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Hello everyone. My first post here.

I collect chaos space marines, and i am reading alot about this game.

I just realised, after hearing that chosen is bad for so long, that they are not bad, or expensive if you think about it.

A squad of 10 chosen has 20 more close combat attacks than an unupgraded 10 man squad of csm.
This, at a cost of 30 points more than csm.

Why are people concidering them bad again?

Who wouldnt pay 30 points for 20 extra cc attacks?

In addition they can take more special weapons.

Is it just because they are elite?

Hope others here like chaos and will discuss various chaos related things with me in times to come.

Their biggest issue is actually just the same issue that all of CSM's suffer: lack of a cheap (or even dedicated) assault transport. Even something as simple as an open topped rhino would make them much more usable.

Chosen have increased offensive power over regular marines, but have no additional defenses. I use them with my black legion army in 5 man squads hiding in rhinos. I can get a heavy weapon and a special weapon or two special weapons to shoot out of the hatch while I scoot around to objectives.

How are you getting 30 points? Chosen are 5 points per model more than CSM

So 50 points for 20 closecombat attacks.


50 points adds up, it is a lot, for something that is useable in combat. 6th and 7th edition are not friendly for most combat models.

Yeah, they're worth a look at if you're doing Black Legion and playing FOC, because they can fulfill your Troops Choice with some punch.

But they die just like any other marine, and those extra attacks may never even come into play if your opponent has good firepower and undertsands their rules.

Chosen are overpriced in the sense that they take 40+ points of casualties before they even get to where they deal damage at. Again, it's a problem of getting to the fight and they squish just like everything else in the long charge before they can punch. It's the same reason Genestealers and Khorne Berserkers and Mutilators and Howling Banshees and even simple Space Marine Assault squads are hung up for the edition. Assault has to be step one in an ARMY to make these units good and just a squad of assault or two squads isn't efficient enough to be worth the points. 90pts gives two Rhinos with Havocs to squads that need it. 150pts gives two Obliterators moving forward as mobile weapon batteries. Far more useful than a group of Chosen with their upgrades in a TAC list.

 Exergy wrote:
How are you getting 30 points? Chosen are 5 points per model more than CSM

So 50 points for 20 closecombat attacks.


50 points adds up, it is a lot, for something that is useable in combat. 6th and 7th edition are not friendly for most combat models.

You are right ofcourse.
I made a mistake.
I just doubled the cost of a squad of 5 for both of them.
Because to add five chosen was the same price as the squad, i just did the same to csm.

So yeah, 50 points is a lot more..

But if you give the csm ccw, then its only 30 pts diff.

That leaves it to 30 pts for 10 attacks, some of wich might be specialweapons if chosen. Pun lol.

If i had an option to give a squad 10 attacks extra, plus the option to equip more specialweapons for 30 pts, i think i might still do it.


I mean, if someone gave your warlord 10 attacks for 30, then everyone would have done it.



I would say, if you intend to try and get them in melee, then chosen is not bad.

Atleast if there is something else drawing fire, or cultists infront charging.





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The models i have, has made me go for an in your face tactic.

I run 5 raptors and one or two spawns on the side, and two squads of 10 cultists in front, to get something into melee and stop the shooting.

I currently run my five chosen behind this, with my terminator chaoslord in one of these squads, and a sorcerer aswell.
I also run my helbrute up to pressure.
In the back i have a forgefiend with 3 ectoplasma.

Do you think its woth it to add five chosen, to get the extra 15 attacks and five wounds?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Chosen are overpriced in the sense that they take 40+ points of casualties before they even get to where they deal damage at. Again, it's a problem of getting to the fight and they squish just like everything else in the long charge before they can punch. It's the same reason Genestealers and Khorne Berserkers and Mutilators and Howling Banshees and even simple Space Marine Assault squads are hung up for the edition. Assault has to be step one in an ARMY to make these units good and just a squad of assault or two squads isn't efficient enough to be worth the points. 90pts gives two Rhinos with Havocs to squads that need it. 150pts gives two Obliterators moving forward as mobile weapon batteries. Far more useful than a group of Chosen with their upgrades in a TAC list.

If the chosen take 40+ points of casualties before they get into combat, then csm take 25+ pts doing the same.
But when in combat, the tacs will with around 7 attacks not do nearly as much damage as the chosens 21. Thats 2/3 more damage per turn.

The tacs might lose to a 10 man tac squad, where the 50 points extra will let you win for sure, and then move on to the next target, or an objective.

