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They are years ahead in terms of resin casting? Why doesn't that translate well with Finecast, if they have years of experience?

And GW plastics may be good quality-wise, but years ahead is an extreme hyperbole. Have you seen the quality of Shieldwolf orcs and Perry plastics? Note that these are the same Perrys who worked for GW. Mantic is a bit hit or miss, but detail-wise their plastic sculpts are just as good as GWs, but admittedly they lack customizability.

GW basically sells what amounts to McDonalds at 5-star restaurant prices while saying that they're a 5-star restaurant and not McDonalds.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Citation needed. The Perrys and Dreamforge Games are producing models, in plastic, that are of comparable quality, substantially better pricing and technically greater sophistication than anything I've seen from GW that I can recall.

GWs Imperial Knights are a laugh in sophistication next to the Dreamforge Leviathans. Down to individually posed fingers and toes, larger and still cheaper with a titan range of swappable arms and amazing poseability. No plastic GW produces comes close.

New GW infantry plastics are roughly on par with the new DFG/WWX infantry plastics by WGF, though tbh I think WGF plastics edge them out still in quality, not to mention getting up to 4x for cheaper.

WayneTheGame wrote:
GW basically sells what amounts to McDonalds at 5-star restaurant prices while saying that they're a 5-star restaurant and not McDonalds.

Yep. Sometimes you really feel like that greasy maccas fix, but you regret it afterwards and wish you had of gone for subway, or at least chinese.

Stuff to get started, rules books, codexes and the min models to play should be cost or bare min markup. All the fluffy add ons can have a mark up but having sales wouldnt hurt. I found 15% coupons in some White Dwarfs from years ago. Valid at X store on Y date off course.

I am, and have been some time, an advocate of a modular starter system. Don't force people to buy the contents of a set box, do one HQ choice, 2 x Troops, 1 x "other" plus codex for a bargain price, obviously ensure it all comes from the same faction, and if management felt there were certain outliers that needed to be excluded (perhaps have a £30 RRP limit in the "other" box) and boom, a playable starter army, or an ideal start to an allied detachment. Have that at a keen price, sub £100 definitely, ideally sub £80, and you'd have a decent entry point, which had appeal to the established gamer also, which might not make you huge profits but would drive revenue and make it a much easier to get new blood.

My thoughts:

Tactical marines box: £20

The price we have now isn't too bad, but these aren't the most complex models in existence. They can't be that expensive to make.

Assault marines: £25 for 10

The only real difference between these and tacticals is different weapons and a bigger backpack. Shouldn't make them 2x the price.

Imperial Guard shocktroopers: £20

They have an equal amount of detail as 28mm WW2 plastics and you need the same amount, hence the similar prices.

Plastic characters: £5 at most.

These are monopose, 1/56 scale styrene models. Miniart, Trumpeter will give you a multi-pose 1/16 scale figure with the same material and price as current.

Space Marine plastic captain: £8

Are higher demand and should come with a PE fret containing chapter symbols, so can be sold for more than other PCs.

High Elf Spearman/archers: £12 for 20

They're dated and boring miniatures.

Finecast models: same price

Just make them really high quality resin that GW tells you they are and I don't mind the price.

Skaven clanrats: 40 for £30

They're great miniatures, but you need a complete fethton of them.

Also:

Privateer Press Miniatures: 60% of the US price in Britain, 75% of US price in other EU countries.

Only 5% of the world's population lives in the USA PP. Stop making the other 95% pay more.

Saldiven wrote:
If you want to see what the prices "should" be, then look at companies like Tamiya USA and see what they charge for their models. Tamiya models are, across the board, higher quality products than anything produced by GW. Despite this, similarly scaled models from Tamiya cost about 50%-75% what GW models cost. The Tamiya models have far more pieces and better detail than the GW product.

*cough* Challenger 2 *cough* 1/32 scale *cough*

To me, they seem to be priced above the industry standard, which will reduce sales. GW's attitude has long been that they get to set all industry standards (and it was actually true for a while). They need to look at the ktis designed by their competitors- Privateer Press, Covus Belli, Wyrd Games etc.

