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Appreciate it buddy, thanks.

 Reecius wrote:
Fair questions, get asked these all the time. Voting is only done by those who have their ticket, so it is all peers, and it is the equitable way to do this.

The proposition is to leave it alone, or to alter it to the target unit hitting them at BS1 with shooting, and on 5's in assault as they have done in the UK. It is still the best defensive power in the game that way, just toned down so that templates and blasts can hit invis units and you hit as if you were WS 1 in assault. It's a relatively mild change so that folks who use it can still use it, just not so OTT, similar to what we did with the 2+ reroll save.

And hey, it may get voted down.

Fair enough. Significant change, but not major enough to have to throw an army list out the window. Carry on. Looking forward to getting the poll.

A true warrior seeks to win not to change the game .

Reecius, will you be updating us here reagarding Adlance, Invis, and other LVO changes that are voted on this week?

 Dozer Blades wrote:
A true warrior seeks to win not to change the game .

A true warrior seeks to win despite changes to the game.

I'm sure all the Tau players are overjoyed .

After listening to Signals from the Frontline it seems like Reecus has a dislike of Invisibility. That is odd from someone who uses the Raptors chapter master and thinks nothing about how broken hive tyrants are.

I guess because Jeff plays Nids it is just a matter of the devil you know...

I will be voting against invisibility since I will not be using it, and it will cripple the only viable Grey Knight build, and one of the two competitive demon builds.

 Blackmoor wrote:
After listening to Signals from the Frontline it seems like Reecus has a dislike of Invisibility. That is odd from someone who uses the Raptors chapter master and thinks nothing about how broken hive tyrants are.

Hive Tyrants aren't broken. They cost quite a bit for what they bring to the table, unlike things like the Tranny C'Tan or Annihilation barges.

Perhaps spamming Hive Tyrants is broken. Just like spamming Wave Serpents, Riptides, or Imperial Knights, it can leave an opponent with very little way to interact with their opposing army except to pick their models up off the table.

I hope that one of our votes is to count a Codex Specific Detachment as a CAD in the two detachment limit. It would be a very, very marginal reduction of spam (4 Max flyrants instead of 5), but it would be a small step toward limiting spam, and reducing the Rock-Paper-Scissors factor, and the outcome of the vote would take a temperature of the Championship attendees to see how interested they are in more meaningful changes to 40k army composition rules.

tag8833 wrote:
Hive Tyrants aren't broken. They cost quite a bit for what they bring to the table, unlike things like the Tranny C'Tan or Annihilation barges.

Perhaps spamming Hive Tyrants is broken. Just like spamming Wave Serpents, Riptides, or Imperial Knights, it can leave an opponent with very little way to interact with their opposing army except to pick their models up off the table. At least with invisibility they can at least be assaulted.

You do not need "6s" to hit any of those, and they can be targeted with blasts, templates, and can be assaulted unlike Hive Tyrants.

In 6th edition they were not too bad because:
#1. They could be grounded multiple times and then they could be shot with normal BS.
#2. They could not use their psychic powers and shoot at the same time (no psychic phase).
#3. You were limited to only 2 of them.

Now they fly around and they cast their psychic powers and shoot 12 TL strength 6 shots and are immune to most shooting.

I am not saying that we should ban hive tyrants, all I am saying is they argument against invisibility seems silly when you have those things flying around. .

If you are worried about hive tyrants maybe bring some more AA. IS there anything you can bring to ignore invisibility? Well I can... triple mawlocs bitches!

Knights do a good job of ignoring invisibility. Stomp attacks for the win...

Mawlocs, LoW Stomps, Vector Strikes, screamer turbo attacks, tank shock/ramming, Hammer of Wrath, all ignore invisibility. Then of course there is always the 'power denied' factor depending on your opponent.

I think the only thing we've established here definitely is that we all think different things are too good or not good enough.

yeah except when it comes to wyches, they are OVER THE TOP UBER POWERFUL

OrdoSean wrote:
If you are worried about hive tyrants maybe bring some more AA. IS there anything you can bring to ignore invisibility? Well I can... triple mawlocs bitches!

I think you will see a lot more skyfire at the LVO than we have seen at the last GTs.

It is all about riding the meta roller coaster.

 z3n1st wrote:
yeah except when it comes to wyches, they are OVER THE TOP UBER POWERFUL

Agreed.

