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 Zagman wrote:
Call me crazy, but the first two releases of 7th edition have much better internal balance than we are accustomed to and should show good external balance between themselves as well. Heck, we can extend that back through Tara Militarum and to a lesser degree Tyranids.

That makes 3-4 Internally balanced and Externally Balanced codices in a row and can be indicative of a trend. Maybe things are looking up from a balance perspective after the travesty that was Eldar in 6th.

Of course, the nerf releases don't stand up to Eldar or SM individually, but unlike the 6th and especially the 5th edition codices before there is pretty damned good internal and external balance at work.

Let's look at the trend towards the future, if that is well balanced codices, even if they are weaker than Eldar and sM, that is a good thing and the game will be far better balanced for it.

Only time will tell, but things are looking up!

I don't really know all that much about the Ork codex, but the old SW didn't really need all that much and we didn't really get all that much, so in that sense we can be happy.

The IG codex also was already a pretty solid codex, it didn't change much, a nerf to the Vendetta and it was pretty much fine. For some reason they nerfed the Hydra which was a bit random. The more disappointing thing was the removal of a lot of special characters and some units.

The old Tyranid codex was a horrible unbalanced mess before and the new Tyranid codex is also a horrible unbalanced mess.

So I'm not seeing a huge trend of the game as a whole improving, but we'll see once a few more codices come out.

I got the codex 1 day early. After reading through it, it seems like the buffs we got don't make up for the nerfs. Ulrik is worth taking now, and a rune priest in TDA should be an auto include for 115 points at lvl2 with a storm bolter. TWC also got much better with less points and more access to war gear. A str8 ap1 Lance on a flyer will be tough to deal with and anything dedicated to shooting that down is going to be ignoring the WG TDA about to assault their flank and the GH dropping down everywhere. We now have the option to pod in tig with some grav cents (re roll hits and wounds? Yes please!). It's much more internally balanced than the old codex and it is externally balanced with all the newer codexes. Eldar and Tau will still table us more often than not though. BC still suffer from being a CC dedicated unit in a shooting game. No more chooser, wolf tail talisman, wolf tooth necklace or standard in every unit. The standard we have is probably not worth the points when MSU is the way to go. The psychic powers and warlord traits are mostly inferior to the ones in the BRB. I'm going to play some 1850 games this week and try different lists out. Maybe once they update some of the OP armies running around this dex will be more competitive.

Had a look at the new codex today, I'm not really liking the new format of wargear list at the start, wargear rules at the back, unit rules in the middle with photos rather than artwork.

Granted it wouldn't bother me so much if it weren't for the fact they're asking a friggin fortune for their books.

Rules themselves look fine, I didn't really spend a lot of time trying to find anything that hasn't already been answered since I figure everyone will have the codex within the next few days.

I HATE flipping back and forth between war gear cost and war gear rules. I'm about to take pics of the pages on my phone so I don't have to do that nonsense. 12 hours into having the codex and it already bugs the hell out of me.

Sorry if this been asked already, but how does the storm-shield/axe upgrade work for the Dreadnought? Do you have to take them as a pair, or can you take the stormshield and still keep a ranged weapon?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Sorry if this been asked already, but how does the storm-shield/axe upgrade work for the Dreadnought? Do you have to take them as a pair, or can you take the stormshield and still keep a ranged weapon?

They have to be taken as a pair. So much for all those helfrost/shield combos we all wanted. And Bjorn's the only one who can take helfrost to boot.

Thanks though.

I feel the exact same way.

It's still not available for me on iTunes :(

Well its as expected. After my Orks got fethed over my beloved space wolves got the same treatment.

Can Logan actually be fielded without being a lord of war?
Its not as if he is comparable to a titan which is what I would face if I used him.

I'm pretty sure Ulrik and TDA rune priest are going in every list I ever make now. Ulrik is 35 points cheaper and gained fear and saga of the beast slayer. Rune priest is 40 points cheaper.

