Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
I actually prefer a buffmander in a crisis suit unit with 6-8x marker drones where the suits have target locks so drones get twin-linked bs5 and the suits get twin-linked tank/monster hunter with ignores cover shots .
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
SabrX wrote: Thanks for creating this thread! I'm really digging Adam's Tau list. I've never though using Marker Drones gun squad. I'm guessing Shadowsun attaches to them to increase their survivability.
Actually, he plays her more aggressively than that. This is from my own experience playing against him and both times, he went first. So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using BAOFAQ's). Then it's a guaranteed First Blood, not to mention he can alpha-strike the crap out of deathstars before they get a chance to power up at all! That is his answer to the seer council, beaststar, centurionstar, draigowing, FMC-spam, whatever. As long as he is going 1st, your unit is going to eat all those missile/SMS shots.
It gets much worse if he gets the Master of Ambush Warlord trait, as he is then infiltrating Shadowsun + broadsides, Commander (his warlord) + markerdrones, 2nd broadsides and 2 riptides. That was essentially how he was able to table Blackmoor's Draigowing by Turn 2. It's really nasty, and if you reserve, he's got Interceptor on all of his units!
SabrX wrote: Thanks for creating this thread! I'm really digging Adam's Tau list. I've never though using Marker Drones gun squad. I'm guessing Shadowsun attaches to them to increase their survivability.
Actually, he plays her more aggressively than that. This is from my own experience playing against him and both times, he went first. So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using BAOFAQ's). Then it's a guaranteed First Blood, not to mention he can alpha-strike the crap out of deathstars before they get a chance to power up at all! That is his answer to the seer council, beaststar, centurionstar, draigowing, FMC-spam, whatever. As long as he is going 1st, your unit is going to eat all those missile/SMS shots.
It gets much worse if he gets the Master of Ambush Warlord trait, as he is then infiltrating Shadowsun + broadsides, Commander (his warlord) + markerdrones, 2nd broadsides and 2 riptides. That was essentially how he was able to table Blackmoor's Draigowing by Turn 2. It's really nasty, and if you reserve, he's got Interceptor on all of his units!
Adams list is brutal, no doubt, but a Plasma Farsight bomb and 27 sniper drones in Storm of Fire range would eat through both Riptides and a Unit of broadsides per turn. (I did mathammer it)
RiTides wrote: I'd love to see your bat reps and analysis, jy2. Skyblight I thought was supposed to be weaker in 7th, and I'm not a huge fan of it, but this version is something I could actually run. So, I'll be keeping an eye out for that... wondering what the bastion is doing with a mostly airborne list (moving the flyers nearby on their way in to boost their save?).
Skyblight is weaker nowadays than it was in 6th. It's main advantage back then was that it was the only army build with ObSec. Well, nowadays, everyone else has it, which really neuters its main advantage. Oh yeah, and its FMC's got nerfed as well.
However, my reason for taking Skyblight isn't because I wanted to win at all costs. It isn't even because I think it is the best Tyranid build. Rather, it was because of all the work, money and effort that was put into it. I started off building this army in 6th, and I'll be damned if I didn't run it at least once in a competitive event. This was truly an army where I had to use all of my skills in order to make it work, but that's ok. I enjoyed the challenge.
Bastion is a force-multiplier and I use it in all of my Tyranid armies. Yes, that immobile piece of building helps to make my army that much better. The advantages of the bastion:
1. LOS-blocker in the case of a terrain-lite table.
2. Comms relay to manipulate reserves. This gives me added flexibility in how I want to play with my reserves.
3. Venom-in-a-box strategy. Helps to extend his Shrouding range. Also protects him from enemy alpha-strikes.
4. Can actually claim a "home" objective.
All of this is pretty much true. The Bastions are invaluable for protecting Tyranids from an Alpha-strike. The other reason I'll add to the above is
5. Barricades, these provide a guaranteed 4++ cover for units behind them, which will also always be within 6" of the Bastion for shrouded.
