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So now that its been out for awhile is a squadron of wyverns worth the hassle of dealing with so many templates?

It depends on your meta I would say, if it's all wraith knights and leman russes then probably not. But if you see DE, blob IG, Green tide orks, nids with any frequency.
Wyverns excel at dealing with groups, even Termies and plague marines have a chance to fall under the torrent of wounds. They are good but not auto take, thats my two cent.

Yes. I have always found them successful and the template things isnt very hard or annoying to do.

So yes from me.

Especially with the seemingly minor change in how multiple templates work in 7th, it's not that big an issue. Because all the hits are allocated from the center of the first template, there's a lot less bookkeeping to do as you fire. Just roll the scatter dice and count.the hits!

A wyvern or two isn't a terrible unit; in fact it's rather pleasant. If you know well in advance that your facing an enemy with a good supply of infantry and you can keep it covered by your other field armor and infantry the wyvern is simply awesome. If your going to play him like a herp a derp basilisk you deserve what's coming.

They are great in mech lists. If you have lots of AV12 and AV14, they have a fair chance to make it alive a few rounds.

However, if you don't have enough armor and run lots of infantry, the wyverns will be a priority target for the enemy and will be taken out in the first round. AV12 is super easy to take it in the current meta.

 usernamesareannoying wrote:
So now that its been out for awhile is a squadron of wyverns worth the hassle of dealing with so many templates?

The Wyverns are really good. I Purchased three, and use them as Hydras but they are EASILY convertible back and forth actually. Ive had them used against me though and with prescience, its a real nasty combo.

If you're not careful, wyvrens will make people hate you.
I've been limiting myself to one unit of two because I feel like a jerk when I play more.
Armored transports are little help, as they break and juicy targets fall out. Especially against your chimeras, rhinos wil not last long.

when people pull out their Centurion Star, I feel like Im okay with three Wyverns. When people pull out their Beast star...i want Wyverns. and when the Flying Daemon circus shows up with its token 2-3 little objective stealing units... I wamnt to bash the brains in on those token units and make him pay for his cheeky ways.

No, ther's no shame in taking three. Its a part of the codex.

I prefer the Hydras and so i dont USWE Wyverns at all, but on the receiving end i respect them. They are not at the bottom of my priority list!

I love my unit of 2 wyverns they always make their points back.

Wyverns do what your massive pile of lasguns or free chimera heavy weapons do. Except they waste an HS slot doing it.

If you really need more of what the only thing wyverns are good for, just take more troops choices.

Lol. No.

 Jancoran wrote:
Lol. No.

Way to contest his point. That's some top shelf debating there.

He's not wrong. Wyverns cover anti-infantry, and do it fairly well. The thing is....so does pretty much everything else in the codex, and pretty much every other. There are very few units that aren't at least passable at anti-infantry, and dedicating a heavy support choice to it in a TAC list is probably unwise unless it is extremely good at it, you are missing anti-infantry from the rest of your list for some reason, and/or you expect a TON of infantry regularly.

I'd run Thunderfires in a marine list, and a Wyvern is the IG thunderfire really....but I don't know if I'd run Wyverns

For not much more than the cost of a bare-bones Infantry Squad, I think they are well worth considering. With a 48" range, ignores cover, and shred, I've so far found that there is always something worthwhile for them to shoot at, and with the Barrage rule it opens the possibility of (a) sniping wounds on high value targets, and (b) Blast marker walking to hit well protected or out-of-range targets.

I haven't math-hammered it, but the extra point of Strength and 2 (re-rollable) Blasts makes them pretty effective, relative to an Infantry Squad.

Granted, you need to chew a Heavy slot to take them, but with the HQ tank commander option available (which I take a lot), it's not as big a deal as in earlier editions.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
Lol. No.

Way to contest his point. That's some top shelf debating there.

He's not wrong. Wyverns cover anti-infantry, and do it fairly well. The thing is....so does pretty much everything else in the codex, and pretty much every other. There are very few units that aren't at least passable at anti-infantry, and dedicating a heavy support choice to it in a TAC list is probably unwise unless it is extremely good at it, you are missing anti-infantry from the rest of your list for some reason, and/or you expect a TON of infantry regularly.

