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 kerikhaos wrote:
Ok everyone over the last few months of being a part of this amazing forum i have read countless times about how people feel unhappy because of the purchase costs of the GW lineup.

My question quite simply is "how much should these items be in your opinion and why?"

use a current example of GW items for base and provide your reasonable cost price along with reasons why......

For simplicity's sake, take everything and mark it down 40%.

Definitely at least slash the prices by 50%. But more importantly I think it would be a lot better for people outside of the UK and US to have their prices properly adjusted and not inflated artificially in different regions such as Australia or Canada where we have to pay an disproportionate increase compared to the others. Having a consistent price point for different currencies is huge and alongside a more sane price point (with maybe rotating sales for different armies of the week) it would definitely boost interest and sales.

I'm curious what GW's profit margin is when we're paying $4 for one SM.

Seeing the stuff from wargames factory GW should be slightly above that for the same amount of miniatures.

The Imperial knight should be cheaper than the dream forge's leviathan as it is smaller and has no moving parts.

GW's profit margin is 75% so if you are paying $4 for a Space Marine they get $3 profit.

That might sound a hell of a lot but no retailer would be able to stay in business if it wasn't making $2 out of that so GW's profits are above the average retailer but not by a huge amount.

But yes they could drop that down to a margin of 50% but then your local independent wouldn't be able to sell at a discount so stores would probably stop stocking it.

Important to realise that the 70% figure is gross. Their net is in single digits IIRC, or the teens at least.

Sorry yes should have been clear, their margin is 75%, that isn't an indication of their net profit.

So if you buy a £10 kit from GW they make £7.50 profit from it but out of that you have to take all the other company expenses for manufacturing, logistics, overheads etc out of that.

That's why almost all retail companies expect a minimum 48-50% mark up or margin on their products.

A margin of 75% is considered very healthy but GW also has to maintain it's stores and staff etc.

Your local retailer will buy a £10 kit from GW for under £5 and sell it to you for £7.50. The store makes around £2.50 and GW makes around £2.50.

So GW loses a bit in sales by selling to independents but saves money in overheads so it's almost like a symbiotic relationship.

But yes GW don't make £7.50 net profit from every £10 kit they sell, so people on here saying they should reduce their prices by 50% don't realise it would put GW out of business.

Yes the hobby may be expensive, but GW aren't really ripping you off in any way.

Although there really isn't a need to produce Codexes in hard back, or to charge the same price for digital editions, so they could reduce prices on gaming materials.

There's actually two problems here:

1) The price per boxed set is very high
2) The scale of the game is large, making #1 seem even more expensive because you need more boxes

For #1, I'd say comparative to Warlord Games or Mantic (I'm deliberately not using Privateer Press as some of their figures I think are priced too high as well, but is offset by the amount needed; $85 for a unit of Iron Fang Pikemen sucks, but it's bearable when you most of the time only need that one unit). A unit should be around $20-30 with ALL the potential options included (e.g. if you buy a Space Marine Tactical Squad, it should have one of each special and heavy weapon included). A tank should be around $35 for a regular-sized one, and around $45 for something like a Land Raider. Around $65 for something like the Riptide/IK/*orkanaut. Character packs should be $15, maybe $20 max.

However, #2 is the larger issue. $40 for a box of Marines isn't that bad when you only need one; it's bad when you need 2, 3 or more, plus another $40 for the transport, plus a Devastator squad to get the heavy weapons you want, plus whatever else. It's worse with WHFB since you typically have to buy 2-3 boxes to make one unit. I think if the size of the game was closer to Bolt Action (which really is like 40k done right IMO), it wouldn't be so bad however they'd still need to price comparatively.

For example, a 1,000 point Bolt Action army (which is the normal size for Bolt Action games) is about $125 and contains an HQ, around four squads of troops, 2-3 supplementary units (e.g. artillery, mortars) and a tank. GW should have 40k balanced around the same and be priced around the same, let's say $150-175 for "luxury" items.

If you ask me the larger issue is that 40k hits the two points I mentioned above, and both of these together makes the price point nearly unbearable. if it was expensive figures that you needed a small amount of (see: Infinity, Warmahordes) then the price wouldn't be too bad. Expensive, but not crazy. If it was cheap figures that you need a lot of (see: Virtually all historical 28mms), it wouldn't be that bad either because you'd be getting like 40 guys with variety for $40 or thereabouts (e.g. Perry's plastic European Mercenaries are 40 figures for ~$40 and you can build them to get the bulk of three different units; so two boxes give you three full units for $80, very reasonable IMO). GW though charges a lot and requires a lot, so the cost goes up exponentially for everything because you aren't just spending $40 on a box, you need to buy several $40 boxes, in some cases to build a single unit with the options that you want.

