What is the worst 40k Army?

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**doktor_g**

What do YOU think?

**curran12**

Someone not enjoying their codex?

**Happyjew**

Tyranids.

Every chance GW has to nerf them hard, they take.

**Kangodo**

http://www.torrentoffire.com/5416/bay-area-open-inside-the-numbers

Blood Angels.

**Zach**

Happyjew wrote:
Tyranids.

Every chance GW has to nerf them hard, they take.

Well...80% of the nid codex, yes, but you can make a lot out of that 20%.

But I agree with your statement.

**Happyjew**

Iechine wrote:
Happyjew wrote:
Tyranids.

Every chance GW has to nerf them hard, they take.

Well...80% of the nid codex, yes, but you can make a lot out of that 20%.

But I agree with your statement.

To be fair, there isn't much I hate about the current codex.

The 2 big things - Psychic Disciplines, no Pod for massed DS.

**SharkoutofWata**

Iechine wrote:
Happyjew wrote:
Tyranids.

Every chance GW has to nerf them hard, they take.

Well...80% of the nid codex, yes, but you can make a lot out of that 20%.

But I agree with your statement.

Tyranids used to be the most versatile race there was. Like Genestealers but find em too squishy? Take Extended Carapace for an Armor Save buff. Like Tyrants but think they're too weak when in CC, take toxin sacs for a S buff. Like Carnifex but want them to shoot better? Take Enhanced Senses for a BS buff. All that is gone and now a Tyranid army is nothing but Flyrants, Dakkafex and Tervigons with big broods. There is no variety anymore because we only have 20% of the codex left to use at any level of competitive or even 'want to win occassionally' builds. So Tyranids. Tyranids get the vote as worst army now. The competitive list might be great, but there's no variety anymore and that's what Nids used to be.

**Bucsfan57**

Based on the BAO numbers I would say the bottom three armoires currently in this order are, Orks. Astra Militarium, and blood angels

**SBG**

All I want is for Lictors to work properly.

**flaming tadpole**

Orks are never the worst army even when they are the worst army o_O

**Hashbeth**

I'd say Blood Angels.

They're an awesome army, but currently they're assaulty marines, who aren't as good at it as some codex space marine armies currently.

Really they're just too expensive for what they do, and they don't feel as special as they used to (with some assault focused other marine armies). Imo.

**Poly Ranger**

Have you read the new ork codex?

5 kannons with 5 ammo runts for 105pts. That is 20 st7 wounds, you can buy upto 10 more t7 wounds for 3pts each. 5 bs3 st8 ap3 shots a turn with a reroll each (so 75% accuracy).

5 lobbas with ammo runts for 105pts. Again the same with t and wounds. 5 st5 barrage blasts with 56% chance of a direct hit. Scatter reduced by 3".

Traktor cannons, against flyers - wow.

Warbuggies with twin linked rokkit launcher (56% accuracy) for 25pts! With the option to outflank! That is a fast av10 platform with a st8 ap3 gun which is better than ballistic skill 3 and the outflank usr for a point cheaper than 2 necron warriors/CSM etc.

Deffkoptas which fill the same roll as warbuggies but have a t value instead and the assault ability and scout.

MANz missile. 150ish depending on upgrades points to cause a massive distraction to opponents that is not easy to shift!

Basic troops which are 6pts for t4, and 4 st4 attacks on the charge. They also are tough to get rid of in large numbers.

Even cheaper objective holders for a mere 35pts (grots) which the opponent HAS to waste shooting on to stop them scoring easy VPs.

A warbosses stats (and a warlord trait to boot) for 60pts. That is amazing.

Painboyz giving huge squads fnp.

Nob biker star terrifying opponents. Or the even cheaper option of a normal bike unit with nob + warboss + painboy.

A stompa IN THE CODEX! Not in some 'apocolypse', 'escalation' or 'forgeworld' book that some people don't like.

There are some units whoch are average in comparison to all the above but still worth taking such as lootas and tankbustas.

Yeh there is some tripe such as bubble chuckas, morka/gaukanaughts, in fact all the walkers and a few other units. But the majority is pretty good now. Not top dex but most certainly not bottom!

Automatically Appended Next Post:
The old ork dex was weak and previous tournament results will reflect that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
My vote would go with BA, DA and Tyranids.