I'd run Thunderfires in a marine list, and a Wyvern is the IG thunderfire really....but I don't know if I'd run Wyverns

But I do know. I've had them used on me multiple times and I KNOW they are excellent with Prescience. The trouble is, theres no way to know how many models you'll hit nor when and how many situations come up per game that increase or decrease it. So "Top shelf debating" that would require knowing variables you cannot know and should not selfishly try to predict.

So. My answer was very appropriate. It neither invited further comment nor tried to string together some spurious amount of supposition to make the point. The bottom line is, you KNOW this or you dont. Youve seen it or you haven's. If you "wouldnt" use them cool. Ten different ways to sakin a cat. But to suggest that they "waste" a slot? Just no.

 Carnage43 wrote:
Way to contest his point. That's some top shelf debating there.

He's not wrong. Wyverns cover anti-infantry, and do it fairly well. The thing is....so does pretty much everything else in the codex, and pretty much every other. There are very few units that aren't at least passable at anti-infantry, and dedicating a heavy support choice to it in a TAC list is probably unwise unless it is extremely good at it, you are missing anti-infantry from the rest of your list for some reason, and/or you expect a TON of infantry regularly.

The problem with this argument is that it's a false equivelency.

"Wyverns are good anti-infantry in a codex that has lots of anti-infantry".

Okay. So? There is no one unit in the codex whose role can't be performed by another unit in the codex. Vanquisher provides decent anti-armor? So does an infantry blob with three or four lascannons. Better anti-infantry actually, because you can at least give tank hunters or ignores cover to an infantry blob. Infantry blob provides good anti-infantry? So does a Punisher, especially a presciened Punisher or a Pask punisher.

etc. The Guard is a very good, perhaps even the BEST codex in the game in regards to having multiple options for how to handle a specific threat- the Guard codex is one of the few codices where there is no such thing as a mono-build. So many of our options are redundant.

The question is, what unit fills the holes in your list? Lasguns may technically fulfill the same function as a wyvern, but what if you dont have enough guardsmen in your list to do that? What if you're taking mostly veterans and you don't have enough orders to go around to give them all ignores cover? Suddenly, having a 36'' ignores cover weapon with shred is useful.

etc.

 Ailaros wrote:
Wyverns do what your massive pile of lasguns or free chimera heavy weapons do. Except they waste an HS slot doing it.
If you really need more of what the only thing wyverns are good for, just take more troops choices.

4 Blasts, S4 ignore cover, twin-linked, re-roll to wound, AND a heavy bolter; and twice the range, and the ability to fire indirectly.
Somehow that equates to 10 lasguns... in what world?

If you're running veterans for troops, and going with lots of vehicles, a few wyverns are really good.
If your infantry platoons are toting heavy weapons for anti-tank, then you cannot use the lasguns for killing infantry.
If you are running mostly infantry, you don't need wyverns.

Their are plenty of build options for IG, and wyverns do fit into a several of them.

-Matt

The Wyverns are far more effective than lasguns or chimera guns will be, point for point, slot for slot, and unit for unit, at engaging enemy infantry. The average number of casualties inflicted, coupled with being able to hit targets out of LoS, is simply astounding.

The only thing that's an issue is that HS slot, you may just need it for other things if nothing else in your list was built to take on tanks or MC's. But I wouldn't consider it a waste of an HS slot by any means.

Of course, with 7th, the HS slot also matters less than it ever has before, given the army construction rules.

Wyverns are definitely worth it.

They are hands down one of the best units in the codex. At a recent team tournament, the winning team's IG player had a full qouta of the damn things.

Mad_Proctologist wrote:
If you're not careful, wyvrens will make people hate you.
I've been limiting myself to one unit of two because I feel like a jerk when I play more.
Armored transports are little help, as they break and juicy targets fall out. Especially against your chimeras, rhinos wil not last long.

