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I have a question regarding competitive gameplay. How can the new Space Wolves defeat Screamerstar, jetbike council, riptides or wrightknights?

Screamerstar isn't all too much of a huge issue anymore. It is annoying, but not as bad as it used to be. Our answer to most thing is TWC and stormwolf gunship. There is also the Sicarious FW tank that shoots something like 6 autocannon shots that ignore jink and is 13/12/11 for dirty nasty cheap (sub 150pt) I think I will get myself that as an xmas gift.

Wraithknights? Honestly, most of the time you can just ignore 1 or two and wipe out the rest of the army. Or you can throw some TWC at it lol.

Of course, if you don't like TWC, go old school. Metric buttload of drop pods, and the sword/board dreadnought is a beast! Murderfang just became S8 on the charge too.

In all these instances I would feel just trying to throw TWC at them might work, or for the MCs maybe using hellfrost would work, but that still is a big if, in both cases would need to take an unsaved wound and then roll a 6. We do not have anything superbly amazing, such as grav to deal with these tough items.

As for Wraithknights - they are s10 in close combat. That will id any TWC or Thunderlord. The only solution is a rune priest on a bike and a hope to roll Endurance (EW,FNP 4+)

gausus wrote:
As for Wraithknights - they are s10 in close combat. That will id any TWC or Thunderlord. The only solution is a rune priest on a bike and a hope to roll Endurance (EW,FNP 4+)

Or take Storm Shields and pass off any wounds to a cheap TWC, then hit it with a Thunder Hammer or Powerfist. Not a guarantee, but it's your best chance.

Yeah, passing wounds to wolves/SS TWC is fine and then the WK dies horribly.

New FAQ's are out.

Axe+ Shield Terminators are back, pity its not power weapon + shield but something is better than nothing.

Murderfang is now str +1 claws, so str 8 on the charge.

Other fixes were just printing errors.

Space wolves are also able to spam Plasma and Melta better than most, giving good ranged capabilities versus Wraithknights and Riptides in addition to the melee.

I finally beat the Tau at a recent tournament using foot grey hunter spam. The list consisted of:
1500pts
2 Rune Priests (ml2) runic armour
5 units of Grey Hunters led by WGPL in Termi armour
2 units of Long Fangs, 1 with 5xML, 1 with 3xPC 1xHB

The Termi leaders did a great job soaking up fire. The long fangs were pretty useless. The rune priest that rolled levitation was VERY useful. That extra 12" move is super good in Maelstrom missions (which is what we where playing). In the end, having so many models on the table was a big boon. And with the Termi leaders in front, he just couldn't kill them fast enough. I didn't table him, I just took objectives and survived until the end of the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Taking out a Wraithlord?
10 Grey Hunters
2x melta
Power fist
Wolf standard
WGPL with power fist and combi melta.

Fire meltas, charge, let the bolter guys take the wounds. Maybe cause a wound or two with Krak grenades.
Finish him off with your 7 power fist attacks.
Expensive, but it does the job.

Seems like Iron Priests would be better than the WG guys if you can spare the slots even just plain.

Your fist attacks are s8, not s7.
Still Your tactic has little chance of success.
A wraitknight can just outrun you, or use three twin linked s6 ap2 blasts to get rid of you, befere you even get into bolter range

 Fenris Frost wrote:

2.) I think Long Fangs are dead, man. I've tried so many different configs, none seem to work:
- 5ML, they just put 2+ targets in front of them
- 5LC, effective but not as much as 190 points would have you believe, and they are vulnerable usually without supplemented investments.
- 5HB, no one cares, you are either hurting guys who will save most of the wounds or hurting guys who are too cheap for the other dude to care.
- 5PC, they just burn themselves to death, one kills himself every other turn.
- 5MM seems pretty good for the price but then no one gets anywhere near them because the entire rest of our army is aggressive short-range stuff so they quickly are left in the dust.

If your only concern with the long fangs using plasma cannons is them hurting themselves, why not put them in the bunker and give it an ammo dump so they can reroll the gets hot results? I was considering a unit like that inside the bunker and maybe a separate lascannon unit on top.

gausus wrote:
Your fist attacks are s8, not s7.
Still Your tactic has little chance of success.
A wraitknight can just outrun you, or use three twin linked s6 ap2 blasts to get rid of you, befere you even get into bolter range

No, 7 attacks, not Str7. In a Stormwolf it's virtually guaranteed success. He won't even get any overwatch. I've never seen anyone take that version (300pts worth!) but I'll take it into consideration now. Sounds scary!

