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 Furyou Miko wrote:
But why is it better?

for the reasons I already mentioned

namely : came straight from empy, wasnt copied off of primarchs who were themselves copied off the emperor (copies of copies are always inferior).

wasnt part of a chaos pact to begin with, so the inherent corruption isnt there.

It was also created with the sole intention of being uncorruptable after half the marines turned traitor due to their gene seeds not being as incorruptable as once thought.

quite possibly had superior tech involved as well.

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Well, if Janus is you-know-who then the GK would have access to the primarch project material.

What does Voldemort have to do with it?

easysauce wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
But why is it better?

wasnt part of a chaos pact to begin with, so the inherent corruption isnt there.

It was also created with the sole intention of being uncorruptable after half the marines turned traitor due to their gene seeds not being as incorruptable as once thought.

quite possibly had superior tech involved as well.

I've deleted the points I can't answer.

The chaos pact was required to make the geneseed in the first place. If there was no pact made to create the GK, they must logically still be supported under the original terms of the first pact, otherwise the Emperor could have done it without the pact in the first place.

The original Primarchs were intended to be Incorruptible as well, they were supposed to be bulwarks against Chaos. Intention isn't everything, even with the Emperor involved.

Superior tech? When he created the GK, his house was falling down around his ears. Most of his tech was already lost with Mars.

 Deadshot wrote:
The Emperor didn't task Malcador to do that, he did it himself. Malcador was busy getting recruits and then took them straight to Terra and then to Titan, where the vaults were already filled eith Geneseed. The Emperor was the only one with the know-how to make geneseed, and I very much doubt that He would have entrusted His own genes to anyone else with something this crucial time, even Malcador, who being loyal wouldv'e advised against it in the first place anyway.

Maybe, problem with that is he was kind of busy at the time stopping deamons from ripping through the webway. hence why I suspected he MAY have asked malcador to do it himself anyway I suspect we'll find out as the HH series contiunes

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Abadabadoobaddon wrote:Well, if Janus is you-know-who then the GK would have access to the primarch project material.

What does Voldemort have to do with it?

easysauce wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
But why is it better?

wasnt part of a chaos pact to begin with, so the inherent corruption isnt there.

It was also created with the sole intention of being uncorruptable after half the marines turned traitor due to their gene seeds not being as incorruptable as once thought.

quite possibly had superior tech involved as well.

I've deleted the points I can't answer.

The chaos pact was required to make the geneseed in the first place. If there was no pact made to create the GK, they must logically still be supported under the original terms of the first pact, otherwise the Emperor could have done it without the pact in the first place.

The original Primarchs were intended to be Incorruptible as well, they were supposed to be bulwarks against Chaos. Intention isn't everything, even with the Emperor involved.

Superior tech? When he created the GK, his house was falling down around his ears. Most of his tech was already lost with Mars.

No pact was made when it comes to the Geneseed. The pact with the Dark Gods was to create the Primarchs. Geneseed came after they were scattered and He and They fell out. No pacts were needed, just the genetics to build tissue and put it in a vessel. The only thing the Chaos Gods did was give them souls and life.

The Primarchs were made with the essence of Chaos inbued from the start and bely extension their Legions (sharing the DNA). The GK are humans. Broken down and remade into something they no l9nger look in the mirror and recognise. Something beyond human. Implanted with the Emperor's DNA, the complete anathema to Chaos, a literal immune system against corruption.

The technology used in the Primarch project was based on that of the Thunder Warriors, years before he made a pact with Mars. The tech was always on Terra. The Emperor would have never entrusted the most powerful technology in the galaxy, the power to create Space Marines and potentially, Primarchs, in the hands of anyone but Himself. He knew there was potential for the Martian Priesthood to fall to Chaos. Mars was never involved at any point during the creation of any of the Pre-Heresy creations

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Remember also that Dante is NOT 1000 years old. He has been Chapter Master for 1000 years. Given how long its takes a SM to get promoted that far, he could be anywhere from 1500 to 2500 years old if not older.

