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I would like to have a GK Force of MEQ and TEQ be viable, I would rather not run warbands or inq spam.

Not all GK players are fans of the INQ side of the codex, and with Inq having its own codex, removal of that stuff for better Space Marine related options would be better in my book

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I would like to have a GK Force of MEQ and TEQ be viable, I would rather not run warbands or inq spam.

Not all GK players are fans of the INQ side of the codex, and with Inq having its own codex, removal of that stuff for better Space Marine related options would be better in my book

yup, I would rather have a only GK codex now that INQ has it's own.

 ashikenshin wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I would like to have a GK Force of MEQ and TEQ be viable, I would rather not run warbands or inq spam.

Not all GK players are fans of the INQ side of the codex, and with Inq having its own codex, removal of that stuff for better Space Marine related options would be better in my book

yup, I would rather have a only GK codex now that INQ has it's own.

So you want it to be more fluffy and cool at the expense of how good the army actually is? IMO the Inquisition is what makes GKs good. Especially with OS being such a big deal apparently, having the 20+ warp charge dice and 6 OS transports is good. If you want to blow points on Terminators that will get hit by one Riptide IA shot and die, then go ahead, but if they take out inquisition and there is no option to take is as an ally that doesn't count for a slot (talking about how the BAO lets you have one CAD and one other detachment) then I would rather sell all my GKs then play them if they are going to be a small codex comprised of Characters, Draigo (most likely to be a LoW), Paladins, Terminators, no more assassins, no inquisitorial stuff, Dreadnoughts, Dread knights, transports, and purgation squads.

If they change it too much, I don't see how they would be good at all. With GKs getting their own psychic discipline, that must be good, but if they lose too much, that probably can't make up for it. I really want GKs to be great again, not a crazy, but still seen at tournaments more, without it being the Centruion Star. In fact, the only thing that would be good about a GK codex change is the fact that if inquisitors and GKs split, then you lose one GK librarian if you still want to run the Cent Star, it still just mitigates the damage it can do though.

In conclusion, I want GKs to do well and become more viable on the tournament scene, but if they are going to take out what is already making them hang in there, I don't see how they can be changed if they are not going to make new kits.

 ashikenshin wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I would like to have a GK Force of MEQ and TEQ be viable, I would rather not run warbands or inq spam.

Not all GK players are fans of the INQ side of the codex, and with Inq having its own codex, removal of that stuff for better Space Marine related options would be better in my book

yup, I would rather have a only GK codex now that INQ has it's own.

Agreed. Inq should be their own hardback mini-codex, like Knights.

The question then becomes what does codex GK need with the removal of Inquisition?
Going through the FOC minus the INQ stuff

HQ:
Draigo (99% move to Lord of War)
Grand Master (Chapter master eq)
Mordrak (could go away for lacking a model, but could also be given a model in a box set or something. Ghost Knights could easily become a conjuration spell for him)
Brother Captain (Captain eq)
Stern (Has a model, not going anywhere)
Brotherhood Champion (Odd bird, meant to duel, needs updated to fit better with current challenge mechanics. Possibly better moved to Elite?)
Crowe (Named champion, regarded as poor, a "tax" to get purifiers as troops. Needs a rethink, esp if Brotherhood champion moves to elites.
Librarian (Librarian eq)

Pretty similar to other SM books. Lacking a command squad/honor guard unit of some sort, but Paladins are basically that but in elites. Also missing a Chaplain, who exists in the fluff, and would fit in well if the champion moves to elites.

Elites:
Techmarine (currently used as a grenade caddy mostly. Maybe fix grenades and give him servitor access? Otherwise fine.)
Purifiers (Veteran troop EQ. 2 specials per 5, extra attack base. Cleansing Flame made them strong.)
Venerable Dreadnought (Probably needs a point drop to match other Ven dreads)
Paladin Squad (Elite Terminators mixed with command squad elements). Could use Dedicated transport options

Removing the Inq stuff hits Elites pretty hard- henchmen and assassins. Moving the Brotherhood Champion to Elites may help, and the likely end of purifiers and paladins as troops means competition will be up. If they do a new Dreadnought kit for GK, a Librarian Dread in Elites would make a lot of sense, as BA started the trend.

