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Budzerker wrote:
So when is that vote on the Invisibility Nerf supposed to happen Reece?

Time is a' tickin' and people need to plan their lists.

Has invisibility been shown to be unstoppable?

Has there been a lot of tournaments won with armies using invisibility?

Why do you think it needs a nerf?

With Forge World, LoW, and Imperial Knights invisibility is the least of peoples worries.

 Blackmoor wrote:

Budzerker wrote:
So when is that vote on the Invisibility Nerf supposed to happen Reece?

Time is a' tickin' and people need to plan their lists.

Has invisibility been shown to be unstoppable?

Has there been a lot of tournaments won with armies using invisibility?

Why do you think it needs a nerf?

With Forge World, LoW, and Imperial Knights invisibility is the least of peoples worries.

No.

Some.

I don't.

And I agree.

If your not aware, Reece posted on Frontline Gaming that he will be taking a vote on nerfing it down to BS1, 5+ in CC. So blasts hit it, and it's much easier in cc.

I just want to know when it's going to happen so we can get a ruling on it as soon as possible.

Invis is one of those powers that when the right unit gets it, the game is mostly over.

But it is not about it being unbeatable. A good general will be able to beat it with the right list. As with many of their rules modifications(such as 2+ to 4+) its about it just not being fun. Even with most of the other powerful units you can at least do something, remove a few models have at least a LITTLE back and forth. However with invis, its just a matter of one player killing models, one player picking up models and not getting to do anything.

its why things like the C'tan are in general not allowed. The right lists can kill it, however for a majority of players(who make up most of the GT attendence) it is not possible. I faced an invis revenant titan all game and got really lucky and was able to kill it, however I could see it not being fun for most people to play against.

Budzerker wrote:

 Blackmoor wrote:

Budzerker wrote:
So when is that vote on the Invisibility Nerf supposed to happen Reece?

Time is a' tickin' and people need to plan their lists.

Has invisibility been shown to be unstoppable?

Has there been a lot of tournaments won with armies using invisibility?

Why do you think it needs a nerf?

With Forge World, LoW, and Imperial Knights invisibility is the least of peoples worries.

No.

Some.

I don't.

And I agree.

If your not aware, Reece posted on Frontline Gaming that he will be taking a vote on nerfing it down to BS1, 5+ in CC. So blasts hit it, and it's much easier in cc.

I just want to know when it's going to happen so we can get a ruling on it as soon as possible.

Since he never posted the voting after that article, it's safe to assume they're not going to make any changes to Invisibility mainly. What you can expect is an exit poll after the tournament for some feedback. It'll most likely be there where you can vote whether you want Invisibility nerfed or not at their next events.

But for this event, I'd assume that there isn't going to be any changes.

Have they come up with the army composition rules yet?

That's already been out for a long time now:


http://www.frontlinegaming.org/las-vegas-open-hotel-booking/las-vegas-open-2015-warhammer-40k-championships/

 jy2 wrote:
That's already been out for a long time now:


http://www.frontlinegaming.org/las-vegas-open-hotel-booking/las-vegas-open-2015-warhammer-40k-championships/

Neat, although I'm sure some Dark Eldar will be like, booooo.

We'll vote on Invis, I have just been absolutely swamped with work and have not been able to do it.

Just curious, how are you all dealing with units that award special victory points for doing things? As that seems to be a rule that formations etc.. are getting now.

For example : Apotheosis, D3 VPs if your warlord is killed by a AP1 or 2 weapon.

Or the Scalpel Squadron D3 VPs for First Blood.

Hollismason wrote:
Just curious, how are you all dealing with units that award special victory points for doing things? As that seems to be a rule that formations etc.. are getting now.

For example : Apotheosis, D3 VPs if your warlord is killed by a AP1 or 2 weapon.

Or the Scalpel Squadron D3 VPs for First Blood.

All those bonus VP's apply to the Secondary missions.

JY2 has it!

@Thread

The Horus Heresy 30k event for the LVO has some exciting news! The first 30 players to sign up get special issue Dog Tags for the event! These are awesome, steel dog tags that show that you're a vet of the event! If you're already signed up you are good to go. There aren't many spots left to get the free Dog Tags, so act quickly and get your tickets!

Budzerker wrote:

 Brothererekose wrote:

Budzerker wrote:
So when is that vote on the Invisibility Nerf supposed to happen Reece?
Time is a' tickin' and people need to plan their lists.

Mid-November, and you're concerned about Invis and list construction? C'mon man, ... if anything, it is time to start training livers for Beer Hammer. *That* is something that requires marathon-level advanced preparation time.
pfff. "Lists" .

While I take my beer-hammer training very seriously...I also put a lot of work into my modeling and army building. I want to know as soon as possible which army I need to start building and painting up...

Ah. I take note of your commitment to a good lookin' army, respectfully.

I know *that* takes time (grumble ... grumble .... 4 hours for a WarpSpider .... grumble ).

Cheers, sir.

 Reecius wrote:
We'll vote on Invis, I have just been absolutely swamped with work and have not been able to do it.

Why have a vote? Do we vote on everything that his hard to deal with in this game? How about a vote on Wave Serpents, Tau Firebase Cadre, Adamantine Lance, or Grav Guns, etc?

Now I am coming at this from someone who does not use Invisibility, so I have no stake in the vote, but why comp things that have been shown not to be game breaking in there power? If Invisibility is that powerful why are no armies that are using it winning GTs?

I thought you were Team 0 Comp, not team Vote For Comp?