The rulebooks are the biggest offenders, in my opinion, as they create a very large barrier to entry. Comparing them to a few other currently available games- here are the rules people need to play and how much they cost:

$15 (Malifaux- they also have a $35 version with more fluff and art)
$20 (Dark Age)
$30 (Warmachine, Hordes)
$50 (Infinity, Relic Knights- both are also available online for free, and RK gives you the full rules and cards in their $50 starter boxes).


$85+$50 (Warhammer 40,000) you need to spend $135 in order to have the rules you need to play one army. And for that $135, you do not get any miniatures that you could play with.

Do you see the barrier to entry? Most games now give you rules with the minis, and many of them will hand out rulebooks for free online. GW has hunkered down and made entry into their game the most expensive in the industry by a wide margin.

- Their core rulebook should be about $30. $35 is fine, and it is totally ok to release a nicer version for more, but they should be available for no more than $35 (note that the other companies selling $50 core books have made the rules available for free).

odinsgrandson,

I simply cannot agree more. It is what I've come to call the "subscription" model of gaming. You need to Pay to Play - and every couple of years your "subscription" runs out and you must buy a new rulebook.

A friend gave me a huge Tyranid Army because he didn't want to shell out for the new $50 rulebook. ($50 isn't impossible, but if you have multiple armies, it sure adds up quick!). I have done nothing with these BEAUTIFUL models because I am not ready to shell out for the new book (I have not yet decided whether I am going to buy the new Ork Dex - this is for my main army - and beyond that, there is kind of a Second Dex for Orks (another $50) that details special formations that help you stay competitive, field the Ghazghkull Unit, etc).

At this moment my group wants to stay with 6th Edition. Across our whole group we are saving probably $600 with this move - at least. As for me, I plan to stay with the old Ork Dex. It is a nice temporary solution. Too bad, because without the new rules and dex I have no reason to consider the latest Ork Models which are only detailed in that dex.

To chime in one more thought, all the new boxed sets seem to be moving towards $10/$12 per model. Like the Flash Gitz at $60 a box for 5, I think. One has to remember that this price is Before Paint Costs are applied. Each bottle of paint is probably $4 and you need several to make a decent model. For someone buying their very first kit (no paints at home) that first box of Gits plus paint and brushes are going to get close to $100US for sure.

 Solorg wrote:
I simply cannot agree more. It is what I've come to call the "subscription" model of gaming. You need to Pay to Play - and every couple of years your "subscription" runs out and you must buy a new rulebook.

Indeed.

I think one problem is that GW seems to think that the only possible way to sell models is to change books.

 heartserenade wrote:
And GW plastics may be good quality-wise, but years ahead is an extreme hyperbole.

Yup.
Their vehicles are decades behind those from Revell or Zvezda. And they're at least twice or thrice as expensive.

 vipoid wrote:

 Solorg wrote:
I simply cannot agree more. It is what I've come to call the "subscription" model of gaming. You need to Pay to Play - and every couple of years your "subscription" runs out and you must buy a new rulebook.

Indeed.

I think one problem is that GW seems to think that the only possible way to sell models is to change books.

The most annoying part of GW's subscription gaming is that new codices often invalidate entire lists. I am genuinely sorry for Tyranid players in that regard.

StraightSilver wrote:

I don't think (and this is a personal opinion) that 3-D printing is any threat to GW, but I believe the kick starter phenomenon is and I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in Kirby's pre-amble.

He's either deluded (see previous comments about Pokemon) or it's deliberate misdirection. He chose to spend a paragraph dismissing the threat of 3D printing a decade away, and even then he didn't seem to understand the industry. He didn't bother to address any of the threats right now, the loss of market share to other miniatures companies producing right now, nor did he address the loss to appealing Kickstarters that customers are now investing in instead of GW. No, he'd rather talk about and dismiss the threat of 3D printers in ten years time. At the rate GW are going, they won't be around in ten years time. The bluster is simply because he has no answers to the real challenges to the company.

