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Nagash is a nice model, I like him

That being said, I wonder if the upcoming materials related to him kill the rumors of a lower model count WHFB in the near future? (not that I truly believed them, and having a 1000-point big guy goes against of lower point games IMO).

I'm not sure why people are concerned so much about nagash dying to a cannon. Stick him against some terrain piece and just summon stuff all game until you opponent loses.

Not only does he get 3x the amount he can summon but he gets 3x the range (i'm not sure what the the range normally will be?). This means he can summon block stuff easily.

As for what the model looks like, who cares, we all will either like or hate things differently.

NickF509 wrote:
I'm not sure why people are concerned so much about nagash dying to a cannon. Stick him against some terrain piece and just summon stuff all game until you opponent loses.

Not only does he get 3x the amount he can summon but he gets 3x the range (i'm not sure what the the range normally will be?). This means he can summon block stuff easily.

As for what the model looks like, who cares, we all will either like or hate things differently.

Out of my head the range is normally 24".

Sceletor and Mumm-Rah called,

They want thier clothes back.

I'm hoping that the talk about fantasy going skirmish is true. I have more the enough to tide me over until we find out if the other shoe drops.

If that is supposed to be nagash....

Don't bother. Just use a generic 1/6 scale plastic sceleton, such as one of those human body ones and go on ahead and do one up of your own.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Wait....so he is 1000 points? So can only use him in a 4000 point game....damn :p haha

Why does everyone hate the old Nagash model, I think it has a certain charm to it.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Wait....so he is 1000 points? So can only use him in a 4000 point game....damn :p haha

Do you see where they are going with this now?

 Lou_Cypher wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Aliathra was rescued by the High Elves but she is in a magical slumber.....................

Hmmm, I don't think that's how it went though. According to the Dwarves book that continued that small story, they rescue her once, and then Mannfred stole her again right under Tyrion's nose.

I read the Dwarves section and didn't it just say that they were unable to defeat Mannfreds forces - the Elves book has Mannfred return to confront the Elvish elites but she was still in their hands?

Can you quote the story bit in Dwarves as its the one book I don't have just read it?

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Wait....so he is 1000 points? So can only use him in a 4000 point game....damn :p haha

Do you see where they are going with this now?

Somehow I wouldn't be surprised...

Underling: "Warhammer Fantasy Battle® isn't selling at expected levels sir!"

Kronie & Ko: "Fine then, we'll give them what they *really* want! Bigger Fantasy games!"

 Accolade wrote:

 Avrik_Shasla wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Wait....so he is 1000 points? So can only use him in a 4000 point game....damn :p haha

Do you see where they are going with this now?

Somehow I wouldn't be surprised...

Underling: "Warhammer Fantasy Battle® isn't selling at expected levels sir!"

Kronie & Ko: "Fine then, we'll give them what they *really* want! Bigger Fantasy games!"

Basically super heavies in fantasy, but fantasy has the percentage system preventing 40k levels of stupidity in small games..... for now.

I played in a 1k tourney that likely would have had many armies able to take him out, some on turn 1. my empire list had A Steam Tank, lvl 4 of light.

Another ogre list had iron blaster mourn fang and guts. Would be good.

Would be really hard to hide him from camo skinks.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Wait....so he is 1000 points? So can only use him in a 4000 point game....damn :p haha

Yeah it makes him pretty much pointless.. Any character above 625 simply isn't usable in the vast majority of games.

I wonder if the legion list will include a rule that lets you take him in smaller games. Maybe something that lets him take hero and lord points.


Basically what they're doing with formations in 40k.

 angelofvengeance wrote:

weeble1000 wrote:

 DiabolicAl wrote:
I seem to be the only one that really doesn't care for this in the slightest. It looks like they have tried to make an Undead Treeman. In fact i would go as far as to describe it as smegging awful. Maybe better pics will help but i am not holding my breath.

Yea, I don't understand why people think this model is anything other than a POS. It is a horrible composition. I think people are just excited about it being Nagash...and not as horrible as the old model.