I don't think that Skyblight is the best way to play Tyranids anymore because I don't think FMC saturation is great when the Harpies are so ineffective. I'd rather just buy the Flyrant, Crone and Gargoyles and have 270 points left from no Harpies. Actually the best reason, I think, to take a Skyblight is just to get the third Flyrant in there.
Thanks for these thoughts, guys! Do you still see yourself taking one even with the Malanthrope being updated?
I keep seeing lists with only deepstriking rippers as troops. It seems like this leaves you light on objective secured units... and I did just paint up 150 gaunts . Oh well
I do like the Bastion and have the parts to convert up a gribbly one, so I'm glad to hear it's still worthwhile. With lists like the BAO allowing self-allying, it seems like you can get the third Flyrant in that way. I'd love to see some 3 Flyrant builds using self-allying rather than Skyblight.
mortetvie wrote: I actually prefer a buffmander in a crisis suit unit with 6-8x marker drones where the suits have target locks so drones get twin-linked bs5 and the suits get twin-linked tank/monster hunter with ignores cover shots .
I agree and I know we've discussed this kind of loadout in detail. Its super flexible and provides a massive amount of support against a single unit, lights them up like a Christmas Tree.
jy2, that is definitely a BAOFAQ rule change and one I"m glad NOVA is sticking to the RAW on. I still don't understand why you West Coast guys need to change that rule, lol! Its been multiple editions already.
But Master of Ambush is IMO the single most powerful Warlord Trait for most games. Infiltrating Warlord +3 Units is extremely powerful, unfortunately in every game I've attempted to roll it I have failed!
Zagman wrote: jy2, that is definitely a BAOFAQ rule change and one I"m glad NOVA is sticking to the RAW on. I still don't understand why you West Coast guys need to change that rule, lol! Its been multiple editions already.
SabrX wrote: Thanks for creating this thread! I'm really digging Adam's Tau list. I've never though using Marker Drones gun squad. I'm guessing Shadowsun attaches to them to increase their survivability.
Actually, he plays her more aggressively than that. This is from my own experience playing against him and both times, he went first. So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using BAOFAQ's). Then it's a guaranteed First Blood, not to mention he can alpha-strike the crap out of deathstars before they get a chance to power up at all! That is his answer to the seer council, beaststar, centurionstar, draigowing, FMC-spam, whatever. As long as he is going 1st, your unit is going to eat all those missile/SMS shots.
Yes, that is correct. BAOFAQ allows a character with Infiltrate to confer it onto the unit he is with (and vice versa). Apparently, the Nova FAQ doesn't. I believe this is because the BAO used a lot of the slightly older 6E FAQ's because there just really wasn't a lot of time for them to further develop their FAQ's. If you compare the new FAQ's to the previous 6E FAQ's, GW took out a lot of the Q&A's that helped to clarify a lot of the ambiguities in the rules. Well, since they took them out, it's been the wild west once again. As a stop-gap measure, I believe the BAO was using some of those FAQ's to "fill in the blanks" with regards to the newer FAQ. And then there were some rules changes probably for reasons of practicality in tournament play.
It may all change in the future. I don't believe the BAOFAQ's are set in stone.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/01 18:16:08
Zagman wrote: jy2, that is definitely a BAOFAQ rule change and one I"m glad NOVA is sticking to the RAW on. I still don't understand why you West Coast guys need to change that rule, lol! Its been multiple editions already.
SabrX wrote: Thanks for creating this thread! I'm really digging Adam's Tau list. I've never though using Marker Drones gun squad. I'm guessing Shadowsun attaches to them to increase their survivability.
Actually, he plays her more aggressively than that. This is from my own experience playing against him and both times, he went first. So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using BAOFAQ's). Then it's a guaranteed First Blood, not to mention he can alpha-strike the crap out of deathstars before they get a chance to power up at all! That is his answer to the seer council, beaststar, centurionstar, draigowing, FMC-spam, whatever. As long as he is going 1st, your unit is going to eat all those missile/SMS shots.