Troops:
Terminator Squad (Basic terminators. Could use dedicated transport options)
Justicar Thawn (upgrade character for Terminator squad. Could easily disappear)
GK squad (Basic troops)

Troops will be taken more if Paladins and Purifiers are no longer troop options. Expensive base, but GK are an elite army. It would be nice for troops (and by extension everyone) if Nemesis weapons were a bit more equalized and costed the same for everyone- Make the sword, halberd, and falchions AP3, and have them give +1WS, +1I, and Shred respectively. Keep the hammer as a Thunderhammer Eq for +10 points, and the Warding Stave as a Force Stave +2 Str, AP4, concussive with a +1 to Invul and Deny the witch saves for +15 or +20

Fast Attack:

Stormraven (really a HS plane, only in FA due to lack of other options)
Interceptor Squad (Jump infantry EQ)

Weakest section of the FOC. 2 units, one that should really be in HS. Plenty of room for expansion. GK are high tech, and lack biker equivalents, so a Jetbike unit would be nice, though DA players would cry. Maybe add a flier, possibly the Storm Talon, to deal with flying daemons?

Heavy Support

Purgation Squad (Devastator Eq)
Dreadnought (mainly here to fill out HS, normally an elite slot unit)
Dreadknight (Works well as HS.)
Land Raider + variants (It's a land raider)

Like FA, rather light on options. Another area for possible new kits. Gk specific Centurions could help fill out FA and HS, with assaulty ones with nemesis weapons in FA and shooty ones with Psy-weapons and lascannons for HS. Would probably deserve a specific kit as well, with the proper weapons and engraved plates and such. Maybe give FA centurions the option to buy Teleporters like Interceptors?

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 ashikenshin wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I would like to have a GK Force of MEQ and TEQ be viable, I would rather not run warbands or inq spam.

Not all GK players are fans of the INQ side of the codex, and with Inq having its own codex, removal of that stuff for better Space Marine related options would be better in my book

yup, I would rather have a only GK codex now that INQ has it's own.

So you want it to be more fluffy and cool at the expense of how good the army actually is? IMO the Inquisition is what makes GKs good. Especially with OS being such a big deal apparently, having the 20+ warp charge dice and 6 OS transports is good. If you want to blow points on Terminators that will get hit by one Riptide IA shot and die, then go ahead, but if they take out inquisition and there is no option to take is as an ally that doesn't count for a slot (talking about how the BAO lets you have one CAD and one other detachment) then I would rather sell all my GKs then play them if they are going to be a small codex comprised of Characters, Draigo (most likely to be a LoW), Paladins, Terminators, no more assassins, no inquisitorial stuff, Dreadnoughts, Dread knights, transports, and purgation squads.

If they change it too much, I don't see how they would be good at all. With GKs getting their own psychic discipline, that must be good, but if they lose too much, that probably can't make up for it. I really want GKs to be great again, not a crazy, but still seen at tournaments more, without it being the Centruion Star. In fact, the only thing that would be good about a GK codex change is the fact that if inquisitors and GKs split, then you lose one GK librarian if you still want to run the Cent Star, it still just mitigates the damage it can do though.

In conclusion, I want GKs to do well and become more viable on the tournament scene, but if they are going to take out what is already making them hang in there, I don't see how they can be changed if they are not going to make new kits.

You seem to be missing the point.

We want to be good, without having to rely on what are arguably now units out of a separate codex. And personally I feel inq spam lists are not "GK lists", but thats just me

You also missed the suggestion of adding more related SM stuff to fill in the Inquisition gaps. As well as a general point decrease all around.

Yknow a full faction codex like Space Wolves of Dark Angels. They're separate fully functional marine factions.

Inquisition has its own codex now, the GK codex should be fleshed out to fill the gaps to make it an actuall GK codes, not the GK/Inq codes

Basically what MajorWes said.

 streetsamurai wrote:
My LGS told me that they received an email from the distributors telling them that theirs is a new boxset coming

hmm, at least we have two rumours corroborating that something is coming, despite them not agreeing.

If this is true, we need to have a special force org. That allows for more elites or something like that. IMO


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The lengthy post going over the specific units and slots. Amazing. With some of those changes I could see it working, along with my suggestion above. Bikes and Centurions as more things that are GK specific would be awesome. Them would I feel like Inquisition could get the boot (a physical copy would be nice too)

My only concern is that GW will not be making new kits for this release, that is what I have heard

I cant believe that. Not for a second. Back in 5th they sold soooo many Grey Knights. They were such a power dex, almost everyone bought someone. The user base (that still plays 40k anyway) with a grey knight army sitting in a closet waiting for some fresh rules and models is probably still huge

Goresaw wrote:
I cant believe that. Not for a second. Back in 5th they sold soooo many Grey Knights. They were such a power dex, almost everyone bought someone. The user base (that still plays 40k anyway) with a grey knight army sitting in a closet waiting for some fresh rules and models is probably still huge

Games Workshop will not be releasing new models on the release of the GKs codex.