Off-topic but Dante went from "a young 8th company captain" straight to chapter master simply because he was the only captain left alive after the Blood Angels were nearly wiped out (For the third time). So it's certainly possible he's around 1100 and not 1500+.

 easysauce wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
But why is it better?

for the reasons I already mentioned

namely : came straight from empy, wasnt copied off of primarchs who were themselves copied off the emperor (copies of copies are always inferior).

wasnt part of a chaos pact to begin with, so the inherent corruption isnt there.

It was also created with the sole intention of being uncorruptable after half the marines turned traitor due to their gene seeds not being as incorruptable as once thought.

quite possibly had superior tech involved as well.

Indeed.

Even if they used the same genetic material, with the knowledge of the flaw inherent in other geneseed and a way to fix it they could easily make a superior batch.

Its like making 1 cake, having it be bad because you used old eggs, and then making another one using fresh eggs laid by the same chicken.

I like the cake analogy but its actually.more.like this.

Its like baking a cake, using eggs you thought were good. Some were good but some were of low quality and as such parts of the cake are a little "unpleasant."
So you make a second cake but instead use your own eggs you hand-picked yourself from your own chickens, who have been selectively bred to make perfect cake-making eggs each and every time.

 Furyou Miko wrote:


I've deleted the points I can't answer.

The chaos pact was required to make the geneseed in the first place. If there was no pact made to create the GK, they must logically still be supported under the original terms of the first pact, otherwise the Emperor could have done it without the pact in the first place.

The original Primarchs were intended to be Incorruptible as well, they were supposed to be bulwarks against Chaos. Intention isn't everything, even with the Emperor involved.

Superior tech? When he created the GK, his house was falling down around his ears. Most of his tech was already lost with Mars.

except in fact chaos wasnt needed for the gene seed or space marines at all, chaos was needed to make the primarchs, and chaos tainted primarchs are the basis for all space marines.

All SM's except for grey knights, whose basis is the emperor directy.


the simple fact, that in 10k years, a whole dirge of normal SM's have turned to chaos, while not a single GK has, despite GK's dealing with chaos on a consistent basis, means there is obviously something superior about it.

Except that the Primarchs were needed for the Space Marines. Chain of causality applies in the material realm, even when chaos is involved.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Except that the Primarchs were needed for the Space Marines. Chain of causality applies in the material realm, even when chaos is involved.

I'm not sure they WHERE needed though, they came as a result of the primarch project yes, but where they specificly needed once he designed the process? open question as we really don't know eneugh about it

The Space Marines were created after the Primarchs were lost to serve in their stead while the Emperor looked for his lost sons so it can be argued that the Chaos Gods were used to create the Primarchs but not the Space Marines, how the Space Marines got the taint was from being based off the Primarchs, not the process of making the gene-seed that is implanted in them. Therefore, the Emperor made the gene-seed given his own technology and was able to use himself as the base thus bypass any possibility of corruption.

I though the part about Anval Thrawn was kind of amusing. He is mentioned long enough to die to save his brother captain. hes dead, not coming back, end of story.

Not at all.

That very story was when Thawn first "died" and his special ability first manifested.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not at all.

That very story was when Thawn first "died" and his special ability first manifested.

True, although in the 5th Ed Codex his entry expands on it and reveals he revived. Thawn is also mentioned a number of times after that event. In 7th Ed he is not said to revive and is not mentioned EVER again.

That doesn't mean he didn't. Unless they come out with stuff that directly contradicts him rising from the dead then we can assume the old fluff is still valid.

Except it does contradict it. It says he died.

The previous said he died and came back to life.
This one does not say he came back to life. Without explicit statement, as far as the 7th Ed Codex is concerned he is dead.

Not how it works, Deadshot. Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Not how it works, Deadshot. Absence of Evidence is not Evidence of Absence.

In this case that's exactly how it works. Imagine you are a new person coming to the hobby. To you, Thawn died and that's it. If GW wanted to suggest that he survived there would be something there. That is clearly how they want to portray it.

