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 Lord Tarkin wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.

What? At a basic level superior? Yeah, you go with your little Eldar fetish bud.

The crow calling the raven black. Or the other way around, I never remember.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I am not trying to be sexist, but I have only ever lost to a girl once in my entire life.

If you feel that saying there are girls that are better than you at sports is offensive and insulting to you, I am going to be offensive and insulting. Because there are girls that are better than you at sports. Unless of course if you are a professional sportsman at top level. In every sport.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
If SM's are so few in such a big and terrible galaxy, then common sense says they have to be pretty badass, especially with how they are often written about.

That is your opinion. My opinion is that common sense then implies they are not relevant at any big scale.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Go and read "brotherhood of the snake" by Dan Abnett and then come back and watch that ridiculous video. Let me know how completely absurd in difference the 2 of them are.

Go and watch that video and then come back and read that ridiculous “Brotherhood of the snake”. You are assuming “Brotherhood of the snake” is the valid source, and therefore the book is invalidating the video. I am not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.

What? At a basic level superior? Yeah, you go with your little Eldar fetish bud.

The crow calling the raven black. Or the other way around, I never remember.

I do waiger, no girl can be me at football, haha. Take your fantasy elsewhere, I go off of reality and facts, facts says men are stronger than womem hence can perform sports at a higher level. There are women who can beat me, just not nearly as often as a man can.

You can grab at whatever you want but Dan Abnett is a qualified BL author and his opinions I will take over you're illogical biased myths.

Hmm, I am wondering, what's your name? Because you are OBVIOUSLY and Pro Footballer that plays for a major club and is one of the top in the world, and i would like to know if i own any Football cards with you on them. Because if you are not a pro-footballer, then seriously, how conceded can you get? There are many pro-female athletes, especially in football, more so then any other, and if you are seriously saying that ''No girl can be me at football'' then you are sorely mistaken.

You know who else is a qualified BL author, Sandy Mitchel, yet you refuse to acknowledge her books as anything more then 'comedy', when in actual fact it is just as cannon as anything else that comes out of black Library. Another author, Andy Chambers wrote Path of the Incubus, Phil Kelly wrote the Dark Eldar codex, all of it true and all of it is cannon, yet you refuse to even respond to me about the points i have made regarding the invasion of Commaragh and the Dark Eldar/Eldar codexes.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Hmm, I am wondering, what's your name? Because you are OBVIOUSLY and Pro Footballer that plays for a major club and is one of the top in the world, and i would like to know if i own any Football cards with you on them. Because if you are not a pro-footballer, then seriously, how conceded can you get? There are many pro-female athletes, especially in football, more so then any other, and if you are seriously saying that ''No girl can be me at football'' then you are sorely mistaken.

You know who else is a qualified BL author, Sandy Mitchel, yet you refuse to acknowledge her books as anything more then 'comedy', when in actual fact it is just as cannon as anything else that comes out of black Library. Another author, Andy Chambers wrote Path of the Incubus, Phil Kelly wrote the Dark Eldar codex, all of it true and all of it is cannon, yet you refuse to even respond to me about the points i have made regarding the invasion of Commaragh and the Dark Eldar/Eldar codexes.

Maybe someday I can become an NFL athlete. It's my dream, leave it alone.

Edit: And? What's your point? "Brotherhood of the Snake" read it and you might learn something. Priad absolutely man handled those DE. So I'll believe in what I want to believe, you won't change my mind

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.

What? At a basic level superior? Yeah, you go with your little Eldar fetish bud.

I forgot I was talking to you..... Nevermind I'll leave you to your magical world of fanfiction and idiocy.

pm713 wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

pm713 wrote:
Yes because dying to the elite warriors of a species that at a basic level is completely superior who then train endlessly and dedicate their life to fighting is pathetic.

What? At a basic level superior? Yeah, you go with your little Eldar fetish bud.

I forgot I was talking to you..... Nevermind I'll leave you to your magical world of fanfiction and idiocy.

Haha awesome

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
I do waiger, no girl can be me at football, haha.

Waiger?
Do you mean American football, or soccer?

