Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2014/08/20 16:56:50
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Allies (though I hate them)
Cerastus Lancer (bought it because I like to build big stompies).
Knight Paladin
Knight whatever
Light on air defense but if the table's empty they lose when the flier leaves.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2014/08/20 17:04:30
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Quickjager wrote: And how is relentless related to Tau? Salvo and heavy weapons can't fire on the turn they deepstrike.
\
Is this a new rule in 7th or something? Why can't Relentless infantry fire Salvo and Heavy weapons when Deep Striking?
They can, he's wrong.
No I am not I said in the pist PAGK who most CERTAINLY do not have relentless.
They can still fire 2 salvo shots at 12 inches, or snapfire heavy weapons.
Stop it with your logic! Haven't you heard man, Grey Knights are now the weakest weaksauce of weaksaucey codices in the history of GW weaky-weaksauceness!
2014/08/20 17:09:42
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Shandara wrote: Even Sisters will rise up and defeat their GK overlords now!
Sisters have always been good against GK. Sisters are great against elite, expensive armies.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
2014/08/20 17:14:40
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Quickjager wrote: And how is relentless related to Tau? Salvo and heavy weapons can't fire on the turn they deepstrike.
\
Is this a new rule in 7th or something? Why can't Relentless infantry fire Salvo and Heavy weapons when Deep Striking?
They can, he's wrong.
No I am not I said in the pist PAGK who most CERTAINLY do not have relentless.
They can still fire 2 salvo shots at 12 inches, or snapfire heavy weapons.
Stop it with your logic! Haven't you heard man, Grey Knights are now the weakest weaksauce of weaksaucey codices in the history of GW weaky-weaksauceness!
Unhelpful straw man argument that at best will do nothing positive, at worst will bring down the level of discourse further.
2014/08/20 17:17:10
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
DDaley60 wrote: Kbob does have a point. The only benefit i can see this release has to people is that you dont have to buy anything new except the codex in some cases, and im talking about GK players as i dont know why anyone would want to start this army now. Just changing most if not all models you own now... Though its still early and time will tell and we have yet to see how GW will treat other new 7th releases
Cheap, easy to paint, effective low model count army that integrates well with other imperial factions. Why not pick it up if you are looking for a good guy elite army?
I have never commented on whether the book is good or not, simply that its less rules at a higher price and leaves people with invalid armies. Other games, when releasing new content, gives you new toys that make you want to try something new but doesn't invalidate your strategies. As an example (moan if you want), with Exogence I get a new caster for my Wolds. It doesn't delete or change how Baldur runs Wolds,it just gives me a new option. I can still be competitive and enjoyy current army and require zero change in strategy. Tactics will change as you fight new casters, but strategy and tactics are two separate things; strategy is the list, tactics is on the table.
With each recent version of GW releases, it either invalidates your strategy or removes it entirely. And we all know unbound is a joke and a lazy excuse. This is the problem with the GK release. It deletes or invalidates strategies and the changes existing units to get you to buy new stuff. Other games do not fiddle with old models to get you to shelve them or buy new, this is a bad thing GW does.
And again, don't like my opinion backed by facts, then hit "ignore." Just don't be childish about it and don't complain when GW implodes by killing their game line for all but the most irrationally loyal. A book that deletes 9+ entries and costs 50% more is the definition of both price hike and loss of value. They could have easily kept those units in at $50, introduced new models, and still maintained codex inquisition and release the assassin supplmenet. You know, a business move that sells more rules to people who don't want the $50 GK book while not screwing over previous players.
But that's just stupid hater speech, right guys?/s
Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb
2014/08/20 17:19:44
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Unhelpful straw man argument that at best will do nothing positive, at worst will bring down the level of discourse further.
Seriously. It's objectively a bad codex. Not useless, but it's not good. There's no real way to spin this release as a positive if you're a GK player.
Yes tactics and lists will change, but there's no amount of list doctoring that will allow the best GK list to compete against a well played list from a solid codex. I still hold fast that we'll see them as really great allies, or having things allied into them but they don't stand as well on their own as the previous codex.
It's just disappointing, but these things happen.