That's why you talk to other people in the hobby and they share all of the awesome stuff that's left on the cutting room floor this time.

Just like any other fiction franchise. Just because Dean Thomas' wizarding father was never mentioned in Harry Potter doesn't mean he didn't still die before Dean was born.

Where in the new codex does it mention Anval Thawn?

Also, what about the evidence from the Ghost Halls or are we only speaking of codex confirmation?

 Envihon wrote:
Where in the new codex does it mention Anval Thawn?

Also, what about the evidence from the Ghost Halls or are we only speaking of codex confirmation?

In the timeline of events. And we're only speaking of Codex confirmation. There are numerous times where a new Codex would conflict with BL material. Something that springs to mind is the novelisation of DoW2, where Broodlords are mentioned to have Acid Maws. This was doable in 4th Ed codex when it came out but as of the 5th Ed and later 6th Ed Codex, only Pyrovores had acid maws. That's a really soft examplr though, I'm sure there's more.

Thats not exactly a contradiction. Given how fast the Tyranids adapt and change. It would be impossible to accurately portray the Nids without some alteration.

If a Hive fleet decides its Broodlords need Acid Maws, then they'll get Acid Maws. Simplification of the rules probably mandates certain biomorphs only be available to certain creatures even though realistically any creature could manifest any biomorph.

BL has an explicit license to deviate from 40k Codices... or can you put your IG in carapace armor? Didn't think so.

Also... servitors don't crack wise to Inquisitors (or anyone else, for that matter)... unless you're Inquisitor Ravenor, apparently.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Thats not exactly a contradiction. Given how fast the Tyranids adapt and change. It would be impossible to accurately portray the Nids without some alteration.

If a Hive fleet decides its Broodlords need Acid Maws, then they'll get Acid Maws. Simplification of the rules probably mandates certain biomorphs only be available to certain creatures even though realistically any creature could manifest any biomorph.

That's why I said its a soft example.

 Psienesis wrote:
BL has an explicit license to deviate from 40k Codices... or can you put your IG in carapace armor? Didn't think so.

Also... servitors don't crack wise to Inquisitors (or anyone else, for that matter)... unless you're Inquisitor Ravenor, apparently.

Actually it's not that hard to create an IG force where your infantry all wears carapeice, you just have to use veteran squads to do so.

the IG codex is also really just for a "typical" guard force. I'm sure somewhere out there is a rich planet that equips their IG regiments with carapeice armor and bolt guns (said regiment proably suffers rediculas supply difficulties and likely swiftly ends up switching to salvaged lasguns)

The self-proclaimed "richest planet in the Imperium" doesn't give its Guard regiments carapace armour as standard issue (Elysia).

Harakoni Warhawk regiments, however, are known for it.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The self-proclaimed "richest planet in the Imperium" doesn't give its Guard regiments carapace armour as standard issue (Elysia).

Harakoni Warhawk regiments, however, are known for it.

Tbf Elysians ARE sent on one-way suicide missions, might be a waste of armor doing that

Well, it has always been said many times that there is no actual canon in the 40k universe to partially give BL it's creative licenses as well as let GW change fluff at will in the Codices. I mean look how many fluff changes happened from 5th to 7th. Which codex has higher authority? It doesn't say that Anval Thawn is a perptual but it doesn't say that he isn't either. Do we bring in previous editions to argue the point or have them become moot now that a new codex is out?

Quickjager wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The self-proclaimed "richest planet in the Imperium" doesn't give its Guard regiments carapace armour as standard issue (Elysia).

Harakoni Warhawk regiments, however, are known for it.

Tbf Elysians ARE sent on one-way suicide missions, might be a waste of armor doing that

They aren't supposed to be one-way suicide missions. :p Elysians are just cursed.

Right, but the insurance company (and military logistics) looks at the averages and the rate of incidents and bases its decisions on that.

Im sure they used to, but after the third or fourth mission (out of 3 or 4) when no one returned, they stopped issuing it, as it was obviously just not working and was expensive to boot.