Thats the rumor, hasnt been confirmed one way or the other, or that they're even next

All we know thats comming is a GK novel

Goresaw wrote:
I cant believe that. Not for a second. Back in 5th they sold soooo many Grey Knights. They were such a power dex, almost everyone bought someone. The user base (that still plays 40k anyway) with a grey knight army sitting in a closet waiting for some fresh rules and models is probably still huge

This is my belief as well. But on the other hand, GK already have more or less all their units covered with the PA and TEQ kits (unless they create new ones, which is certainly a possibility).

Inquisitors and their henchmen need a lot of work, but those have their own codex now so I'm 99% sure they won't be in GK anymore.

The only kits GK really need are for their HQ's, but even then, a generic Chapter Master/Brother-Captain/Champion can easily be kit bashed from the exiting plastic kits.

I do agree that taking out the inquisition units leaves GK somewhat bare-boned, that's why I'm thinking either the new dex will import some more units from Vanilla Marines, create some more, or if not, the codex might be an online only Codex like the SoB one...

I vote, thunderfire psycannon.

Dual psycannon centuriouns

PSY ALL THE THINGS!

But yea. I'll stop now

They need something for FA at the very least, even if it's just the stormtalon.

Not sure why but imperium jet bikes always comes up when talking about GK fast attack slots

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Not sure why but imperium jet bikes always comes up when talking about GK fast attack slots

*shrugs* probably because they more then likely still use SOME preheresy tech

 TyraelVladinhurst wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Not sure why but imperium jet bikes always comes up when talking about GK fast attack slots

*shrugs* probably because they more then likely still use SOME preheresy tech

If any chapter does, it does make sense they'd be the ones to get the last bit of it

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Agreed. Inq should be their own hardback mini-codex, like Knights.

Spoiler:

HQ:
Draigo (99% move to Lord of War)
Grand Master (Chapter master eq)
Mordrak (could go away for lacking a model, but could also be given a model in a box set or something. Ghost Knights could easily become a conjuration spell for him)
Brother Captain (Captain eq)
Stern (Has a model, not going anywhere)
Brotherhood Champion (Odd bird, meant to duel, needs updated to fit better with current challenge mechanics. Possibly better moved to Elite?)
Crowe (Named champion, regarded as poor, a "tax" to get purifiers as troops. Needs a rethink, esp if Brotherhood champion moves to elites.
Librarian (Librarian eq)

Pretty similar to other SM books. Lacking a command squad/honor guard unit of some sort, but Paladins are basically that but in elites. Also missing a Chaplain, who exists in the fluff, and would fit in well if the champion moves to elites.

Elites:
Techmarine (currently used as a grenade caddy mostly. Maybe fix grenades and give him servitor access? Otherwise fine.)
Purifiers (Veteran troop EQ. 2 specials per 5, extra attack base. Cleansing Flame made them strong.)
Venerable Dreadnought (Probably needs a point drop to match other Ven dreads)
Paladin Squad (Elite Terminators mixed with command squad elements). Could use Dedicated transport options

Removing the Inq stuff hits Elites pretty hard- henchmen and assassins. Moving the Brotherhood Champion to Elites may help, and the likely end of purifiers and paladins as troops means competition will be up. If they do a new Dreadnought kit for GK, a Librarian Dread in Elites would make a lot of sense, as BA started the trend.

Troops:
Terminator Squad (Basic terminators. Could use dedicated transport options)
Justicar Thawn (upgrade character for Terminator squad. Could easily disappear)
GK squad (Basic troops)

Troops will be taken more if Paladins and Purifiers are no longer troop options. Expensive base, but GK are an elite army. It would be nice for troops (and by extension everyone) if Nemesis weapons were a bit more equalized and costed the same for everyone- Make the sword, halberd, and falchions AP3, and have them give +1WS, +1I, and Shred respectively. Keep the hammer as a Thunderhammer Eq for +10 points, and the Warding Stave as a Force Stave +2 Str, AP4, concussive with a +1 to Invul and Deny the witch saves for +15 or +20

Fast Attack:

Stormraven (really a HS plane, only in FA due to lack of other options)
Interceptor Squad (Jump infantry EQ)

Weakest section of the FOC. 2 units, one that should really be in HS. Plenty of room for expansion. GK are high tech, and lack biker equivalents, so a Jetbike unit would be nice, though DA players would cry. Maybe add a flier, possibly the Storm Talon, to deal with flying daemons?