If GW is a Ferarri, it is increasingly becoming one that you can't take out of the garage or driveway. It isn't a smooth or pleasant ride, and all the parts are designed to fail after a year or so if you want to go anywhere you have to buy a bunch of new parts. Oh sure it might look good in the driveway but it is pretty embarrassing whenever you try to go anywhere with it, and with all the noise, vibrations, uncomfortable seat, and inability to approach the speed it could when you bought it why would you want to?

 Throt wrote:

I swear I am a glutton for punishment because I always come to these threads to try to convince people that this entire topic is opinion and each opinion is as valid as the next.

Take a philosophy course, every opinion IS NOT as valid as the next.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yonan wrote:

 Throt wrote:
Most people believe GW prices are just fine.

When your post is based on this false premise, it's not really worth reading. The rapidly declining sales along with numerous accounts of players stating it's at least partially due to prices show it as incorrect.

edit: I skimmed the rest and yeah, so much... baloney? I believe is the US term for it.

What this bloke said!

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:

I don't think (and this is a personal opinion) that 3-D printing is any threat to GW, but I believe the kick starter phenomenon is and I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in Kirby's pre-amble.

He's either deluded (see previous comments about Pokemon) or it's deliberate misdirection. He chose to spend a paragraph dismissing the threat of 3D printing a decade away, and even then he didn't seem to understand the industry. He didn't bother to address any of the threats right now, the loss of market share to other miniatures companies producing right now, nor did he address the loss to appealing Kickstarters that customers are now investing in instead of GW. No, he'd rather talk about and dismiss the threat of 3D printers in ten years time. At the rate GW are going, they won't be around in ten years time. The bluster is simply because he has no answers to the real challenges to the company.

This was my take on the future of GW and 3D printers:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/564209.page#6269755

Main quote:

"Below is entirely fiction but how I see the future for their models:

Next we will have the "GW miniature printer": buy the introductory $300 box set (the printer) with the 30 model units licensing included (free!!!!) and go to their website and make your selections and it will download your models and go to work! Do not forget to purchase more of the Citadel "armorplas" TM for printing: you would not want to run out (costs like gold and sells like it!!!). You could later buy the $200 add-on for vehicle size printing, the $400 for apocalypse units and $800 for the titan builder model (special deals included for "armorplas" TM with this purchase!). All "GW miniature printers" come in various models as well: character quality (add $200), display quality (add $400) and golden daemon (add $800). Note: at any time certain models may no longer be supported for "legacy" printers since we want to ensure the highest quality output GW experience where possible. Some exceptions with quality level upgrades. You want this too right???

I think I got the heebie jeebies writing that bit. "

Still gives me the creeps thinking about it...

Of note as of the last couple years has been the fact that main-line GW plastic infantry kits are coming out priced at the same level as Forgeworld kits. Stuff like Dire Avengers and Tempestus Scions vs Death Korps Grenadiers, and stuff like SM HQ models are largely interchangably priced. Codex books are approaching Imperial Armour book pricing.

At this point, GW's mainline products are thoroughly at the "boutique" pricing level one would expect of specialized manufacturers producing niche products and display pieces, not mass produced plastic kits.

I've spent so much on GW stuff over the years that I'm terrified to count it, but over the last...year and a half/two years, my spending has dropped to almost nothing becaue I just can't justify the prices. The Imperial Knight is an excellent example, at $140 I'm not buying one, but had they come out at $90 I'd have bought two, just as I ended up with 4 Baneblades when they were $90.


I'm not really sure what they're pricing strategy is. However, it's clear that GW is facing some distress. Not only are their absolute numbers down, but adjusting for inflation and looking back go 2003, the *real* value of their revenue has been dropping as well, with a peak of ~152m in 2004 (nearly 192m in 2014 inflation-adjusted dollars) down to 123.5m in 2014. Couple this with drastically increased prices on many/most items and the inescapable conclusion is that the volume of kits being sold is decreasing, and decreasing pretty significantly.

I know for me personally my spending has dropped off because of pricing, dissatisfaction with rules, and less engaging background, and while I can't speak for others, it would appear that I'm not the only one drastically cutting spending on GW products these days.

