Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

XC18 wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
I think zaggy and stormboyz are highly underrated. Zaggy got a huge points drop, and although his powerklaw feet arent as awesome as before, he actually gets more attacks on the charge and making the powerklaw feet his HoW attack means in challenges he has a change to ID many people at I10. Most sergeant line characters if they accept a challenge from him immediately eat a str8 ap 2 hit at I10. Thats pretty much an 86% chance to kill whoever accepts if they are toughness 4 or less and have no inv. If he kills his challengee he then puts his 6 attacks on the charge into the unit at his I, at str 6. For 65pts thats not bad, much better than some of the other options.

+1 for Zag. And with his Da vulcha formation the chance goes to over 97% to win those challenges, and his Trait is one of the best

Awesome sauce! With your guy's votes Zagstrukk isn't all by himself in dead last now, HURRAY!!

My issue with zagstruk is hes a stormboy guy. i really wish he wasnt an HQ choice, as putting him in a unit that isnt stormboyz seems kinda wasteful.
Wonder how putting a painboy on bike in a blob of stormboyz would work.....they both move 12 just the painboy would require tests if they fly over terrain and if you choose to run, the bike can keep up with 12" turbo (since odds are they wont run more than 8 anyway) and the FNP helps with the danger tests.

Well again, use the formation so he won't use up a HQ slot ;p
Not sure about painboy on bike with them. Have to play test.

That formation is utter trash to me. 91 bodies deepstriking...they WILL mishap or be in places where you'd rather they didnt deepstrke to begin with.

Results in!

BW boyz w/ nob and foot boyz w/ nob tie for first! But more importantly BW grots take third!

Rankings seem about right overall, although I think trukk boyz might be slightly underated.

Now on to the elites O.o

I'm thinking missile MANz and BW Tankbustas tie for first.

Second place I have no idea, people seem to like Kommandos sooo...

Is there an option for Trukk Meganobz?

 Random Dude wrote:
Is there an option for Trukk Meganobz?

Oh sorry, that's the MANz missile. Guess I should have specified that teehee

 Vineheart01 wrote:
That formation is utter trash to me. 91 bodies deepstriking...they WILL mishap or be in places where you'd rather they didnt deepstrke to begin with.

But of course Don't take 91 bodies! The minimum size is 5 per unit that's it.

Do you realize that the formation allows you to get Zagstruk and a unit of stormboyz that don't take FOC slot and have improved rules? . Only restrictions is the unit must be minimum 15 Boyz and must deepstrike.

DS 16 bodies with 1D6 is doable no?
If you already plan to get zaggy and a mob of stormboyz in your list , then go with the formation. You can even take 3 nobs with Pk /big choppa in this unit for unwanted challenges.

Oh i didnt know you could get the numbers that low. i dont have the ghazzy book, i need to get it though since i want the battlewagon force org. i knew about the 1d6 scatter, its just the footprint is so huge big deal lol.

15 boyz plus zaggy is much more doable.


Also MANz Missile ftw. Probably the only elite i actually use regardless of the list lol

The nice thing about kommandos is you don't need to worry about transport. Far too many ork units become useless as soon as you kill their ride, but kommandos are actually able to survive on the ground if they have some cover and don't need a ride to get behind enemy lines.

Most other ork elite units aren't a fully functional unit just by themselves; they are a payload, which you need to deliver to the enemy with a vehicle. So far, my experience with trukks in 7th edition has been pretty bad, so I'm not inclined to trust them with an expensive cargo. Which leaves us relying on our horribly nerfed battlewagons unless we want to draw on Forgeworld and White Dwarf, in which case we have the rather nice Mekboy Junka and the somewhat less appealing Big Trakks and Looted Wagons as options.

The Junka is an elite choice too and rather an attractive one in my opinion. Less than the cost of the old battlewagon, almost as tough, equipped with a decent amount of firepower and a ram or rolla for free and capable of moving quickly if you really need it to.

I'm inclined to put the BW full of tankbustas as the best choice from the poll. If you can manage to get enough units together, a Blitz Brigade packed with Tankbustas looks especially brutal.

Also MANz Missile ftw. Probably the only elite i actually use regardless of the list lol

Ya me too, even if they don't remotely fit the army theme.

The nice thing about kommandos is you don't need to worry about transport. Far too many ork units become useless as soon as you kill their ride, but kommandos are actually able to survive on the ground if they have some cover and don't need a ride to get behind enemy lines.

