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Yay. My Tau love 1st turn deep strikers who sit out in the open for me to plasma to death after my intercepting missile-sides and riptides are through of course. /snark

 agnosto wrote:
Yay. My Tau love 1st turn deep strikers who sit out in the open for me to plasma to death after my intercepting missile-sides and riptides are through of course. /snark

But you can run, so you can just spread out from the worst of the intercep.... ohrightnevermind.

 agnosto wrote:
Yay. My Tau love 1st turn deep strikers who sit out in the open for me to plasma to death after my intercepting missile-sides and riptides are through of course. /snark

Well besides Tau lol, the GK deep striking option could be good against some other armies.

What is the bare minimum one needs to take in that special GK formation? I missed that tid bit.

Also, I am assuming any beacons it whatever on allied drop pods wouldn't help the first turn GK deep strikers as they wouldn't be there at the start of the turn? But any beacons or homers or whatever deployed before the first turn would?

 agnosto wrote:
Yay. My Tau love 1st turn deep strikers who sit out in the open for me to plasma to death after my intercepting missile-sides and riptides are through of course. /snark

The GK army would be thrown at one of your flanks to bring it down on turn 1.
At least this should be the plan.

Still getting the book and the cards

 wuestenfux wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Yay. My Tau love 1st turn deep strikers who sit out in the open for me to plasma to death after my intercepting missile-sides and riptides are through of course. /snark

The GK army would be thrown at one of your flanks to bring it down on turn 1.
At least this should be the plan.

Your opponent would have to be pretty inexperienced to place their army in such a way as this would ever be an effective strategy. The problem is that you can't choose which unit comes down, you're rolling a 3+ for each unit in the formation and if you roll badly....

So, Grey Knights have become 5th edition daemons now?

 daedalus wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Yay. My Tau love 1st turn deep strikers who sit out in the open for me to plasma to death after my intercepting missile-sides and riptides are through of course. /snark

But you can run, so you can just spread out from the worst of the intercep.... ohrightnevermind.

You run in your shooting phase so interceptor and big ap2 plates will hit you first

 agnosto wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Yay. My Tau love 1st turn deep strikers who sit out in the open for me to plasma to death after my intercepting missile-sides and riptides are through of course. /snark

The GK army would be thrown at one of your flanks to bring it down on turn 1.
At least this should be the plan.

Your opponent would have to be pretty inexperienced to place their army in such a way as this would ever be an effective strategy. The problem is that you can't choose which unit comes down, you're rolling a 3+ for each unit in the formation and if you roll badly....

Nothing is save.
However, I'd give it a try every day. The GK army needs to get at arm's range to do damage.

 agnosto wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Yay. My Tau love 1st turn deep strikers who sit out in the open for me to plasma to death after my intercepting missile-sides and riptides are through of course. /snark

The GK army would be thrown at one of your flanks to bring it down on turn 1.
At least this should be the plan.

Your opponent would have to be pretty inexperienced to place their army in such a way as this would ever be an effective strategy. The problem is that you can't choose which unit comes down, you're rolling a 3+ for each unit in the formation and if you roll badly....

As people have said GK player could have com relay. On the other hand the other player could have warlord trait to give you -1 on reserve roll, -1 from AM command squad and so on. Myself i would not like to be dependent on making a 3+ reserve roll for all my units in turn 1. Risky for arriving just some units, and enemy being abel to pick you apart. I fail to see that the detachment special rules are very good.

Diablix wrote:

1) No new units: ok, I understand and agree on that. Frankly I don't feel like the Imperium is lacking choices, though. And it seems to me that GK alone already have any kind of toy bar drop pods.
2) Removed units: most of them were Inquisition units, that are pretty much available as a dataslate / allies. And don't tell me you have to buy another book, they are pretty much the same as before, you can live without the new book.

1) Agreed: You can always ally with SW and use their empties.
2) Agreed: They are still there, you just have to use allies. Monkey boys and =I= still hanging out for the taking.

Tyfus wrote:
As people have said GK player could have com relay. On the other hand the other player could have warlord trait to give you -1 on reserve roll, -1 from AM command squad and so on. Myself i would not like to be dependent on making a 3+ reserve roll for all my units in turn 1. Risky for arriving just some units, and enemy being abel to pick you apart. I fail to see that the detachment special rules are very good.

