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Tbf I believe the animosity is because you are spamming the most OP unit in the game in a netlist many have seen and hated before, which requires very little thought or tactics to play THEN asking people to do the mental legwork of telling you how to deploy. All you need to do is pay a butler to roll the dice for you and you have trancended the game.

If you wanted to play with me and then pulled out such a list, I'd say "No, thank you" with a smirk and go away. This isn't the kind of list to bring to friendly games.

This list is stupid and one-dimensional. "Move and shoot at the enemy" is not tactics. If you really want to win some tournaments, then of course it's eligible, but don't pretend it's a good, well-rounded list. It's WAAC spam.

Farseer
9 Windrider Jetbikes
{5 Dire Avengers in Wave Serpent} x6
Wraithknight [url]

Depends. The Jetbikes have a large footprint which makes them vulnerable against blasts.

If you go second, then play refused flank to minimize incoming fire in the first round.

If you go first, play aggressively with Serpents deployed in the centre and Wraithknight close to prevent the enemy from charging the Serpents.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
If you're not interested in advice on the list (since you didn't ask for it after all), it really doesn't matter much how you deploy.
If you face a lot of AV13 or AV14, you're going to lose.
That's basically, why your list is stupid, extremely 1 dimensional.

I posted a revised list with both fire dragons and a Crimson Hunter. Both can take out AV14 and one can take out Fliers. Now the list has anti-infantry, anti-tank, and anti-air fire power.


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 SarisKhan wrote:
If you wanted to play with me and then pulled out such a list, I'd say "No, thank you" with a smirk and go away. This isn't the kind of list to bring to friendly games.

This list is stupid and one-dimensional. "Move and shoot at the enemy" is not tactics. If you really want to win some tournaments, then of course it's eligible, but don't pretend it's a good, well-rounded list. It's WAAC spam.

Did you not see the dictionary definition of tactics I posted? By definition moving and shooting at the enemy is tactics. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tactics?s=t

Excuse
seek to lessen the blame attaching to (a fault or offence); try to justify.
"he did nothing to hide or excuse Jacob's cruelty"
synonyms: justify, defend, make excuses for, make a case for, explain (away), rationalize, condone, vindicate, warrant; More

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

This is in your signature. Can we agree to disagree?

People....please stop all the flame and hate. For all of the time you spend complaining about "OP" or "Spam" lists on here, you could have got another game in. OP was asking a question about deployment for a specific list. None of the crying answers this question. If you dont have anything constructive to say, then dont post. Please....

@OP
As said above, Deployment is largely going to depend on the matchup. Generally speaking, you will want to deploy the Serpents as spread out as possible, keeping them all at max range. You will be more mobile than most other armies, so take advantage of that.

If you run into another Eldar list that is Serpent heavy, and you are going second, consider reserving some of your own Serpents.

Did you have any more specific questions for certain matchups?

 Random Dude wrote:
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

This is in your signature. Can we agree to disagree?

Not really grasping the meaning of that quote are we?

Funny, you're the second user in recent history to quote that back to me without really grasping what it means.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
People....please stop all the flame and hate. For all of the time you spend complaining about "OP" or "Spam" lists on here, you could have got another game in. OP was asking a question about deployment for a specific list. None of the crying answers this question. If you dont have anything constructive to say, then dont post. Please....

@OP
As said above, Deployment is largely going to depend on the matchup. Generally speaking, you will want to deploy the Serpents as spread out as possible, keeping them all at max range. You will be more mobile than most other armies, so take advantage of that.

If you run into another Eldar list that is Serpent heavy, and you are going second, consider reserving some of your own Serpents.

Did you have any more specific questions for certain matchups?

I think the original army list lacked AA and AT so I changed it to this http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/608424.page I wanted a fast moving unit to go with the farseer. Do the jetbikes work?


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 Azreal13 wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

This is in your signature. Can we agree to disagree?

Not really grasping the meaning of that quote are we?

Funny, you're the second user in recent history to quote that back to me without really grasping what it means.

If I make a mistake, I'm fine with someone correcting me. What did you mean by it?

There is one thing adding those units to your list cabg stop... And that's people not playing that dumb list... Plus you still don't have enough to deal with a lot of av14 and air units... Ground units just need to take out your anti air first and quick... Now you're screwed again

Lshowell wrote:
There is one thing adding those units to your list cabg stop... And that's people not playing that dumb list... Plus you still don't have enough to deal with a lot of av14 and air units... Ground units just need to take out your anti air first and quick... Now you're screwed again

It's really not helpful just to say "you're screwed!"