BAO has for 7th, and unless I am mistake for 6th as well ruled that you can use an IC to Infiltrate a unit that does not have the Infiltrate special rule despite it being absolutely impossible RAW in both 6th and 7th. NOVA has ruled you cannot do this which is consistent with the raw of Infiltrate and how ICs attach to units.
jy2 wrote:@RiTides
Yes, that is correct. BAOFAQ allows a character with Infiltrate to confer it onto the unit he is with (and vice versa). Apparently, the Nova FAQ doesn't. I believe this is because the BAO used a lot of the slightly older 6E FAQ's because there just really wasn't a lot of time for them to further develop their FAQ's. If you compare the new FAQ's to the previous 6E FAQ's, GW took out a lot of the Q&A's that helped to clarify a lot of the ambiguities in the rules. Well, since they took them out, it's been the wild west once again. As a stop-gap measure, I believe the BAO was using some of those FAQ's to "fill in the blanks" with regards to the newer FAQ. And then there were some rules changes probably for reasons of practicality in tournament play.
It may all change in the future. I don't believe the BAOFAQ's are set in stone.
Stop gap or no, it is still a direct rule change that is IMO completely unnecessary. The BRB is explicitley clear on how ICs attach to units and how Infiltrate works and ICs cannot grant Infiltrate to a unit RAW as they are deployed and join said unit after the unit is already deployed. I believe the same was ruled in 6th as well at BAO, unless I'm mistaken which is entirely possible.
Adams list is brutal, no doubt, but a Plasma Farsight bomb and 27 sniper drones in Storm of Fire range would eat through both Riptides and a Unit of broadsides per turn. (I did mathammer it)
I think we're going to see some cool sniper drone action in 7th. Combined with SoF, you can do some serious damage to some of the big baddies out there. I'm curious to see how this list would stack up against such a scenario.
I like Sniper Drones if for no other reason than good source of Marker Drones and they can do some crazy good damage to MCs with an Ethereal buff and Buffmander in the unit.
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
jy2 wrote: Actually, he plays her more aggressively than that. This is from my own experience playing against him and both times, he went first. So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using BAOFAQ's). Then it's a guaranteed First Blood, not to mention he can alpha-strike the crap out of deathstars before they get a chance to power up at all! That is his answer to the seer council, beaststar, centurionstar, draigowing, FMC-spam, whatever. As long as he is going 1st, your unit is going to eat all those missile/SMS shots.
It gets much worse if he gets the Master of Ambush Warlord trait, as he is then infiltrating Shadowsun + broadsides, Commander (his warlord) + markerdrones, 2nd broadsides and 2 riptides. That was essentially how he was able to table Blackmoor's Draigowing by Turn 2. It's really nasty, and if you reserve, he's got Interceptor on all of his units!
This is the kind of needless rules change that really kills the competitive aspect of 40k for me. A list like this wins against certain armies before they have even deployed. The rules are pretty black and white on IC with infiltrate and allowing them to join units and confer it allows for so much abuse. Curious why I didn't see an eldar player abusing Illic in this manner.
Goldphish wrote: This is the kind of needless rules change that really kills the competitive aspect of 40k for me. A list like this wins against certain armies before they have even deployed. The rules are pretty black and white on IC with infiltrate and allowing them to join units and confer it allows for so much abuse. Curious why I didn't see an eldar player abusing Illic in this manner.
it's not black and white. If it was, the ruling wouldn't be necessary.
Besides, this strategy requires you to go first and not get seized on. So building an entire army for this purpose is risky over a 5-6 game tournament.
The BAO ruling makes infiltrate more reliable and useful and opens the door to other tactics. Regardless, there are still drawbacks to the decision to infiltrate so meh. It wasn't really an issue in my games.
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
Grey Templar wrote: The Riptide can't be a giant death robot, its completely lacking a sword or massive chainsaw. All giant death robots have swords or massive chainsaws.
jy2 wrote: Actually, he plays her more aggressively than that. This is from my own experience playing against him and both times, he went first. So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using BAOFAQ's). Then it's a guaranteed First Blood, not to mention he can alpha-strike the crap out of deathstars before they get a chance to power up at all! That is his answer to the seer council, beaststar, centurionstar, draigowing, FMC-spam, whatever. As long as he is going 1st, your unit is going to eat all those missile/SMS shots.