While I respect that this is your opinion, if you don't have anything nice to say, then keep it to yourself please. You're welcome to sculpt your own if you feel that it could be better...

What? Do you mean if I don't have anything nice to say about the model I should keep it to myself? Because that is what I was talking about. Here I thought that we could discuss miniatures on a website dedicated to discussing miniatures and miniatures games.

Or do you mean that if I don't have something nice to say to the people posting in this thread that I should keep it to myself? As you can tell from my posts, I don't believe anyone's opinion here is 'wrong' or 'bad'. I simply don't think the model looks very good and am surprised that others disagree.

What do you think about the model? What do you like about it or dislike about it?

'Cause that's what I want in Fantasy... larger battles!

Ugh. I cannot imagine the army cost to have a VC undead horde at 4000pts and have board wide summoning on top of that. You also don't have a Vampire Lord at the point level, correct? I never played VC, only against, but don't you need some dude to make sure they don't all start crumbling?

Nagash would be that guy. Also remember that he isn't added to Vampire Counts or Tomb Kings. He's added to undead legions - whatever that may entail.

 Mr Morden wrote:


I read the Dwarves section and didn't it just say that they were unable to defeat Mannfreds forces - the Elves book has Mannfred return to confront the Elvish elites but she was still in their hands?

Can you quote the story bit in Dwarves as its the one book I don't have just read it?

That's the fun thing about it. The VC book mentioned the events involving Mannfred conspiring to bring back Nagash so he set a trap for the High Elves and captured Aliathra.

The High Elves book mentioned the efforts to rescue her so they were bros with the dwarves. And then it ends saying they're confronted by Mannfred's army.

Now in the Dwarves Book, we see what happens immediately after going:

"Even as his minions perished beneath gromril hammers, Mannfred hacked his way through the Elf ranks, wounding or slaying many of their heroes and once again captured Aliathra, spiriting her away into the darkness. Thus was a great victory soured. To make matters worse, Tyrion showed no gratitude to the Dwarfs, instead blaming them for the loss of Aliathra."

And now Nagash is making a return? Coincidence? I think not.

I'm interested to find out was this "Undead Legions" is and also am digging what look like the new Spirit Hosts flying around Nagash. I don't even have an theories on Undead Legions. Possibly Wight King-type leaders and skeleton units but none of the things that make Tomb Kings or Vampires unique (so like no sphinx or vampire in the army)? Possibly? It sounds like the Lore of Undead might be something like Malefic Daemonology from 40k where all the spells are just different summoning spells for Undead units.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
[
Quality passive aggressive posting and a great example of how posts seemingly commenting on the quality of the product in fact comment on the consumer of said product.

Quite right, quite right! Passive aggressive mucking about is one of my pet peeves on internet forums, and while I was trying to be somewhat tactful I see that it was a pretty poor and thinly-veiled attempt. So let's fix that now.

This model is bad, for reasons I and others have already stated. Not as bad as the old Nagash model, but bad. I don't quite know why people can look at that pic, avoid seeing the obvious deficiencies, and instead applaud it as a fantastic design. I can only guess that, yes, their judgement is impaired by a number of factors, including:

A) The near-legendary status of Nagash in the real world (of Warhammer players, at least) as well as the WaFaBa world; the poor reception of the previous model (going so far as to 'not count' in some minds, I'd guess) and the long period without an official, in-production model or up-to-date rules. The thing is, the return of Nagash is a fairly momentous occasion in the game (and as desperate as Primarch models: I seem to recall a similar studio attitude about not bringing them [back] in-game because of their sheer power and godlike status. Same reason the C'tan were downgraded to 'shards'.) but that doesn't automatically mean that the long-anticipated model is good. It merely means that the long-anticipated model exists.