That's the problem.

To put things into perspective, let me repost something I posted on the other thread about GW prices versus competitor prices:

GW Men-at-Arms: 31 Euros for 16 models (1.94 Euros each)

Perry Bows and Bills box: 25.1 Euros for 40 models (0.63 Euros each)

Fireforge Games Foot Sergeants: 35 Euros for 48 models (0.73 Euros each)

Mantic's Undead Skeleton Horde: 35 Euros for 40 models (0.87 Euros each)

Wargames Factory Viking Bondi: 16.35 Euros for 38 models (0.43 Euros each)

Gripping Beast Viking Hirdmen: 27.95 Euros for 44 models (0.63 Euros each)

Some plastic GW models will have a higher price per model (like Space Marines, for example). GW models literally costs 4 times more compared to than their competitors (WGF. 3 times more with Perry). And don't tell me it's about quality: the Perry Brothers are also the ones who worked under GW for many years and their historical sets have lots of extras in them for customization. And let's compare them to LotR plastic models that offers no customization and also sculpted by the Perry bros.:

GW Warriors of Rohan: 19.5 Euros for 24 models (1.63 Euros each)

It's double/triple the price of kits that offer customization.


First, they have to price themselves consistently: just looking atheir catalog, some same sized models with the same medium are double the price of another model, and that's a bit ridiculous.

Second, they could at least price themselves realistically.

EDIT: OOOPS GOT MY MATH WRONG. Fixed!

Wow that puts it into perspective. Charge 4x as much for less than half the amount of figures.

Also I agree on their pricing, it seems to be random at best and outright nonsensical at worst.

Well technically the boxes are priced quite nearly each other (GW's 31 Euros versus Perry's 25, for example). It's just that when you buy GW, you get 16. When you buy Perry, you get 40, and you pay less per box.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that GW pricing is a little bit on the insane side.

I can't disagree with this list.

it all makes sense so far, i get the thing with shop overheads and running costs but because its a chain it feeds from multiple locations and if they were doing soooo bad they would reduce shops etc but i cant say ive seen that many shut down.....being in london that is....so im not sure with this fact worldwide

But lets say they have reason to stay expensive the problem they are not offering anything nor making sales appealing by giving me a deal if i buy say X amount of things form them. Theres is nothing going on like that.

I mean even tesco has a point system in place for god sakes. I do my poxy grocery shopping and i get points added to my card for discounts and cash back stuff.....I cant believe that GW hasnt picked up on the thousand things they could do to get people buying more because it becomes more attractive to tell customers its this much but since you bought so much its this much off.

I went to dark sphere in march and wanted to buy a storm raven, i thought hey i might as well pick up a box vanguards too......the women goes to me why dont you spend another 15 quid and get 30% off instead of 25%. I didnt even think about it....i thought bring a box of death company. I saved about 35 quid which is more than another box of GW stuff if i were at their store and i only had plans to spend about 37 quid on the storm raven...

yes my wife nearly killed me but it was worth it i thought,,,,,

Honestly

If the rules where Free (as they mostly should be while also releasing collectors addition stuff so that collectors can be happy and sell fluff stuff on the sides for fluff bunnies)

I wouldn't have any issue picking up kits at the current price

in fact i think it would encourage me to pick up other armies and even fantasy by chance.

But GW and free doesn't work well..


Edit: Also as below for the people down under.

It'd be nice if Australian prices weren't predicated on an outdated exchange rate (ie. £1:$3).

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It'd be nice if Australian prices weren't predicated on an outdated exchange rate (ie. £1:$3).

this is sadly true but i dont think its that, its the cost of exporting to AUS. they are charging on the kits the approx cost of shipping it to you also so i guess a crate load would be in the 1000s of pounds so about 2500 AUS Dollars that on about 1000 kits would be exchnage rate (current) + 2.5 ontop = 7 AUS Dollars....

i think my thinking is correct.......hmmmmmmm

I'm fine paying extra for shipping - it's the reality of living so far away from everyone else - but 3x the cost? Come on. When it's cheaper to buy it over-seas (still paying shipping), then someone's having a go.