*spelling

You're right.. Which is why I added in why you were screwed

Lshowell wrote:
You're right.. Which is why I added in why you were screwed

?

Did you not read my entire post? The anti air/armor units you have are easily taken out by other choices within the marine codex. They only have to live long enough to do so as well, and once their job is done can die happy... Leaving the av14 and air units intact and ready to kill the rest of your army with ease

Lshowell wrote:
Did you not read my entire post? The anti air/armor units you have are easily taken out by other choices within the marine codex. They only have to live long enough to do so as well, and once their job is done can die happy... Leaving the av14 and air units intact and ready to kill the rest of your army with ease

How many Land Raiders and Stormravens do most SM players have in an 1850 list, maybe one of each? So yes, after they take out the land raider and the stormraven, they will die. But after that what can threaten the rest of the list?


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I could drop the Farseer and Jetbikes and add a Spiritseer and another Wraithknight.

Dont listen to the bad advice people are giving you. 5 Wave Serpents + 1 Crimson Hunter is plenty of AA. Land Raiders have horrible firepower for their point cost. Your Wraithknight can deal with 1 or 2, and if he takes more than 2, you have already won the game because his list is terrible.

Just to give Lshowell the benefit of the doubt, I have seen a Black Templars list with 3 Land Raider Crusaders but no flyers.

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Dont listen to the bad advice people are giving you. 5 Wave Serpents + 1 Crimson Hunter is plenty of AA. Land Raiders have horrible firepower for their point cost. Your Wraithknight can deal with 1 or 2, and if he takes more than 2, you have already won the game because his list is terrible.

Its not horrible advice its constructive criticisn ... And if the other player goes first you can still be screwed. What I'm saying is, wave serpeant spam is over rated and can be dealt with far easier than what most people let on. Since you also like pulling definitions from the dictionary I will not say there are not tactics involved in it, so that you won't whip it out again, I'll say what they meant. An untrained monkey that is three days old could move and deploy wave spam as good as anyone else. Here is your staples instant win again unprepared lists button, and here is a I hope people will even play this dumb lost I built card, have a nice day

I'd still advise dropping the far seer for a stock spirit seer and the jet bikes for another fire dragon in serpent group.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Tbf I believe the animosity is because you are spamming the most OP unit in the game in a netlist many have seen and hated before, which requires very little thought or tactics to play THEN asking people to do the mental legwork of telling you how to deploy. All you need to do is pay a butler to roll the dice for you and you have trancended the game.

^This.

Let's also add in the fact that, apart from deploying with your Wave Serpent's rear armor facing the enemy, there isn't a "crippling" way to deploy an army that can zip around the battlefield and fire it's guns at extreme distances. Needing clarification on how to most efficiently deploy one of the most annoyingly efficient lists the most annoyingly efficient army can field may just be the cherry on top of this annoyingly unnecessary thread topic.

To be fair, none of the above means the OP is a bad guy. He's just done the math and sees a strong list that will yield a lot of wins...nothing wrong with that. I agree with many folks that serpent spam is an unfortunate list to run into during a Saturday afternoon "friendly", but it's also fun, as an opponent, to build a list and see how it works against such harrowing and mobile firepower.

In the end...my take would be that serpent spam is only a problem if it's the only list a person has. If it's the only army one brings to the table...people WILL eventually avoid playing that person, unless, of course, they were specifically planning on trying to beat it.

 Random Dude wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

This is in your signature. Can we agree to disagree?

Not really grasping the meaning of that quote are we?

Funny, you're the second user in recent history to quote that back to me without really grasping what it means.

If I make a mistake, I'm fine with someone correcting me. What did you mean by it?

Sure, I'll just requote the post I already wrote a few weeks ago...

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Lobomalo wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Then I think you've misunderstood my signature, and you've definitely misunderstood my intent behind the pic if you think I'm accusing you of complaining about anything

I'm also interested how you feel comfortable commenting on my actions in 5k+ posts over 3 years when you've been here barely a week.

It's almost like you've been here before....

Recent post history is more than enough tbh.

I may have misunderstood your pic, and if so then I apologize for that.

Your signature, I like it because it's true. Except you've shown to be more argumentative to those who disagree with you in your post history, especially in YMDC

Exactly.

