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**hyozanman**

Oh yea look up badab war chapter tactics. Some of those can be interesting, though to be honest I think none of them are that good.

**barnowl**

hyozanman wrote:
Oh yea look up badab war chapter tactics. Some of those can be interesting, though to be honest I think none of them are that good.

IF you want assaulty Codex Marines Charradones are okay. .

**th3maninblak**

barnowl wrote:
hyozanman wrote:
Oh yea look up badab war chapter tactics. Some of those can be interesting, though to be honest I think none of them are that good.

IF you want assaulty Codex Marines Charradones are okay. .

And Raptors chapter tactics are what raven guard SHOULD have been.

**Solosam47**

I was saddened by the astral claws chapter tactics.....could have been soooooo much better.....

**Tiger9gamer**

th3maninblak wrote:
barnowl wrote:
hyozanman wrote:
Oh yea look up badab war chapter tactics. Some of those can be interesting, though to be honest I think none of them are that good.

IF you want assaulty Codex Marines Charradones are okay. .

And Raptors chapter tactics are what raven guard SHOULD have been.

exactly my thinking of it. with Issoman's latest rules and his warlord trait Master of Ambush, he makes it so 3 units can infiltrate, I wish shrike or RG in general had that rule.

that or just the HH Legion rules for the RG

**dmthomas7**

minotaurs paired with their chapter master (Asterion?) is quite brutal against other sm. Also not falling back in the shooting phase is nice

**Solosam47**

Kinda sad how most of the FW chapter tactics just tell you to use ultramarines CT.....real imaginative FW....

**Paradigm**

I think a lot of people seem to sell the Raven Guard short. The Scout move basically puts you a turn ahead on anything that requires mobility, whether that be Malestrom Objectives, rapid redeployment to counter a refused flank, getting into CQB or closing the gap to a gunline.

The JP part is less awesome (but does make AM/VV a lot more dangerous), but army-wide scout is a great strategic advantage. It's something active rather than passive (such as the IH FNP or the Sally's MC weapons), but exceptionally useful in a lot of cases.

**th3maninblak**

It also depends on special characters and their interaction with chapter tactics. Ultramarines CTs are pretty good, though not insane... unless you take Marny C. He pretty much turns it up to 11.

Im a crimson fists player, myself. I just feel that the imperial fists chapter tactics are super good, both sentinels of terra and otherwise.

**Strig**

th3maninblak wrote:
HawaiiMatt wrote:
hyozanman wrote:

4. Blood angels: I feel like the space vampires with their Baal vehicles and free pods really can perform well in this objective centric meta. Vehicles are harder to kill, troops in pods are valuable, and an army that no one faces can claim some wins. Also they have some cool HQs.

9. Ravenguard: scouting rhinos! That's it... Oh and I guess kind of mobile scoring assault units.

Disagree? I understand, just don't be a dick about it.

Ravenguard actually scout almost everything. They don't scout terminators, centurions, bikes and assault troops. They do scout everything else, including Fortifications and Lords of War.
If you want to run a close combat marine army, having almost your entire army start 12" closer is a big deal.
Think about starting a game with a pair of punisher cannons mid-field.

Pods aren't free, for BA. You start off by paying in inflated cost, and then get refunded part of the inflated cost.
5 assault marines with pod is 100. 5 tactical marines with pod is 105. Those extra 5 points buys you bolters instead of bolt pistols.
Fast Tanks is neat, but if you're just starting 12" closer, you don't really need it.
If you're running a shooty army, then you have better choices for Chapter Tactics than what BA brings you.

Nothing in 7th edition has covered the gap of 5+ feel no pain (instead of 4+) and no +1 init with furious charge.
And if you say, but vehicles are better, I'll point you at grey knight henchmen squads or Iron Hands.

-Edit: scratch most of that. Just noticed that Unlike Iron Hands, Raven Guard vehicles would have to have Chapter Tactics to be able to scout on their own. No wonder I never saw anybody doing that.

-Matt

Feel no pain is better than it was in 5th, by a long shot. The changes to jump packs made up for the loss of init, because hammer of wrath is a thing. Ill take getting a 5+ save vs plasma, monstrous creatures and power weapons/rends over +1 init on the charge any day.

And fast is better than scout. Mobility is critical this edition, particularly with maelstrom missions. Scouting does not give you mobility beyond the first turn. Also Baal preds have both.

Red thirst rarely does anything. Descent of angels is amazing.