Daston wrote:
Well its as expected. After my Orks got fethed over my beloved space wolves got the same treatment.

Can Logan actually be fielded without being a lord of war?
Its not as if he is comparable to a titan which is what I would face if I used him.

No, he's got his own little section and symbol and everything but his new chariot is actually pretty decent and he's gone down in points. Can't imagine too many normal point games that someone's going to throw a titan down on the field.

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:

Daston wrote:
Well its as expected. After my Orks got fethed over my beloved space wolves got the same treatment.

Can Logan actually be fielded without being a lord of war?
Its not as if he is comparable to a titan which is what I would face if I used him.

No, he's got his own little section and symbol and everything but his new chariot is actually pretty decent and he's gone down in points. Can't imagine too many normal point games that someone's going to throw a titan down on the field.

Oh I can. You should meet my local meta

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:

Daston wrote:
Well its as expected. After my Orks got fethed over my beloved space wolves got the same treatment.

Can Logan actually be fielded without being a lord of war?
Its not as if he is comparable to a titan which is what I would face if I used him.

No, he's got his own little section and symbol and everything but his new chariot is actually pretty decent and he's gone down in points. Can't imagine too many normal point games that someone's going to throw a titan down on the field.

So I can't use my old model? That makes both 7th edition codex invalidate my models ffs.

Don't think I'll bother with this codex and spend more time on fantasy.

Daston wrote:

 Thorgrim Bloodcrow wrote:

Daston wrote:
Well its as expected. After my Orks got fethed over my beloved space wolves got the same treatment.

Can Logan actually be fielded without being a lord of war?
Its not as if he is comparable to a titan which is what I would face if I used him.

No, he's got his own little section and symbol and everything but his new chariot is actually pretty decent and he's gone down in points. Can't imagine too many normal point games that someone's going to throw a titan down on the field.

So I can't use my old model? That makes both 7th edition codex invalidate my models ffs.

Don't think I'll bother with this codex and spend more time on fantasy.

there's no reason you can't use your old model - the chariot is totally optional (forget how many points it is though)

Logan = 250
Stormrider (His chariot) = 70

And I just got around to finishing my old Logan model, no way in heck am I not gonna use him now

Haha. Personally I'm not a huge fan of the new model

 Random Dude wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
Call me crazy, but the first two releases of 7th edition have much better internal balance than we are accustomed to and should show good external balance between themselves as well. Heck, we can extend that back through Tara Militarum and to a lesser degree Tyranids.

That makes 3-4 Internally balanced and Externally Balanced codices in a row and can be indicative of a trend. Maybe things are looking up from a balance perspective after the travesty that was Eldar in 6th.

Of course, the nerf releases don't stand up to Eldar or SM individually, but unlike the 6th and especially the 5th edition codices before there is pretty damned good internal and external balance at work.

Let's look at the trend towards the future, if that is well balanced codices, even if they are weaker than Eldar and sM, that is a good thing and the game will be far better balanced for it.

Only time will tell, but things are looking up!

I appreciate your optimism! I'm inclined to agree. I haven't read through the Ork codex, but the SM, AM, and SW seem to be well balanced (if not extremely powerful).

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the codexes so frequently decried as underpowered, such as Nids and orks, area actually indicative of the level 40k should be at. Tau, Eldar and one or two Demon build are in fact better than average, through quirks of rules, not the level every codex should expect to be at. Take those three out of the equation, and balance has been pretty consistent since the start of 6th. SW seem to occupy a similar level that goes towards confirming this trend.

So I agree, there's little to complain about.

 Paradigm wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
Call me crazy, but the first two releases of 7th edition have much better internal balance than we are accustomed to and should show good external balance between themselves as well. Heck, we can extend that back through Tara Militarum and to a lesser degree Tyranids.

