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 Bludbaff wrote:
The worst 40k army is one whose player throws up their hands and whines rather than experimenting to see the possibilities of a new codex.

Indeed - experiment first, then come back and whine properly.

Here's my "experiment." smarty pants.


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I have models that GW doesn't even produce...
how about a biker painboy...

Why several people have mentioned DE? I'm aware the change to Vehicle damage table hurt us more than it helped, but from what I gather a very mobile army with considerable firepower excels at the Maelstrom of War missions. Sprinkle some Eldar allies and the DE really should be able to show up at tournaments and expect to win a few games.

 SarisKhan wrote:
Why several people have mentioned DE? I'm aware the change to Vehicle damage table hurt us more than it helped, but from what I gather a very mobile army with considerable firepower excels at the Maelstrom of War missions. Sprinkle some Eldar allies and the DE really should be able to show up at tournaments and expect to win a few games.

I'm rating the books by their own merits - not by what they can do with allies.

As far as I'm concerned, allies should not be needed to make a book viable.

 doktor_g wrote:
Orks highest rank at BAO was 52nd... Coincidence?
Torrent of Fire said 'nids are dead center of the pack. Blood Angels still lack a codex. They'll feel the love soon.

Orks... With low Av, open topped transports, they are made of explodium. Thats about a 45% kill rate in the explosion. Then da Boyz are no longer immune to pinning fail that and another d6ish die there. Then that's your 25% in the shooting phase so let's just kill off another d6. Orks will stay at the bottom. Regarding the cheap guns... Try to keep those guys on the table after a morale check... Ld 5.

I have a few problems with that graph. Firstly it doesn't have SOB, DA, SW, DE, GK, Demons, IK, or inquisition. That is A LOT of armies missing, some of them 'major' armies.
Secondly it doesn't have a year - by looking at the fact it still lists 'imperial guard' that would suggest it is not recent. Both AM and Orks have had recent new dexes which makes a huge difference.
Thirdly it doesn't state the size of the sample pool.

The worst one is the one that has the worst luck with the dice and having the wrong units on the table so they are unable to deal with what the enemy brings.

This year. Not my graph. Go to Torrent of Fire. The armies you mentioned were removed because their numerical power (sample size) was too small and was removed for clarity. IIRC.

 vipoid wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:
Why several people have mentioned DE? I'm aware the change to Vehicle damage table hurt us more than it helped, but from what I gather a very mobile army with considerable firepower excels at the Maelstrom of War missions. Sprinkle some Eldar allies and the DE really should be able to show up at tournaments and expect to win a few games.

I'm rating the books by their own merits - not by what they can do with allies.

As far as I'm concerned, allies should not be needed to make a book viable.

You do have a point. They aren't as strong without allies, but one of the worst? That's a bit harsh, IMHO.

 SarisKhan wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:
Why several people have mentioned DE? I'm aware the change to Vehicle damage table hurt us more than it helped, but from what I gather a very mobile army with considerable firepower excels at the Maelstrom of War missions. Sprinkle some Eldar allies and the DE really should be able to show up at tournaments and expect to win a few games.

I'm rating the books by their own merits - not by what they can do with allies.

As far as I'm concerned, allies should not be needed to make a book viable.

You do have a point. They aren't as strong without allies, but one of the worst? That's a bit harsh, IMHO.

That is a bit harsh on dark eldar. I've seen them do very well, especially with maelstrom. They may be weaker in certain non-maelstrom missions, but maelstrom is often quite different from the normal missions. It's one of the reasons I like Maelstrom; it's more chaotic, but it gives a lot more options to armies that might not typically succeed in more convential missions.

I agree that DE are hard pressed in Eternal War missions, where survivability is a major factor. However, they perform well in Maelstrom, where mobility is much more important. I'd say they're a middle-tier army on their own, far from the bottom.

I was thinking MTS since they have only 5 different units, so they ability to make an army that can take most things on the tabletop with reasonable success is totally borked. But OP says Orks so I guess he's right.

i forgot about DE lol. I think that army needs a complete rework in order to function without making their gameplay backass backwards to the fluff.

Something along the lines of their vehicles should be VERY hard to hit if they move X distance (say, 8+) by forcing snaps, since theyre fluff indicates they prize speed and agility over durability. Right now they have speed, but nothing to prevent them from dying the moment they show their face. That 5++ their vehicles have is pretty garbage, even before Jink went to a 4+ cover.

Poly Ranger wrote:

 doktor_g wrote:
Orks highest rank at BAO was 52nd... Coincidence?
Torrent of Fire said 'nids are dead center of the pack. Blood Angels still lack a codex. They'll feel the love soon.

Orks... With low Av, open topped transports, they are made of explodium. Thats about a 45% kill rate in the explosion. Then da Boyz are no longer immune to pinning fail that and another d6ish die there. Then that's your 25% in the shooting phase so let's just kill off another d6. Orks will stay at the bottom. Regarding the cheap guns... Try to keep those guys on the table after a morale check... Ld 5.

I have a few problems with that graph. Firstly it doesn't have SOB, DA, SW, DE, GK, Demons, IK, or inquisition. That is A LOT of armies missing, some of them 'major' armies.
Secondly it doesn't have a year - by looking at the fact it still lists 'imperial guard' that would suggest it is not recent. Both AM and Orks have had recent new dexes which makes a huge difference.
Thirdly it doesn't state the size of the sample pool.

Thats because its a part of a larger article from this years BAO (which was a few weeks ago). That actually answers all of your problems with it.