For what it's worth, I had a game this weekend where the Stormwolf's Helfrost turret took out BOTH of the enemy Wraithknights. It takes some luck, but I did that with only one; maybe a few on some dreads would do the trick, or looking for some rends on the Helfrost sword.

Not as good an answer as TWC, really, but might at least hold up as a backup plan occasionally.

If your only concern with the long fangs using plasma cannons is them hurting themselves, why not put them in the bunker and give it an ammo dump so they can reroll the gets hot results? I was considering a unit like that inside the bunker and maybe a separate lascannon unit on top.

The ammo dump lets them re-roll 1's to hit, not just 1's in general. As such, it doesn't protect the plasma cannons from the gets hot check. :(

Gets hot specifically addresses rerolling 1's.

 pretre wrote:
Gets hot specifically addresses rerolling 1's.

Huh. How bout that? You learn something new every day. I must have not caught that last sentence.

I still don't know if this works, I will have to check out how it interacts with the ammo store's rules (it may literally say "when rolling to hit, you may re-roll any results of 1" and it would probably override it). But if not...5 plasma cannons in an AV14 shell for 165+~75 sounds pretty mean.

Recently had a game where helfrost took out 2 of thos grot artillery pains in the butt. Took one down, then the second turn he moved all his grot crew up front to protect it, so I flew over and shot it in the butt, killing the second one.

Very satisfying.

Planning a game tonight for kicks and giggles,
Bjorn with 4 dreadnoughts and 2 units of 4 TWC. 3 dreads have pods so 2 can alpha strike. Also threw in a stormwolf, just for additional shenanigans. Should be a good time!

I'm toying with the idea of trying all of the various Long Fang units I've been testing out lately in one list.

Did the math. For about 650 you can get:
- 6 Fangs w/ 5 Lascannons
- 6 Fangs w/ 5 Plasma Cannons in an Imperial Bunker with Void Shield and Ammo Store
- 6 Fangs w/ 5 Multimeltas and a Meltagun on the Ancient in a Deathwind Drop Pod

I normally hate spending 650 points on static stuff but in this case I think it could work. The melta unit drops in the enemy lines deploying into cover, potentially with a Termie leader to tank hits, and maybe gets off a lucky snap to kill something with the heavy weapons while Split Fire lets the leader hit something else. The enemy is either going to overcommit or push away from that unit, potentially pushing toward the Space Wolf line in the process. I put the plasma cannons in a bunker on one side of the board and the lascannons in solid cover on the other, and just make it rain AP2 while they deal with the Deathwind and Multimeltas in their lines for a turn or two.

Crazy idea. Not sure it will work. What do you guys think?

Seems like you could get a lot better units for those 650 points...

Like what? Care to elaborate?

I'm thinking of synergy here, not literal "single unit in a vacuum" stuff. So if you're going to tell me to take TWC a TWM Lord and a Stormwolf for these same points, well...basically, why even have a tactics thread when we can answer everything with that?

I would rather take 650pt of dreadnoughts in drop pods with similar equipment.
2 multimelta dreads in pods
2 plasma cannon dreds in pods
1 lascannon dreadnought.
660pt

Sure you don't have the same firepower, but you have better alpha strike power, as all your long fangs will snap fire first turn but the melta.

plus you almost double your units. 4 pods instead of 3, and 5 units instead of 3. You also have a decent enough deterrent from assault. Where every army will gladly throw anything at your long fangs to prevent them from firing, not everyone will toss a 5 man tactical squad at a dreadnought. Then your platform is mobile, which on melta, I argue will be better, plus the ability to assault vehicles and all sorts of other goodies while your drop pods hold the objectives.

I ran a list with only dreadnoughts and TWC twice recently and did pretty well.

Bjorn(helfrost)
Shield/axe + pod
dual heavy flamers +pod
multimelta heavy flamer +pod
dual autocannon
2 units of 4 TWC
stormwolf

The dreadnoughts are amazing fire magnets, allowing the TWC to get to their targets (the heavy weapons teams and vehicles usually) on turn 2. With 3 pods, bjorn on foot (he really needs a pod though) and rifleman sniping stuff, it works out pretty well. I faced an army with 2 land speeders, 2 vindicators, 2 razorbacks and a whirlwind, thinking I would be crushed by the mass vehicles, however it went the other way pretty quickly. Alpha strike got first blood and pulled lots of fire while TWC ran up the field. Turn 2, most his anti tank was down and the dreadnoughts were free to do whatever.