40k
8,500
6,000
5,000
4,000
WFB
Skaven 6,500
2014/08/20 17:24:48
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
TheKbob wrote: I have never commented on whether the book is good or not, simply that its less rules at a higher price and leaves people with invalid armies. Other games, when releasing new content, gives you new toys that make you want to try something new but doesn't invalidate your strategies. As an example (moan if you want), with Exogence I get a new caster for my Wolds. It doesn't delete or change how Baldur runs Wolds,it just gives me a new option. I can still be competitive and enjoyy current army and require zero change in strategy. Tactics will change as you fight new casters, but strategy and tactics are two separate things; strategy is the list, tactics is on the table.
With each recent version of GW releases, it either invalidates your strategy or removes it entirely. And we all know unbound is a joke and a lazy excuse. This is the problem with the GK release. It deletes or invalidates strategies and the changes existing units to get you to buy new stuff. Other games do not fiddle with old models to get you to shelve them or buy new, this is a bad thing GW does.
And again, don't like my opinion backed by facts, then hit "ignore." Just don't be childish about it and don't complain when GW implodes by killing their game line for all but the most irrationally loyal. A book that deletes 9+ entries and costs 50% more is the definition of both price hike and loss of value. They could have easily kept those units in at $50, introduced new models, and still maintained codex inquisition and release the assassin supplmenet. You know, a business move that sells more rules to people who don't want the $50 GK book while not screwing over previous players.
But that's just stupid hater speech, right guys?/s
So what I am getting, the problems is we have to change our tactics and abandon the old ones and we cant take Inquisition Forces anymore?
Well a lot of us were running "Pure" Grey Knight Armies and like it when the "Meta" is changed up.
TheKbob wrote: I have never commented on whether the book is good or not, simply that its less rules at a higher price and leaves people with invalid armies. Other games, when releasing new content, gives you new toys that make you want to try something new but doesn't invalidate your strategies. As an example (moan if you want), with Exogence I get a new caster for my Wolds. It doesn't delete or change how Baldur runs Wolds,it just gives me a new option. I can still be competitive and enjoyy current army and require zero change in strategy. Tactics will change as you fight new casters, but strategy and tactics are two separate things; strategy is the list, tactics is on the table.
With each recent version of GW releases, it either invalidates your strategy or removes it entirely. And we all know unbound is a joke and a lazy excuse. This is the problem with the GK release. It deletes or invalidates strategies and the changes existing units to get you to buy new stuff. Other games do not fiddle with old models to get you to shelve them or buy new, this is a bad thing GW does.
And again, don't like my opinion backed by facts, then hit "ignore." Just don't be childish about it and don't complain when GW implodes by killing their game line for all but the most irrationally loyal. A book that deletes 9+ entries and costs 50% more is the definition of both price hike and loss of value. They could have easily kept those units in at $50, introduced new models, and still maintained codex inquisition and release the assassin supplmenet. You know, a business move that sells more rules to people who don't want the $50 GK book while not screwing over previous players.
But that's just stupid hater speech, right guys?/s
The big problem as I see it isn't so much that characters are disappearing and things are changing as much as there's this promotion of the 40k arms race happening with no signs of it slowing. Instead of putting out several kits of new models and rules they're making previously good stuff worse and making bigger expensive kits better to the point of being auto-takes.
I get it, GW is a model company first and a rules company second -- but I'm not sure how making it so every 40k army needs multiple NDK, Wraithknight, Imperial Knights or SW fliers is good for the hobby long term. There's no putting the genie back in the bottle here. I've been playing 40k for 18 years. I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly. This is the first time it really feels like the hobby is headed down a dangerous road, especially following such a solid set of rules as 7th, which I'm a huge fan of.
40k
8,500
6,000
5,000
4,000
WFB
Skaven 6,500
2014/08/20 17:27:51
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Unhelpful straw man argument that at best will do nothing positive, at worst will bring down the level of discourse further.
Seriously. It's objectively a bad codex. Not useless, but it's not good. There's no real way to spin this release as a positive if you're a GK player.
Yes tactics and lists will change, but there's no amount of list doctoring that will allow the best GK list to compete against a well played list from a solid codex. I still hold fast that we'll see them as really great allies, or having things allied into them but they don't stand as well on their own as the previous codex.
It's just disappointing, but these things happen.
Yup. And all the 'rebuttals' which come across more as immature taunts aren't helping.