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Take your fantasy elsewhere, I go off of reality and facts, facts says men are stronger than womem hence can perform sports at a higher level. There are women who can beat me, just not nearly as often as a man can.

So, my fantasy is that there are woman who can beat you, and you do admit that there are women who can beat you, yet I still need to take my fantasy elsewhere? Not to forgot it was supposed to be insulting. Maybe it is still insulting, but now you seem to acknowledge it is true.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
You can grab at whatever you want but Dan Abnett is a qualified BL author and his opinions I will take over you're illogical biased myths.

So, you are going to take what some qualified BL author are writing, disregard what other qualified BL authors write, and then tell me I have “illogical biased myths”?

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
You know who else is a qualified BL author, Sandy Mitchel, yet you refuse to acknowledge her books as anything more then 'comedy', when in actual fact it is just as cannon as anything else that comes out of black Library.

Sandy Mitchel is a guy, actually. I agree with what you said.

text removed.


Reds8n

Lord Tarkin wrote:
I do waiger, no girl can be me at football, haha.

Oh, it's #@$!ing on now. Fite me.

 Melissia wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Marines (And Eldar too, for that matter) are portrayed as incompetent, and inconsistent. Like in Black Library's lore.

FTFY.

They're written by human writers with little or no experience on the topics and little interest in doing research, so they come across as incompetent as a matter of course.

You can't blame the poor Eldar and Astartes for the writers having no idea of what they are actually doing.




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 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Regardless, I take those numbers and put them into logical sense. If SM's are so few in such a big and terrible galaxy, then common sense says they have to be pretty badass, especially with how they are often written about.

This, however, is something I agree with.

or maybe, from a logical point of view, that are just insanely easy to write about? ''Super Human Warrior who is the best at everything, has the best weapons and armour and allies, has no interest in women or romance and slaughter there way through every threat with little danger to themselves'' is an extremely easy story to write along. Certain Black Library books are more guilty of this then others, for example the Night Lords trilogy is a good example of how Marines should be, while others have them fighting off hordes of Chaos Space Marines with a Bolter while *their* bolter shells bounce off of his armour.

If the universe is that big, then 1 million Marines cannot matter on the large scale, they just get a lot of coverage due to being *safe* to write about. Writing about Imperial Guard is in danger of being to gritty due to easy deaths, Eldar are to alien, Necrons to cold, Orks to Orky and Tau to ideologically different. Writing about 10 ft super soldiers that never die and have no women problems is quite simply, the easier option. Use your common sense in context of the real world, and it might help you understand the situation when it's transferred into a fantasy one.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
or maybe, from a logical point of view, that are just insanely easy to write about? ''Super Human Warrior who is the best at everything, has the best weapons and armour and allies, has no interest in women or romance and slaughter there way through every threat with little danger to themselves'' is an extremely easy story to write along. Certain Black Library books are more guilty of this then others, for example the Night Lords trilogy is a good example of how Marines should be, while others have them fighting off hordes of Chaos Space Marines with a Bolter while *their* bolter shells bounce off of his armour.

If the universe is that big, then 1 million Marines cannot matter on the large scale, they just get a lot of coverage due to being *safe* to write about. Writing about Imperial Guard is in danger of being to gritty due to easy deaths, Eldar are to alien, Necrons to cold, Orks to Orky and Tau to ideologically different. Writing about 10 ft super soldiers that never die and have no women problems is quite simply, the easier option. Use your common sense in context of the real world, and it might help you understand the situation when it's transferred into a fantasy one.

Well, I agree. I think it's ridiculous loyalists marines blow chaos marines to spiky bits while the loyalists have bolts bouncing off their armour like they are gods. Casualty counts should be enormous on both sides when they go to war.

Eldar however, should not equal a Chaos marine in any martial standards. You are obviously a marine hater and thats fine but I am not claiming SM's to be unbeatable. I don't know why you insist in attacking me when I say that particular dawn of war video should have been much better. Those Eldar should have been in larger numbers and THEN I would've been fine with it. SM's are not gods but they are not serfs either.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

And Tau being extremely good at shooting? What fluff have you been reading? All Tau are short sighted and have slower reflexes then the average human, only superior tech and marker lights allows them to compete even with Imperial Guard.