My current planed loudout for the Long Fangs is with 4 Plasma Cannons in Imperial bunker with Coms relay and Ammo dump. AV 14, re-rolling reserves, re-rolling 1's, 4 S7 AP2 blasts for 210 points. It frees up a FA slot for an empty drop pod (so 2 full ones can drop in T1) and they work the relay so my Stormwolf arrives reliably. It's a pretty nice little package that works really well for my army.

I love to see Wraithknighs getting one shotted.

Fenris Frost wrote:I'm toying with the idea of trying all of the various Long Fang units I've been testing out lately in one list.

Did the math. For about 650 you can get:
- 6 Fangs w/ 5 Lascannons
- 6 Fangs w/ 5 Plasma Cannons in an Imperial Bunker with Void Shield and Ammo Store
- 6 Fangs w/ 5 Multimeltas and a Meltagun on the Ancient in a Deathwind Drop Pod

I normally hate spending 650 points on static stuff but in this case I think it could work. The melta unit drops in the enemy lines deploying into cover, potentially with a Termie leader to tank hits, and maybe gets off a lucky snap to kill something with the heavy weapons while Split Fire lets the leader hit something else. The enemy is either going to overcommit or push away from that unit, potentially pushing toward the Space Wolf line in the process. I put the plasma cannons in a bunker on one side of the board and the lascannons in solid cover on the other, and just make it rain AP2 while they deal with the Deathwind and Multimeltas in their lines for a turn or two.

Crazy idea. Not sure it will work. What do you guys think?

6 Long fangs with multimeltas and melta gune + drops pod...... that's a LOT of points for a 1-shot weapon that will MAYBE kill 1 (you're 5/6 or LESS THAN 1.0 probability to even HIT a target, and then only 33% to even HIT your other target).
Secondly, I don't know how you missed re-rolls to hit potentially saving you from something that only trigger one a 1 to hit (which is an auto-miss for every unit ever)

gwarsh41 wrote:I would rather take 650pt of dreadnoughts in drop pods with similar equipment.
2 multimelta dreads in pods
2 plasma cannon dreds in pods
1 lascannon dreadnought.
660pt

Sure you don't have the same firepower, but you have better alpha strike power, as all your long fangs will snap fire first turn but the melta.

plus you almost double your units. 4 pods instead of 3, and 5 units instead of 3. You also have a decent enough deterrent from assault. Where every army will gladly throw anything at your long fangs to prevent them from firing, not everyone will toss a 5 man tactical squad at a dreadnought. Then your platform is mobile, which on melta, I argue will be better, plus the ability to assault vehicles and all sorts of other goodies while your drop pods hold the objectives.

I ran a list with only dreadnoughts and TWC twice recently and did pretty well.

Bjorn(helfrost)
Shield/axe + pod
dual heavy flamers +pod
multimelta heavy flamer +pod
dual autocannon
2 units of 4 TWC
stormwolf

The dreadnoughts are amazing fire magnets, allowing the TWC to get to their targets (the heavy weapons teams and vehicles usually) on turn 2. With 3 pods, bjorn on foot (he really needs a pod though) and rifleman sniping stuff, it works out pretty well. I faced an army with 2 land speeders, 2 vindicators, 2 razorbacks and a whirlwind, thinking I would be crushed by the mass vehicles, however it went the other way pretty quickly. Alpha strike got first blood and pulled lots of fire while TWC ran up the field. Turn 2, most his anti tank was down and the dreadnoughts were free to do whatever.

Long Fangs are much easier to kill than a Dreadnought, and the Dreadnought can fire while moving. It seems much more sensible at the moment.

However - Dreadnoughts are elites and unless you're running Champions of Fenris, you only get 3 with ObSec pods. If you *ARE* running Champions, the pods *aren't* ObSec

I almost exclusively run Champs of fenris. Losing objective secured isn't as bad as everyone on the internet makes it out to be. I rarely face armies that spam troops, and I generally use my pods very aggressively, which doesn't always land them on an objective.

Are pods for elite choices objective secured? I thought only troop drop pods were objective secured.

As for that list, I am considering dropping Bjorn, or squeezing in room for him to be in a pod. Currently he doesn't do all that much. However with him in a pod, I would want to round up to 5 pods for a 3 pod alpha strike, so I need to free 70pt, which doesn't seem really easy.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Are pods for elite choices objective secured? I thought only troop drop pods were objective secured.

No. Right.

 Araenion wrote:
My current planed loudout for the Long Fangs is with 4 Plasma Cannons in Imperial bunker with Coms relay and Ammo dump. AV 14, re-rolling reserves, re-rolling 1's, 4 S7 AP2 blasts for 210 points. It frees up a FA slot for an empty drop pod (so 2 full ones can drop in T1) and they work the relay so my Stormwolf arrives reliably. It's a pretty nice little package that works really well for my army.