WayneTheGame wrote:
GW basically sells what amounts to McDonalds at 5-star restaurant prices while saying that they're a 5-star restaurant and not McDonalds.

haha, nice

 Talizvar wrote:

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:

I don't think (and this is a personal opinion) that 3-D printing is any threat to GW, but I believe the kick starter phenomenon is and I'm surprised it wasn't mentioned in Kirby's pre-amble.

He's either deluded (see previous comments about Pokemon) or it's deliberate misdirection. He chose to spend a paragraph dismissing the threat of 3D printing a decade away, and even then he didn't seem to understand the industry. He didn't bother to address any of the threats right now, the loss of market share to other miniatures companies producing right now, nor did he address the loss to appealing Kickstarters that customers are now investing in instead of GW. No, he'd rather talk about and dismiss the threat of 3D printers in ten years time. At the rate GW are going, they won't be around in ten years time. The bluster is simply because he has no answers to the real challenges to the company.

This was my take on the future of GW and 3D printers:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/564209.page#6269755

Main quote:

"Below is entirely fiction but how I see the future for their models:

Next we will have the "GW miniature printer": buy the introductory $300 box set (the printer) with the 30 model units licensing included (free!!!!) and go to their website and make your selections and it will download your models and go to work! Do not forget to purchase more of the Citadel "armorplas" TM for printing: you would not want to run out (costs like gold and sells like it!!!). You could later buy the $200 add-on for vehicle size printing, the $400 for apocalypse units and $800 for the titan builder model (special deals included for "armorplas" TM with this purchase!). All "GW miniature printers" come in various models as well: character quality (add $200), display quality (add $400) and golden daemon (add $800). Note: at any time certain models may no longer be supported for "legacy" printers since we want to ensure the highest quality output GW experience where possible. Some exceptions with quality level upgrades. You want this too right???

I think I got the heebie jeebies writing that bit. "

Still gives me the creeps thinking about it...

I don't think it would go down that road, more likely:

GW: buy a license to design and print 10 of this type of model, after 10 printings the files self delete. saves about 15% off the cost of the model.

Other companies will have contests to submit your designs to be accepted as the official models. buy the design once and print off what you need.

groups like FUBAR, pop up like weeds with all sorts of new games with free rules downloads and a community designing and sharing models that you can print at home. any genre ever imagined will be recreated as table top games.

 sing your life wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
If you want to see what the prices "should" be, then look at companies like Tamiya USA and see what they charge for their models. Tamiya models are, across the board, higher quality products than anything produced by GW. Despite this, similarly scaled models from Tamiya cost about 50%-75% what GW models cost. The Tamiya models have far more pieces and better detail than the GW product.

*cough* Challenger 2 *cough* 1/32 scale *cough*

That's a much larger scale. By most accounts, 28mm Heroic is somewhere between 1:48 and 1:64, depending on the model and manufacturer. A 1:32 scale model is roughly 25-33% larger than a 1:48, so wound necessarily cost more. That's why I specifically did my comparison to their 1:48 line of models.

Saldiven wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
If you want to see what the prices "should" be, then look at companies like Tamiya USA and see what they charge for their models. Tamiya models are, across the board, higher quality products than anything produced by GW. Despite this, similarly scaled models from Tamiya cost about 50%-75% what GW models cost. The Tamiya models have far more pieces and better detail than the GW product.

*cough* Challenger 2 *cough* 1/32 scale *cough*

That's a much larger scale. By most accounts, 28mm Heroic is somewhere between 1:48 and 1:64, depending on the model and manufacturer. A 1:32 scale model is roughly 25-33% larger than a 1:48, so wound necessarily cost more. That's why I specifically did my comparison to their 1:48 line of models.