What my quote is saying is that we grow by interacting with people who hold different opinions to us, as they will cause us to look at what we think and examine it, and sometimes rethink it, while only hanging around with those who think the same as us may be comforting, doesn't really help us develop. You appear to have missed that, or at least inserted your own extra requirement of agreeing with those who we disagree with or something?

Interesting that you cite my "recent post history" and my participation in YMDC, a section I don't often bother with, with the exception of a brief foray a week or two ago.

Well Zodiark, I mean, Lobomalo, I guess you really can judge me by a limited amount of knowledge across an anonymous Internet discussion forum.

You got me, I'll stop posting in light of your amazing super powers.

Or not.

Lshowell wrote:

 extremefreak17 wrote:
Dont listen to the bad advice people are giving you. 5 Wave Serpents + 1 Crimson Hunter is plenty of AA. Land Raiders have horrible firepower for their point cost. Your Wraithknight can deal with 1 or 2, and if he takes more than 2, you have already won the game because his list is terrible.

Its not horrible advice its constructive criticisn ... And if the other player goes first you can still be screwed. What I'm saying is, wave serpeant spam is over rated and can be dealt with far easier than what most people let on. Since you also like pulling definitions from the dictionary I will not say there are not tactics involved in it, so that you won't whip it out again, I'll say what they meant. An untrained monkey that is three days old could move and deploy wave spam as good as anyone else. Here is your staples instant win again unprepared lists button, and here is a I hope people will even play this dumb lost I built card, have a nice day

Its hard for you advice to be considered contructive when: A) It doesn't even attempt to answer the the question presented in the OP. B) It is flat out wrong. C) Is backed up by nothing more than generous amounts of flame and hate.

Very few lists are actually "instant win buttons" and I am sorry you feel that way. Giving the excuse of "not being prepared" is just another way of admitting that you wrote a sub-par list.

@OP
Your list would handle the Black Templar list with ease. You would just need to keep the serpents spread out and away until you pop the LRs with your Warithknight, Crimson Hunter, and Fire Dragons. The problem with taking so much AV 14 is that you end up putting half your army points into 3 Models, each with a potential chance at being one-shotted.

 Random Dude wrote:

Lshowell wrote:
Did you not read my entire post? The anti air/armor units you have are easily taken out by other choices within the marine codex. They only have to live long enough to do so as well, and once their job is done can die happy... Leaving the av14 and air units intact and ready to kill the rest of your army with ease

How many Land Raiders and Stormravens do most SM players have in an 1850 list, maybe one of each? So yes, after they take out the land raider and the stormraven, they will die. But after that what can threaten the rest of the list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I could drop the Farseer and Jetbikes and add a Spiritseer and another Wraithknight.

I've been fairly successful in promoting the use of multiple buildings. 225 points gets you a strong point, 3 bastions and a defense line. That's 3 AV14 buildings, and a fist full of heavy bolters.
Alternatively, you can get 3 bunkers and 2 walls out of the wall of the martyrs defense network, again, 3 AV14 buildings.
With 3 buildings, I could place buildings on all 3 of my objectives, and then just gun for wraith knight... you know, the single model that has a prayer against AV14. Then I've got 3 unkillable buildings each camped on objects, with objective secured. You can't contest it unless you come into assault range, with serps really don't want to do with dire avengers.

If you go from 6 serps to 4, you can add a 2nd wraith knight, a crimson hunter, and then upgrade 3 of the remaining 4 squads to be better (fire dragons, wraithguard d-scythes, and storm guardians with flamers).


So, to your question of how to deploy your spam; set up to limit fire coming out you, and at longer range. Move to stay out of assault range. Exact placement will depend on terrain and your opponent.
Hope that you fight "paper", since your list is "Scissors". Expect a loss if anyone runs "Rock", and hope for a draw against any list with a small investment in heavy armor/flyers (cue necrons).

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

Lshowell wrote:
Did you not read my entire post? The anti air/armor units you have are easily taken out by other choices within the marine codex. They only have to live long enough to do so as well, and once their job is done can die happy... Leaving the av14 and air units intact and ready to kill the rest of your army with ease

How many Land Raiders and Stormravens do most SM players have in an 1850 list, maybe one of each? So yes, after they take out the land raider and the stormraven, they will die. But after that what can threaten the rest of the list?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I could drop the Farseer and Jetbikes and add a Spiritseer and another Wraithknight.

