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2014/08/26 11:42:02
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Anita isn't a representative for feminism just because she claims it being that way. Actual feminists are mostly unknown to the public as their work is boring and drawn-out yet they actually achieve stuff.
What Anita and other people like those femen girls are slacktivists. Shouting out loudly for all to be heard, but actually doing nothing of worth.
Ahtman wrote: Are people still passing around the idiotic idea that Anita somehow deceived people? What a friendly reminder of how hate can warp in peoples mind.
So...you're saying that she didn't?
She's just desperately looking for attention to get money and self-confirmation. Anita in a nutshell.
People vastly over-inflating her Kickstarter beyond what was ever asked for or needed is not her deceiving people. Anita taking these peoples money is no more than they deserve for supporting her in the first place. She's delivering slowly, but she's delivering.
Ahtman wrote: Are people still passing around the idiotic idea that Anita somehow deceived people? What a friendly reminder of how hate can warp in peoples mind.
So...you're saying that she didn't?
She's just desperately looking for attention to get money and self-confirmation. Anita in a nutshell.
People vastly over-inflating her Kickstarter beyond what was ever asked for or needed is not her deceiving people.
Not accounting for how it was spent IS.
2014/08/26 12:10:28
Subject: Re:Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Sigvatr wrote: Any theory that suggests a relation between video games / movies and actual real life behavior has been debunked so hard even their mother would not recognize their working hypothesis anymore!
I disagree here. Of course watching Scream is not going to turn you into a serial killer, but I think there is a reason why it is not allowed to broadcast movies like Birth of a nation. Well, I guess it is not allowed, I am not sure about the U.S. laws on that kind of stuff.
People are not going to blindly emulate what actors do in the movie, but certainly movies can carry a message that may be internalized to some degree and lead to people acting on it later. That is the whole damn point of propaganda, by the way.
Goliath wrote: Final point, because the guy in the video annoyed me; calling people that disagree with you "fething retards" and "beta fether" is not how to win an argument
Beta? Is that not some PUA/MRA/Whatever the hell language there?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/08/26 12:36:48
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Goliath wrote: Final point, because the guy in the video annoyed me; calling people that disagree with you "fething retards" and "beta fether" is not how to win an argument
Beta? Is that not some PUA/MRA/Whatever the hell language there?
It's Red Pill terminology; it's the implication that because they don't act all macho, or act in a vaguely feminine manner they are categorically worse than those (I.e. The Red Pillers) who act in an alpha manner (working out, fething around, acting as if you're the centre of the universe, acting/talking about women as if they're some subservient race that *need* to be controlled and only exist for the sexual service of men). If he's using the term in the way that it's normally used (which based on how he acted in the rest of the video, I will assume is the case) he's implying that they don't deserve to have a relationship,because they are inferior, and if they *do* end up in a relationship it would be perfectly fine for him to make every attempt to steal their partner out from under them (apart from if they were gay, because that's totally gay and disgusting bro).
It's the worst kind of frat house, LADS LADS LADS kind of sexism.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/26 12:37:15
Makes me glad I did not waste time to watch that video!
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/08/26 12:41:29
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Sigvatr wrote: Any theory that suggests a relation between video games / movies and actual real life behavior has been debunked so hard even their mother would not recognize their working hypothesis anymore!
I disagree here. Of course watching Scream is not going to turn you into a serial killer, but I think there is a reason why it is not allowed to broadcast movies like Birth of a nation. Well, I guess it is not allowed, I am not sure about the U.S. laws on that kind of stuff.
People are not going to blindly emulate what actors do in the movie, but certainly movies can carry a message that may be internalized to some degree and lead to people acting on it later. That is the whole damn point of propaganda, by the way.
Sigvatr wrote: Well, science disagrees so I go with science
I think you are misunderstanding what science tells you. But claiming science sure is a pretty efficient way to get respectability.
I am pretty sure actual science tries to understand how propaganda and persuasion works rather than dismissing it as something unreal and claiming that people only ever get their own personal idea out of nowhere with no influence from the outside world.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/08/26 12:59:11
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Sigvatr wrote: Well, science disagrees so I go with science
I think you are misunderstanding what science tells you. But claiming science sure is a pretty efficient way to get respectability.
I work and act...mostly...on facts. So far, there has not been a single study showing an actual influece or direct correlation between video games (or other media) and an actual change of behavior. This certainly does not mean that there is no correlation - it just means that it has not been proven yet. Yet it's the more logical approach to the question at hand. Going by a motion because "you think that it's right" isn't an approach I appreciate.
Do note that this isn't supposed to be meant offensive or anything. It's just a different viewpoint.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/26 12:59:21
A lot of media "works" because it validates ideas people already hold. Where they got those ideas is another thing too of course.
There is some evidence that different people have basic differences in their attitudes to novelty, risk, change, and so on -- these could be genetic or social in origin (or a mixture). There is cognitive bias, which inclines people to look for media that validates their ideas.
Sigvatr wrote: So far, there has not been a single study showing an actual influece or direct correlation between video games (or other media) and an actual change of behavior.