Small quip with this. It is stated that tau have difficulty quickly focusing on things for changes in distances, not slower reflexes, shortsightedness only really affects close combat (and, what do you know, there bad at cc).

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Well, I agree. I think it's ridiculous loyalists marines blow chaos marines to spiky bits while the loyalists have bolts bouncing off their armour like they are gods. Casualty counts should be enormous on both sides when they go to war.

Interestingly, while I agree that the battle should be very equal, I am not of the belief that it would be a massacre. The 'advanced' infantry of 40K (Tyranid Warriors, Space Marines, Aspect Warriors, Immortals...) always seemed to me that toughness was their greatest advantage. All of them are lethal offensively, all four capable of slaughtering things like gaunts, guardsmen or boyz in short order, but their resilience (Tough body+chitinous armour/tough body + tough armour/extreme dodging + advanced armour/tough body + selfrepair) always gave me the impression that they were exponentially more tough than 'basic' infantry than they were strong offensively.

I imagine this is very unpopular with many. Especially IG fans often propagate the idea 'no matter how tough it is, a farmer with a meltagun will oneshot it' with the hopes of fighting against 40K's nature of mythology-in-space. But if I saw an Immortal take fire from an entire Guard company and just heal back all the damage, a Banshee slaughtering an Ork horde who is not even close to fast enough to land a blow, a Space Marine charging through Termagants like a freight train crushes unfortunate wildlife who walked onto the rails, I would not bat an eyebrow. The list can be made long. These guys play in a different division.

The offensive technology of 40K is immense, but so is the defensive.

In this particular example, a fight between a Bolter Marine and a Bolter Chaos Marine is one I believe would take time. Mass-reactive mini-rockets are deflected by solid armour plates as the two duelists speed around each other, trying to hit a weak spot. Both combatants switch between bursts of fire and close assaults as they focus on seeking out the weakness in each other. But it is not a fight that's likely to end in seconds.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Well, I agree. I think it's ridiculous loyalists marines blow chaos marines to spiky bits while the loyalists have bolts bouncing off their armour like they are gods. Casualty counts should be enormous on both sides when they go to war.

Interestingly, while I agree that the battle should be very equal, I am not of the belief that it would be a massacre. The 'advanced' infantry of 40K (Tyranid Warriors, Space Marines, Aspect Warriors, Immortals...) always seemed to me that toughness was their greatest advantage. All of them are lethal offensively, all four capable of slaughtering things like gaunts, guardsmen or boyz in short order, but their resilience (Tough body+chitinous armour/tough body + tough armour/extreme dodging + advanced armour/tough body + selfrepair) always gave me the impression that they were exponentially more tough than 'basic' infantry than they were strong offensively.

I imagine this is very unpopular with many. Especially IG fans often propagate the idea 'no matter how tough it is, a farmer with a meltagun will oneshot it' with the hopes of fighting against 40K's nature of mythology-in-space. But if I saw an Immortal take fire from an entire Guard company and just heal back all the damage, a Banshee slaughtering an Ork horde who is not even close to fast enough to land a blow, a Space Marine charging through Termagants like a freight train crushes unfortunate wildlife who walked onto the rails, I would not bat an eyebrow. The list can be made long. These guys play in a different division.

The offensive technology of 40K is immense, but so is the defensive.

In this particular example, a fight between a Bolter Marine and a Bolter Chaos Marine is one I believe would take time. Mass-reactive mini-rockets are deflected by solid armour plates as the two duelists speed around each other, trying to hit a weak spot. Both combatants switch between bursts of fire and close assaults as they focus on seeking out the weakness in each other. But it is not a fight that's likely to end in seconds.

I agree with everything you just said. Chaos marines and space marines would not be a short conclusion.

Ha, I lol'd at that farmer with a meltagun expression

I mean, there are certain scenarios that can tilt the favor for one or the other. Like in the Iron Snakes, one squad of marines were cut down in 4 seconds I believe. It was a while since I read it but a mass chaos marine ambush saw the entire squad destroyed in matter of 4 seconds. I actually enjoyed the hopelessness of the situation, that made 40k look like the grimdark setting its suppose to look like. SM's aren't indestructible but they do require a ton of effort to efficiently win against.