Maybe it is just me who see the value, because i cant really shoot too much stuff after a turn or two, when everything is pretty much in melee.
This means an obliterator might not be so useful.

 jasper76 wrote:
Yeah, they're worth a look at if you're doing Black Legion and playing FOC, because they can fulfill your Troops Choice with some punch.

But they die just like any other marine, and those extra attacks may never even come into play if your opponent has good firepower and undertsands their rules.

but if you are playing Black Legion they are 20ppm.....

Black Legion usually take cultists to avoid the tax


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Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Chosen are overpriced in the sense that they take 40+ points of casualties before they even get to where they deal damage at. Again, it's a problem of getting to the fight and they squish just like everything else in the long charge before they can punch. It's the same reason Genestealers and Khorne Berserkers and Mutilators and Howling Banshees and even simple Space Marine Assault squads are hung up for the edition. Assault has to be step one in an ARMY to make these units good and just a squad of assault or two squads isn't efficient enough to be worth the points. 90pts gives two Rhinos with Havocs to squads that need it. 150pts gives two Obliterators moving forward as mobile weapon batteries. Far more useful than a group of Chosen with their upgrades in a TAC list.

If the chosen take 40+ points of casualties before they get into combat, then csm take 25+ pts doing the same.
But when in combat, the tacs will with around 7 attacks not do nearly as much damage as the chosens 21. Thats 2/3 more damage per turn.

The tacs might lose to a 10 man tac squad, where the 50 points extra will let you win for sure, and then move on to the next target, or an objective.

Maybe it is just me who see the value, because i cant really shoot too much stuff after a turn or two, when everything is pretty much in melee.
This means an obliterator might not be so useful.

Yes, but if those chosen take 200 points worth of damage they have 0 attacks.

Chosen cost a lot, and are vunerable to shooting. If you field them, your enemy is going to shoot them and they are never going to see combat.


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Chosen can be alright if taken as part of Cypher's dataslate.

Getting ATSKNF and infiltrate for free and getting cypher is a pretty good deal.

 Exergy wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Yeah, they're worth a look at if you're doing Black Legion and playing FOC, because they can fulfill your Troops Choice with some punch.

But they die just like any other marine, and those extra attacks may never even come into play if your opponent has good firepower and undertsands their rules.

but if you are playing Black Legion they are 20ppm.....

Black Legion usually take cultists to avoid the tax

Agreed. Just saying one way to go with Black Legion would be the "super-elite, no weak units" way. Its the only semi-OK use I could think of to take Chosen (I am unfamilar with the Cypher dataslate you referred to, so I can't comment on that)

Just to add to that, I think the only reason you'd want to play a Black Legion army is for the fluff, or you like the color scheme, both of which are totally legit reasons as good as any other. But rules-wise, its not a good supplement.

 Exergy wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:
Yeah, they're worth a look at if you're doing Black Legion and playing FOC, because they can fulfill your Troops Choice with some punch.

But they die just like any other marine, and those extra attacks may never even come into play if your opponent has good firepower and undertsands their rules.

but if you are playing Black Legion they are 20ppm.....

Black Legion usually take cultists to avoid the tax


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Chosen are overpriced in the sense that they take 40+ points of casualties before they even get to where they deal damage at. Again, it's a problem of getting to the fight and they squish just like everything else in the long charge before they can punch. It's the same reason Genestealers and Khorne Berserkers and Mutilators and Howling Banshees and even simple Space Marine Assault squads are hung up for the edition. Assault has to be step one in an ARMY to make these units good and just a squad of assault or two squads isn't efficient enough to be worth the points. 90pts gives two Rhinos with Havocs to squads that need it. 150pts gives two Obliterators moving forward as mobile weapon batteries. Far more useful than a group of Chosen with their upgrades in a TAC list.

If the chosen take 40+ points of casualties before they get into combat, then csm take 25+ pts doing the same.
But when in combat, the tacs will with around 7 attacks not do nearly as much damage as the chosens 21. Thats 2/3 more damage per turn.

The tacs might lose to a 10 man tac squad, where the 50 points extra will let you win for sure, and then move on to the next target, or an objective.

Maybe it is just me who see the value, because i cant really shoot too much stuff after a turn or two, when everything is pretty much in melee.
This means an obliterator might not be so useful.

Yes, but if those chosen take 200 points worth of damage they have 0 attacks.