Oh. Except for advertisement, for instance, which effectiveness has been tested thoroughly because of the huge economic interest behind it.
Sigvatr wrote: This certainly does not mean that there is no correlation - it just means that it has not been proven yet.
Denying that people can be influenced by some media they are subjected to is just like denying that China exist. Yes, with enough bad faith, you can deny it. But that is not going to make anyone else stop to take it for granted.
I do not even understand your vision, actually. Do you think no discussion, no possible exchange of ideas could ever make you change your mind, or are you arguing that putting the very same discussion in a movie or a book or a video game would somehow not make you change your mind because then it would be from a media?
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/08/26 13:23:04
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Advertisement is different because it works short-term rather than long-term for most cases.
What I talk about is a long-term change in attitude / behavior. If you can point me to any scientific evidence that such a thing exists with video games, I'd highly appreciate it. You believing in it...because isn't very convincing.
Sigvatr wrote: If you can point me to any scientific evidence that such a thing exists with video games, I'd highly appreciate it.
I cannot. However, I am pretty sure I can find tons of studies of the influence of stuff like, say, rock and roll, or the romantic movement, or even movies like Rambo on the public of their time. Of course, such studies will focus both on how those were influenced by their time, and how they influenced it back, because the two phenomenon are intricately linked. Do you believe that video game are somehow an exception here? I mean, a cutscene is basically nothing but a very short movie.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/08/26 13:43:35
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
I shouldn't care about a potentially poisonous influence on the video game industry?
What? This Zoe Quinn or Anita Sarkeesian? I'm not really sure how they are poisoning it when it's already pretty toxic. I used to think this particular issue was important to, you'll get over it.
Go and play some fun games.
I've just discovered the joys of Shovel Knight. That's a happy Kickstarter tale.
NSFW - Language
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/26 14:42:35
Ahtman wrote: Are people still passing around the idiotic idea that Anita somehow deceived people? What a friendly reminder of how hate can warp in peoples mind.
If there is anything "Saddam Hussein has WMDS" has proven, it's that if you lie often enough people believe it.
Yeah, that's just a polite "none of your business", any more than asking a Walmart executive how they spent the profits on a bag of rice. And that's assuming you bought the rice. Since you obviously didn't, you are owed nothing, despite how entitled you feel.
I can't imagine what business you guys think you can walk into and demand an accounting of their costs and profits. If she asked for x dollars, and got x dollars + y dollars, and decided to spend y dollars on cocaine and prostitutes... so what? She's well within her rights to pocket the profit however she sees fit.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/08/26 17:00:19
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
2014/08/26 18:28:41
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
Sigvatr wrote: If you can point me to any scientific evidence that such a thing exists with video games, I'd highly appreciate it.
I cannot. However, I am pretty sure I can find tons of studies of the influence of stuff like, say, rock and roll, or the romantic movement, or even movies like Rambo on the public of their time. Of course, such studies will focus both on how those were influenced by their time, and how they influenced it back, because the two phenomenon are intricately linked. Do you believe that video game are somehow an exception here? I mean, a cutscene is basically nothing but a very short movie.
Just as an interesting point. Sometimes conclusions do not need a study to prove that it is true.
I would tend to agree that article. I'm also not a fan of swapping hats between being a journalist and blogger whenever it's convenient. Anita Sarkeesian strikes me as at best dishonest and at worst annoying.
Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.
2014/08/26 21:05:53
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
So, enlighten me, do you believe video games are different from all those other media I mentioned, or do you believe that those had no lasting influence either, or that a truncated quote is a good substitute to actual argumentation?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/26 21:06:41
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/08/26 21:16:48
Subject: Zoe Quinn and the five guys; corruption in video game journalism
So, enlighten me, do you believe video games are different from all those other media I mentioned, or do you believe that those had no lasting influence either, or that a truncated quote is a good substitute to actual argumentation?
I've made my point very clear. There's no evidence for media such as books, music, TV or video games to have a direct relation to a change in character / attitude and therefore, there...isn't. If you want to think that there is because...you think so, or want to think so, that's your choice.
I - usually - believe in evidence not mere assumptions. Living in rainbow wonderland might be fun but it's...unhealthy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/26 21:30:55
There's no evidence for media such as books, music, TV or video games to have a direct relation to a change in character / attitude and therefore
So you're argument is that reading a book never changed how anyone thought about the world around them? Or that a TV show effected how someone spent their money?
Media effects people, and when people talk about those effects they're not talking "just killed 20 cops in GTA, better go run over some hookers." They're talking "man this story about the dad taking a hospital hostage to get a heart for his dying son is sad. HMO's are donkey-caves."
So you're argument is that reading a book never changed how anyone thought about the world around them? Or that a TV show effected how someone spent their money?
Sigvatr wrote: Advertisement is different because it works short-term rather than long-term for most cases.
What I talk about is a long-term change in attitude / behavior. If you can point me to any scientific evidence that such a thing exists with video games, I'd highly appreciate it. You believing in it...because isn't very convincing.
