Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:


Hey, if you decide to like fluff written for 13 year olds by a 13 year old (stuck in the body of a middle-aged man), that's totally fine with me - your language, however, isn't :( Typical for NewCrons? Maybe.

If you want to take part in a fluff discussion, however, I would greatly appreciate if you would read up on both NewCron and TruCron fluff. Your comment on the aforementioned charges being the only changes suggests that you did not do so yet.

Sugar, I've been a Necron player since 1998. I've read oldcron fluff you've probably never even heard of. I've read all of it. Everything from the snippets dribbled out in White Dwarf, the original introduction in WD216, both codices, Faith and Fire, Fall of Orpheus. All of it. Back to front.

Get off your high horse. You're wrong, and you're wrong for the sake of sounding trendy and cool. As for reasoned discussion, I already tried that in a thread a few weeks ago and you refused to listen then, instead clinging to your desire to talk about how awful the new stuff is without really even beginning to comprehend it. So no, I won't "go and read up on it". I know far more than you do.

The awakening of the personality-laden Necron overlords was being prepared and laid down since the third edition Eldar codex release.

Interesting, "sugar" - instead of admitting your mistake and reading up on the TruCron fluff, which would be the correct thing to do here, you go full ad hominem and try to play the age card. Mature!

I didn't know fluff debates could get this heated. Thanks for the entertainment, guys!

 Random Dude wrote:


I didn't know fluff debates could get this heated. Thanks for the entertainment, guys!

2011 was a sad year as it split the Necron player community in two parts:

- TruCrons who are disgusted by the lies of the Imperium of Man, making up stories to calm their crying children, fearing the C'tan and their minions and

- NewCrons who prefer cuddly lies, like shiny stuff and prefer ridiculously overblown Ward Fluff (tm) with loopholes big enough to drive a Megalith through.

2011 - never forget.

One: I'm a woman.

Two: You fail at reading.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
One: I'm a woman.

Two: You fail at reading.

Is this aimed at me?

 Random Dude wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
One: I'm a woman.

Two: You fail at reading.

Is this aimed at me?

Nah man, they're just having a measuring contest between their "Doomscythes", if you catch my drift

No more you two, just walk away from the thread before you have your hands slapped away from the keyboard.

 Sigvatr wrote:
40k wiki is a great place to quickly re-read stuff you might have forgotten.

Nothing to do with the Oldcron/Newcron fluff, but getting information from the 40K wiki is the worst thing anyone can do. I have seen so many blatant falsehoods posted as fact there that nobody should rely on it as a source of information. Lexicanium is the more accurate online encyclopedia for us plastic dudemen nerds to utilize.

This has been a public service announcement.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
One: I'm a woman.

Two: You fail at reading.

Is this aimed at me?

Nah man, they're just having a measuring contest between their "Doomscythes", if you catch my drift

Pretty sure you meant Doomsday Arks as they are more phallic. Still...I raise my glass, good sir.

NO-crons. Least interesting faction for me.

I like Newcron fluff , Newcrons who can think for themselves ,

-- with oldcron figures

While I think I'm more of a fan of the invulnerable, inumerable space terminators from planet X that the Oldcrons were, I have to say, FW"s Orpheus book was god damn amazing.

Also, the Wikia for 40k is better than Lexicanum I've found, but there's little substitute for reading the actual codex's and novels.

Though I'm a fan of the doom and gloom of the oldcron codex, I like the newcron codex more. I feel there's more potential.

I think the new C'tan are incredibly tragic. The idea that the Necrons murdered, not only most life in the galaxy, but there own gods as well is a very depressing one.

Also, the sharing of the webway with the Eldar helps reinforce an Eldar vs Necrons story line. The idea of this ancient war between these two incredibly old races is an intriguing one.

At face value the newcron codex looks like garbage, but there are a few jewels hidden in there.

 Mr Nobody wrote:


At face value the newcron codex looks like garbage, but there are a few jewels hidden in there.