Chosen cost a lot, and are vunerable to shooting. If you field them, your enemy is going to shoot them and they are never going to see combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chosen can be alright if taken as part of Cypher's dataslate.

Getting ATSKNF and infiltrate for free and getting cypher is a pretty good deal.

I see your point, its the points that is the problem with them.
But i love the dark vengeance chosen, maybe i just use them as csm. My warband is of course very sucessful so they have nice armor lol.
Ill make them all carry heads and books instead of all the different weapons.


I just imagine that people will shoot at my raptors and spawns, because they are likely to get close fast, and i got a screen of cultists for cover.

Those Chosen models could be used as Aspiring Champions for your regular CSM units. But if you wanted particular weapons upgrades it would require a bit of conversion work if you wanted to stay WYSIWYG...not sure how easy that would be.

They are cool models.

 jasper76 wrote:
Those Chosen models could be used as Aspiring Champions for your regular CSM units. But if you wanted particular weapons upgrades it would require a bit of conversion work if you wanted to stay WYSIWYG...not sure how easy that would be.

They are cool models.

I will ofc stay wysiwyg when playing, and thats why my chosen are beastly in melee. Expensive as hell. But they got the looks.
So im waiting for chosen to come out from GW.

My five chosen plus one chosen champion can kill five termies if im lucky.
If i charge i get:
4 lightning claws attacks
4 powermaul attacks
4 power axe attacks
3 powerfist attacks
6 ccw attacks


Because of this, my tactics revolve around putting cultists in front in melee, so they take the wounds, and raptors and spawns to ensure im not shot to pieces, and that i get to charge.

Hey man, if it's working good for you, ride the wave!

 jasper76 wrote:
Those Chosen models could be used as Aspiring Champions for your regular CSM units. But if you wanted particular weapons upgrades it would require a bit of conversion work if you wanted to stay WYSIWYG...not sure how easy that would be.

They are cool models.

just need to convert them to have more useful weapons

If you good at it you can make a shooty chosen squad. GI've em mark of nurgle and plasma guns , I made my chosens in to plague marines !

In 6th edition, I made a lot of use out of CC Chosen with flamers as part of a Black Legion list. 4 8-man squads with MoS and IoE were about enough to damage most lists. Depending on who I was fighting, I would bring plasma instead of flamers.

The goal was always to move up in Rhinos then hit whatever was in front of them with the 5 special weapons. I would position the Rhinos to give the squads some cover after they disembarked.

The way games would go, this would work well unless there were some seriously bad dice involved. In general, 2 of the Rhinos would survive the trip up the board, and the other units would footslog into position. Obviously, units like this are going to get charged, but the MoS + FNP was no joke and would limit damage to a minimum.

Yes, these squads were expensive, but they were also harder to kill than Plague Marines but with a ton of firepower and cc attacks. They worked equally well against hordes and MEQ, but really had troubles versus Eldar. I suspect the same is true in 7th edition.

I think the best way to run chosen is,

5 man squad. Max flamers. Rhino full speed ahead! Best suicide units for CSM!

 Filch wrote:
I think the best way to run chosen is,

5 man squad. Max flamers. Rhino full speed ahead! Best suicide units for CSM!

5 man squads cannot take max flamers. The champion cannot take a flamer, only a combiflamer
so you need 6 for 5 flamers

Ok so i decided to buy four more sets of chosen on ebay. Including the new ones i got 10 standard chosen and 5 of each of the others.

Dont know if i will field them as chosen or csm, but now i have options.

Just in case they never make chosen models exept in DV, and stop selling DV.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sucks that they only have cc special weapons though.

I dont have any of the shooty special weapons.

Can we look at pros and cons of the different builds with them?

Im interested in melta, plasma, and close combat special weapons, basically not the stuff that makes me stand still to shoot.

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Ok so i decided to buy four more sets of chosen on ebay. Including the new ones i got 10 standard chosen and 5 of each of the others.

Dont know if i will field them as chosen or csm, but now i have options.

Just in case they never make chosen models exept in DV, and stop selling DV.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sucks that they only have cc special weapons though.

I dont have any of the shooty special weapons.

Can we look at pros and cons of the different builds with them?

Im interested in melta, plasma, and close combat special weapons, basically not the stuff that makes me stand still to shoot.

all of the melee weapons are a waste. If you are paying 33 or more points for a combat chosen, why not pay 31 and get a terminator with the 2+/5++ in addition to the power weapon.


