Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Desubot**

To be fair things that you want to force are generally from Eldar, Necrons and Chaos (both). and besides Chaos and mirror matches, they wont be able to match the dumb amount of warp charges you make. Its also possible to sit there and bait out charges.

Edit: At best you chuck out 2 WC and have a decent chance of getting it. otherwise shoot some troops :/

**BladeWalker**

Can you make Paladins or Purifiers Troops with Draigo or Crowe any more? Those are my two builds.

**Brutishcard**

ForeverARookie wrote:
So... What do we have left?

LoW:
Draigo, who is a better unit generally speaking with the options for Relics, but does not make Paladins Troops anymore.

HQ:
Librarian (Cheaper = better),
Brother Captain/Grandmaster (OK),
Brother Captain Stern (Still not going to play him)
Crowe (looks better, but he's more expensive so we'll see),
Brotherhood Champion (if he's still there it'll mean Crowe isn't the only non-terminator HQ on the list)

Lost:
Grandmaster Mordrak (Replaced with a 1/6 chance Warlord Trait.
All the Inquisitors (In other words the non-expensive HQ options)

Elite:
Techmarine (Lost the Grenade Jockey options)
Purifiers (Soulblaze on everything? slight consolation to the loss of the Psycannon's functionality)
Dreadnought/Venerable Dreadnought (Lost Psyfleman option)
Paladins (much better)

Lost:
Assassins
Warbands

Troops:
Terminators (much better, but lost Justicar Thawn)
Strike Squad (Lost the Psycanon's functionality)

Fast Attack:
Storm Raven (Better missiles, but lost Psybolt)
Interceptor Squads (Lost the functionality of the Psycannon)

Heavy:
Dreadknights (Appointed chosen of GW to be the new backbone of the Grey Knight Codex)
Purgation Squad (Inferior in every way to the Dreadknights)

Other Changes:
Land Raider varients moved to Dedicated Transport.

Lost:
Psybolt on EVERYTHING. The StormRaven, Land Raider Crusader, Razorback, and Rifleman Dreadnought are hit the most heavily.

Why are paladins loads better? (This sounds sarcy but I promise it's a genuine question!) am feeling a tiny bit better... Not loads... But a little.

**WrentheFaceless**

In my experience, most people dont give force a 2nd thought and try to deny other stuff like blessings.

Speaking of Psilencers, do they still wound daemons on 4s?

**ForeverARookie**

WrentheFaceless wrote:
Not sure about the rest of you, but DTW on force is still farily difficult having to roll 6's for each charge.

Its not as easy as people are making it out to be

If they have any Psykers, they'll have a decent dice pool for denying, whereas if the Dreadknight throws too many dice into Force to prevent the opponent from denying it, he practically guarantees a Perils of the Warp which could kill him. It's not worth the <4% chance of successfully getting an Instant Death vs an enemy. The Heavy Psycannon will just kill them with wounds, and does it better.

**Quickjager**

BladeWalker wrote:
Can you make Paladins or Purifiers Troops with Draigo or Crowe any more? Those are my two builds.

No

**WrentheFaceless**

ForeverARookie wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
Not sure about the rest of you, but DTW on force is still farily difficult having to roll 6's for each charge.

Its not as easy as people are making it out to be

If they have any Psykers, they'll have a decent dice pool for denying, whereas if the Dreadknight throws too many dice into Force to prevent the opponent from denying it, he practically guarantees a Perils of the Warp which could kill him. It's not worth the <4% chance of successfully getting an Instant Death vs an enemy. The Heavy Psycannon will just kill them with wounds, and does it better.

Less than 4% chance? Where are you getting this math from? Activating force is a 50% chance on just one die, it only goes up from there. Whereas your opponent rolling 1 die to deny it is a 17% chance. The odds are in your favor of getting it off

**Auswin**

Draigo got demonstrably better. Hard to see how he's not an auto-take now. +3 strength on the titansword AND hammerhand is turning him into an AP2 combat monster.

Most of the relics are meh. I like the terminator armor, and hopefully it will be costed similarly to the SW artificer.

If ML3 libbies are seriously 135 pts that's ridiculous. I'll double CAD every time for four of them.

I dislike the changes to NFW, but I'll work around it. Still struggling to see how they can operate without allies but we'll see.

**BladeWalker**

Quickjager wrote:
BladeWalker wrote:
Can you make Paladins or Purifiers Troops with Draigo or Crowe any more? Those are my two builds.

No

So to stay within the Codex it's Strikes or Terminators only correct? No FOC manipulation?

**pizzaguardian**

Wait so did dreadnoughts lost psybolt or not?

**Red Corsair**

Desubot wrote:
To be fair things that you want to force are generally from Eldar, Necrons and Chaos (both). and besides Chaos and mirror matches, they wont be able to match the dumb amount of warp charges you make. Its also possible to sit there and bait out charges.