The best part are the Necron gardeners who can destroy an entire solar system just because.

Matt Ward at his best!

Seriously, I envy that guy. He is absolute trash at his job and still did not get fired. Amazing.

Frankenberry wrote:
Also, the Wikia for 40k is better than Lexicanum I've found, but there's little substitute for reading the actual codex's and novels.

What?

The 40K Wiki reports fan-fiction as fact.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Mr Nobody wrote:


At face value the newcron codex looks like garbage, but there are a few jewels hidden in there.

The best part are the Necron gardeners who can destroy an entire solar system just because.

Matt Ward at his best!

Seriously, I envy that guy. He is absolute trash at his job and still did not get fired. Amazing.

Right now, that's pretty much par for the course with GW.

I preferred when the was more mystery to the Necrons. There were hints at things to come, and a lack of true understanding from any other race in the galaxy. That, and it was just more grim. They were very definitely the bad guys in a world of grey - all we did know was that they were out for blood.

Now we have robot Eldar, TKs in Spaaaaaaaace - which jives for some people. A fair majority of people as this thread shows. I get that, and fair enough to ya. I just preferred the older fluff on a personal level. They Tyrranids never felt like a race as such in the traditional sense to me. I've seen people refer to them as a setting before, which makes sense. A Tyrranid invasion is something that happens, rather than there being any real purpose behind it. "Feed" doesn't really carry much evil behind it. It's just nature, running its course. The Necrons back in the day though...Yeah, that was pretty much "Kill because feth the living". They killed for their reasons, and they were utterly remorseless. They were blending humans with machines to make things better at killing psykers. And we'd only just scratched the surface...

IMO, we didn't need another somewhat reasonable but still kind of grey on the scale race. Tyrranids may have been a better threat to the galaxy at large, but a better evil? 'Crons had that covered super hard.

I preferred when the was more mystery to the Necrons. There were hints at things to come, and a lack of true understanding from any other race in the galaxy. That, and it was just more grim. They were very definitely the bad guys in a world of grey - all we did know was that they were out for blood.

..Except we knew, they were doing it for the hunger of their "C'tan gods", they were just puppet slaves, it was literally right in the codex itself. The grand mystery? C'tan, motivations? Whatever the C'tan want. What did the C'tan want? To feed, they were literally Metal Tyranids.

IMO, we didn't need another somewhat reasonable but still kind of grey on the scale race. Tyrranids may have been a better threat to the galaxy at large, but a better evil? 'Crons had that covered super hard.

They were just metal coated Tyranids, at the behest of masters who just wanted to eat and screw around with things.

The best part are the Necron gardeners who can destroy an entire solar system just because.

Matt Ward at his best!

Coming from the "Oldcron" Nightbringer who put the Grim Reaper visage fear of death into every race and species cept Orks... Despite many species, populations not having anything to do with the Grim Reaper at all.

I like the new fluf but I think the old stuff is better because it's more mysterious

As a Necron player since the heady days of 2nd edition, The Necron/Blood Angels bro-fist makes me want to apply my REAL fist to Mr. Ward.

The way they rolled out the new fluff was terrible. Having the brofist moment a full year (two years?) before revealing that the Necron had changed led to a lot of people rightly angry at what looked like a total Mary Sue moment. If they'd introduced it as a gradual change throughout various fluff sources as higher-functioning leaders came online, I think it would have worked a lot better. That said, personality is better than no personality, and the game did not need two mindless omnicidal factions. I also like that they are now a faction that can rival the Imperium in size and is actually trying to build something, since prior to that the Imperium was the only galaxy-spanning faction that wasn't just trying to Burn It All Down. The one aspect of new fluff that I really don't like is giving them the ability (and interest) to use the webway. I really like the idea of them being completely apart from the Warp and having vastly powerful and inscrutable technology to compensate. I was happy to see the inertia-less drive come back in Fall of Orpheus and I think I'd rather just pretend that they don't have anything to do with the webway at all. It also makes their teleportation more interesting, as if you forbid them from having any Warp technology it means their teleport technology is somehow working completely differently than any other similar device.