]
Okay, I reported that. Seriously.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Especially IG fans often propagate the idea 'no matter how tough it is, a farmer with a meltagun will oneshot it'

The description of how insanely incredible it is that Huron survived a melta shot tend to confirm that. I mean, melta guns are no joke. They do not have a long range, they do not have a high rate of fire, they do not have a huge blast radius, but where they do hit, they just utterly destroy things. Seems like you would want to take away their only quality.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Well, I agree. I think it's ridiculous loyalists marines blow chaos marines to spiky bits while the loyalists have bolts bouncing off their armour like they are gods. Casualty counts should be enormous on both sides when they go to war.

Eldar however, should not equal a Chaos marine in any martial standards.

In other world, “my guys should be the best, and I am going to disregard any and all fluff saying otherwise”. Which would be fine, if you were not hellbent on proving other that your ridiculously biased version is the only true one.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

The description of how insanely incredible it is that Huron survived a melta shot tend to confirm that. I mean, melta guns are no joke. They do not have a long range, they do not have a high rate of fire, they do not have a huge blast radius, but where they do hit, they just utterly destroy things. Seems like you would want to take away their only quality.

Eh. It's inconsistent as always. I agree that they hit very hard, but their universal oneshottability is overplayed. I think. Add 'In my opinion' at the end of each of my sentences, and 'YMMV' at the end of each of my posts.

As for Huron, the melta shot hit one of his items which exploded. The meltashot was not what damaged him so badly. Something even GW seems to forget in his entry.

In other world, “my guys should be the best, and I am going to disregard any and all fluff saying otherwise”. Which would be fine, if you were not hellbent on proving other that your ridiculously biased version is the only true one.

Now this is a fight I'll stay out of.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Okay, I reported that. Seriously.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Especially IG fans often propagate the idea 'no matter how tough it is, a farmer with a meltagun will oneshot it'

The description of how insanely incredible it is that Huron survived a melta shot tend to confirm that. I mean, melta guns are no joke. They do not have a long range, they do not have a high rate of fire, they do not have a huge blast radius, but where they do hit, they just utterly destroy things. Seems like you would want to take away their only quality.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Well, I agree. I think it's ridiculous loyalists marines blow chaos marines to spiky bits while the loyalists have bolts bouncing off their armour like they are gods. Casualty counts should be enormous on both sides when they go to war.

Eldar however, should not equal a Chaos marine in any martial standards.

In other world, “my guys should be the best, and I am going to disregard any and all fluff saying otherwise”. Which would be fine, if you were not hellbent on proving other that your ridiculously biased version is the only true one.

Wow, you are just really mad right now. Take a chill pill, I never said marines were the frickin best and I never said I would disregard fluff. Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

Wow, you are just really mad right now. Take a chill pill, I never said marines were the frickin best and I never said I would disregard fluff. Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.

I think it should vary depending on the Eldar, but don't mind me

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

Wow, you are just really mad right now. Take a chill pill, I never said marines were the frickin best and I never said I would disregard fluff. Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.

I think it should vary depending on the Eldar, but don't mind me

Yeah, it should definitely vary. Look at DE. Their normal warriors, so to speak, don't equal a marine in combat but an Archon could slice through a few SM squads.

That farseer in the video was pathetic. All she did was stand still and shoot lightning and killed only 1 marine. I would've enjoyed seeing a thorough battle but it made no sense.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Eh. It's inconsistent as always. I agree that they hit very hard, but their universal oneshottability is overplayed.

We all have things that we believed are overplayed.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I think. Add 'In my opinion' at the end of each of my sentences, and 'YMMV' at the end of each of my posts.

Great! Do that for mine too, in case I forget to add it.

 Ashiraya wrote:
As for Huron, the melta shot hit one of his items which exploded.

I did not knew that. Which item?

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Wow, you are just really mad right now.

You quoted one of my post and answered only by “feth you”. This is in direct contradiction with DakkaDakka's rule, and responding would certainly have led to me being in direct contradiction with those rules too. Therefore, I reported it.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.