Anyway I'm guessing the formation used as 'allies' would be the deep striking one. Not because of deep striking but because only one HQ and one troop are needed to take two DKs. Termies are better sure but the DKs and Lib are a lot better and if someone is using GK to supplement their army they won't want to spend points on GK troops if they don't have to...
2014/08/20 17:35:17
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Well a lot of us were running "Pure" Grey Knight Armies and like it when the "Meta" is changed up.
No true Scotsman. I played pure Grey Knights, too. My army is now invalid and requires double the cost of rules to even field. And I believe you're using the wrong words... Tactics change every game regardless of list. I believe you mean strategy. And a good release would both allow you're current strategy to work while offering new ones to grow into.
Good games have an always changing meta by design
Bad games, like 40k, has there's forcably changed by changing and/or deleting existing units. That's bad game design as invalidating someone's paid for and painted up minis is only going to breed contempt. The former strategy makes it so everyone is happy.
Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb
2014/08/20 17:39:00
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Stop it with your logic! Haven't you heard man, Grey Knights are now the weakest weaksauce of weaksaucey codices in the history of GW weaky-weaksauceness!
Dude, we know, you got screwed by Warp Quake because you guys don't do random matchups at your FLGS so everyone knew you played daemons going into it. That sucks and would be pretty frustrating.
Snide comments don't help though, and if anything weaken your position.
I get it, GW is a model company first and a rules company second -- but I'm not sure how making it so every 40k army needs multiple NDK, Wraithknight, Imperial Knights or SW fliers is good for the hobby long term. There's no putting the genie back in the bottle here. I've been playing 40k for 18 years. I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly. This is the first time it really feels like the hobby is headed down a dangerous road, especially following such a solid set of rules as 7th, which I'm a huge fan of.
That's a marketing lie. Games Workshop is a short term profit generating company and is starting to fail at that. Their models prices are the highest for quality and their rules are astronomical.
Corvus Belli is a model company. Infinity is entirely free to play. You can start today, for free, and proxy with GW minis. I encourage it as its a better kill team style game than anything GW has made that I've played. CB makes all their money off models and the few folks who will buy the rulebooks for the fluff. That's a model company.
Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb
2014/08/20 17:43:18
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
As there are pics up with the rules, i move we lock this thread at this point.
Not much new to see here.
No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k - DOW III
2014/08/20 17:44:35
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
I get it, GW is a model company first and a rules company second -- but I'm not sure how making it so every 40k army needs multiple NDK, Wraithknight, Imperial Knights or SW fliers is good for the hobby long term. There's no putting the genie back in the bottle here. I've been playing 40k for 18 years. I've seen the good, the bad and the ugly. This is the first time it really feels like the hobby is headed down a dangerous road, especially following such a solid set of rules as 7th, which I'm a huge fan of.
That's a marketing lie. Games Workshop is a short term profit generating company and is starting to fail at that. Their models prices are the highest for quality and their rules are astronomical.
Corvus Belli is a model company. Infinity is entirely free to play. You can start today, for free, and proxy with GW minis. I encourage it as its a better kill team style game than anything GW has made that I've played. CB makes all their money off models and the few folks who will buy the rulebooks for the fluff. That's a model company.
I'm definitely not defending the cost, it's ludicrously high to play a GW game, but it's always been that way and I daresay it's better now that when I started in 2nd ed. Paying $17.50 PER TERMINATOR sucked when everything was in blisters. That said, it used to be that a new codex came out you could head to your FLGS pick up a squad or two of the new stuff and have a lot of fun until you could add more expensive kits. Now I'm staring at my GK and one dreadknight and saying "Is it really worth buying another three of these just to play competitively with this army?"
I'm in a lucky spot. I play Eldar and DE, both of which have good codexes. The latter needs to be updated, but the former is fantastic and required very few new kits to remain good.
I'm looking to pick up another game and Infinity is on my short list. One friend is convincing me to dive into Infinity, but Malifaux is really catching my eye right now.
40k
8,500
6,000
5,000
4,000
WFB
Skaven 6,500
2014/08/20 17:45:11
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Yep, because points inflation means they sell more models. Glad you enjoy their marketing strategies!
Auswin, you can't go wrong with either! I sold an Eldar army because folks just didn't want to play against them. Mech Dark Eldar were totally awesome in 6E, should still be good in 7E except for open top + flamers (Dreadknights make em burn!).