Yes, but that is something you should know before deployment giving you a chance to adjust your strategy.

Diablix wrote:
Frankly it looks to me that too many people were used to be overpowered here, got "nerfed" during 6th and 7th and for some strange reason really expected they deserved to obtain again their overpowered status.

We're talking about a codex that can spam +1Invuln "12 bubbles, which means 4++ DK, 4++ "naked" termies, 6++ LRs or 2++ Draigo. A codex that can place on the board a lot of Str 7 Rending shots, all on pretty durable units. A codex that will generate 20+ warp charge without effort or extra cost. Come on, you don't even know what is to play with a codex that really sucks.

Yeah, it's true, a TAC squad costs you an arm and a leg and dies almost as quickly as any other PA marine. But you have storm bolter and force swords... you cannot just expect them to cost 15 points each, it would be utterly insane. Maybe they could leave you the option to have the default CCW, but then they would just be standard marines...

Maybe cheaper troops, with less uber weapons and more WS/BS5 across the board to represent their "elite" status would be more competitive, but I like this way better.

Only playtesting will tell, but I feel this is a solid codex, which falls in line with Orks, SW and Imperial Guard.. they 4 are balanced pretty well, both internally and externally, at least for GW standards.

And I don't agree with those who say that Orks and SW are boring or mono-build, even if they have their flaws (Orks being too much shooty, as an example).

I feel they are improving in the general balance, honestly. If all 7th edition codex will be like this would be much better than 6th edition, with Eldar, Daemons, Tau and... nothing else.

20+ Warpcharges? Only 3000+ point games or Henchmen nonsence will get you 20+ Warpcharges. I've built a lot of lists and pure Grey Knights (the 5th edition Codex) average to 1 Warp Charge point for each 150 points fielded.

Our Strike Squads dieing "almost as quickly", try exactly as quickly. They are T4 with a 3+ save, exactly like Vanilla Marines, and none of our special rules change that. Storm Bolter? +1 shot for each model for the smallest army in the entire game. Even with the Storm Bolters we're so outgunned we might as well be throwing rocks and sticks.

Asking for a fair chance is not the same as wanting to be OP. What happened to us was the equivalent of a shooting competition where one guy can do some sweet trick shots, and the other contestants are jealous, so to "ballance" the competition, they cut off his trigger finger. So now he is struggling to even get to the trigger with one of his other fingers.

We lost Inquisitors (Our only cheap HQ options), Henchmen (the only really game breaking thing the army had), Assassins (a unique flavor we once had and now have to pay $20 to get back), Grandmaster Mordrak (1st turn Deepstrike without scatter), Thawn (a renewable Objective Secured character), Psybolts on Infantry (+1 Strength on Storm Bolters made us on par with the shooting of other armies up to 24"), Psybolts on Vehicles (Notably under priced, but again, they gave the LRC and Stormraven some umph to make opponents care that they were being shot at), Storm Raven's Lascannon & Multi-melta options (Why take those away? It's only reasonable chance to take down fliers are the missiles), Psychic Pilot on all transports (Fewer Warp charges, and Vehicles can't give themselves a save anymore), the usability of Psycannons on any non-relentless model.

What did we get new? Soulblaze on Flamers and Purifier CC attacks, some lowered point costs, Brotherhood Champion being made fieldable again, the Heavy Psycannon got a dual profile, the Gatling Psilencer got Force (bring it's usefullness up to roughly 7%), changed profiles on Nemesis Force Weapons, and a ne FOC, which allows units to Deepstrike on turn 1 on a 3+, but denies the entire Detachment Objective Secured, Teleport Homers available for everyone (but too bad they'll usually be WORTHLESS, as that first wave of teleporting units will have full scatter and could possibly be all of hem).

Welcome to Codex: Dreadknight (+ a friendly Librarian with a Terminator Entourage).

Am I wrong here,

From my understanding of the leaked codex you can take a 5 man terminator squad 165pts
-give one terminator with a psycannon 20pts
-give the Justicar a psycannon as Justicars can now bring a special weapon 20pts
-give them all halberds 10pts
-total of 215 pts.