B) Passive or even bad attributes that get confused for 'good design'. Size, for one. GW players seem to be especially prone to the old jokey male stereotype that 'big toys are better'; only in this case it gets applied to more literal toys (and hats) rather than cars or power tools.
Also, the misconception that 'covered with detail' = 'good sculpting'. Again, that doesn't indicate that good sculpting is present, only that there's a lot of sculpting present. I've seen non- and ex-GW gamers complain about how the amount of fiddly detail on some GW models takes away the pleasure of painting, and I can't disagree. In addition, there's the nature of the detail: from here it basically looks like gothic or venetian plate armour utterly cluttered and caked with bones. Bonez bonez bonez. This is not creative or imaginative. It's only the relative lack of head bones that prevents it being the complete apotheosis of one of the aspects (miniature design) that makes GW the laughing stock of the rest of the wargaming world.
Lastly, for this point, another of my pet peeves: a whole lot of wibbly, finicky detail meant to wow the credulous observer and distract them from the fact that it's a lot of superficial dressing over an also-unimaginative and pedestrian design. So he's finishing the casting of a powerful incantation. You can't see that, All you can see is him just standing there like a lemon, with one hand pointed skywards. How many other GW models, especially characters, are and were posed in the same way? The only thing that'd make it more cliched is if he did the Captain Morgan pose with one foot resting on a rock. Or a skull.
And that's not even touching the "buy this it's kewl and it'll win you loads of games!" rules.

C) The infantilised nature of GW that seems to be lapped up by it's fanboys. The attitude among 20-30 year-olds that GW's increasingly teen-targeted ranges have the bestest setting and bestest models and bestest rules, and how blessed you are to just sit there and allow GW to plop these jewel-like items of wonder in your lap (in exchange for scads of cash in excess of what similar wondrous jewel-like items cost) rather than bother with all that boring effort of taking control of your gaming and increasing your awareness outside the GWetto. The attitude that minis are just better if they're blinged up and badazz, dusted in skullz and spikez, looking more and more like kids' action figures. The attitude that the minis should have so many beneficial extra rules, (super)powers and arbitrary exceptions that sound more and more like a schoolyard game of bang-I-shot-you-nuh-uh-I-have-super-ultra-mega-forcefields-nuh-uh-I-have-hyper-uber-handwavium-bullets-that-blow-up-super-ultra-mega-forcefields, all shoved in to make you coo at it as if it means something interesting or ingenious or halfway mature, and make them appealing (to buy); and that all this cramming of complications, patches, speedbumps and OTT whims somehow makes Warhammer 'balanced' and 'competitive'.
All these attitudes that foster GW's attitudes, to the point where the upper management call you - YOU - sheep, that will buy any old crap they put out. Where 'the GW hobby is buying GW products'. Where they shaft the retailers and customers alike, worldwide, and try to do the same to component manufacturers, authors, and whoever else wanders into their narrow field of vision. All this uncritical - or worse - critical but otherwise unconditional hoovering-up of GW's offerings, to the point that GW and fans have become stuck in some vicious circle where worsening prices; bloated, planned-obsolescence rules; and goofy, lazy models are not only seen as normal but as a good thing by some. I've said elsewhere that GW is like the Justin Beiber of wargaming: widely popular and can at least carry a tune, but marketed to kids, churns out cheesy pablum, gobs on it's fans, and increasingly believes it's own hype and doesn't give a gak for anyone else. Only now have enough people grown up, wised up and had enough of GW's shenanigans to make a difference, but leaving GW so spoilt and inbred that it has little idea and little hope of turning round, becoming more mature and reasonable, or fixing itself in some way.

If you squee like a fanboy over this model just because it's there, it's big, it's covered in bones, and it has broken rules, you're still perpetuating that circle. Or - since the circle's collapsing anyway - the perception of GW gamers as brainwashed manchildren, even among other tabletop wargamers (who still play with toy soldiers!) with a more balanced hobby - which might still include GW games. If you don't like the thoughts that GW is up a creek, that your most beloved games are riddled with problems that either don't go away or are replaced or even added to with different problems, or that meany people laugh because you gleefully line up to empty your wallets to receive those problem games and shonky models, maybe it's not entirely down to GW, elitist grognards, or the fascist public. Maybe you should occasionally take a moment to look and consider.