You should also look to revisit the re-rollable 2++ save because that is so old news. The screamerstar never took off because you can tar pit it without Hit-and-Run. Now that the Seercouncil lost it's Hit-and-Run it is no longer viable.

Seercouncil still has Hit and Run, FYI.

But, that is is not the point, Blackmoor. It's not utter domination by lists. It's that the objective for us is to host FUN events. That is primary. Things like Invis and the 2+ reroll are simply not fun for most people. We vote to get a feel for what the majority of people want to have in their games. We don't arbitrarily make changes.

Considering that our events consistently sell out while events in many other places in the country have declining attendance, I think we are doing the right thing. Some people may not like every aspect of what we do (or other TOs that do institute some rules changes) but that is acceptable if the majority of players have more fun and are more excited to come and enjoy gaming events.

 Reecius wrote:


But, that is is not the point, Blackmoor. It's not utter domination by lists. It's that the objective for us is to host FUN events. That is primary. .

That is exactly the argument against Imperial Knights and Adamantine Lance. You can either beat it or you can't, and generally neither player has fun because of that.

I don't like to see changes to the rules. Even if a unit has Insta Gizz it's not like they will always successfully be able to cast it. If we're going to change rules how about a nerf to Serpent Shield - it's ridiculous.

You can plan for lance and serpents to an extent. Invis/2+ re-roll there is little you can do without gimping your army against a lot of other targets(especially with the limited detachments).

Secondly, I get the impression they are avoiding targeting specific books/models but rather main rulebook rules that cause issues(such as the super-heavy walkers/infiltrate)

The point is just about everybody hates something... Knights and Wave Serpents are way up there. The change to 2+ re rollable did not stop Jetseer council from winning out. Some said it actually backfired as players wasted their shooting on JSC.

Is anyone else having trouble with the waiting list? or just me?

 Reecius wrote:



Considering that our events consistently sell out while events in many other places in the country have declining attendance, I think we are doing the right thing. Some people may not like every aspect of what we do (or other TOs that do institute some rules changes) but that is acceptable if the majority of players have more fun and are more excited to come and enjoy gaming events.

As a long time BAO and now a LVO fan I have to say that Reecius has it correct here. They do an incredible job on making sure the Players that spend a large amount of their money and time (vacation time as well) to come to their Events enjoy themselves and look forward to coming back again. I do not envy the hard choices these TOs have to make for these really big events. I might not agree with all of the choices myself, but I do understand them. I go to their events knowing this and am always prepared for these different formats, and I am always super excited to be going.

@extremefreak17

You can just email me directly if you have issues with the wait list in the cart. I will add you to the list.

@Dugg

Thanks for the support.

@Blackmoor

Again, you miss the point.

It is not fun to not participate in a game of 40K. Things like a 2+ reroll save and invis can effectively make a unit unkillable. You don't get to interact with the unit, but simply watch it act with impunity. Good players can and will get around it. But again, that is not the point. The point is that it makes the game become one player acting, the other watching, which is not fun.

Knights and Serpents can be obnoxious and can be difficult to destroy but they do not have the same type of defense. It's apples and oranges and not a valid counter argument.

Plus, we haven't even voted yet, this may not come to pass. Vote with what you want to see. If it does get in, and you truly hate it to the point where you don't think you will enjoy yourself, we have a double digit waiting list. There are plenty of folks that would be happy to have your spot.

I don't say that to be rude, it's just the truth. The proposed change is a minor tweak, not a ban, not a nerf, just to make it manageable as we did with the 2+ reroll save which has been gladly accepted by the community.

Yeah, you can't satisfy everyone all of the time. The best that you can do is to try to make it funner for the majority.

Exactly. We have and will violate the sacred cow of "not chaning the rules" if we believe it makes the game more fun for more people AND our attendees want it. 7th ed is a blast with restrictions, it's a total gak show in a competitive setting without them. You change the rules when you limit detachments, you change the rules when you limit or ban lords of war, etc. It's hypocritical to say changing some rules is OK, and others not.

MMmmmmm Cow!

Reecius seriously you should have discussed you want to change rules before you sold any tickets .

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Reecius seriously you should have discussed you want to change rules before you sold any tickets .

Well, it is not that big of a change, just makes them be able to be shot with templates and blasts. I should only effect demon armies and a few cent stars.

The players who are going to the LVO are there for the friends, community and hanging out in Vegas. They should be tournament players who know how to roll with the punches, so a rule change should not be a big deal to them.

Heck, GW will release a lot of data slates and a codex or two by then that will completely change and invalidate some armies,

Note: I do not mind rule changes. I have an army that might have a re-rollable 2+ save but I don't care about that change. If you think that a rule/unit/whatever needs to be changed or modified I am ok with that. What I do not like is voting over it.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Reecius seriously you should have discussed you want to change rules before you sold any tickets .

If anyone has really decided to not attend due to these changes...

I'll buy your ticket.

Seriously

 Blackmoor wrote:
What I do not like is voting over it.

Pfff. You and other democrats. Commie-pinko.




@Reece,
One change of the last LVO I did *not* appreciate was the promise of PBR ... and instead, a Bait-and-Switch of a bar stocked with Heineken and other quality beers.

Welcher.

I really like what they do in combining RAW and RAI with their rulings as well as keeping things functional takes priority lol.

Also I am a competitive player, but I don't take typical lists or lists that are actually affected by these rules changes that aim to sort of exploit the rules/sticky areas of the rules. Means that I can bring my non-optimised list and still have a good showing.

Good thing my army has been ready since BAO.