No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that eldar that do not train in martial combat should be inferior to space marines in martial combat, but those that do train in martial combat should be superior. Especially aspect warrior, wyches and incubus. Of course, an exceptional space marine could be better than a rank-and-file eldar warrior, but an exceptional dark eldar will basically always be better than even the best space marines.
That is my opinion. You can call it delusional if you want to.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I did not knew that. Which item?

His old lightning claw, the Ghost Razors. Some archeotech or something of the like. When it was struck by the melta shot, it detonated in a furious explosion that incenerated a large part of poor Huron.

It's in the Badab books.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Eh. It's inconsistent as always. I agree that they hit very hard, but their universal oneshottability is overplayed.

We all have things that we believed are overplayed.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I think. Add 'In my opinion' at the end of each of my sentences, and 'YMMV' at the end of each of my posts.

Great! Do that for mine too, in case I forget to add it.

 Ashiraya wrote:
As for Huron, the melta shot hit one of his items which exploded.

I did not knew that. Which item?

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Wow, you are just really mad right now.

You quoted one of my post and answered only by “feth you”. This is in direct contradiction with DakkaDakka's rule, and responding would certainly have led to me being in direct contradiction with those rules too. Therefore, I reported it.

 Lord Tarkin wrote:
Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.

No, that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that eldar that do not train in martial combat should be inferior to space marines in martial combat, but those that do train in martial combat should be superior. Especially aspect warrior, wyches and incubus. Of course, an exceptional space marine could be better than a rank-and-file eldar warrior, but an exceptional dark eldar will basically always be better than even the best space marines.
That is my opinion. You can call it delusional if you want to.

Aspect warriors and wyches are badasses, obviously. So are banshees, banshees take CC very seriously.

With that being said, I am merely disappointed in the way the marines in that video were portrayed, along with that weak ass Eldar Farseer. Then that dreadnought just completely disappearing after slaughtering two eldar. I though that entire video was hilarious and laughable.

It's a cool video and it works for its purpose. But it falls apart when you think about it for more than ten seconds.

 Ashiraya wrote:
It's a cool video and it works for its purpose. But it falls apart when you think about it for more than ten seconds.

I have a feeling they didn't include the actual identity of the marines and eldar because the video would've been too long, so I'll ease up on the gas but still not fluff at all.

I didn't post the video to show who was better then who, i posted the video because within the video was a *specific example* which i believed worked to fluff, as i mentioned in the post. That example was between 1:06 and 1:08, forget about the rest, and just look at that. It had a Banshee weaving in and out of an Assault Marine, with the Assault Marine failing to hit her. Now just assume, 1v1, and also assuming the Banshee made it into combat without being turned into a red mist, that is how i imagine a fight between a Banshee and a Marine would go. She is faster (at least while the Marine is within his armour), more agile and her weapon will slide through power armour like butter. *IF* it came to it, in that specific situation, i believe the Banshee would, and by all rights should considering there niche as premier MEQ killers, win the fight a lot more often then not.

''Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.''

Your doing it again, referring to an entire race instead of the specific military branches of said race. No one is saying an Eldar pot maker and Guardian should equal a SM, we are saying Aspect Warriors and Wyches and Incubi should. For example Incubi and Banshees are some of the most efficient Space Marine killers known (evidence: Path of the Incubi and the Night lords Trilogy) in close combat, rivaled by Dark Reapers being known to crumple Power Armour at range as well. Would you agree, that if an Aspect Warrior or Military Dark Eldar was vs the Average Space Marine in the field that the Eldar specialized in (Space Marines have always been jack of all trades, Eldar have always specialized) that the Eldar should have the advantage?

**Edit** Another example of Melta vs Marine is, again, in the Ciaphias Cain books. In one of his adventures while Cain is trading blows with a Beserker, Cain creates enough room for Jurgan to come in and evaporate a Space Marines head with a Melta blast. He seems well and truly dead from that...

