Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2014/08/20 22:36:01
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Is there any actual valid reason as to why GK terminators got a points reduction other than "hmm, we wrecked most of the codex, lets stop GK players crying by making their Dreadknight and Termies cheaper"
I mean - point by point, a GK termie is better than a vanilla space marine termie.
They both got stormbolters; while the SM termie has a powerfist, the GK termie strikes at initiative and either with S5, or can take a hammer to emulate the same effects of a powerfist, with the added bonus of concussion
The GK termie also has more special rules
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/20 22:36:53
Ravenous D wrote: 40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote: GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
2014/08/20 22:59:51
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Sir Arun wrote: Is there any actual valid reason as to why GK terminators got a points reduction other than "hmm, we wrecked most of the codex, lets stop GK players crying by making their Dreadknight and Termies cheaper"
I mean - point by point, a GK termie is better than a vanilla space marine termie.
They both got stormbolters; while the SM termie has a powerfist, the GK termie strikes at initiative and either with S5, or can take a hammer to emulate the same effects of a powerfist, with the added bonus of concussion
The GK termie also has more special rules
Even with Allies and Unbound around a codex should be have some external balance (don't know if that's done well here though - never played GKs) and provides you a viable army to work on its own. C:SM has several choices that GK players would gladly take. Well, most of the other codices have choices you want for your own 'cause they're better and/or cheaper or give you something you miss in your army.
2014/08/20 23:03:42
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
easysauce wrote: Over all, I think if you had codex GK before, and wanted to PLAY GK"s you got a lot more out of this dex,
if you had codex GK before, and wanted to play codex inquisition or codex coteaz + 24pts of troops and other stuff you might be a bit miffed.
personally, my GK army that always took 3 DK's is creaming its pants since now I can take 4 dk's, get 4++ on them, the heavy psycannon is awesome now! and I can DS turn one with stuff.
will be nice to take my libbys off the shelf too.
Sure, if you played Grey Knights and only Grey Knights, things are just peachy (unless you liked using the PAGK with Psycannons). Me? I liked to toss in an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor in some of my lists (never used Coteaz, and never used any henchmen). Now I need a $25 eBook for that one model. And if I wanted to toss in one of my assassins? That's another $17 for one model.
Think about that: the rules that allow you to field these individual models now cost more than the models themselves.
Like someone said earlier in the thread, for the combined price of the new GK Codex, the Inquisition Codex, and the Assassins dataslate (just so you can play with the same stuff that was in the old GK Codex), you can instead buy a tablet and a pirate hat to go with it.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
2014/08/21 01:21:39
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
Like someone said earlier in the thread, for the combined price of the new GK Codex, the Inquisition Codex, and the Assassins dataslate (just so you can play with the same stuff that was in the old GK Codex), you can instead buy a tablet and a pirate hat to go with it.
easysauce wrote: Over all, I think if you had codex GK before, and wanted to PLAY GK"s you got a lot more out of this dex,
if you had codex GK before, and wanted to play codex inquisition or codex coteaz + 24pts of troops and other stuff you might be a bit miffed.
personally, my GK army that always took 3 DK's is creaming its pants since now I can take 4 dk's, get 4++ on them, the heavy psycannon is awesome now! and I can DS turn one with stuff.
will be nice to take my libbys off the shelf too.
Sure, if you played Grey Knights and only Grey Knights, things are just peachy (unless you liked using the PAGK with Psycannons).
Lol, so things are just peachy except for the anyone who ran anything from the inquisition and the huge number of GK-only players who ran tons of PAGK and psycannons. So things are 'just peachy' for like 10% of GK players lol.
2014/08/21 02:26:24
Subject: Re:Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
easysauce wrote: Over all, I think if you had codex GK before, and wanted to PLAY GK"s you got a lot more out of this dex,
if you had codex GK before, and wanted to play codex inquisition or codex coteaz + 24pts of troops and other stuff you might be a bit miffed.
personally, my GK army that always took 3 DK's is creaming its pants since now I can take 4 dk's, get 4++ on them, the heavy psycannon is awesome now! and I can DS turn one with stuff.
will be nice to take my libbys off the shelf too.
Sure, if you played Grey Knights and only Grey Knights, things are just peachy (unless you liked using the PAGK with Psycannons).
Lol, so things are just peachy except for the anyone who ran anything from the inquisition and the huge number of GK-only players who ran tons of PAGK and psycannons. So things are 'just peachy' for like 10% of GK players lol.
PAGK didn't really change. They now pay for their Justicar/Vet sergeant, but otherwise are about the same- Purifiers gained a mastery level, Strike Squads pay less to swap out their swords, Incinerators got a lot cheaper for them and Interceptors, and Purgators pay less for psy cannons.