That's good, but Tamiya isn't the manufacturer to go to if you want to compare scale models to citadel. The Challenger 2 I mentioned is £44.99, just as much as a kit by Meng, Takom or AFv club, who would give you photo-etch and workable tracks instead of crappy bits of vinyl in the former kit. And Revell has a new spitfire in 1/32 which has half the detail of Tamiya's version for 1/6 of the price.

 sing your life wrote:

Saldiven wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

Saldiven wrote:
If you want to see what the prices "should" be, then look at companies like Tamiya USA and see what they charge for their models. Tamiya models are, across the board, higher quality products than anything produced by GW. Despite this, similarly scaled models from Tamiya cost about 50%-75% what GW models cost. The Tamiya models have far more pieces and better detail than the GW product.

*cough* Challenger 2 *cough* 1/32 scale *cough*

That's a much larger scale. By most accounts, 28mm Heroic is somewhere between 1:48 and 1:64, depending on the model and manufacturer. A 1:32 scale model is roughly 25-33% larger than a 1:48, so wound necessarily cost more. That's why I specifically did my comparison to their 1:48 line of models.

That's good, but Tamiya isn't the manufacturer to go to if you want to compare scale models to citadel. The Challenger 2 I mentioned is £44.99, just as much as a kit by Meng, Takom or AFv club, who would give you photo-etch and workable tracks instead of crappy bits of vinyl in the former kit. And Revell has a new spitfire in 1/32 which has half the detail of Tamiya's version for 1/6 of the price.

All of which is largely irrelevant to my original point that there are companies (like Tamiya, but not restricted to Tamiya) who make comparably sized models of quality at least as good as current GW products for a fraction of the cost. This is despite being much smaller companies as far as gross revenue. A bigger company like GW should be able to appropriately exploit the economics of scale to produce their models fare more cheaply than they do, but their business model (largely caused by their insistence on having their own retail network) prevents them from doing so.

Saldiven wrote:

All of which is largely irrelevant to my original point that there are companies (like Tamiya, but not restricted to Tamiya) who make comparably sized models of quality at least as good as current GW products for a fraction of the cost. This is despite being much smaller companies as far as gross revenue. A bigger company like GW should be able to appropriately exploit the economics of scale to produce their models fare more cheaply than they do, but their business model (largely caused by their insistence on having their own retail network) prevents them from doing so.

IIRC Tamiya is quite a big bigger than GW - though most of their sales come from RC kits.

I don't know if Tamiya and other Japanese manufacturers still produce their kits in Japan. Tamiya and Hasegawa used to be crazy expensive back in the day, these days seems less so. Most of the model kits nowadays are produced in China.

For someone who's been collecting GW models for over 20 years, I've seen their prices rocket over the last few years. The points about intro items being cheaper or even negative profit making is bang on. Sadly I think GW has become too big for it's own good. Whats started as a bunch of gamers putting together different gaming systems and having fun, has turned into a cut-throat business. I'm not saying they shouldn't have sound business advise from professionals who can steer the company forward, but the whole thing is too profit driven. I know many current and ex staff members who are absolutely targets driven. Be it gaming/painting tutorials or simple sales. They are actively encouraged to get the sale, which normally means some poor parent being hounded into buying the starter set game, glue paint set, basing set and a codex. Only for the young kid to loose interest and the whole lot being either auctioned online or sold for peanuts at a car boot sale. Again most retail outlets have targets, but having been pounced on by a staff member who just appears on your shoulder, who actually mostly doesn't want to help but just sell you stuff, it gets a little old, again not their fault but lame.

I know plenty of 40k players who have moved to non-GW gaming systems as the price has just got too much and the earlier point of changing the codex's just grates everyone. Yes the new codex tends to balance out any rules kinks that have evolved since it's release, but will also push the newest models with sexy rules. I understand that's basic marketing, but every new codex has invalidated my current Army in some way, either due to points changes or completely changing the Army structure. Dark Angels a few years ago is a prime example, squads of 5 or 10. I'd end up throwing points for upgrades at ,models to spend the points.

Simple fact though is like most of you I'm hooked, it's my hobby and like most of you I've spend thousands, I have a huge backlog of painting to get done with complete Armies still in the box. I can easily cut down and to be honest I probably spend 25% of what I used to. If I want something new then I go straight to the independent stockists and save at least 20%. GW still gets some money but not the full amount. As for new blood, the GW stores used to be full of young kids on a Saturday morning, fighting a imperial vs aliens or something similar mass game. Now that's almost unheard of. So there's very little younger/new players joining. If I were GW I would seriously look at how they 'hook' people because at the moment I don't see many new players coming through and without them they have no real future?