As long as you keep a battle-forged list you can re-roll deep strike on turn one for all reserved units which would be an alpha strike of 8 s7 rending shots.

Next turn if they all survive and charge its 15 s7 ap3 attacks, that could take on an armor 13 furioso dread. For 10 points swap out a halberd for a hammer and get a few s10 ap2 hits in.

I'm reading some serious alpha strike board control here.

Throw in the inquisitorial codex to get an inquisitor in Terminator Armor Prescience and 3 servo skulls for 119pts = 3 more wounds D6 less scatter and twin linked.

The_Satin_One wrote:
Am I wrong here,

From my understanding of the leaked codex you can take a 5 man terminator squad 165pts
-give one terminator with a psycannon 20pts
-give the Justicar a psycannon as Justicars can now bring a special weapon 20pts
-give them all halberds 10pts
-total of 215 pts.

As long as you keep a battle-forged list you can re-roll deep strike on turn one for all reserved units which would be an alpha strike of 8 s7 rending shots.

Next turn if they all survive and charge its 15 s7 ap3 attacks, that could take on an armor 13 furioso dread. For 10 points swap out a halberd for a hammer and get a few s10 ap2 hits in.

I'm reading some serious alpha strike board control here.

Throw in the inquisitorial codex to get an inquisitor in Terminator Armor Prescience and 3 servo skulls for 119pts = 3 more wounds D6 less scatter an twin linked.

Justicar can't take a psycannon, give him (or someone else) a hammer instead. Also, with Hammerheand now always being s+2 I don't really think you need halberds on termies. Swords will do just fine, saving you even more points.

ForeverARookie wrote:


Even with the Storm Bolters we're so outgunned we might as well be throwing rocks and sticks.

We lost Inquisitors (Our only cheap HQ options), Henchmen (the only really game breaking thing the army had), Assassins (a unique flavor we once had and now have to pay $20 to get back), Grandmaster Mordrak (1st turn Deepstrike without scatter), Thawn (a renewable Objective Secured character), Psybolts on Infantry (+1 Strength on Storm Bolters made us on par with the shooting of other armies up to 24"), Psybolts on Vehicles (Notably under priced, but again, they gave the LRC and Stormraven some umph to make opponents care that they were being shot at), Storm Raven's Lascannon & Multi-melta options (Why take those away? It's only reasonable chance to take down fliers are the missiles), Psychic Pilot on all transports (Fewer Warp charges, and Vehicles can't give themselves a save anymore), the usability of Psycannons on any non-relentless model.

Welcome to Codex: Dreadknight (+ a friendly Librarian with a Terminator Entourage).

1) Storm Bolters are much better than rocks and sticks.

2) You didn't "lose" them - they are their own dataslate - which still has PSYBOLT AMMO

3) What GK army wasn't already taking 3 Dreadknights?

Kangodo wrote:

 pretre wrote:
What rule 4?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/456972.page
That rule 4.

And can we knock on your door when GW-legal decided to shut down this forum?
So please, remove those. A link to the /tg/ would be enough, despite not being fully allowed.

It's a link. Suck it up. If the mods don't approve, they'll remove them.

Your right, miss-read the special issue wargear to be special weapons. Wishful thinking on my part.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

The_Satin_One wrote:
Am I wrong here,

From my understanding of the leaked codex you can take a 5 man terminator squad 165pts
-give one terminator with a psycannon 20pts
-give the Justicar a psycannon as Justicars can now bring a special weapon 20pts
-give them all halberds 10pts
-total of 215 pts.

As long as you keep a battle-forged list you can re-roll deep strike on turn one for all reserved units which would be an alpha strike of 8 s7 rending shots.

Next turn if they all survive and charge its 15 s7 ap3 attacks, that could take on an armor 13 furioso dread. For 10 points swap out a halberd for a hammer and get a few s10 ap2 hits in.

I'm reading some serious alpha strike board control here.

Throw in the inquisitorial codex to get an inquisitor in Terminator Armor Prescience and 3 servo skulls for 119pts = 3 more wounds D6 less scatter an twin linked.