Psybolts hit everyone equally. And Terminators are now brought down to competitive pricing with Strike squads- in 5th and 6th, the common theme was that there is no reason to run basic terminators because Strike Squads were so much better. And why run strike squads when you could take 12 point henchmen squads with Coteaz to cover the troop slots.
2014/08/21 02:54:59
Subject: Re:Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
LoL. We all do, it's been posted all over the Internet.
Six mistakes mankind keeps making century after century: Believing that personal gain is made by crushing others; Worrying about things that cannot be changed or corrected; Insisting that a thing is impossible because we cannot accomplish it; Refusing to set aside trivial preferences; Neglecting development and refinement of the mind; Attempting to compel others to believe and live as we do
2014/08/21 03:13:40
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
easysauce wrote: Over all, I think if you had codex GK before, and wanted to PLAY GK"s you got a lot more out of this dex,
if you had codex GK before, and wanted to play codex inquisition or codex coteaz + 24pts of troops and other stuff you might be a bit miffed.
personally, my GK army that always took 3 DK's is creaming its pants since now I can take 4 dk's, get 4++ on them, the heavy psycannon is awesome now! and I can DS turn one with stuff.
will be nice to take my libbys off the shelf too.
Sure, if you played Grey Knights and only Grey Knights, things are just peachy (unless you liked using the PAGK with Psycannons).
Lol, so things are just peachy except for the anyone who ran anything from the inquisition and the huge number of GK-only players who ran tons of PAGK and psycannons. So things are 'just peachy' for like 10% of GK players lol.
PAGK didn't really change. They now pay for their Justicar/Vet sergeant, but otherwise are about the same-
Strike squads are more expensive base, and their main weapon, the psycannon, sucks now. Purifiers running psycannons also sucks now. Those two are what most people running PAGK fielded.
2014/08/21 03:23:23
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
easysauce wrote: Over all, I think if you had codex GK before, and wanted to PLAY GK"s you got a lot more out of this dex,
if you had codex GK before, and wanted to play codex inquisition or codex coteaz + 24pts of troops and other stuff you might be a bit miffed.
personally, my GK army that always took 3 DK's is creaming its pants since now I can take 4 dk's, get 4++ on them, the heavy psycannon is awesome now! and I can DS turn one with stuff.
will be nice to take my libbys off the shelf too.
Sure, if you played Grey Knights and only Grey Knights, things are just peachy (unless you liked using the PAGK with Psycannons).
Lol, so things are just peachy except for the anyone who ran anything from the inquisition and the huge number of GK-only players who ran tons of PAGK and psycannons. So things are 'just peachy' for like 10% of GK players lol.
psycannons were not changed that much, all that was lost was the assault after, I played psy spam and its not the best list, and its just as viable(or not) as it was before despite losing assault ability after shooting.
I also have many lists that use inquisitors and henchmen, all of which I can still use, sure I had to buy an INQ dex, if your complaint is that you have to spend money I get that, its a big deal price wise to some people.
game wise however, NET options went up with the split.
I loved mordrak too, but Ill trade army wide first turn DS for his one unit and the other stuff any day.
overall this codex isnt blowing me away like Orks did, but it is a good update to current rules and opens up a lot of GK only stuff, while minimally affecting my INQ + GK builds.
heck;... the change to psyk out... forcing perils? from EVERY unit?
mmmmmm
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/21 03:23:53
2014/08/21 03:48:07
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
easysauce wrote: Over all, I think if you had codex GK before, and wanted to PLAY GK"s you got a lot more out of this dex,
if you had codex GK before, and wanted to play codex inquisition or codex coteaz + 24pts of troops and other stuff you might be a bit miffed.
personally, my GK army that always took 3 DK's is creaming its pants since now I can take 4 dk's, get 4++ on them, the heavy psycannon is awesome now! and I can DS turn one with stuff.
will be nice to take my libbys off the shelf too.
Sure, if you played Grey Knights and only Grey Knights, things are just peachy (unless you liked using the PAGK with Psycannons).
Lol, so things are just peachy except for the anyone who ran anything from the inquisition and the huge number of GK-only players who ran tons of PAGK and psycannons. So things are 'just peachy' for like 10% of GK players lol.
psycannons were not changed that much, all that was lost was the assault after, I played psy spam and its not the best list, and its just as viable(or not) as it was before despite losing assault ability after shooting.
I also have many lists that use inquisitors and henchmen, all of which I can still use, sure I had to buy an INQ dex, if your complaint is that you have to spend money I get that, its a big deal price wise to some people.
game wise however, NET options went up with the split.
I loved mordrak too, but Ill trade army wide first turn DS for his one unit and the other stuff any day.
overall this codex isnt blowing me away like Orks did, but it is a good update to current rules and opens up a lot of GK only stuff, while minimally affecting my INQ + GK builds.
heck;... the change to psyk out... forcing perils? from EVERY unit?
mmmmmm
Psycannons were changed very much. Look again at Salvo. The Stationary profile is the same, but Grey Knights can't afford to be stationary. The moving profile is the same 2 shots at S7, AP4, but only has a range of 12", AND you can't assault afterwards. So it can only be fired from assault range, but prevents the unit from assaulting. For PAGK, that makes it worthless.