Well put my friend . If only they had access to sniper rifles, they would probably be an auto-include in most of my lists. The way they are now I'm just not too sure...I'll have to play test them a bit before I draw any conclusions.

Snipers are kinda unorky, as they entitle the user knows how to aim. Orks dont aim lol. I could see giving them a pseudo rending gun that doesnt have the precision shots though, then again i think that would fall under Lootas as im thinking lots of snapfiring shots from a high-power rifle lol.

Whether its a good idea or not usually when i try to bring kommandos i always stick in 2 burnas for the AP3 melee attacks. Could care less about the S4 template lol. Its so expensive though....

Snipers are kinda unorky, as they entitle the user knows how to aim.

Hahaha, that's true

Maybe suicide bombers would fit them better. That would actually be kinda sweet if they could infiltrate and then blow up like a bomb squig first turn.

I always thought Kommandos should be able to take a couple of grots with special gear, like sniper rifles.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
I always thought Kommandos should be able to take a couple of grots with special gear, like sniper rifles.

Sniper grots sound awesome!

Also results are in! MANz missile takes the cake by a landslide! BW Tankbustas get an honorable second.

Next on the agenda, da FAST SHTUFF!!

Sniper grots actually DO make sense, considering BS3.

Probably the biggest thing i was hoping was some form of new grot/gretchin unit that wasnt the solid unit of weakness we already had. Something along the lines of little mini-mech grots, since theyre too small and weak on their own to fight along side orks so theyre riding little "bipeddle segways" or something lol with a fancy gun attached.

I would have loved for an option along the lines of wargear for character nobz "May include up to two of the following" and have various grots outfitted with special guns, kinda thinking like Drones here but not as robust obviously. They could be the nobz "pet" for fluff reasons for being there lol!

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Probably the biggest thing i was hoping was some form of new grot/gretchin unit that wasnt the solid unit of weakness we already had. Something along the lines of little mini-mech grots, since theyre too small and weak on their own to fight along side orks so theyre riding little "bipeddle segways" or something lol with a fancy gun attached.

Dude I want that sooo bad now lol!

Buggies and Deffkoptas are an interesting comparison, because they fill very similar roles.

I think the main difference is that deffkoptas are best if you only want one in a unit, but buggies get better if you want several in each FOC slot. This is because the deffkoptas' main weakness is their terrible morale.

For weapons loadouts, I think that buggies are best with rokkits while koptas are best with big shootas. This is because a kopta has a significantly better chance of positioning itself where it needs to be and against AV 10 the big shoota is actually more effective. Therefore it can usually be relied on to get shots into the rear of a tank and the BS gives it the best odds of achieving something with that. Buggies are far more likely to end up only able to get side armour and therefore need the extra strength of rokkits.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Buggies and Deffkoptas are an interesting comparison, because they fill very similar roles.

I think the main difference is that deffkoptas are best if you only want one in a unit, but buggies get better if you want several in each FOC slot. This is because the deffkoptas' main weakness is their terrible morale.

For weapons loadouts, I think that buggies are best with rokkits while koptas are best with big shootas. This is because a kopta has a significantly better chance of positioning itself where it needs to be and against AV 10 the big shoota is actually more effective. Therefore it can usually be relied on to get shots into the rear of a tank and the BS gives it the best odds of achieving something with that. Buggies are far more likely to end up only able to get side armour and therefore need the extra strength of rokkits.

I think that's a pretty fair comparison. I personally prefer buggies just cause their cheaper, but I could see a case for both.

Buggies and koptas are not the same unit. While yes everything barring S3 can hurt a buggie, its significantly less likely until its S6+ to cause more than a couple glances, and at that point you have to ask yourself "Do you really want to shoot this expensive gun on such a cheap unit?"

I feel buggies would be better for the anti-infantry role while koptas go for big bugs/vehicles/elites with rokkits. Reason being: skorchas. Two skorchas in a 5man buggie unit can easily ruin a blob of infantry in any army's day, especially if they pen the armor with AP4. And theyre fearless since theyre a vehicle, so the up in your face range isnt a big deal.

Results in!

To little surprise, warbikers take the top spot. Deffkoptas and stormboyz did surprisingly take second and third though, placing warbuggies in fourth. I think other than warbikers, fast attack is really based on personal preference above anything else.

Now on to the one we've been waiting for, heavy support!