Wyverns are basically auto-take, they're cheap and devastating, but they do engender hatred. A guy at my local game store fields basilisks, mortars, and wyverns en masse, and every time he lays the blast templates he'll roll one, then lean back, ask about the rules, ask how many more he needs to roll, then leans in and rolls the next one. It drags the shooting phase on and on and on. When I field a Wyvern, I announce what I'm doing and I do it quickly "rolling for scatter, re rolling with twin linked, I see three guys hit, rolling for second shot..." I get it done quickly and take it easy when determining who is hit. If a model is debatably under the template, I just let it go. The model is already over powered for cost, I'm not going to aggravate my opponent by piling on and fudging over millimeters.

I've started running a unit of 2 wyverns in my Necron list. Their sole purpose in life is to deal with infantry going to ground behind an ADL or in a ruin - especially the ones who get a 2+ cover for doing so. This thing will make mince meat out of fire warriors just as my wraith units and CCBs are rolling up on their lines which will leave me only a couple of riptides and a unit of broadsides to deal with usually. It's all of the small arms fire coupled with the ethereal that is the bane of my wraiths existence.

Well, they're better than hydras, at any rate.

I find them to be ok. not amazing but ok. useful for model sniping but otherwise wont do that much against anything tougher than a marine.

as for the templates them selves, its gets tedious but if you have a friend or opponent to hold the template it goes by quickly.

Besides you wont be moving much in the movement phase

I should also mention that I used chimeras and a Stormlord for my anti-infantry in the last game I played, with a 30 man blob inside the Stormlord. It worked quite well.

Wyverns are devastating against light infantry, and due to the number of wounds they can inflict, they can even take out heavy infantry. If the hassle of templates is the only thing keeping you from using them, I say go for it!

 daedalus wrote:
Well, they're better than hydras, at any rate.

I still can't fathom why they did what they did to that poor thing...

 Vaktathi wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
Well, they're better than hydras, at any rate.

I still can't fathom why they did what they did to that poor thing...

Despite knowing that they would change the rule that interceptor would no longer allow skyfire units to shoot at ground targets in 7th, GW do not have the forethought to think ahead ONE month and give the hydra the rule it really needed.
Silly really - if for one month the hydra had interceptor in 6th (and squadrons) so it could also target ground targets, quite a few people would have impulse bought it before they nerfed interceptor. Would have made them a fair few quid.

So far I have played 2 tournaments... the Wyvern paid for themselves in every game.

I have decimated a deep striking termie squad with 30 hits and 22 wounds...

I have taken out 10 man marine squads like they are nothing... even have taken out bike squads with them.

Wyvern are not considered huge threats most of the time; therefore, they are able to earn their extremely low 6.5 meltagun points back!

 Vaktathi wrote:

 daedalus wrote:
Well, they're better than hydras, at any rate.

I still can't fathom why they did what they did to that poor thing...

I have two of the FW ones. I"m thinking about cutting the barrels of the cannons off, drilling them out, and calling them "mortars".

The only thing keeping me from doing so is that I keep thinking that they'll fix them.

The Hydras are what I use them as, but if you've put one together, you find that the conversion to one and another takes like.. 30 seconds for all three!

The proliferation of skimmers and Flyers is what makes the Hydras good. They cant explode anything because of their AP, unless it's open topped, but they are still quite capable of Stunning and immobilizing their prey, so i put the Hydra into the Disruption category. Unfortunately against armies that have no flyers nor skimmers... It's a lot of points for nothing. But if your army is already good against other types of vehicles, the heavy bolter, tank walling and tank shocking is a secondary fun use for them and for the points, its definitely no worse than a Rhino really.

The Vyvern though... if you can pop people from transports with regularity the Wyvern is devastating.

Someone said "worthless against anything tougher than a marine". Uh. Got news for you: there arent a ton of those in large numbers in any list. Marines are tough and there's a reason why we measure things against MEQ standards.

clumped, hit 12 times with Prescience? so yeah. Not good.