Justicar can't take a psycannon, give him (or someone else) a hammer instead. Also, with Hammerheand now always being s+2 I don't really think you need halberds on termies. Swords will do just fine, saving you even more points.

I'd take the Halberds just so I don't have to bother with Hammerhand and stuff all the warp dice at making sure I get off Force.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

ForeverARookie wrote:


Even with the Storm Bolters we're so outgunned we might as well be throwing rocks and sticks.

We lost Inquisitors (Our only cheap HQ options), Henchmen (the only really game breaking thing the army had), Assassins (a unique flavor we once had and now have to pay $20 to get back), Grandmaster Mordrak (1st turn Deepstrike without scatter), Thawn (a renewable Objective Secured character), Psybolts on Infantry (+1 Strength on Storm Bolters made us on par with the shooting of other armies up to 24"), Psybolts on Vehicles (Notably under priced, but again, they gave the LRC and Stormraven some umph to make opponents care that they were being shot at), Storm Raven's Lascannon & Multi-melta options (Why take those away? It's only reasonable chance to take down fliers are the missiles), Psychic Pilot on all transports (Fewer Warp charges, and Vehicles can't give themselves a save anymore), the usability of Psycannons on any non-relentless model.

Welcome to Codex: Dreadknight (+ a friendly Librarian with a Terminator Entourage).

1) Storm Bolters are much better than rocks and sticks.

2) You didn't "lose" them - they are their own dataslate - which still has PSYBOLT AMMO

3) What GK army wasn't already taking 3 Dreadknights?

Dont bother, the hyperbole is strong with him

It's utterly dumbfounding at this point to see indivuals shelling out $50 for a book of recycled fluff and cut nearly in half in value, even more when all the rules are leaked, and pay $8 for the tiniest pack of cards to boot. You're actively being ripped off. There's no hyperbole, no judgment, just the straight fact. Whether the army is good or bad, you're getting the equivalent to errata in any other game for $50. This is why GW hasn't folded terribly yet.

What would it take for folks to wisen up and stop paying so that we might get good releases? I can literally own all the rules for Warmahordes for $60. All the rules. For life. With free updates. You're paying $50 to lose half the army. I just cannot comprehend this and it saddens me. I hope that someday folks will find other games they like and realize their game dollars can go much farther and still have a great time with friends. And that the subk cost fallacy is just that, a fallacy before the "I've invested so much money and time in my army" argument comes up. I can point to my own in this situation and still say "no."

Welp wouldnt be a new codex thread without Kbob calling us idiots or fools and what not for not agreeing with him.

Then plugging Warmahordes

 pretre wrote:

Kangodo wrote:

 pretre wrote:
What rule 4?

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/456972.page
That rule 4.

And can we knock on your door when GW-legal decided to shut down this forum?
So please, remove those. A link to the /tg/ would be enough, despite not being fully allowed.

It's a link. Suck it up. If the mods don't approve, they'll remove them.

And here's a link to a gallery of what I posted previously:

http://postimg.org/gallery/318cv8mwa/ac1687f6/


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Welp wouldnt be a new codex thread without Kbob calling us idiots or fools and what not for not agreeing with him.

Then plugging Warmahordes

There's a button so you don't have to deal with that anymore.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

ForeverARookie wrote:


Even with the Storm Bolters we're so outgunned we might as well be throwing rocks and sticks.

We lost Inquisitors (Our only cheap HQ options), Henchmen (the only really game breaking thing the army had), Assassins (a unique flavor we once had and now have to pay $20 to get back), Grandmaster Mordrak (1st turn Deepstrike without scatter), Thawn (a renewable Objective Secured character), Psybolts on Infantry (+1 Strength on Storm Bolters made us on par with the shooting of other armies up to 24"), Psybolts on Vehicles (Notably under priced, but again, they gave the LRC and Stormraven some umph to make opponents care that they were being shot at), Storm Raven's Lascannon & Multi-melta options (Why take those away? It's only reasonable chance to take down fliers are the missiles), Psychic Pilot on all transports (Fewer Warp charges, and Vehicles can't give themselves a save anymore), the usability of Psycannons on any non-relentless model.

Welcome to Codex: Dreadknight (+ a friendly Librarian with a Terminator Entourage).

1) Storm Bolters are much better than rocks and sticks.