I'm very interested to see how the rankings on this one turn out, particularly where people place lootas these days.

lootas are versitile, because they have good str, good AP and lots of shots.

mek guns are good because they are specilized. lobbas are cheap anti infantry. kannons are cheap anti tank.

Smasha guns get a bad rep but at ap and and average roll being str 8.. they may be slightly over priced.. but not nearly as bad as people make them out to be.. IMO

KMK are just awesome. slightly pricey..but worth it if you have the room.

Side note: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AR17SJI/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=25SCX7PSIHMFY&coliid=I3JLO916HC54HL would make a good base for scratchbuilt lobbas?

same question for kannons... http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002UZHINA/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=25SCX7PSIHMFY&coliid=IJ37O3G5M4G2E

Lootas have always had an issue of they die REALLY easy after turn 1, and even during turn 1 against some armies since they have no access to armor. Anything ignoring their cover, even things that have no AP, will ravage them.

I only brought them last codex because my Elites were usually barren. I would much, much rather have my lobba batteries than lootas these days purely because they compete for the slot.

Mek Guns are a no-brainer. A battery of Lobbas will almost always prove useful and kannons and KMK are pretty good if given appropriate support.

Lootas are still good, in my opinion. Painboys do a lot to offset their vulnerability and they still offer pretty much our only effective threat against light vehicles on the first turn.

No Battlewagons in the poll? Is that because they are considered a force multiplier for other units rather than a unit in their own right?

Despite the points-hike, I think that Battlewagons remain a very viable transport. The front armour does a lot to mitigate the power of a first-turn 'alpha strike'.

No Battlewagons in the poll?

Doh!! Thought I was missing something . Thanks for pointing that out .

Sooooo, so far mek gunz are barely ahead of lootas, and there's no votes for anything else lol .

Mek guns because cheap, tough and efficient.

I also like the Morkanaut because of the kff bubble and being a av13 walker, making it a bullet magnet, but it is not competitive because it can be shot down by a single lucky lascannon.
Actually I also like the Gorkanaut cause it really wrecks havoc with his deffstorm, but he got the same weakness than the morka.;(

XC18 wrote:
Mek guns because cheap, tough and efficient.

I also like the Morkanaut because of the kff bubble and being a av13 walker, making it a bullet magnet, but it is not competitive because it can be shot down by a single lucky lascannon.
Actually I also like the Gorkanaut cause it really wrecks havoc with his deffstorm, but he got the same weakness than the morka.;(

I don't think that makes it an invalid option for competitive. Any vehicle...ANY...can be one shotted by a lucky Ap2 weapon. That's just how it is. But look at all the vehicles that tend to run around. The advantage is it has a 5++, grants it to any of your models nearby, and has a decent payload of weaponry, and can wreck any vehicle you need it too, allowing your Boyz and Nobz to go after their infantry. It's a fun model as all get-out to play with. Its competitiveness is to be seen. I still think it's a HIGHLY under-rated model at this point. I don't think people have actually tried fielding it much. They see it on paper and think 'meh'. Even with a congested Heavy Support, I'll find room to field one and several batteries of Mek Gunz.

Though it's an expensive tactic, it plays heavy mind games on opponents as well. It's big, av 13, has lots of stuff, and a big ol claw. If they focus on it, that's less shots at everything else in my army, especially my Trukks and Battle Wagons. I have yet to have it blow up, more or less due to my KFF saving any random pens that happen to occur. In a game of dice rolling, it's unreasonable to say a unit is currently not competitive because a dice roll can kill it...which...would mean nothing is competitive.

Well I suppose I still feel overwhelmed by that damned lucky lascannon (first game with the morka, first Las shot!! )

I did field the Gorkanaut for few games and he is working quite fine actually.
(and for whoever is interested, I use Mogrok's formation. Outflanking the Gorkanaut, turn 2 it is already right in the opponent DZ, deffstorm blasting and flaming with joy and lust mouahaha!)

The problem with the g/mork is that its SO much more expensive than any other vehicle, yet can still be one-shotted. Its least double the price of any other vehicle, and sure it puts out a ton of damage, but that fact that one lucky lascannon can still kill it before it even moves on turn one makes it non-competitive. If it had the super heavy walker rule, it would be a completely different machine, one which is actually quite good. which for its point cost, it really should be.

Mek gunz can put out a huge amount of firepower for the cost. For 165 points you can get 5 Kustom Mega Kannons with ammo runts. 5 S8 AP2 blasts is really putting the hurt on meq.