Mordrak was a guaranteed turn 1 deepstrike with NO scatter. What we have now is a 66% chance on each unit coming in first turn with FULL scatter. Not a fair tradeoff. Mordrak should have been left in but given a Teleport Homer, then units using the regular CAD could deepstrike without scatter around him starting on turn 2, and a Comms Relay would make that turn 2 arrival much more reliable.
2014/08/21 04:14:55
Subject: Re:Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
LoL. We all do, it's been posted all over the Internet.
And we got it at a fair market price, it would seem.
And splitting the codex increases prices and reduces value overall. Many of us can most likely afford the books (for the record, I already own the Codex: Inquisition and I hate it for being a bland rehash and further hate it after the stealth update that killed one of the very reasons I bought it!), but that doesn't justify the pricing or rather the value of the purchase. Paying $95 for what we got previously for $33 is ludicrous. More so when we know that rules are plentiful and cheap everywhere else all while being better maintained and better written.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/21 04:31:35
Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb
2014/08/21 04:36:28
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
No, PAGK absolutely, positively suck now for 5 reasons:
- 10 points costlier because reasons
- when they move, they can only shoot 12" with the psycannon
- halberds were the one thing that gave them a fighting chance in cc (if people rolled that way). Now that is out of the question
- no psybolt ammo, so you cant alternately have them sit and dish out S5 shots either
- cheaper terminators
only thing that got better for the PAGK is the psilencers are a tad more useful now
In the old codex, at least for PAGKs, their special weapons were priced competetively - psycannon was priced fairly, because when you moved, you suffered from reduced firepower output. Psilencers were FREE, but also same deal like psycannon with them being heavy, but you lost ALL firepower if you moved. Incinerators were best for moving and shooting, but also costly.
In the new dex, its the other way round - incinerators are dirt cheap, psilencers 10 points costlier, and psycannons 5 points costlier DESPITE the nerf. Monobuilds, woo
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/08/21 04:45:37
Ravenous D wrote: 40K is like a beloved grandparent that is slowly falling into dementia and the rest of the family is in denial about how bad it is.
squidhills wrote: GW is scared of girls. Why do you think they have so much trouble sculpting attractive female models? Because girls have cooties and the staff at GW don't like looking at them for too long because it makes them feel funny in their naughty place.
2014/08/21 04:57:15
Subject: Re:Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
I could actually see a case for interceptors with incinerators now. I think i'm just going to snap all my PA psycannons and backpacks off of my PA guys and run them as interceptors now.
A grandmaster with a psycannon might be fun now too.
Other than that, yeah, the same monobuild everyone else has already described.
Anpu42 wrote: Strike Squads look to be a good choice for holding your objectives, where movement is not needed
Too expensive for holding an objective.
I'd opt for allies here, vanilla SM or AM.
Some of us don't ally with our Grey Knights.
A 5 model Strike Squad with just a Special Weapon will run you 115-125 points and probably the only Power Armored Troop Choice that is better is probably Grey Hunters.
Anpu42 wrote: Strike Squads look to be a good choice for holding your objectives, where movement is not needed
Too expensive for holding an objective.
I'd opt for allies here, vanilla SM or AM.
Some of us don't ally with our Grey Knights.
A 5 model Strike Squad with just a Special Weapon will run you 115-125 points and probably the only Power Armored Troop Choice that is better is probably Grey Hunters.
I said it already elsewhere. Strike are too specialized for simply objective holding in the backfield.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Happygrunt wrote: Crowe's job is to now make it to combat and utterly destroy things in challenges. I may have to dust off one of my favorite GK models again.
I don't really see it. He only gets to make 1 STR8 AP2 smash attack and against most models that will accept that challenge, will make him rely on a re-rollable 4++ or die immediately himself. The big boys are still gonna make him pay pretty easily.
Your opponent can always just decline and Crowe goes back to slap fighting (excluding Chaos and such that have to accept).
I'll definitely playtest him, but I'm expecting just as much out of him in this edition as the last.
2014/08/21 07:24:40
Subject: Grey Knights are next ! - UPDATED 15/8 --- pre-order up on GW website
I think Interceptors might be good now. 145 pts for a 5-man unit with an Incinerator and a Hammer, coupled with the 30" shunt move, could do a lot of damage or even just be a good distraction unit.
GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants"
2000 l 
2000 l 
2000 l 
1500 l 
1000 l 
1000 l 
Blood Ravens (using Ravenguard CT) 1500 l 
1500 l
KHADOR 
X-Wing (Empire Strong) 
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