People don't like change, even when its more of a flushing out of fluff. The 3rd edition codex was a skeleton.

The Fall of Orpheus was awesome.

I like both...
Both versions are equally viable and neither necessitate the absence of the other. I like the characters of the new, and the feel of the old.

Humorously enough, their enemies will rarely know (or care) which sub-faction they're fighting.

Also, while the Necron "team-up" seemed out of know here, any such alliance would play out the same way. Presumably, that was their first encounter with an Overlord led Necron force that shared their goal. The Necrons had never seen a reason to ally and the Imperium didn't know it was possible (and in ninety-nine of one hundred cases didn't care) to even communicate with Necrons at all. That it was an isolated event means it wasn't a spontaneous change in the Necrons, but a shift in their presence in that instance. The beginning of potential change.

At least, that's the way I like to see it. If that's not what gels with you, run a different thought pattern. The Necrons will be cool either way.

Wow, it's as if some people have no concept of the term "subjective".

I really love the new fluff, even though my home brew dynasty is essentially comprised of Oldcrons (sans the C'tan masters).

Praise be to the Wardfather for giving us the gift of Zandrekh and Trazyn.

Funny , as either Oldcrons or Newcrons, I never thought of them as evil. Or , I suppose the correct context is ' frightening " and / or "repellent " .

'Nids want to kill you for no particular reason , you're just dinner ? That may not be evil, but it certainly scares me and repels me.
The Tau ? Devious, deceptive, two-faced, lying mother -@#$%& !! If they aren't evil, they might as well be.
Eldar same as Tau.

But Necrons are both too impressive, and at the same time too tragic. That's either something I want to JOIN, or want to SAVE.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I preferred when the was more mystery to the Necrons. There were hints at things to come, and a lack of true understanding from any other race in the galaxy. That, and it was just more grim. They were very definitely the bad guys in a world of grey - all we did know was that they were out for blood.

..Except we knew, they were doing it for the hunger of their "C'tan gods", they were just puppet slaves, it was literally right in the codex itself. The grand mystery? C'tan, motivations? Whatever the C'tan want. What did the C'tan want? To feed, they were literally Metal Tyranids.

IMO, we didn't need another somewhat reasonable but still kind of grey on the scale race. Tyrranids may have been a better threat to the galaxy at large, but a better evil? 'Crons had that covered super hard.

They were just metal coated Tyranids, at the behest of masters who just wanted to eat and screw around with things.

So you're arguing that my opinion is wrong. And your argument amounts to "They're just metal Tyranids, Meurgh!"

Gosh.

 Bludbaff wrote:
The way they rolled out the new fluff was terrible. Having the brofist moment a full year (two years?) before revealing that the Necron had changed led to a lot of people rightly angry at what looked like a total Mary Sue moment. If they'd introduced it as a gradual change throughout various fluff sources as higher-functioning leaders came online, I think it would have worked a lot better.

Their fluff had already been changed in the 5e rule book.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I preferred when the was more mystery to the Necrons. There were hints at things to come, and a lack of true understanding from any other race in the galaxy. That, and it was just more grim. They were very definitely the bad guys in a world of grey - all we did know was that they were out for blood.

..Except we knew, they were doing it for the hunger of their "C'tan gods", they were just puppet slaves, it was literally right in the codex itself. The grand mystery? C'tan, motivations? Whatever the C'tan want. What did the C'tan want? To feed, they were literally Metal Tyranids.

IMO, we didn't need another somewhat reasonable but still kind of grey on the scale race. Tyrranids may have been a better threat to the galaxy at large, but a better evil? 'Crons had that covered super hard.

They were just metal coated Tyranids, at the behest of masters who just wanted to eat and screw around with things.