Melta, plasma and flamers are all great options. 4-5 or nothing. There is no point in mixing either. Keep your target priority for each squad simple.

For plasma, remember how expensive they are getting, and try to get PE on them if you can so they dont kill themselves.

I screwed up the quoting stuff but this is a quote..


all of the melee weapons are a waste. If you are paying 33 or more points for a combat chosen, why not pay 31 and get a terminator with the 2+/5++ in addition to the power weapon.


Melta, plasma and flamers are all great options. 4-5 or nothing. There is no point in mixing either. Keep your target priority for each squad simple.

For plasma, remember how expensive they are getting, and try to get PE on them if you can so they dont kill themselves.

PE is preferred enemy, a rule that lets you reroll ones to hit and wound against certain targets. very useful on plasma overheats.

Plasma is expensive, because it is deadly. it can threaten light vehicles and decimates heavy infantry.

Melta is great against heavy tanks, but also alright against light tanks, good against some monstrous infantry and so so against heavy infantry.

Flamers are great. They cost little, are obviously great against hordes, and so so against heavy infantry. You never know when you are going to be able to get 20 hits against some marines whose transport just blew up. They are also fearsome in overwatch.

Personally I like the Ratznicht's (sp?) Ravagers upgrade from the Crimson Slaughter supplement, pref enemy is very appealing, especially on plasma gunners.

They can be infiltrated by Huron, and if you get within 12" of the enemy, 10 plasma shots re-rolling 1s can put a pretty solid dent in a lot of units.

Yeah now i see that the plasmaguns are quite expensive, but even with flamers its expensive isnt it..
50 pts difference isnt that much really..

But for about 5 more points i could take 10 thousand sons with a sorc and all that..

Flamers are awesome if they work, its just the low range, and my tactics...




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have some chainswords, i could give them some of those, and just go vanilla chosen... I think they do well just like that, because of the extra attacks in cc.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
What do you guys think about no upgrades on them?

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Yeah now i see that the plasmaguns are quite expensive, but even with flamers its expensive isnt it..
50 pts difference isnt that much really..

But for about 5 more points i could take 10 thousand sons with a sorc and all that..

Tsons are str4, Plasamguns are str7
Tsons are AP3, Plasmaguns are AP2
Chosen are good in combat, Tsons are anything but.

 Exergy wrote:

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Yeah now i see that the plasmaguns are quite expensive, but even with flamers its expensive isnt it..
50 pts difference isnt that much really..

But for about 5 more points i could take 10 thousand sons with a sorc and all that..

Tsons are str4, Plasamguns are str7
Tsons are AP3, Plasmaguns are AP2
Chosen are good in combat, Tsons are anything but.

So chosen with plasma are better than Tsons, because they can kill most stuff, and do well in cc.
They dont even loose an attack in cc by taking plasmaguns.
Were talking 255 pts i think.

Khorne berserkers have 1 attack base plus one from pistol, plus two on the charge, thats 4.
Chosen have 2 base plus one from pistol and with mark of khorne thats two on the charge for a good 5 attacks per model.

They cost the same...

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Hawehu@hotmail.com wrote:
Yeah now i see that the plasmaguns are quite expensive, but even with flamers its expensive isnt it..
50 pts difference isnt that much really..

But for about 5 more points i could take 10 thousand sons with a sorc and all that..

Tsons are str4, Plasamguns are str7
Tsons are AP3, Plasmaguns are AP2
Chosen are good in combat, Tsons are anything but.

So chosen with plasma are better than Tsons, because they can kill most stuff, and do well in cc.
They dont even loose an attack in cc by taking plasmaguns.
Were talking 255 pts i think.

Khorne berserkers have 1 attack base plus one from pistol, plus two on the charge, thats 4.
Chosen have 2 base plus one from pistol and with mark of khorne thats two on the charge for a good 5 attacks per model.

They cost the same...

but zerkers are WS5 and fearless....


It's all bad and worse in the CSM elites section, but Tsons are near or at the bottom

Crimson Slaughter Drazznecht Reavers could be helpful.

5 Chosen with 5 Plasma Guns and Mark of Nurgle is my favorite little fireteam. The wording in the codex allows you to put that 5th Plasma Gun on the Chosen Champion. Put them in a Rhino and let them drive around doing business.

They are excellent for cramming more special weapons in without going unbound. Basically elite-slot havocs. Horribly effective against grey knights.

Only time I ever use Chosen is to infiltrate a 4 meltagun squad with Cypher. Usually dont earn their points back though.