It gets much worse if he gets the Master of Ambush Warlord trait, as he is then infiltrating Shadowsun + broadsides, Commander (his warlord) + markerdrones, 2nd broadsides and 2 riptides. That was essentially how he was able to table Blackmoor's Draigowing by Turn 2. It's really nasty, and if you reserve, he's got Interceptor on all of his units!
This is the kind of needless rules change that really kills the competitive aspect of 40k for me. A list like this wins against certain armies before they have even deployed. The rules are pretty black and white on IC with infiltrate and allowing them to join units and confer it allows for so much abuse. Curious why I didn't see an eldar player abusing Illic in this manner.
To me, it doesn't really matter. As long as the tournament posts the "houserule" in advance so that people know about it. I mean, there's already 100's of broken combos in the game already. What is one more combo? Besides, this edition is the edition of houserules anyways, at least in competitive play.
BTW, you are risking a 400+ pt unit by infiltrating it. In many cases, while you may potentially gain First Blood, you stand to lose more than you stand to gain.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/03 21:01:01
Illic with 10 Scythe Guard, 5 spiritseers, and Baron Sathonyx! Over 1000 points of awesome!
Or for the Cheaper option
Illic with 20 guardians + 2 Shuriken Cannons for 360 Points
44 pseudo rending shots + a bonus super special sniper shot into the unit of your choice on turn 1!!!
I am glad we aren't devolving the conversation into school yard **** measuring.... Oh wait...
Point is, it is an unnecessary rule change. There is no ambiguity with the RAW interaction, Reece just hates it, he's said it repeatedly in his own videos/podcasts. It's his event so he can change what he wants, but it most certainly is an arbitrary change.
"There are 100's of broken combos, whats one more?" simple, it's 100's +1 broken combos, why play if the current state is so hopeless a few more idiotic changes can't make it worse. It's just one more thing people need to look out for piled on top of an already bloated pile. The aim should be reduction not growth of bloat.
I'd ask Blackmoore how he felt about that gem of a change. I can't speak for him but doubt he was ready for it preparing for those 100's of other crap interactions.
Infiltrating a unit isn't anymore broken than giving it Tank Hunter or Ignore Cover (via markerlights).
And in Blackmoor's case, it isn't so much infiltrating Shadowsun with broadsides as it was Master of Ambush allowing 3 riptides to infiltrate with S8/9 AP2 large blasts and Tau going 1st.
Well hopefully there won't be too many more arbitrary rules changes this year. We all know ahead of time and can plan accordingly but it can still be annoying.
I think when GW updates their FAQ's, everything will be better. But the initial GW 7E FAQ's took out a lot of the clarifications from their 6E FAQ's, thus throwing some of the armies/rules back into chaos once again.
Also, as TO's have more time to hash out the FAQ's, they may come to a more universal FAQ. Problem with the BAOFAQ's was that there probably just wasn't enough time for this, which is why you see minor variations in FAQ's in the initial stages of 7E tournaments.
Khan was in almost all the top SM lists. That and Chapter Master Smash too (Chapter Master with Shield Eternal, TH, bike, & Artificer armor). Always thought he was too expensive for tournament play clocking in at land raider cost, for those of you that used him how did he preform?
Games Workshop: Ruining Chaos Space Marines since 2007
First they raised prices on the Eldar, and I did not speak out because I did not play Eldar.
Then, they raised prices on the Orks, and I did not speak out because I did not play Orks.
Then, they raised prices on the Nids, and I did not speak out because I did not play Nids.
Then, they raised prices on the Marines, and there was nobody to speak out for me.
I wasn't there but as someone who has fielded a WSCM kitted out they are well worth their points and can easily win you otherwise poor matchups.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
jy2 wrote: Infiltrating a unit isn't anymore broken than giving it Tank Hunter or Ignore Cover (via markerlights).