I say, we should vote to ban wyches.

 jy2 wrote:

 z3n1st wrote:
yeah except when it comes to wyches, they are OVER THE TOP UBER POWERFUL

Agreed.

I say, we should vote to ban wyches.

Seconded... oh wait gw already did that for us.

I think we can all agree the problem with all these powerful builds like those that use Invisibility, or AdLance, Pentyrant, Centstar, Seerstar, Serpent spam, Triptide... all boils down to those damned wyches.

We need to nerf them and be done with it. Do the right thing, say NO to wyches.

Since this won't be an open vote I look forward to seeing the eventual results. Hopefully they will be posted along with the questions for those of us unable to attend this year but interested none the less.

Insta Gizz gives assault armiss a chance to compete versus all the Gehy super shooty armies that have tons of broken rules.

I'm gonna get my nerfbat ready to play some nerfball.

That's the situation for some of us.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Since this won't be an open vote I look forward to seeing the eventual results. Hopefully they will be posted along with the questions for those of us unable to attend this year but interested none the less.

It will be! We always post the data, whichever way the wind blows.

@z3n1st

Lol, those damned Wyches!

Are you just going to email blast us all with a poll or something Reece?

Yes. Going out tonight.

Would you please stop giving other players the ability to take away options from me? Last year I lost access to Be'lakor because you lumped everything in and banned dataslates because everybody hated the Tau formation. A year later, you're going to let players vote to nerf him.

If you want to change the rules, change the rules, and do it before I buy the sodding ticket to your event so I know what I'm getting into. I just took the poll and was expecting more than one question. Why are we only voting on one thing? Where was the Adamantine Lance question? How about the Serpent Shield question? How about the Warp Spider question? The Thunderwolf Cavalry question? If you let barrage weapons hit invis units, my Flesh Hounds will be mostly wiped out in a single turn of shooting from Wyverns. Can I vote to nerf Wyverns?

Epic fail .

I for one greatly appreciate the poll. I'm eager to see the results, and hope that such polls can be used to better understand the 40k player base, and their tolerance for marginal tweaks that promote a more fun or more RAW game.

ETA. Also greatly appreciated because my local tourney is stealing the LVO format, and coming up fast, so we need to inform our attendees of any rules tweaks like this ASAP.

slaede wrote:
Would you please stop giving other players the ability to take away options from me? Last year I lost access to Be'lakor because you lumped everything in and banned dataslates because everybody hated the Tau formation. A year later, you're going to let players vote to nerf him.

If you want to change the rules, change the rules, and do it before I buy the sodding ticket to your event so I know what I'm getting into.

Amen brother. I feel exactly the same way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tag8833 wrote:
I for one greatly appreciate the poll. I'm eager to see the results, and hope that such polls can be used to better understand the 40k player base, and their tolerance for marginal tweaks that promote a more fun or more RAW game.

Just like the change to the re-rollable 2++ this is also NOT a minor or marginal tweak. The change to invisibility makes a unit that is invisible 100% easier to hit in close combat and more than 100% easier to hit with shooting (since it can now be hit with template and blast weapons). This is actually a VERY LARGE change to a very specific power in the game. There may only be a few armies that can reliably get this power - so I expect everyone else to vote for the change, but let's not kid ourselves about how big the change is to those players that built a list around this power, have spent a few month painting and modelling and may now find out that their hammer unit just became 50% less durable.

slaede wrote:
Would you please stop giving other players the ability to take away options from me? Last year I lost access to Be'lakor because you lumped everything in and banned dataslates because everybody hated the Tau formation. A year later, you're going to let players vote to nerf him.

If you want to change the rules, change the rules, and do it before I buy the sodding ticket to your event so I know what I'm getting into. I just took the poll and was expecting more than one question. Why are we only voting on one thing? Where was the Adamantine Lance question? How about the Serpent Shield question? How about the Warp Spider question? The Thunderwolf Cavalry question? If you let barrage weapons hit invis units, my Flesh Hounds will be mostly wiped out in a single turn of shooting from Wyverns. Can I vote to nerf Wyverns?

Didn't you win Best Daemon last year despite playing without Be'lakor? Well, if you can do that...and if Alex Fennell can win the tournament despite the 2+/4+ re-rollable nerf....then consider this a true challenge to your generalship. Even with the nerf to Invisibility, it's still a very good power.

BTW, if it's any consolation, I voted No to the nerf even though I won't be running Invisibility.