Finally, being able to take 2 special weapons and matching pistols in a drop pod as opposed to a special and combi makes BA assault marines an equal or better drop pod troop.

I played a full DoA list in 5th and I loved it! However, Feel no Pain then was a 4+ - not sure how you say FnP is better now. As for Hammer of Wrath, I feel its clunky to move 6 inches and wait to use your jump pack to get the HoW attacks.

I am a little confused by the statement "Ill take getting a 5+ save vs plasma, monstrous creatures and power weapons/rends over +1 init on the charge any day." Can you clarify?

Also, I really loved the Init 5 - it gave my Assault units something that allowed them to decrease the number of attacks back most of the time. When the BA book comes out I really hope they allow Blood Angels consisting of all Jump Packs, to start the game off board and come in turn 2. I would need to throw a fair amount of points in an 1850 list to keep units on the board turn 1 that couldnt be wiped out before my Decent of Angels.

- Strig

**Envihon**

I see some underestimation of Imperial Fist Chapter tactics here. They aren't as good as Iron Hands or White Scares but they are effective. My Fists haven't let me down yet and their Chapter Tactics are a big reason for that. They make taking TLLC/ML Devastator Centurions more than worth it. And Bolter Drill is pretty effective as well while I haven't seen UM or Salamanders Chapter Tactics turn the tide of a battle like my Fists have for me.

**Leth**

I have been considering a small allied detachment of ravenguard in rhinos for those scout moves without needing to invest in khan or have him be the warlord.

**th3maninblak**

Strig wrote:
th3maninblak wrote:
HawaiiMatt wrote:
hyozanman wrote:

4. Blood angels: I feel like the space vampires with their Baal vehicles and free pods really can perform well in this objective centric meta. Vehicles are harder to kill, troops in pods are valuable, and an army that no one faces can claim some wins. Also they have some cool HQs.

9. Ravenguard: scouting rhinos! That's it... Oh and I guess kind of mobile scoring assault units.

Disagree? I understand, just don't be a dick about it.

Ravenguard actually scout almost everything. They don't scout terminators, centurions, bikes and assault troops. They do scout everything else, including Fortifications and Lords of War.
If you want to run a close combat marine army, having almost your entire army start 12" closer is a big deal.
Think about starting a game with a pair of punisher cannons mid-field.

Pods aren't free, for BA. You start off by paying in inflated cost, and then get refunded part of the inflated cost.
5 assault marines with pod is 100. 5 tactical marines with pod is 105. Those extra 5 points buys you bolters instead of bolt pistols.
Fast Tanks is neat, but if you're just starting 12" closer, you don't really need it.
If you're running a shooty army, then you have better choices for Chapter Tactics than what BA brings you.

Nothing in 7th edition has covered the gap of 5+ feel no pain (instead of 4+) and no +1 init with furious charge.
And if you say, but vehicles are better, I'll point you at grey knight henchmen squads or Iron Hands.

-Edit: scratch most of that. Just noticed that Unlike Iron Hands, Raven Guard vehicles would have to have Chapter Tactics to be able to scout on their own. No wonder I never saw anybody doing that.

-Matt

Feel no pain is better than it was in 5th, by a long shot. The changes to jump packs made up for the loss of init, because hammer of wrath is a thing. Ill take getting a 5+ save vs plasma, monstrous creatures and power weapons/rends over +1 init on the charge any day.

And fast is better than scout. Mobility is critical this edition, particularly with maelstrom missions. Scouting does not give you mobility beyond the first turn. Also Baal preds have both.

Red thirst rarely does anything. Descent of angels is amazing.

Finally, being able to take 2 special weapons and matching pistols in a drop pod as opposed to a special and combi makes BA assault marines an equal or better drop pod troop.

I played a full DoA list in 5th and I loved it! However, Feel no Pain then was a 4+ - not sure how you say FnP is better now. As for Hammer of Wrath, I feel its clunky to move 6 inches and wait to use your jump pack to get the HoW attacks.

I am a little confused by the statement "Ill take getting a 5+ save vs plasma, monstrous creatures and power weapons/rends over +1 init on the charge any day." Can you clarify?

Also, I really loved the Init 5 - it gave my Assault units something that allowed them to decrease the number of attacks back most of the time. When the BA book comes out I really hope they allow Blood Angels consisting of all Jump Packs, to start the game off board and come in turn 2. I would need to throw a fair amount of points in an 1850 list to keep units on the board turn 1 that couldnt be wiped out before my Decent of Angels.

