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 DeathReaper wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
The embarked unit is not in Deep Strike Reserve because it is not Deep Striking.

100% incorrect, as such the rest of your post holding to this premise is false.

"When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve)" (Special Rules chapter, Deep Strike section).

Arriving by Deep Strike = called Deep Strike Reserve.

 BlackTalos wrote:
I did indeed claim so, by "When placing the unit in Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike"
So with a Unit of Grey Hunters in a Space Wolf Drop Pod, by RaW i can claim:

Grey Hunters do not have the Deep Strike Special Rule, "it will be arriving by Deep Strike" is impossible. The unit cannot be in Deep Strike Reserves.
"Dop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserves". The unit must be in Deep Strike Reserves.

Contradictory but both RaW.

Luckily for us Deep Strike Reserves is a term sometimes not used, so the contradiction doesn't matter.

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blaktoof wrote:
when we look under "arriving by deepstrike" we see there is the wording "deploy them as follows first place one model.."

failure to follow this sequence means they have not arrived by deepstrike.

arriving by deepstrike requires that you deploy as per the rules for arriving by deepstrike, a unit embarked in a deep striking transport is not doing this so they are not "arriving by deep strike" the transport is. There is no where that says the unit also counts as being deployed as per arriving by deep strike, so the unit embarked is not arriving by deepstrike.

Agreed, having a Unit in Reserves does not mean it is Deep Striking

SW Pg 74:
"Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserve."

So DSR is a REAL thing.

Further more, if we go by your rules, there is no way that a Space Wolf Drop Pod can actually deepstrike as the only rule that allows a Space Wolf Drop Pod to deepstrike is the fact that it is deployed in Deep Strike Reserve...

space wolf drop pods would still follow the drop pod assault rule even if they dont specifically have the deep strike USR.

Eihnlazer wrote:
space wolf drop pods would still follow the drop pod assault rule even if they dont specifically have the deep strike USR.

Drop Pod Assault per Codex Space Wolves:
"Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally."

That is the complete rule: the only indication that they can actually Deep Strike is that they are held in Deep Strike Reserves (as is the embarked units).

...so... i guess SW Pods cannot deepstrike as there is no rule that gives them it...?...

OR:

They Deep Strike because they are in Deep Strike Reserve.

The "Aid Unlooked For" special rule on the LoD says they must ALWAYS arrive by deep strike.

A Pod arrives by deep strike but the unit inside doesn't - it disembarks.

Otherwise Devastators don't have to snap fire coming out of a pod.

Also, in RAW literal sense, the unit inside doesn't gain the Deep Strike rule in the CSM dex (not sure about the new SW one), so a blatantly non RAI but RAW sense no one can use the SW pods in T1. They would need to 1 be in deep strike reserve and 2 have deep strike. So a GK PAGK could go in it under that interpretation, but very little else would fit. That's not how I or anyone else HIWPI, but some [REDACTED] people think Swooping hawks need to walk on from the back edge when they come back in

RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote:
The "Aid Unlooked For" special rule on the LoD says they must ALWAYS arrive by deep strike.

A Pod arrives by deep strike but the unit inside doesn't - it disembarks.

Otherwise Devastators don't have to snap fire coming out of a pod.

Also, in RAW literal sense, the unit inside doesn't gain the Deep Strike rule in the CSM dex (not sure about the new SW one), so a blatantly non RAI but RAW sense no one can use the SW pods in T1. They would need to 1 be in deep strike reserve and 2 have deep strike. So a GK PAGK could go in it under that interpretation, but very little else would fit. That's not how I or anyone else HIWPI, but some [REDACTED] people think Swooping hawks need to walk on from the back edge when they come back in

The Pod and the unit inside counts as moving so thats why they fire snap shots.

RAW is what the issue is- and LoD has DS rule... so you agree that by RAW LoD can ride in SW pods?

Both Deep-striking and Disembarking have 'counts as Moved in the Shooting Phase' clauses, making it useless for determining what is going on in this situation.

xAndurilx wrote:

RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote:
The "Aid Unlooked For" special rule on the LoD says they must ALWAYS arrive by deep strike.

A Pod arrives by deep strike but the unit inside doesn't - it disembarks.

Otherwise Devastators don't have to snap fire coming out of a pod.

Also, in RAW literal sense, the unit inside doesn't gain the Deep Strike rule in the CSM dex (not sure about the new SW one), so a blatantly non RAI but RAW sense no one can use the SW pods in T1. They would need to 1 be in deep strike reserve and 2 have deep strike. So a GK PAGK could go in it under that interpretation, but very little else would fit. That's not how I or anyone else HIWPI, but some [REDACTED] people think Swooping hawks need to walk on from the back edge when they come back in

The Pod and the unit inside counts as moving so thats why they fire snap shots.

RAW is what the issue is- and LoD has DS rule... so you agree that by RAW LoD can ride in SW pods?

arriving by deepstrike actually requires they deploy as per arriving from deepstrike, as is cited in the rule for deepstrike.

the unit inside the pod never deploys as per deep strike so unless it specifically states it counts as deploying from deepstrike, its not arriving by deep strike.

despite the obvious english fail on the part of the writers, the requirement to follow the deployment rules cannot be ignored unless another rule specifies it can.

xAndurilx wrote:

Eihnlazer wrote:
space wolf drop pods would still follow the drop pod assault rule even if they dont specifically have the deep strike USR.

Drop Pod Assault per Codex Space Wolves:
"Drop Pods and units embarked upon them must be held in Deep Strike Reserves. At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods automatically arrive from Reserve. The arrival of remaining Drop Pods is rolled for normally."

That is the complete rule: the only indication that they can actually Deep Strike is that they are held in Deep Strike Reserves (as is the embarked units).

...so... i guess SW Pods cannot deepstrike as there is no rule that gives them it...?...

OR:

They Deep Strike because they are in Deep Strike Reserve.

So your skipping that whole part about "At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods automatically arrive from Reserve."?

Eihnlazer wrote:
So your skipping that whole part about "At the beginning of your first turn, half your Drop Pods automatically arrive from Reserve."?

Arriving from Reserve means that they move onto the board from their table edge...obviously this is not the case, so we have to assume that they arrive by Deep Strike because they are deployed in Deep Strike Reserve.


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blaktoof wrote:
arriving by deepstrike actually requires they deploy as per arriving from deepstrike, as is cited in the rule for deepstrike.

the unit inside the pod never deploys as per deep strike so unless it specifically states it counts as deploying from deepstrike, its not arriving by deep strike.

despite the obvious english fail on the part of the writers, the requirement to follow the deployment rules cannot be ignored unless another rule specifies it can.

Right - but I feel that the Transport rules and Drop Pod rules make an exception for this position as quoted earlier in this thread.

Does it come right out and say it? nope...

But i think that there is strong enough evidence to sway it in the favor of the embarked unit arriving by Deep Strike versus arriving by... disembarkation?

They arrived by transport vehicle. Again: claiming otherwise means you claim a unit on a zooming transport arrive Zooming.

xAndurilx wrote:
But i think that there is strong enough evidence to sway it in the favor of the embarked unit arriving by Deep Strike versus arriving by... disembarkation?

The embarked Unit never does any "arriving". It has left reserves, and it disembarks in the Movement phase. Those are the only two rules supported.

BlackTalos,
They do Arrive, because the Rules inform us that they Arrive together, but without specific instructions stating how they arrive the only thing we can conclude is that they just... Arrived.

right but it does tell us how they arrive:
they disembark from the pod per their Transport Capacity rule