**Vineheart01**

what is with these influxes of "orks suck" threads lately?

i dont even think i heard this much "the army as a whole sucks" about Tyranids in the slightest, and they are by far worse off than orks. Least orks still function, i win a majority of my games with them with almost none of them being total stomps, so they were fun and challenging.

To the tyranids 20% of the codex comment. That makes the codex bad in my opinion. Theres literally ONE list for tyranids that actually works and has a chance if your opponent isnt a deadbeat moron, and i dont know about you but i for one hate mono-list races. This is why old-dex orks pissed me off, it was field Nob Bikers and crush my opponent or dont use them and lose by turn3. I got bored of using the same damn thing every time.

Orks literally only have 1.5 totally useless units. Burnas are total gak like usual thanks to the "out of range" nerf in 6th and Deffdredds are the .5 since they are still feasible, just not ideal. Every other unit...repeat...EVERY other unit can be used if you build the list properly. I love the idea i can field any unit provided i think about what its going to do, it allows me to have a very different game every time.

**jifel**

Vineheart01 wrote:

i dont even think i heard this much "the army as a whole sucks" about Tyranids in the slightest, and they are by far worse off than orks. Least orks still function, i win a majority of my games with them with almost none of them being total stomps, so they were fun and challenging.

To the tyranids 20% of the codex comment. That makes the codex bad in my opinion. Theres literally ONE list for tyranids that actually works and has a chance if your opponent isnt a deadbeat moron, and i dont know about you but i for one hate mono-list races. This is why old-dex orks pissed me off, it was field Nob Bikers and crush my opponent or dont use them and lose by turn3. I got bored of using the same damn thing every time.

There are quite a few lists for Tyranids that do well. Most of the people that say Tyranids suck haven't played an experienced Tyranid player, they just look at individual units. That's just not how Tyranids work, it's all about the support and the army as a whole. Also, I have to disagree with the "dead beat moron" comment, there are plenty of instances of Tyranids doing pretty well in top GTs. Have they won them? No. But so far that's pretty much been space marines winning, so plenty of armies are left out.

The Tyranid codex is as because many of it's units and features don't work at all how they should, but that doesn't make the army bad. It's a huge distinction, because a properly built Tyranid army is scary as heck.

Back to the OP, Orks are not even close to the worst army. That has to be Blood Angels because of how much better SM are. Orks are mid tier at least, maybe higher.

**Bass Cherokee**

Dark Eldar? They're so wishy washy. If you muck it up once, you're done and you can call it game. If everything goes to plan, you can table your opponent.
I haven't had a chance to play against Orks or Nids, so I wouldn't know, but I think the fact that our local Nid player reverted back to the marines he used when he started the hobby means something.

**Solosam47**

people can stop crying over orks now, they got their update. now BA are the weakest, cant say any codex is the worst as half the battle is who is playing them

**Jayden63**

Any codex can produce a "worst" army. You just have to focus on the crap units and bloat them all to heck with useless and unnecessary wargear.

**jreilly89**

Sisters of Battle, due to no support from GW. In all seriousness, I would argue BA or DA, as they get no access to the shiny stuff SM gets, and even then I would argue DA beat out BA.

**Celtic Strike**

Sisters and probably BA, my two main armies

**HawaiiMatt**

My army is the weakest.
I've got Dark Eldar, Grey Knights and Blood Angels.
Yeah, I'm a trio of "please update me."

I'm considering doing an unbound of all three, just because.

-Matt

**jakl277**

..Grey Knights are...pretty strong? I think so at least despite not having an update.

Worst army? I'd have to go with either blood angels or sisters.

**niv-mizzet**

BA player here. Update my codex please. And don't screw it up.

**wuestenfux**

Need more armies to choose from.

**Paradigm**

I think Blood Angels are currently worst off, simply by dint of the codex cycle. Every unit is about 10% overcosted compared to its C:SM/DA equivalents. Bring their costs in line with the newer SM codexes and fix their special characters (most of which were hit with harsh Init/AP penalties with the weapon changes between 5th and 6th), and then you've got a decent codex. Until then, they're probably the least effective army.