Heavy Support

Purgation Squad (Devastator Eq)
Dreadnought (mainly here to fill out HS, normally an elite slot unit)
Dreadknight (Works well as HS.)
Land Raider + variants (It's a land raider)

Like FA, rather light on options. Another area for possible new kits. Gk specific Centurions could help fill out FA and HS, with assaulty ones with nemesis weapons in FA and shooty ones with Psy-weapons and lascannons for HS. Would probably deserve a specific kit as well, with the proper weapons and engraved plates and such. Maybe give FA centurions the option to buy Teleporters like Interceptors?

Seriously, Wes. Have you considered applying for a position with the design team?

I'll be really pissed off if Thawn goes. I'm doing in a GK Termy squad. Have a temporary pin that can swap between Sword like the rest of the unit and Warding Stave for challenges. And I have a Halberd all done up for Thawn-mode. God damn GW.


I really hope there remains some way to have Paladins as Troops. Otherwise I have no GK army anymore. My only troops are 10 Paladins and this 5 man Termy squad I've not used yet. I can't even proxy the Paladins as Termies because they have an Apothecary and my fluff OCD and those Paladin style heads will not allow.

If there are no minis, there will be no new codex. Model making company and all that. Releasing a new book with no models is leaving money on the table.... or even worse losing money. We all know these ridiculously expensive books are just an excuse to sell you $80 flying bricks for each squad of your armored space vikings.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I vote, thunderfire psycannon.

Dual psycannon centuriouns

PSY ALL THE THINGS!

But yea. I'll stop now

A stormtalon with the stock TLHBs/TLAsC loaded with Psy-ammo would be a scary bird.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I vote, thunderfire psycannon.

Dual psycannon centuriouns

PSY ALL THE THINGS!

But yea. I'll stop now

I'm still holding out for Draigo In a Dreadknight suit. :p

PapaSoul wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I vote, thunderfire psycannon.

Dual psycannon centuriouns

PSY ALL THE THINGS!

But yea. I'll stop now

I'm still holding out for Draigo In a Dreadknight suit. :p

Draigo in a Dreadknight suit... IN AN EMPEROR TITAN!

Could they move the GK story forward a bit so that Draigo has finally escaped the warp and is now the Grand Master of the Grey Knights?

Or even retcon it to be 'boy dun spent 1,000 years in the warp smiting stuff, now he's dun served his time and iz back!'

I think that would be infinitely better than Draigo just magically getting sucked into the material realm. And now he's not just stalking around the warp getting high off warp dust and doing things that shouldn't be possible.

Thinking about things and talking with my FLGS manager, we've come up with a few ideas of what the new GK codex could contain:

1) Purgation squad kit. This is the chance for GWs to release a kit with new weapons that would give the GKs a proper devestator type squad.

2) Draigo may have two stat lines. Draigo as he is now, and draigo as a 'Draigonought.' Ie grey knights have found a way to keep Draigo out of the warp for longer but involves the use of a dreadnought body.

3) Interceptors move to Troops slot. NDK with the personal teleporter becomes a fast attack.

4) Introduction of the SM vehicles 'leaked' in the GK errata.

5) A Librarian dreadnought. Of all the chapters that could have one, the chapter of psychics makes sense.

6) The loss of the INQ component of the codex.

7) Some army wide improved deepstrike ability. Less scatter for example, or army wide modifier to deepstrike reserves roll.

8) -Maybe- Jet bikes. This one is a big maybe in our eyes. We think they'd only add these if interceptors didn't compete for the same slot. Afterall GW wants you to buy this new kit and if it competes with one of the better MEQ GK units, then people may be hesitant to buy them.

chnmmr wrote:
Thinking about things and talking with my FLGS manager, we've come up with a few ideas of what the new GK codex could contain:

1) Purgation squad kit. This is the chance for GWs to release a kit with new weapons that would give the GKs a proper devestator type squad.

2) Draigo may have two stat lines. Draigo as he is now, and draigo as a 'Draigonought.' Ie grey knights have found a way to keep Draigo out of the warp for longer but involves the use of a dreadnought body.

3) Interceptors move to Troops slot. NDK with the personal teleporter becomes a fast attack.

4) Introduction of the SM vehicles 'leaked' in the GK errata.

5) A Librarian dreadnought. Of all the chapters that could have one, the chapter of psychics makes sense.

6) The loss of the INQ component of the codex.

7) Some army wide improved deepstrike ability. Less scatter for example, or army wide modifier to deepstrike reserves roll.

8) -Maybe- Jet bikes. This one is a big maybe in our eyes. We think they'd only add these if interceptors didn't compete for the same slot. Afterall GW wants you to buy this new kit and if it competes with one of the better MEQ GK units, then people may be hesitant to buy them.