That makes 3-4 Internally balanced and Externally Balanced codices in a row and can be indicative of a trend. Maybe things are looking up from a balance perspective after the travesty that was Eldar in 6th.

Of course, the nerf releases don't stand up to Eldar or SM individually, but unlike the 6th and especially the 5th edition codices before there is pretty damned good internal and external balance at work.

Let's look at the trend towards the future, if that is well balanced codices, even if they are weaker than Eldar and sM, that is a good thing and the game will be far better balanced for it.

Only time will tell, but things are looking up!

I appreciate your optimism! I'm inclined to agree. I haven't read through the Ork codex, but the SM, AM, and SW seem to be well balanced (if not extremely powerful).

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the codexes so frequently decried as underpowered, such as Nids and orks, area actually indicative of the level 40k should be at. Tau, Eldar and one or two Demon build are in fact better than average, through quirks of rules, not the level every codex should expect to be at. Take those three out of the equation, and balance has been pretty consistent since the start of 6th. SW seem to occupy a similar level that goes towards confirming this trend.

So I agree, there's little to complain about.

I'm still on the fence about buying the codex though.

 Paradigm wrote:

 Random Dude wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
Call me crazy, but the first two releases of 7th edition have much better internal balance than we are accustomed to and should show good external balance between themselves as well. Heck, we can extend that back through Tara Militarum and to a lesser degree Tyranids.

That makes 3-4 Internally balanced and Externally Balanced codices in a row and can be indicative of a trend. Maybe things are looking up from a balance perspective after the travesty that was Eldar in 6th.

Of course, the nerf releases don't stand up to Eldar or SM individually, but unlike the 6th and especially the 5th edition codices before there is pretty damned good internal and external balance at work.

Let's look at the trend towards the future, if that is well balanced codices, even if they are weaker than Eldar and sM, that is a good thing and the game will be far better balanced for it.

Only time will tell, but things are looking up!

I appreciate your optimism! I'm inclined to agree. I haven't read through the Ork codex, but the SM, AM, and SW seem to be well balanced (if not extremely powerful).

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the codexes so frequently decried as underpowered, such as Nids and orks, area actually indicative of the level 40k should be at. Tau, Eldar and one or two Demon build are in fact better than average, through quirks of rules, not the level every codex should expect to be at. Take those three out of the equation, and balance has been pretty consistent since the start of 6th. SW seem to occupy a similar level that goes towards confirming this trend.

So I agree, there's little to complain about.

The power level of the 'nid codex is secondary to the fact it's horribly unbalanced, that's what people complain about more than the actual power level. Soooo many crappy units that can't find a place in a competitive game.

Just flipping through the SW codex, it actually looks to have pretty good balance.

Also, saying codices should be at X level while Tau and Eldar are above that isn't really a whole lot of comfort given, ya know, Tau and Eldar still exist. Every new codex might be better balanced, but the outliers feth things up until they themselves are replaced, which I don't imagine is going to be any time soon (though you never know with the current release cycle, maybe GW will just ignore Fantasy and keep re-releasing all the damned 40k armies on tight schedules ad infinitum.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Random Dude wrote:
I'm still on the fence about buying the codex though.

Yeah, I'm not sure I'm happy with the direction GW have taken with the SW and given the state of 40k in general I'm not convinced I actually want to buy the SW codex and take my SW army off the shelf.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


Also, saying codices should be at X level while Tau and Eldar are above that isn't really a whole lot of comfort given, ya know, Tau and Eldar still exist. Every new codex might be better balanced, but the outliers feth things up until they themselves are replaced, which I don't imagine is going to be any time soon (though you never know with the current release cycle, maybe GW will just ignore Fantasy and keep re-releasing all the damned 40k armies on tight schedules ad infinitum.