But yes, this thread can be locked. There's a thread already in 40k discussions (just as rosy!) so not much else here.
Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb
2014/08/20 17:52:22
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Anpu42 wrote: Well I just finished figuring out my normal List for a 2,000 Point Game.
Now I no longer have to decide between my Stormraven and my Land Raider.
To me this make the Codex 100% better than the last one!
Why did you have to try to decide between the two?
Grey Templar wrote: The Riptide can't be a giant death robot, its completely lacking a sword or massive chainsaw. All giant death robots have swords or massive chainsaws.
2014/08/20 17:55:11
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Anpu42 wrote: Well I just finished figuring out my normal List for a 2,000 Point Game.
Now I no longer have to decide between my Stormraven and my Land Raider.
To me this make the Codex 100% better than the last one!
Why did you have to try to decide between the two?
Because taking both of them usually ran me to the 2250+ points
Anpu42 wrote: Well I just finished figuring out my normal List for a 2,000 Point Game.
Now I no longer have to decide between my Stormraven and my Land Raider.
To me this make the Codex 100% better than the last one!
Why did you have to try to decide between the two?
Because taking both of them usually ran me to the 2250+ points
How many dreadknights and terminators were you running that you shaved 250 off of your build?
PAGK definitely seem to have taken a hit, but I think TAGK are looking fantastic. Especially with the added threat saturation DK's provide. First turn DS a bunch of 2+ save, relentless Psycannons in the enemy's face (then, I don't know, Incinerators or Psilencers on the DK's)? Oh, and the guys carrying those weapons are not only extremely resilient to shooting, but excellent in assault to boot? Yep, sounds solid to me.
Kind of funny that GK's seem to have gone first-turn-DS-alpha-strike this edition. That used to be Daemons' bag.
2014/08/20 18:17:25
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Anpu42 wrote: Well I just finished figuring out my normal List for a 2,000 Point Game.
Now I no longer have to decide between my Stormraven and my Land Raider.
To me this make the Codex 100% better than the last one!
Why did you have to try to decide between the two?
Because taking both of them usually ran me to the 2250+ points
How many dreadknights and terminators were you running that you shaved 250 off of your build?
Well here is my basic list, it was built off what I wanted to play, not designed to be competitive.
HQ #1: Librarian [Psyker Level-3 Mastery, Mastercraft Nemesis Force Halberd, Melta Bombs Digital Weapons] {160}
Troop #1: Grey Knight Terminators x5 [(Justicar: Mastercraft Nemesis Force Halberd, Melta Bombs) 1x Nemesis Force Daemon-Hammer, 1xPsycannon {207}
Troop #2: Grey Knight Strike Squad x5 [(Justicar: Mastercraft Nemesis Force Sword, Melta Bombs] 1x Nemesis Force Daemon Hammer 1x] {145}
Elite #1: Grey Knight Paladin Squad x7 [Apothecary, Nemesis Banner, 1x Nemesis Force Halberd, 2x Twin Nemeses Force Falchions, 1x Nemeses Force Staff, 2x Nemesis Force Daemon-Hammers, 2x Psilencers] {474}
Elite #2: Grey Knight Purifier Squad x6 [(Justicar: Mastercraft Paired Falchions, Melta Bombs) 2x Nemesis Force Halberds, 1x Nemesis Force Daemon Hammer, 2x Incinerators (Razorback, Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Dozer Blade, Storm Bolter, HK Missile) {287}
Fast Attack #1: Grey Knight Interceptor Squad [(Justicar: Nemesis Force Halberd, Melta Bombs) 2x Twin-Falchions, 1x Incinerator {160}
Fast Attack #2: Storm Raven {200}
Heavy Support #1: Nemesis Dreadknight [Personal Teleporter, Heavy Incinerator, Gatling Psilencer] {210}
Heavy Support #2: Land Raider Redeemer [Multi-Melta, Storm Bolter] {255}
Cratfworld Alaitoc (
Order of the Red Mantle (
Grand (little) Army of Chaos, now painting! (
8,500
6,000
5,000
4,000
No madam, 40,000 is the year that this game is set in. Not how much it costs. Though you may have a point. - GW Fulchester 
The Gatling Guns have flamethrowers on them because this is 40k 
3000
4000 
5000
Who knows? 