I've been fairly successful in promoting the use of multiple buildings. 225 points gets you a strong point, 3 bastions and a defense line. That's 3 AV14 buildings, and a fist full of heavy bolters.
Alternatively, you can get 3 bunkers and 2 walls out of the wall of the martyrs defense network, again, 3 AV14 buildings.
With 3 buildings, I could place buildings on all 3 of my objectives, and then just gun for wraith knight... you know, the single model that has a prayer against AV14. Then I've got 3 unkillable buildings each camped on objects, with objective secured. You can't contest it unless you come into assault range, with serps really don't want to do with dire avengers.

If you go from 6 serps to 4, you can add a 2nd wraith knight, a crimson hunter, and then upgrade 3 of the remaining 4 squads to be better (fire dragons, wraithguard d-scythes, and storm guardians with flamers).


So, to your question of how to deploy your spam; set up to limit fire coming out you, and at longer range. Move to stay out of assault range. Exact placement will depend on terrain and your opponent.
Hope that you fight "paper", since your list is "Scissors". Expect a loss if anyone runs "Rock", and hope for a draw against any list with a small investment in heavy armor/flyers (cue necrons).

-Matt

Just FYI
In the revised list he posted, there is 4 DAVU Serpents, 1 Fragon Serpent, 1 Crimson Hunter, and 1 WK.

And if you fight vs khorne dog spam with heralds just leave, that is the biggest counter, so many dogs...

 Voidwraith wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Tbf I believe the animosity is because you are spamming the most OP unit in the game in a netlist many have seen and hated before, which requires very little thought or tactics to play THEN asking people to do the mental legwork of telling you how to deploy. All you need to do is pay a butler to roll the dice for you and you have trancended the game.

^This.

Let's also add in the fact that, apart from deploying with your Wave Serpent's rear armor facing the enemy, there isn't a "crippling" way to deploy an army that can zip around the battlefield and fire it's guns at extreme distances. Needing clarification on how to most efficiently deploy one of the most annoyingly efficient lists the most annoyingly efficient army can field may just be the cherry on top of this annoyingly unnecessary thread topic.

Not entirely ture. Spreading out is pretty important with this type of list. If you were to deploy castled up in the corner, It would be fairly easy to get penned in, and assualted, by White Scars, Nids, Orks, DE Haywire Wych Spam, etc.

Don't forget the two bright lances on the Crimson Hunter making AV14 go down to AV12.

Wow. So much unnecessary flame in this chain. A shame. The guy says he is a newb to Eldar and is wondering about how to deploy a bunch of the best units in the game if he based his list around them. And he gets this wave of passive aggression and negative bile. Makes me kind of sad. If you don't have anything constructive to say, don't say it at all.

As some people have hinted your biggest weakness is certainly going to include Necron mech lists. I'd say be aware of your range advantages. And be aware of target priority early on. Pretty much everything in the Necron army is 24" range. So think who is shooting first in turn one and make sure that you can shoot him on your turn (whoever goes first) and that s/he can't shoot you. Should be possible. Target priority: ghost arcs first and A barges second. More so the more troops he has in his arks. The at Arks can hurt you pretty bad anyway with gauss and they and their 24" shooting contents are objective secured.

Two Farseers in an Eldar list is great for buffing - ignoring cover, twin linking Wraithknights is very useful against mech. Remember Necron mech is open topped so your wraithknight is +3 to the damage table. Good luck and happy gaming.

I can understand a new player to 40k wanting to ask this question. Just play games and you will learn what works.

Having played against serpent spam myself I can understand the negative reactions - wave serpents lists are stupidly simple yet brutally effective. I dunno, if someone is that desperate to win games let them run it.

Personally I think list building is one of the really interesting parts of 40k. Creating unique yet hopefully effective lists forces you to consider and learn how various units in a codex can function together in a coordinated way. By running a serpent spam list one is losing that part of the hobby.

But hey, each to their own.

i had a serpent spam list, i say spam it ran only 4 msu DA serpents, and other things. i played 3 games with it, and traded it here on dakka. i try to play comparatively, and enjoy min maxed list games, but that was the only time in 16 years of gaming that my opponents said the game was no fun, they were brutal tableings.

its a good list, the serpents are very strong. you'll have alot of success, just don't expect alot of close or "narrative forging games"

its your money, your 40k, have fun and play what you want to.