 Vaktathi wrote:
Of note as of the last couple years has been the fact that main-line GW plastic infantry kits are coming out priced at the same level as Forgeworld kits. Stuff like Dire Avengers and Tempestus Scions vs Death Korps Grenadiers, and stuff like SM HQ models are largely interchangably priced. Codex books are approaching Imperial Armour book pricing.

At this point, GW's mainline products are thoroughly at the "boutique" pricing level one would expect of specialized manufacturers producing niche products and display pieces, not mass produced plastic kits.

I've spent so much on GW stuff over the years that I'm terrified to count it, but over the last...year and a half/two years, my spending has dropped to almost nothing becaue I just can't justify the prices. The Imperial Knight is an excellent example, at $140 I'm not buying one, but had they come out at $90 I'd have bought two, just as I ended up with 4 Baneblades when they were $90.


I'm not really sure what they're pricing strategy is. However, it's clear that GW is facing some distress. Not only are their absolute numbers down, but adjusting for inflation and looking back go 2003, the *real* value of their revenue has been dropping as well, with a peak of ~152m in 2004 (nearly 192m in 2014 inflation-adjusted dollars) down to 123.5m in 2014. Couple this with drastically increased prices on many/most items and the inescapable conclusion is that the volume of kits being sold is decreasing, and decreasing pretty significantly.

I know for me personally my spending has dropped off because of pricing, dissatisfaction with rules, and less engaging background, and while I can't speak for others, it would appear that I'm not the only one drastically cutting spending on GW products these days.

I couldn't agree more. The amount of money I have spent on GW products has dropped from most of my available cash every month to nothing the last six months (not even second hand products). This is a combination of the price of GW miniatures going up, and the quality of the game itself remaining poor.
The fact that they changed editions after such a short time completely killed the game where I live. Personally I think the books are too expensive, since there only is an expensive version of each, and not a budget/paperback like the competing games have available.

Since winter, I have gone from playing 40K once a week, to one game of 40K period. The last two or three months, I have seen two people asking for a game of 40K locally. People mostly play Flames of War, Malifaux and Warmachine instead, while some even play Mordheim and The Hobbit/LoTR.

Solorg wrote:It is what I've come to call the "subscription" model of gaming. You need to Pay to Play - and every couple of years your "subscription" runs out and you must buy a new rulebook...

That's a terrific metaphor. You've really summarized the model perfectly.

Bonde wrote:
The fact that they changed editions after such a short time completely killed the game where I live.

And here's the problem with this model. A new codex or new edition is often a terrific entry point (how many of you have looked at the Dark Eldar codex and releases and thought "oh man, I really want those."

But they're also a convenient exit point for people who are already drifting away a little. And with the high upkeep price of the rulebook, it can drive people off.

I think they'd be helped a lot if they didn't create these barriers to entry.

Look at the new Dungeons and Dragons- you can get most of the core rules online for free and try them out (or at least decide what you think). That cuts down on the barrier to entry (and we're gamers- once we're in, we spend money).

I wouldn't say GW is producing McDonalds quality at 5 star price.

Forgeworld is 5 star price, and reaper bones are McDonalds.
GW is a step up from fast food, I would say something like Chili's quality. Its OK, sometimes is terrible, sometimes is OK. They also have some good stuff that makes you stay with them, even though when someone talks about food you never bring up how much you love it. No one brags about going to eat at Chili's just like no one brags about how awesome their 40k collection is in these threads.

Pricing though would be comparable to an airport, or tourist spot Chili's. You know it should be 20-30% cheaper, you have seen it that cheap. You also know you are here and are going to pay for it anyway, because you are hungry for plastic models. Either way, when you notice the tip was already included on the check, and they still have the spot for the tip, you just get angry and go complain on the internet.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I wouldn't say GW is producing McDonalds quality at 5 star price.