Edit: At best you chuck out 2 WC and have a decent chance of getting it. otherwise shoot some troops :/

With the loss of henchmen and psychic pilot GK are going to have a LOT less WC's. Vs Eldar you can't even wound a wraith knight with s4 so again, use your dice all day on that trash. Against chaos you can gib some spawn, I'll give you that, but screwing chaos was never hard. Necrons? CCB's don't care, literally and that's a problem for the NDK. Wraiths should be scared though, but if I am a cron player staring down multiple NDK with gatling Psi.... I'd be stupid not to reserve my wraiths until my CCB's cornered those things.

**Quickjager**

BladeWalker wrote:
Quickjager wrote:
BladeWalker wrote:
Can you make Paladins or Purifiers Troops with Draigo or Crowe any more? Those are my two builds.

No

So to stay within the Codex it's Strikes or Terminators only correct? No FOC manipulation?

Thats correct, because everything is scoring in 7th GW decided that FOC manipulation wasn't necessary.

**Redemption**

BladeWalker wrote:
Quickjager wrote:
BladeWalker wrote:
Can you make Paladins or Purifiers Troops with Draigo or Crowe any more? Those are my two builds.

No

So to stay within the Codex it's Strikes or Terminators only correct? No FOC manipulation?

Yes, but if you take the GK detachment, you only need 1 HQ and 1 Troops choice and can have up to 4 Elites.

**Paradigm**

Hooray, I now have NO troops choices, having run a Purifier/Paladin list. Never mind, I'll just stick with the old book.

**Red Corsair**

ForeverARookie wrote:
WrentheFaceless wrote:
Not sure about the rest of you, but DTW on force is still farily difficult having to roll 6's for each charge.

Its not as easy as people are making it out to be

If they have any Psykers, they'll have a decent dice pool for denying, whereas if the Dreadknight throws too many dice into Force to prevent the opponent from denying it, he practically guarantees a Perils of the Warp which could kill him. It's not worth the <4% chance of successfully getting an Instant Death vs an enemy. The Heavy Psycannon will just kill them with wounds, and does it better.

^This

Also I am still not seeing where all these power dice are coming from. All the cheap sources were lost lol. You will ironically have WAY less then demons who get to 20+ without trying very hard.

**pretre**

Anyone have an actual quote for Psychic Pilot being removed? People keep saying it, but I haven't seen it.

**BladeWalker**

Cool, thanks for replies. Have not bought 7th yet and barely played 6th. Hoping my Red Hunters (BA Codex) will get an update soon too. Looking at a set of Strikes to go with my dual Stormraven lists, stoked that Draigo can finally do some quality chopping.

I'm assuming I can still Combat Squad my Purifiers to make them a shooty squad and a stabby squad? All the more important now that the Psycannon is Salvo.

**Red Corsair**

Auswin wrote:
Draigo got demonstrably better. Hard to see how he's not an auto-take now. +3 strength on the titansword AND hammerhand is turning him into an AP2 combat monster.

Most of the relics are meh. I like the terminator armor, and hopefully it will be costed similarly to the SW artificer.

If ML3 libbies are seriously 135 pts that's ridiculous. I'll double CAD every time for four of them.

I dislike the changes to NFW, but I'll work around it. Still struggling to see how they can operate without allies but we'll see.

Yea but that's all he does lol. 245 for a guy who steals your power dice to get unnecessarily stronger and still is on foot and geared only for combat. Anything he can kill that justifys his cost can just walk away.

**Hulksmash**

If you want power dice you hit 10-12 fairly easy. 6 is only 270pts on two level 3 libbies. Even assuming 1 per 200pts there after you're still looking at 14 power dice (more if you combat squad). Seems like above everyone except Eldar & Daemons. Seems appropriate to me. Also GK powers aren't like Daemon powers. Our highest cost is WC2 with most being 1. Unlike Daemons who have a plethora of WC3.

**Quickjager**

pretre wrote:
Anyone have an actual quote for Psychic Pilot being removed? People keep saying it, but I haven't seen it.

Its called reading the goddamn source.

Dreadnoughts still have the rule, everything else lost it. Just click on Brovius's post history on the source link; no its not a over reaction.

EDIT: Lascannon option on razorback got cheaper by 15 points.

**Jidmah**

Quickjager wrote:
Draigo can't take relics, he is a IC
Crowe is an IC but is more expensive, also he has had a odd rule change... He doesn't rend anymore, but in challenges he smashes (like a MC)

Smash also makes all his close combat attacks AP2, which pretty much means that you get to pick a character that doesn't fight when he is in combat.