- Strig

With some proper positioning against other mid field shooting armies (marines, crons, etc) saving your pack for the assault phase isnt all that difficult. Like when I was recently facing a space wolf drop pod list. Out of the 4 assaults I launched turn 2, 3 of them benefited from hammer of wrath.

Feel no pain is better because you get it vs more stuff. Before, anything that had strength that doubled out your toughness, was ap1 or 2, rended, or straight up denied your armor saves also denied feel no pain. Sure, it was a 4+, but you only got it vs small arms fire. Now the ONLY thing that denies it are things that cause instant death, so a marine now gets a 5+ save vs plasma, rending, baleflamers, power swords, power axes, psychic scream, etc, when before he would get nothing.

So yeah, ill trade a straight nerf on furious charge for a straight buff on feel no pain

**casvalremdeikun**

I am a little biased since I have only played a Fist chapter, but Sentinels of Terra is pretty awesome. Making bolt weapons TL at short range seems pretty awesome.

**scommy**

CT choice should influence your list and gameplay style.

For example if you run Fists, you prolly wanna run lots of devs and plenty of tacticals. This will maximise your bolter drill and tank hunters. Playing wise you do not want to get stuck in close combat. I know people say tactical marines suck, but with combat squads in big numbers, the bolter drill can really put some hurt out.

In contrast Templars are pretty much the opposite to Fists. You want to get your close combat buffs into the game asap.

If your list is not tailored to your CT then you are selling yourself short.

At least IH and UM kinda fit any army list.

**BlaxicanX**

Have the FW chapter tactics been updated for 7th edition?

If so, where can I find them? The top results on google are only showing me the 6th edition rules.

**Paradigm**

Here you go:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/fwDownloads

Top of the middle column. Those are the 6th ed ones but I don't see why they would work any differently in 7th. The codex is still from 6th, after all.

**sing your life**

I'd say White Scars. SM bikers are already easily the best unit with a cheap price tag and access to up to 2 relentless gravguns, which Scars make even better with more survivability and strength 5 HOW. second would be IH with all the models in the army ignoring death 1/6 of the time and vehicles being really tough instead of just foot marines being murdered by low AP weapons.

**Pony_law**

Petty much every chapter tactics except Templars and raven guard are good. The important thing to do is pick a chapter tactic and build around it. Toby way you can maximize it's overall buff to your army.

**Mavnas**

If RG could scout bikes and/or jump infantry they would be good. It's somewhat stupid that they can't.

**Darkseid**

IH did benefit a lot from the new edition rules. Plus, they don't require as much build-around or tactics as others do, which makes them easy to use.

WS are of course also great, as they give further benefits to an already very good unit.

**locarno24**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
Clearly, the Exorcists have the best chapter tactics, as they can choose to use whichever one they want at the start of each game.

As a Red Scorpions player, I find them to be less than impressive. The Red Hunters have a pretty nifty set of chapter tactics.

No, they don't.

As suggested on page 77 of Codex: Space Marines, the Unknown Founding of the Exorcists and their secretive arts of war should be depicted by a Chapter Tactic of the player’s choosing from Codex: Space Marines.

Meaning you chose your chapter tactics when you write your list, just like every other marine list.

Envihon wrote:
I see some underestimation of Imperial Fist Chapter tactics here. They aren't as good as Iron Hands or White Scares but they are effective. My Fists haven't let me down yet and their Chapter Tactics are a big reason for that. They make taking TLLC/ML Devastator Centurions more than worth it. And Bolter Drill is pretty effective as well while I haven't seen UM or Salamanders Chapter Tactics turn the tide of a battle like my Fists have for me.

I find myself glancing at the Sentinals of Terra with Close Ranged Bolter Drill, too. Having played an assaulty army, I know how painful twin-linked small arms are for overwatch....
I keep wondering about a pure scout army using Sentinals of Terra - starting that many scouts at rapid fire range with this chapter tactic could be lethal.

Solosam47 wrote:
Kinda sad how most of the FW chapter tactics just tell you to use ultramarines CT.....real imaginative FW....

Well, the Novamarines and Howling Griffons are supposed to by hardcore Codex Astartes followers - what else would they use?

**Ond Angel**

Completely biased here, but IH are the best.
The amount of times IWND and FNP have prolonged my life is ridiculous.

Of course, IWND and I have a love-hate relationship.
I love it.
It doesn't like me.

Sentinels of Terra are probably my second favourite, followed by the actual Fists.