Fair point, I agree. Just all too often I see people complaining that their codex isn't eldar-level good as if a new codex makes you entitled to an automatic power boost (which it doesnt if you don't need one). Of course eldar and tau are still throwing things out of whack, but the general trend towards a stabilising power level has to be a good thing in the long run.

anyone whos got the codex what are the stats and points like for this murderfang chappy any special things about him or is he another venerable but with a face

oh and the stormfang and stormwolf what are they like compared to a vendetta, valk

 luftsb wrote:
anyone whos got the codex what are the stats and points like for this murderfang chappy any special things about him or is he another venerable but with a face

oh and the stormfang and stormwolf what are they like compared to a vendetta, valk

He's actually even squishier than a venerable.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t1.0-9/q80/s720x720/1924353_810754618958124_7116660026879344844_n.jpg

 Bulldogging wrote:

 luftsb wrote:
anyone whos got the codex what are the stats and points like for this murderfang chappy any special things about him or is he another venerable but with a face

oh and the stormfang and stormwolf what are they like compared to a vendetta, valk

He's actually even squishier than a venerable.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/t1.0-9/q80/s720x720/1924353_810754618958124_7116660026879344844_n.jpg

cheers

 Random Dude wrote:

 Zagman wrote:
Call me crazy, but the first two releases of 7th edition have much better internal balance than we are accustomed to and should show good external balance between themselves as well. Heck, we can extend that back through Tara Militarum and to a lesser degree Tyranids.

That makes 3-4 Internally balanced and Externally Balanced codices in a row and can be indicative of a trend. Maybe things are looking up from a balance perspective after the travesty that was Eldar in 6th.

Of course, the nerf releases don't stand up to Eldar or SM individually, but unlike the 6th and especially the 5th edition codices before there is pretty damned good internal and external balance at work.

Let's look at the trend towards the future, if that is well balanced codices, even if they are weaker than Eldar and sM, that is a good thing and the game will be far better balanced for it.

Only time will tell, but things are looking up!

I appreciate your optimism! I'm inclined to agree. I haven't read through the Ork codex, but the SM, AM, and SW seem to be well balanced (if not extremely powerful).

IMO that only works if your willing to admit your mistake and patch the three busted books. Having balance in 2/3 of your army books is great, but when 75% of the field is using the unglued books then your not making the impact that you should be.

I agree it is better to stem the bleeding, but unless your sew the wound up, your just pissing off more gamers who patiently tolerated the abusive books hoping theirs would answer the call.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Toofast wrote:
I HATE flipping back and forth between war gear cost and war gear rules. I'm about to take pics of the pages on my phone so I don't have to do that nonsense. 12 hours into having the codex and it already bugs the hell out of me.

Yea I love how 3rd ed codexes had this annoying attribute as well. Apparently GW is just regressing with their format. When I bought the new Chaos book I was so annoyed by that regression as I knew it was how they'd all end up.

You need to flip back and forth for every unit entry just to purchase their equipment. This also makes checking others lists EXTREMELY frustrating.

 Red Corsair wrote:
IMO that only works if your willing to admit your mistake and patch the three busted books. Having balance in 2/3 of your army books is great, but when 75% of the field is using the unglued books then your not making the impact that you should be.

I agree it is better to stem the bleeding, but unless your sew the wound up, your just pissing off more gamers who patiently tolerated the abusive books hoping theirs would answer the call.

Yeah, every new codex that comes out that is NOT as powerful as the overpowered armies is just another kick in the balls reminding you that the game as a whole is fethed up and you get to wait another couple of years waiting for the next codex lottery to come round and see who is overpowered in the next batch.

I actually like the new format. I am not sure about the artwork, but that was never the big thing for me.
As far as the flipping back and forth, I see it no worse than any other, if not a little better.
The Guard book as an example
1] Look at the entry for the Unit in the back of the book and follow the Page Reference..
2] Got to the Unit Page Referenced and Find the page Reference(s) for the Wargear.
3] Go to the referenced page(s) to look up the Wargear.
Now you only have to look up the Wargear, everything else is on one page.