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I didn't post the video to show who was better then who, i posted the video because within the video was a *specific example* which i believed worked to fluff, as i mentioned in the post. That example was between 1:06 and 1:08, forget about the rest, and just look at that. It had a Banshee weaving in and out of an Assault Marine, with the Assault Marine failing to hit her. Now just assume, 1v1, and also assuming the Banshee made it into combat without being turned into a red mist, that is how i imagine a fight between a Banshee and a Marine would go. She is faster (at least while the Marine is within his armour), more agile and her weapon will slide through power armour like butter. *IF* it came to it, in that specific situation, i believe the Banshee would, and by all rights should considering there niche as premier MEQ killers, win the fight a lot more often then not.

''Are you seriously saying Eldar should equal a SM in martial combat? That sounds like what you're saying and if so, it is very delusional.''

Your doing it again, referring to an entire race instead of the specific military branches of said race. No one is saying an Eldar pot maker and Guardian should equal a SM, we are saying Aspect Warriors and Wyches and Incubi should. For example Incubi and Banshees are some of the most efficient Space Marine killers known (evidence: Path of the Incubi and the Night lords Trilogy) in close combat, rivaled by Dark Reapers being known to crumple Power Armour at range as well. Would you agree, that if an Aspect Warrior or Military Dark Eldar was vs the Average Space Marine in the field that the Eldar specialized in (Space Marines have always been jack of all trades, Eldar have always specialized) that the Eldar should have the advantage?

**Edit** Another example of Melta vs Marine is, again, in the Ciaphias Cain books. In one of his adventures while Cain is trading blows with a Beserker, Cain creates enough room for Jurgan to come in and evaporate a Space Marines head with a Melta blast. He seems well and truly dead from that...

As I have said, aspect warriors wyches and incubi are very formidable CC foes. I believe tbat is their specialty but I DO believe a SM is slightly more intelligent. It plays very little in CC but I will give the marine the disadvantage. However, in the fluff, marines would not have had such terrible tactics.

Now forgive me, I realize those were banshees in the video. I am not familiar with Eldar but now I know what they mainly look like (I only battled Eldar once on TT). With that being said, I saw the assualt marines kill a few banshees so I suppose it wasnt terrible fluff but however, the tactis on both sides still don't add up. As I mentioned earlier, the marines just dispersed. Why would you disperse when you know you'll be fighting banshees? That poor heavy bolter marine wouldnt have gotten raped by that warp spider if he had a brother by his side to help him.

Then the Eldar? They had like, one warp spider? Where the hell were his comrades at? A pathetic farseer that sat idly by as her fellows died to superhumans? I...don't understand any of that gak. But hey, I know there are very few 40k videos to refer to so we have no choice but to enjoy this nonsense.

Edit: about that assualt marine. He would not have died of a sword through the gut. I felt it was a cool scene but the wound should have been much more fatal. Would've been cool to see him have his head cut off, his throat sliced, or a giant slash across the middle of his chest and destroying his innards. A sword through the gut wouldn't have even fazed him, and he would've just hacked that banshee in two.

Of course the tactics were terrible, if both races were suing sound tactics the Eldar would of won hands down, and even you cannot disagree with that! The reason being, the Eldar knew the Space Marines were coming and had a Farseer, so she should of been able to see exactly when and where. In response she should of had a *much* larger force in better positions, as i saw no anti-tank to be ready for the dreadnought. Being able to see the futures is a massive advantage war wise, and it's a known fact about the Eldar they only commit to a battle when they have no other choice or are assured of victory.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Of course the tactics were terrible, if both races were suing sound tactics the Eldar would of won hands down, and even you cannot disagree with that! The reason being, the Eldar knew the Space Marines were coming and had a Farseer, so she should of been able to see exactly when and where. In response she should of had a *much* larger force in better positions, as i saw no anti-tank to be ready for the dreadnought. Being able to see the futures is a massive advantage war wise, and it's a known fact about the Eldar they only commit to a battle when they have no other choice or are assured of victory.

Um, you cannot say "hands down" Im sure if the SM's had more men and a psyker of their own it could've been an awesome battle. Stop being biased.

I am convinced that an assault-oriented Space Marine (Say one of those guys who are left in the assault squads because they lack the flexibility to be tacticals) with a chainsword and bolt pistol is about equal to a Howling Banshee or Striking Scorpion in combat.