**Desubot**

Red Corsair wrote:
Desubot wrote:
To be fair things that you want to force are generally from Eldar, Necrons and Chaos (both). and besides Chaos and mirror matches, they wont be able to match the dumb amount of warp charges you make. Its also possible to sit there and bait out charges.

Edit: At best you chuck out 2 WC and have a decent chance of getting it. otherwise shoot some troops :/

With the loss of henchmen and psychic pilot GK are going to have a LOT less WC's. Vs Eldar you can't even wound a wraith knight with s4 so again, use your dice all day on that trash. Against chaos you can gib some spawn, I'll give you that, but screwing chaos was never hard. Necrons? CCB's don't care, literally and that's a problem for the NDK. Wraiths should be scared though, but if I am a cron player staring down multiple NDK with gatling Psi.... I'd be stupid not to reserve my wraiths until my CCB's cornered those things.

Yeah was referring to Wraiths, Spawns and possibly princes. forgot s4 to T8 :/ which almost everyone uses, as well gets through FNP which is another bonus.

its also great if the whole 4+ to wound thing is still there against Daemons.

**pretre**

Quickjager wrote:
pretre wrote:
Anyone have an actual quote for Psychic Pilot being removed? People keep saying it, but I haven't seen it.

Its called reading the goddamn source.

Dreadnoughts still have the rule, everything else lost it. Just click on Brovius's post history on the source link; no its not a over reaction.

EDIT: Lascannon option on razorback got cheaper by 15 points.

Chill. Take a sip of a frosty beverage.

Most of us don't hang out on B&C, so rather than flipping the frak out, just post that crud over here:

"I swear every time I try to leave the PC I refresh the page and feel compelled to answer another question tongue.png

Doomfists are no more, that goes for both the NDK and the Dread. Dreads are still psychic pilots, but everything else is just a normal vehicle (and received the appropriate price change). The Dread still has Sanctuary and Banishment.The higher price from C:SM is likely to accomodate the Aegis and Psychic Pilot (Reinforced Aegis is gone, not that it really did much after the FAQ).

EDIT: Homers are available for all Justicars, Paladins, and HQs that aren't BHCs or Crowe. Teleport Homer is limited to TDA and PT-armed models though. Strikes can't benefit from the homer for some odd reason."

**mjl7atlas**

I'm probably alone here, but I am really pissed at the loss of Mordrak. Was currently in the processes of making a custom Mordrak and ghost knights. Yes, i am aware I can still use them as GKT and a a regular HQ, but what was the purpose of removing him and Thawn. Might thumb through the codex, but I cant seem to justify that price for a codex that nerfs the army I have been playing for over a decade and in the words of a contributor that i can't think of at the moment on this forum "it's almost as if GW WANTS us to pirate their products".

**Red Corsair**

Hulksmash wrote:
If you want power dice you hit 10-12 fairly easy. 6 is only 270pts on two level 3 libbies. Even assuming 1 per 200pts there after you're still looking at 14 power dice (more if you combat squad). Seems like above everyone except Eldar & Daemons. Seems appropriate to me. Also GK powers aren't like Daemon powers. Our highest cost is WC2 with most being 1. Unlike Daemons who have a plethora of WC3.

Right, but it does limit some builds that currently are floating around, namely the centstar. This is a good thing IMO.

I still think sinking 3 dice or 25% of your pool on force is plenty fine by me. Most things worth forcing to death again are hard to hit, or getting a great save in the case of bugs from cover. I'd stick with heavy PC and incinerators on the NDK.

I do think regular psilencers are nice on strike though. just look at it as a guy with 2 extra storm bolters. It makes the units total shots increase very efficiently on small scoring units. Though honestly an incinerator is probably best for killing cheap enemy Obsec units.

**Elmir**

Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?

Or are his fists still force activated too?

**Red Corsair**

Elmir wrote:
Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?

Or are his fists still force activated too?

Wow good call. I wonder if the Nemdoomfists becoming powerfists means you need to buy the sword or hammer for Force. It honestly would make more sense.

**Scolas**

from Brovius on B&C (post #239)

PTs still shunt, and shunt is unchanged.

**Ferrum_Sanguinis**

Red Corsair wrote:
Elmir wrote:
Just a quick question: Will a DK have to upgrade to hammer to gain acces to both concussive AND force on his weapons now?

Or are his fists still force activated too?

Wow good call. I wonder if the Nemdoomfists becoming powerfists means you need to buy the sword or hammer for Force. It honestly would make more sense.

It is, guy on B&CS confirmed it. Sword and Hammer for NDK are force, so they're still auto take if you want your NDK to one shot other MCs.

**Red Corsair**

Scolas wrote:
from Brovius on B&C (post #239)

PTs still shunt, and shunt is unchanged.

OK thanks! Well that is good news, always loved that ability.