So again your argument revolves around the game already having bloated and horrible rule interactions so why not add another. Not to mention you ignore the fact that said busted rules, in your opinion, are perfectly legal and outlined as such in the rules unlike the terrible change in the BAOFAQ. It was and still is a very unneeded change.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/04 03:29:04
To me, it really doesn't matter one way or another as long as the tournament posts their house rule. There are just so many combos out there nowadays that the infiltrating issue is almost a non-issue to me personally. Heck, in all 4 of my games against marines, I was facing alpha-strike lists that went first against me - 2 drop pod armies, scouting White Scars and a devastating centurion star with Gate of Infinity. It is something you just need to take into account when building/playing your army.
If you don't like the rule, fine. Voice your complaint to the TO beforehand. Or just don't go. Problem solved. However, if you do decide to go, then you better be willing to play under their house rule. As for me, I could care less. I knew the rules going into the event and frankly, it isn't really that big a deal to me because it is a rules change that is easily adaptable.
Spartan089 wrote: Khan was in almost all the top SM lists. That and Chapter Master Smash too (Chapter Master with Shield Eternal, TH, bike, & Artificer armor). Always thought he was too expensive for tournament play clocking in at land raider cost, for those of you that used him how did he preform?
He has always been good. Immune to Small Arms fire and resilent against most things, you can kill ANYTHING he touchs. He blew up a fellblade and killed War Walkers and at one point threw a grenade, hit and penetrated a Dakkajet the immobilised and crash landed on the guys own army, he soaks up so much fire(If he is in a Command Squad, FNP)
In WS, his major weakness(Fearless infantry that can bog him) is negated by the Hit & Run
Hey Adam Merlic here just want to make a correction on my list, for the BAO I used:
Hq Commander
o Drone Controller, Sim Injector, Shield Gen, Neuroweb System Jammer, Command and control Node, Iridium armor.
Shadowsun
Troops
- Fire warrior team
o 6 men
o Devilfish
SMS, Disruption pods
- Fire warrior team
o 6 men
o Devilfish
SMS, Disruption pods
Fast
- Marker Drones
o 9 Drones
Elite
- Riptide
o Ion Accelerator, Meltas, Early Warning, Stim Injector
- Riptide
o Ion Accelerator, Meltas, Early Warning, Stim Injector
Formation
- Fireblade Support Cadre
o Riptide
Ion Accelerator, Meltas, Early Warning, Stim Injector
o Bsides
2. 3 man squads
• SMS, high yield , Early Warning
@mortetvie Gratz on 3rd place! Do you plan to do some battlereports from this tournament or describing your insight for running your list? I would gladly read sth like this from really great DEldar player.
SpamAdams wrote: Hey Adam Merlic here just want to make a correction on my list, for the BAO I used:
Spoiler:
Hq Commander
o Drone Controller, Sim Injector, Shield Gen, Neuroweb System Jammer, Command and control Node, Iridium armor.
Shadowsun
Troops
- Fire warrior team
o 6 men
o Devilfish
SMS, Disruption pods
- Fire warrior team
o 6 men
o Devilfish
SMS, Disruption pods
Fast
- Marker Drones
o 9 Drones
Elite
- Riptide
o Ion Accelerator, Meltas, Early Warning, Stim Injector
- Riptide
o Ion Accelerator, Meltas, Early Warning, Stim Injector
Formation
- Fireblade Support Cadre
o Riptide
Ion Accelerator, Meltas, Early Warning, Stim Injector
o Bsides
2. 3 man squads
• SMS, high yield , Early Warning
haha well you better change your list just wondering where did you place at the BAO? lets get a game in soon
I really did like you list. I have been doing a collaboration with some other Tau players here on Dakka to change up my list. I am going to be running something similar to Zagman's Tau. Good to see you on the forums too I placed 49 going 3-3. It could have been 4-2 but I failed a 4 inch charge that would have gotten me game (highly likely). We should totally get a game in! Again congrats you your performance on the BAO, well done!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/04 19:02:10
.
So what he does is to attach Shadowsun to the broadsides and then infiltrate them (you can do that using 
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
This was truly an army where I had to use all of my skills in order to make it work, but that's ok. I enjoyed the challenge.
. Oh well 
4000 points: Craftworld Mymeara 
too (Chapter Master with Shield Eternal, 
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