So you're arguing that my opinion is wrong. And your argument amounts to "They're just metal Tyranids, Meurgh!"

Gosh.

You mean besides you stated a 'fact'

all we did know was that they were out for blood.

We knew quite a bit more then that, the second part was opinion, though I'd argue that Chaos actually having a motivation would be more of a better evil myself.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
[

Coming from the "Oldcron" Nightbringer who put the Grim Reaper visage fear of death into every race and species cept Orks... Despite many species, populations not having anything to do with the Grim Reaper at all.

Let a TruCron explain this this to a NewCron:

The Nightbringer isn't a being on its own, it's a concept. The Nightbringer is pure energy. He is the oldest living being in the entire universe (along with its bretheren). His shape was given by the Necrontyr (Necrontyr, not Necrons) who designed the Necrodermis, an armor capable of holding the insane power in a form. The Necrontyr gave Him the appearance of a grim reaper - or rather paved the way for it, as He decided to take this form on his own as well. The Nightbringer and the Necrons almost destroyed the entire universe long before today, so being imprinted in the mind of all following generations of lesser races, it makes sense that such a concept is uphold.

Unless you want to argue that death isn't a concept most are familiar with

Glad to be of service.

When I read "OldCrons" I think of the late 2nd edition ones. That was years before Codex: RetCrons reframed the entire setting as a chessmatch between ancient aliens, and where instead of giving the Necrons background of their own the C'tan were inserted behind everyone else's.

That was the lamest thing. It was too late in 40K's development for such a "reveal", and the "hints" that the C'tan were/are behind a bunch of 30-40K stuff was an especially cheap trick to play. Didn't help that their threat resembled that of the Tyranids so much.

The first Necron Codex (along with Heresysploitation) pretty much killed my interest in 40K's fluff. The second one was a big step up by virtue of being a big step away. It downplays the C'tan and gives the robot skeletons that make up the actual army some personality and context in the present. They're hardly my favourite faction but I don't mind them being around.

 Blackhair Duckshape wrote:

Praise be to the Wardfather for giving us the gift of Zandrekh and Trazyn.

Those are two of the worst characters in the codex though.

Though only Imotekh and Szeras(sp?) are good.

 Sigvatr wrote:

The Nightbringer isn't a being on its own, it's a concept. The Nightbringer is pure energy. He is the oldest living being in the entire universe (along with its bretheren). His shape was given by the Necrontyr (Necrontyr, not Necrons) who designed the Necrodermis, an armor capable of holding the insane power in a form. The Necrontyr gave Him the appearance of a grim reaper - or rather paved the way for it, as He decided to take this form on his own as well. The Nightbringer and the Necrons almost destroyed the entire universe long before today, so being imprinted in the mind of all following generations of lesser races, it makes sense that such a concept is uphold.

The Nightbringer imprinted the fear of death on all mortal races (bar the Orks for some reason) after his Necrodermis was destroyed by Khaine. Many races (including humans) didn't play any part in the War in Heaven and most would never have seen the Nightbringer. Him being the source of the Grim Reaper image makes no sense.

Also the old Necrons were the only faction with their 'gods' actually able to direct their power fully in the Materium. The Ruinous Powers and Gork and Mork can't use most of their power in the Materium. The Emperor is on the Golden Throne. Cegorach spends a lot of time in the Webway trying to combat Slaanesh and Khaine was shattered into Greater Daemon-esque shards. The Tau don't have one at all and the Tyranid Hive Mind I'm unsure about but certainly doesn't actually wander about. The old Necrons had a massive technological advantage along with having their 'gods' around. The Deceiver was wandering around about the galaxy for millennia prior to the 41st millennium and his greatest accomplishment was orchestrating the Gothic War and in doing so gave the anti-C'tan Blackstone Fortresses to someone who could actually use them.

I much prefer the the new background. Though the Celestial Orrery is a bit much I like to think that it works by sending something to the star to cause it to turn supernova; allowing other factions to intercept it if necessary.