2) You didn't "lose" them - they are their own dataslate - which still has PSYBOLT AMMO

3) What GK army wasn't already taking 3 Dreadknights?

Dont bother, the hyperbole is strong with him

I don't want to have to pay an extra $25 just to field my Inquisitors. I don't want to have to pay an extra $20 to field my Assassins. If all the units had been just left in the Grey Knight Codex, players of other factions for about $50, could have their choice of Assassins, Inquisition, and Grey Knights. Instead, if they want the Assassins and Inquisition, they still pay that much, but don't have the rules for the Grey Knights. Everyone loses.

I wasn't fielding tripple Dreadknights because I used a Purifier list with Terminators in Land Raiders taking the Flanks. Now that Psycannons have a worthless range on Power Armoured units (12" when moving), I have over 20 models I have to convert or sub as Incinerators.

This isn't just Hyperbole. Grey Knights got gimped when they weren't even a powerhouse this edition to begin with.

 TheKbob wrote:
It's utterly dumbfounding at this point to see indivuals shelling out $50 for a book of recycled fluff and cut nearly in half in value, even more when all the rules are leaked, and pay $8 for the tiniest pack of cards to boot. You're actively being ripped off. There's no hyperbole, no judgment, just the straight fact. Whether the army is good or bad, you're getting the equivalent to errata in any other game for $50. This is why GW hasn't folded terribly yet.

What would it take for folks to wisen up and stop paying so that we might get good releases? I can literally own all the rules for Warmahordes for $60. All the rules. For life. With free updates. You're paying $50 to lose half the army. I just cannot comprehend this and it saddens me. I hope that someday folks will find other games they like and realize their game dollars can go much farther and still have a great time with friends. And that the subk cost fallacy is just that, a fallacy before the "I've invested so much money and time in my army" argument comes up. I can point to my own in this situation and still say "no."

Yup. $50 to lose half the army and for some little changes here and there with what's left. It amazes me how so many people can be cool with this. The 'solution' which is to spend around 100 bucks to mostly get the stuff back should infuriate people. All people. But some are somehow ok with it. The immoral and unethical 'solution' of pirating the rules is starting to sound good.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Welp wouldnt be a new codex thread without Kbob calling us idiots or fools and what not for not agreeing with him.

Then plugging Warmahordes

I'm asking why are you doing something entirely illogical and happy to do so. There's no sugar coating this release. Nothing new at all. And happy to pay for it?

Warmachine is an apple to apples comparison. Infinity is free, Malifaux is $15 for the rules. I can't think of a single game I can't point to that has a much higher value.

This release should make you mad as its measurably worse in value without a discussion of the rules within. You're getting less rules and nothing new for more money. Period. What you are getting is the equivalent to errata on other games. Period. If you want to claim you're being irrational and just throwing money away then do so, but don't claim its anything else. And I, for one, don't understand it.

 pretre wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Welp wouldnt be a new codex thread without Kbob calling us idiots or fools and what not for not agreeing with him.

Then plugging Warmahordes

There's a button so you don't have to deal with that anymore.

Yea I know, sometimes I cant help myself clicking "Show post"

 pretre wrote:


There's a button so you don't have to deal with that anymore.

Yep, there's a button to ignore someone, but it doesn't make facts go away. The game company is hurting AMD we have the facts to prove it. This release is a mess from any rational viewpoint of value. So yea, keep ignoring everyone that has a "negative" view. You find yourself alone soon enough in your echo chamber.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Welp wouldnt be a new codex thread without Kbob calling us idiots or fools and what not for not agreeing with him.

Then plugging Warmahordes

There's a button so you don't have to deal with that anymore.

Yea I know, sometimes I cant help myself clicking "Show post"

I totally feel you there.

 TheKbob wrote:

 pretre wrote:


There's a button so you don't have to deal with that anymore.

Yep, there's a button to ignore someone, but it doesn't make facts go away. The game company is hurting AMD we have the facts to prove it. This release is a mess from any rational viewpoint of value. So yea, keep ignoring everyone that has a "negative" view. You find yourself alone soon enough in your echo chamber.

If things are so bad why are you still dealing with 40k.
I have not seen you like anything.