'Cos Your Opinions Are Bad.

well said Vermis.

Meh, I don't really like it...it's...weird. The model doesn't look too bad for modern GW standards. The proportions are off, but the model is...ok.

It's just...well...it's only usuable at 4000+ points battles. That alone is...ugh. You can't proxy it for another regular caster because of its giant size. And what, to me, is the worst: the rules. If you want to play him effectively, you basically put him behind cannon-proof cover and then just have him standing there pumping out more undead.

How is that fun? Having a huge, impressive model that does nothing but sitting around in the backyard, basically becoming more of a marker? That's...not very fun promising. Meh :(

I'm really not sure why everyone keeps suggesting that he will "only be usable in 4000+ points battles".

We haven't seen what the "Undead Legions" army list does yet. For all we know, Nagash is the only choice for Lord/Heroes and thus he uses up all your points for that. Or that he gets fielded by himself and is your points allotment.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I'm really not sure why everyone keeps suggesting that he will "only be usable in 4000+ points battles".

We haven't seen what the "Undead Legions" army list does yet. For all we know, Nagash is the only choice for Lord/Heroes and thus he uses up all your points for that. Or that he gets fielded by himself and is your points allotment.

I prefer to judge based on what we have, not what there might be

The book explicitely states that he is a Lord choice, though.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Meh, I don't really like it...it's...weird. The model doesn't look too bad for modern GW standards. The proportions are off, but the model is...ok.

It's just...well...it's only usuable at 4000+ points battles. That alone is...ugh. You can't proxy it for another regular caster because of its giant size. And what, to me, is the worst: the rules. If you want to play him effectively, you basically put him behind cannon-proof cover and then just have him standing there pumping out more undead.

How is that fun? Having a huge, impressive model that does nothing but sitting around in the backyard, basically becoming more of a marker? That's...not very fun promising. Meh :(

Hierotitan as well as Khermitic Titan and Necolith Colosus (Last two from Monsterous Arcanum) do not have a model, this would be cool stand in for any of those. Base size does matter though.

Personally I am going to reserve judgement on how good the model is or is not until we have better quality pictures and a lot more of them. A proper sense of scale and 360 degree shots will help me decide whether I like it or not.

It might be a good choice in Storm of Magic.

The expansion nobody plays because it's terribly balanced and is solely based on dice rolling!

So is my Mac being ridiculous, or did all the pictures being hosted disappear?

I only see the pic of the WoW liche.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Meh, I don't really like it...it's...weird. The model doesn't look too bad for modern GW standards. The proportions are off, but the model is...ok.

It's just...well...it's only usuable at 4000+ points battles. That alone is...ugh. You can't proxy it for another regular caster because of its giant size. And what, to me, is the worst: the rules. If you want to play him effectively, you basically put him behind cannon-proof cover and then just have him standing there pumping out more undead.

How is that fun? Having a huge, impressive model that does nothing but sitting around in the backyard, basically becoming more of a marker? That's...not very fun promising. Meh :(

Well, and that's where the dilemma is IMO. Either the model never gets used because it is price at an absurdly high point level (and thus generally purchased for display) or they shoehorn the model in to the regular game, thereby devaluing all of the other models on a game-by-game basis that the customer paid so much money for.

What I think GW should really be doing is building narrative books with these models involved, particularly in scenario missions or something. Give them a decent amount of scenario support to integrate them into the game without breaking the regular game in the process.

 Vermis wrote:

...as well as the WaFaBa world...

...

Please, enough with that already.

No way is that:

1) Something people really say, or even want to say, read or hear.

2) easier to type than just plain ol' WFB

Having said all that - RULE #1 in here everyone, please!

Opinions - we all have them, and they can be different!

I highly agree. Models like Nagash are far too powerful to be represented on tabletop, similar to the C'tan in 40k. Those models are awesome for specific scenarios, e.g. Nagash fighting back invaders. In a regular battle, it feels shoehorned in :(