Other than that, I'm not sure. Even the 'bad' (read: internet speak for 'not the absolute best') codexes are more than capable of holding up against the competition. Pretty much everything except Triptide Tau, Serpent Eldar and Summoning/Screamerstar Demons are pretty much balanced.

**vipoid**

Are we talking 'worst' in terms of pure competitiveness?

e.g. I think the tyranid codex was written by a team of drunkards, but it's still a reasonably strong codex (just not a very interesting one).

If it's pure competitiveness, I'd say:

- SoB - because GW seems to despise them and anyone who plays them. They're only marginally cheaper than marines, yet worse in virtually every way (although, marines were probably made too cheap in 6th, so that didn't help either). Their HQs are pretty abysmal, as are several of their squads (and it's not like they're overloaded with options). Powers of faith basically stayed the same but become one use per game (even when it crippled the squad), and they have just one troop choice. Oh, and to make things even more fun, they're all metal - so enjoy playing an inflated price for a terrible army. I guess it's your own fault for not playing space marines. Shame on you.

- DE - Not as bad as the above, but I think they're really starting to suffer in this edition. The changes to vehicle damage basically crippled their only ranged anti-tank. And, unlike most other armies, they don't have any hull point-stripping weapons to fall back on. And, whilst jinking helps to some degree, their own vehicles are still pretty vulnerable.

Also, they're just one of those armies that has been hit by progressive nerfs. Their combat units are now virtually unusable, their selection of special weapons is tiny, and filled with worthless, overcosted crap. You could remove their wargear pages and they probably wouldn't notice. Also, 4+ poisoned weapons aren't nearly as useful/powerful as GW thinks to think.

- CSM - Not awful, but suffer similar problems as tyranids in that their book just isn't very interesting, has terrible internal balance (external isn't much better), and a lot of units that are either outright bad, or just worse than a competing unit.

**doktor_g**

Orks highest rank at BAO was 52nd... Coincidence?
Torrent of Fire said 'nids are dead center of the pack. Blood Angels still lack a codex. They'll feel the love soon.

Orks... With low Av, open topped transports, they are made of explodium. Thats about a 45% kill rate in the explosion. Then da Boyz are no longer immune to pinning fail that and another d6ish die there. Then that's your 25% in the shooting phase so let's just kill off another d6. Orks will stay at the bottom. Regarding the cheap guns... Try to keep those guys on the table after a morale check... Ld 5.

**vipoid**

Where are DE, Daemons, DAs, SoB etc.?

Are they so bad that they've fallen off the map entirely?

Actually, come to think of it, what the heck is that graph supposed to be showing? There are no labels on either axis - just a lot of meaningless percentages and months.

**Grimskul**

Yeah, I don't quite get this bias against Orks from the OP, I've played them in 7th ed. against the new Guard book, CSM, Daemons and annoying Necrons with their Tesla and Wraiths. So far I have to say they have done pretty damn well. The addition of 'Ere We Go! and the change to WAAAGH! allow us to get stuck in that much faster and reliably compared to our previous book and Mob Rule now actually makes a good difference on the units like MegaNobz who never managed to get anything out of it. Also the Mek Gunz are cheap as heck and if you're playing them right the Ld 5 won't be an issue to begin with (i.e. Lobbas shouldn't be in line of sight and for guns like KMK being T7 with multiple models is a lot harder to hurt than it looks, especially if you're in cover). Plus if they really waste time shooting at a measly portion of your army then you've already diverted firepower from your more immediate threats and gained an advantage. Furthermore, you can always attach a 15 point Ld7 Mek to the unit if you really are that paranoid about leadership tests. Have you actually played Orks? Or tried different builds? It really seems like you phoned it in without trying to make it work.

**doktor_g**

The armies mentioned had limited number of players I think, so data is unreliable. The chart is from torrent of fire and I believe is %wins per month.

That kid said GKs were weak?! Ugh. They're OP in my local meta....

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I play Orks.... Nearly exclusively. Check my gallery if you doubt my experience w different Ork builds.

Pin the grots. One Wave Serpent knocks them out for a turn. An FMC or MC will make them book.

**Bludbaff**

The worst 40k army is one whose player throws up their hands and whines rather than experimenting to see the possibilities of a new codex. So if you play Orks, I can see why you think they're bad.