I was going to run 4 or 5 plasma cannon long fangs myself, but I don't plan on the bunker having a comms relay because the Space Wolf detachment will get me the guaranteed Stormwolf in turn 2 anyway. I will definitely be using an ammo dump and probably void shields though. I may only run one drop pod. I've still got to buy and assemble a few things for my space wolves because I haven't used them since 3rd edition.

I always play Champs too. So no automatic reserves for me. I don't want Void shields because my opponents won't target it then. 4 plasma blasts are deadly, but not really a game changer, unlike my line of Wolf cavalry charging toward them. I don't need protection from alpha strike melta squads because they'd be insane to target anything else than my heavy hitters and I have an amazing bubblewrap in F. wolves.

gwarsh41 wrote:I almost exclusively run Champs of fenris. Losing objective secured isn't as bad as everyone on the internet makes it out to be. I rarely face armies that spam troops, and I generally use my pods very aggressively, which doesn't always land them on an objective.

I usually split my force between a CotGW for my elites/TWC and a CAD for my troops

gwarsh41 wrote:Are pods for elite choices objective secured? I thought only troop drop pods were objective secured.

No, elite pods are not ObSec.... TBH I can't remember what (if anything) I was thinking..... I was probably drunk

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I would rather take 650pt of dreadnoughts in drop pods with similar equipment.
2 multimelta dreads in pods
2 plasma cannon dreds in pods
1 lascannon dreadnought.
660pt

Sure you don't have the same firepower, but you have better alpha strike power, as all your long fangs will snap fire first turn but the melta.

plus you almost double your units. 4 pods instead of 3, and 5 units instead of 3. You also have a decent enough deterrent from assault. Where every army will gladly throw anything at your long fangs to prevent them from firing, not everyone will toss a 5 man tactical squad at a dreadnought. Then your platform is mobile, which on melta, I argue will be better, plus the ability to assault vehicles and all sorts of other goodies while your drop pods hold the objectives.

I ran a list with only dreadnoughts and TWC twice recently and did pretty well.

Bjorn(helfrost)
Shield/axe + pod
dual heavy flamers +pod
multimelta heavy flamer +pod
dual autocannon
2 units of 4 TWC
stormwolf

The dreadnoughts are amazing fire magnets, allowing the TWC to get to their targets (the heavy weapons teams and vehicles usually) on turn 2. With 3 pods, bjorn on foot (he really needs a pod though) and rifleman sniping stuff, it works out pretty well. I faced an army with 2 land speeders, 2 vindicators, 2 razorbacks and a whirlwind, thinking I would be crushed by the mass vehicles, however it went the other way pretty quickly. Alpha strike got first blood and pulled lots of fire while TWC ran up the field. Turn 2, most his anti tank was down and the dreadnoughts were free to do whatever.

Good feedback. I think a few points got missed, though. The Long Fang loadout was only going to have the one pod, that unit is roughly 150 or so so it's basically a sucide unit. Albeit one that, if it survives, will cause problems next turn. I figured, "ehh. It's the same cost as a dread, just about, but with more melta shots and can go to ground or win light assaults." The jury's still out on this one, I have to try it out. But I don't know if a Dread at the same price would always be better. Definitely so against non-mech opponents.

The other two units of Plasma Cannons and Lascannons were going to be deployed elsewhere, not via pods. I'm not so hot on Pods lately. Even if you dedicate the army to it, you still fight piecemeal unless you pay the tax for some unused ones here or there. These guys would be deployed, potentially both in and on the battlements of the Bunker.

I *do* own five pods and numerous dreadnoughts, so I suppose I could give it a shot. They just seem so piddly in melee and their weapons loadouts are just so...meh. I feel like 650 points of Dreads would not do nearly as well offensively over the course of a game as those Fangs would.

Though...I wonder would it would be like to do both. That'd be pretty gross, eh? Four pods of Dreadnoughts (maybe one of them Bjorn), along with triple Long Fangs? You guys are probably right that the long range static Fang units would be better served by cheaper dreads, but I have to try it first before I commit either way.

I'm also considering a 140pt 5-man Scout unit, toting a combi-melta Sergeant, meltagun, and two plasma pistols. Infiltrating in the right place and then popping out for a good melta shot might be decent alongside a drop strike.

What I want to know is what exactly would I fill the rest of this army with? Seems like Troops are not a good choice anymore, no matter what build I make their points always seem really egregious (unless they are Blood Claws, but then you have the problem of them being inflexible).

How do you guys feel about the Troops units?