9) Chaplain

They are in the novels, why not in the codex?

kaldanesh wrote:
Seriously, Wes. Have you considered applying for a position with the design team?

Are they hiring? I am job searching, and I have ideas for other books as well.

 FinkleLord wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
Thinking about things and talking with my FLGS manager, we've come up with a few ideas of what the new GK codex could contain:

1) Purgation squad kit. This is the chance for GWs to release a kit with new weapons that would give the GKs a proper devestator type squad.

2) Draigo may have two stat lines. Draigo as he is now, and draigo as a 'Draigonought.' Ie grey knights have found a way to keep Draigo out of the warp for longer but involves the use of a dreadnought body.

3) Interceptors move to Troops slot. NDK with the personal teleporter becomes a fast attack.

4) Introduction of the SM vehicles 'leaked' in the GK errata.

5) A Librarian dreadnought. Of all the chapters that could have one, the chapter of psychics makes sense.

6) The loss of the INQ component of the codex.

7) Some army wide improved deepstrike ability. Less scatter for example, or army wide modifier to deepstrike reserves roll.

8) -Maybe- Jet bikes. This one is a big maybe in our eyes. We think they'd only add these if interceptors didn't compete for the same slot. Afterall GW wants you to buy this new kit and if it competes with one of the better MEQ GK units, then people may be hesitant to buy them.

9) Chaplain

They are in the novels, why not in the codex?

1. Possible. They could add one sprue with more heavy weapons and other special stuff to the current GK kit and charge more for it. But it wouldn't really be anything different to the current kit.
2. Draigo just needs an AP2 sword, and will probably move to the LOW slot. I kind of like the fluff that he is trapped in the Warp, Samurai Jack style, but I'd like to see it toyed with a bit- the warp does not interact with time normally, so he has been spat out throughout the past 10K years as a mysterious figure appearing to help the GKs, a great mystery until Draigo realizes that is him and willingly goes to the battle where he is trapped. Less of the burning down the warp though.
3. Unlikely. GK are already very short of FA choices. And if interceptors move to troops, why take normal Strike Squads?
4. I'd rather not see more of the Generic SM vehicles become part of GK. GK specific Centurions, or GK Storm Talons sure, those could easily fit roles the GK need. But battle tanks and artillery, not as much
5. Yes. This. All it would take is letting a Ven Dread buy Mastery Levels.
6. Yes. Inq should be their own book like Knights.
7. Agreed. Something like Descent of Angels and/or Deathwing Assault rules would help a lot. Drop Pods are far superior rule-wise to deep strike as it is.
8. Jet Bikes are popular because they are high-tech, look cool, and the GK are logically the faction to have them still working in numbers. It also would fill the sparse FA slot. They also would serve a separate role from Interceptors- they Bikes are faster and tougher, but would be more expensive and possibly weaker in an assault (maybe not have the bikers armed with nemesis weapons?)
9. Chaplain. Yes. I want a Chaplain in HQ, and bump the Brotherhood Champion to Elite.

I love how after a certain number of pages, speculation becomes the rumor.

Ahh. Dakka.

The Inquisition now has its own 'army' dropdown on the Store which wasn't there before, though all of it can still be found under Grey Knights as well.

Take that as you will.

 Nevelon wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I vote, thunderfire psycannon.

Dual psycannon centuriouns

PSY ALL THE THINGS!

But yea. I'll stop now

A stormtalon with the stock TLHBs/TLAsC loaded with Psy-ammo would be a scary bird.

I bet dollars to dimes that psy-bolt ammo disappears entirely or at the very least is a relic or HQ upgrade. It is easily one of the poorest written rules. They just need to make psilencers actually work and revert psycanons to less shots at further range and they'd be set.

Look at all the most recent books. SW lost 75% of their unique gear. Ever since things have shifted to an armory, gear had been vanishing and being streamlined like crazy. I am terrified at how much I expect to lose when my DE get over hauled.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SarisKhan wrote:

PapaSoul wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
I vote, thunderfire psycannon.

Dual psycannon centuriouns

PSY ALL THE THINGS!

But yea. I'll stop now

I'm still holding out for Draigo In a Dreadknight suit. :p

Draigo in a Dreadknight suit... IN AN EMPEROR TITAN!

Wrong order mate. Everything in the multiverse strives to be inside a Draigo suit

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
I love how after a certain number of pages, speculation becomes the rumor.

Ahh. Dakka.

And wishlisting. The ratio of actual rumours to speculation in these threads is horrible.