Forgeworld is 5 star price, and reaper bones are McDonalds.
GW is a step up from fast food, I would say something like Chili's quality. Its OK, sometimes is terrible, sometimes is OK. They also have some good stuff that makes you stay with them, even though when someone talks about food you never bring up how much you love it. No one brags about going to eat at Chili's just like no one brags about how awesome their 40k collection is in these threads.

Pricing though would be comparable to an airport, or tourist spot Chili's. You know it should be 20-30% cheaper, you have seen it that cheap. You also know you are here and are going to pay for it anyway, because you are hungry for plastic models. Either way, when you notice the tip was already included on the check, and they still have the spot for the tip, you just get angry and go complain on the internet.

The Chili's analogy is a decent one. I agree, sometimes GW's products are horrendous ie Murderfang, Logan Claus Sled, but sometimes the products look amazing ie Valkyrie (of course, whether or not a model looks good is completely subjective). The same applies to the rules. I genuinely like some game mechanics and hate others. I wish GW's prices were lower, but I feel the product is good enough to warrant me buying it. YMMV.

I don't know too much about the exact costs of making a plastic model, but I think I have a firm grasping when it comes to certain concepts in production, economics, and accounting.

A couple questions I'd ask is, when evaluating the Margin the minis have (I believe I saw elsewhere on one of the threads here that it was 75%), what portion of that is the cost of materials and construction, and how much of that is based on initial costs like R&D, The initial Molds, Box Design and Sculpture, etc?

If the latter is significantly higher than the former, then is the strategy of selling less for more providing them as much margin as they could be making by selling more for less?
(I have no idea what it actually costs mind you, so bear with my nonsense numbers)

Say Murderfang costs $30,000 to design. Then each Murderfang they make costs and additional 25 cents to spit out. They decide to make 1,000 Murderfangs because that's how many they think people will buy. So divvied up it cost them $30.25 to make a Murderfang, and they're going to sell it for $54.00, making $54,000, and $23,750 in profit.

But what if they had produced 2,000 Murderfangs? Divving up the cost then it would only cost them $15.25 to make a Murderfang. You could sell it at $35 each and still make $39,500 in profit.

Or even if they kept it the same price, generally it seems based on feedback I've seen generally demand far outweighs the supply their limited runs provide even at current prices, so even if they want to keep their prices, the math just seems to show that they're throwing money out the window with such limited releases, because the more units they sell at a given price, the higher their margins.

(I kinda like Murderfang, but then I also like the Noise marines that wielded Electric Guitars and fought with Heavy Metal )
----------

So I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think lowering their prices would more than pay for itself.

 kerikhaos wrote:
Ok everyone over the last few months of being a part of this amazing forum i have read countless times about how people feel unhappy because of the purchase costs of the GW lineup.

My question quite simply is "how much should these items be in your opinion and why?"

use a current example of GW items for base and provide your reasonable cost price along with reasons why......

What I want: Current UK prices less VAT less wholesale discount + actual shipping + each retailer pricing as they wish.

I have no problem with the UK prices. Even the US prices aren't that bad. It's the screw Canada and screw Australia prices combined with the embargo that got me to finally stop buying any GW products. I got some chaos stuff off eBay from the states that was still on sprue a year or so ago, but that's it.

The main issue though, even with UK prices, is the cost of an entire army. When GW grew from a UK importer of Dungeons & Dragons into an international miniatures company, it was with a game with a model count half that of the current one.

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The question is would you continue buying the GW products but from different retailers if they were cheaper? Obviously having the choice of course.

Would this put a weight of guilt on your shoulders if you were a continuous open tournament player at the local GW (having turning up with Loads of brand new gear) and the local GW management thinking "where did this dude buy all this lot from? I'm sure it wasn't here". Would you feel embarrassed to turn up with the new gear or would you kiss your teeth and keep confident that your buying at a cheaper rate makes you smarter than the average GW collector?

I quests e question is would you feel embarrassed to show up with stuff you bought from elsewhere or just turn up confident as always without giving a second thought?

The question I think will test someone's GW loyalty?...