Heres the whole article http://www.torrentoffire.com/5416/bay-area-open-inside-the-numbers

Grey Knights. They have dumb lumpy faces and only fight teenage girls and imaginary monsters.


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Also Tau, they have dumber lumpier faces and can't take a punch, but at least they aren't misogynist inbreds.


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But mostly Grey Knights

How can we have a discussion with merit when the OP has given us one option for the worst army?

jakl277 wrote:
..Grey Knights are...pretty strong? I think so at least despite not having an update.

Worst army? I'd have to go with either blood angels or sisters.

I'll agree with GKs still being strong, I've got a GK army and I STILL think BAs and DE should proably get their new codexes fitst

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i forgot about DE lol. I think that army needs a complete rework in order to function without making their gameplay backass backwards to the fluff.
Something along the lines of their vehicles should be VERY hard to hit if they move X distance (say, 8+) by forcing snaps, since theyre fluff indicates they prize speed and agility over durability. Right now they have speed, but nothing to prevent them from dying the moment they show their face. That 5++ their vehicles have is pretty garbage, even before Jink went to a 4+ cover.

This is what I'm finding. I've got 3 options to compete.
1) Run Codex Beast Pack.
2) Run codex eldar, with a few token units of dark eldar.
3) Lose games.

Any army with ignore cover shooting tears them apart.
That's now Tau, AM (IG), Chaos Marines, Space Marines. That's a big chunk of the armies or allies I see.

The poll was a joke that I thought was funny. I was hoping I could make a one option poll, but couldn't. Not sure BA is that particularly bad as I got beat by them in my last tourney. GK are great IMO. Watching Skared Cast Battle Reports, I think Skari is kind of a ringer/ace at DE. He's been being handled lately by his opponents, but our doubles tourney came down DE and Tau on top. In retrospect, it was probably due to the Tau.... And more a reflection on them than DE. Tyranids are doing OK. Adeptus Sororitas can't be competitive or we'd see them popping up. Someone above mentioned MTS, but I'm not certain who they are talking about... Militarum Tempestus? I hope they suck, because that Grey Knight player just bought them and he beats me like a rented mule.

The Orks I think have the ability to excell at the Maelstrom missions, but the Eternal War ones will continue to be mostly beyond our reach.

My main issue with the codex, is that the most substantial change (Mob Rule) was a kind of a kick in the pants to mech Orks. There are great buffs, admittedly. Painboy ICs. 'ard Boyz for everyone! Cheaper buggies and Free rokkits for the poor! Those are awesome. But everything is purchased at a premium. But our troop choice (of choice) was increased in price. Lootas moved to heavy. Kans nerfed and more expensive. KFF nerf/buff (a wash).

i play the greentide, and have since the formation came out. it's amazing, i have alot of fun, and I'm winning all of my games so far. the ghaz book goes a long way in making the codex very playable.l

niv-mizzet wrote:
BA player here. Update my codex please. And don't screw it up.

Ditto. We were the worst pre-7th. Now that we lost our book powers we lost many of the "fun" gimmicks to army that offered seriously needed assistance in viability and a lot of what made playing that gakky dex worthwhile. RiP Mephiston, once the Lord of Death, now the Lord of Dick

BaalSNAFU wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:
BA player here. Update my codex please. And don't screw it up.

Ditto. We were the worst pre-7th. Now that we lost our osychic.powers we lost many of the "fun" gimmicks to army that offered seriously needed assistance in viability and a lot of what made playing that gakky dex worthwhile. RiP Mephiston.

Haven't most people resorted to running their BA with the SM codex? I know it's not a good situation, but it's workable.

Then one must ask are they even BA anymore? No fluff, no Chapter Unique rules or tactics, no playable characters. People shelving their BA dexes and running them as red space marinesdoes not a better ssituation for BA make IMO

BaalSNAFU wrote:
Then one must ask are they even BA anymore? No fluff, no Chapter Unique rules or tactics, no playable characters. People shelving their BA dexes and running them as red space marinesdoes not a better ssituation for BA make IMO

That's why I said "I know it's not a good situation".

It's the Sisters of battle by a landslide. They don't even get a real codex. They have a tiny pool of miniatures and there rules were terribly written. Add in that the miniatures are overpriced and metals and you' can see that they're the worst off.

I'm torn between Blood Angels and Sisters of Battle.

My gut says Blood Angels though. Sisters of Battle at the least aren't gimped in the sense that their entire playstyle hasn't repeatedly been fethed by edition changes basically hating them for even existing. Blood Angels are a melee-oriented army in two editions that don't like melee combat, but unlike other melee armies like Orks (though Orks have great dakka) they pay out the nose for their melee prowess. Their units are all ridiculously overpriced for what they bring to the table in today's 40K environment.

I'd say Tyranids for the updated armies. Essentially for the reasons listed before - one list, "bad" units and prices, etc. The gradual changes from losing eternal warrior on synapse to now instinctive behavior possible wounding your own unit.

I do agree with many posters that BA are overpriced though. I was looking into doing a 'Black Rage' themed army but wow. Supposedly they're around the next bend or so, while nids got a book fairly recently - so in a year's time we'll see.

The only viable BA list as far as I'm concerned is Dread spam. Namely because the Death Company Dreads score and have objective secured so throw them in a drop pod and they are funny to watch kill everything.

The worst 40k army? This thread and the pointless "poll options".

This thread is a 40K army?

Your post makes no sense.

Didn't BAO not use the new Ork codex?