 Chute82 wrote:

Da Stormlord wrote:

 Barksdale wrote:
From a price/quality standpoint I'm fine with where they're at now. But let's face it, even if they were free, people would still find reasons to bitch.

I agree. There's an independent wargaming stall 2 streets from my local games workshop, they sell 40k for 20%-40% cheaper than my local gw, but people still continue to go to the gw stall. Ever since GW announced they lost approx 3,000,000 English pounds they've cut down how many days they're open...

Do they buy their stuff at the lgs and play at the GW store?

Nah, they completely ignore the IGS

the prices were fine IMO back in fifth. 30 bucks US retail or so for a box of grey knight, 25 or less from a discounter! that is not that bad at all, IMO

the new pricing i cant stomach. 100+ for wraithknights and that crap is just too much. cut those prices almost in half and people might be able to justify it to themselves.

kb305 wrote:
the prices were fine IMO back in fifth. 30 bucks US retail or so for a box of grey knight, 25 or less from a discounter! that is not that bad at all, IMO

the new pricing i cant stomach. 100+ for wraithknights and that crap is just too much. cut those prices almost in half and people might be able to justify it to themselves.

I've been interested in 40k for a long time, and I just decided to start. The prices were by far the most difficult thing to stomach.

They should have economic tiers of models. Still make old marines with less detail and price them for beginners/apocalypse players with the higher quality models priced for collectors and serious players.

 jabbakahut wrote:
They should have economic tiers of models. Still make old marines with less detail and price them for beginners/apocalypse players with the higher quality models priced for collectors and serious players.

I don't know much, but that seems like more work than GW is willing to put in.

WayneTheGame wrote:
There's actually two problems here:

1) The price per boxed set is very high
2) The scale of the game is large, making #1 seem even more expensive because you need more boxes

This is in my opinion what is particularly killing Fantasy, where the amount of minis you need is even bigger. Unless you choose the Starter box armies, the amount of infantry boxes you need to buy for full sized army is considerable, and amount of what that will cost is just insane. Ditto for some more miniature-intensive 40k armies like IG or Orks. You need a rather fat wallet to build a Foot Guard or Green Tide army...
GW just doesn't have enough good "bulk" deals anymore. When infantry is generally 5 or 10 minis per box, you need to buy loads of them for ~100 mini army. I don't know if it's just blatant ripping off, or their twisted idea of promoting "premium" image of the game, but they seriously need to bring back 20 infantry guy boxes.

 jabbakahut wrote:
They should have economic tiers of models. Still make old marines with less detail and price them for beginners/apocalypse players with the higher quality models priced for collectors and serious players.

No, details doesn't equal quality. production costs are likely the same for a marine vs a marine covered in purity seals, so they would never do this.

If they cultivated a relationship with their customers, prices would be less of an issue. A $75 Land Raider in the context of a warm, friendly, and appreciative GW feels better than it does coming from a cold, distant, somewhat predatory GW.

People notice things like manipulating game balance/rules to drive sales. Its a quick cash grab, which doesn't exactly line up with Kirbys alleged focus on the long term. People don't like doing business with greedy liars.

sand.zzz wrote:
If they cultivated a relationship with their customers, prices would be less of an issue. A $75 Land Raider in the context of a warm, friendly, and appreciative GW feels better than it does coming from a cold, distant, somewhat predatory GW.

People notice things like manipulating game balance/rules to drive sales. Its a quick cash grab, which doesn't exactly line up with Kirbys alleged focus on the long term. People don't like doing business with greedy liars.

My local GW store has done quite well in sales for this reason. The manager is very friendly and greets each customer by name. People keep coming back even though the prices are higher than buying models on ebay.

Consistency is the real issue as mentioned before. Something's are downright perplexing, like the stormboyz box.

kb305 wrote:

 jabbakahut wrote:
They should have economic tiers of models. Still make old marines with less detail and price them for beginners/apocalypse players with the higher quality models priced for collectors and serious players.

No, details doesn't equal quality. production costs are likely the same for a marine vs a marine covered in purity seals, so they would never do this.

Well, they do have the snap fit guys which are a bit cheaper. The SM ones are 6 quid for 3 snap fits iirc. Tac squad is 25 quid for 10, but you get all the extra bitz.

Some prices are OK, but most are a little high. I think an overall decrease of 20% would be good with some items dropping as much as 30%.

I wasn't saying they would do it, please. What moron on a forum believes GW would do anything to benefit the consumers? I've been wasting my money on this stuff for 22 years, nothing changes for the better.