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 ductvader wrote:
There are two equal schools of thought on Serpents.

Equip Cannons: Stay in 20-24" range

Don't buy extra cannons: Stay in 24-36" range

But never do we want more distance than 36"

And is there a reason for this? Because I see very little cause to ever be closer than 36" considering the range of the other two weapons.

Edited myself right after you posted:

"...and both get closer when it's time to unload...you don't want your guardians or avengers stuck having to hoof it"

 ductvader wrote:
Edited myself right after you posted:

"...and both get closer when it's time to unload...you don't want your guardians or avengers stuck having to hoof it"

In terms of a transport I could accept this, were the scenario I initially responded to not about grav centurions shooting at the serpent. In which case avengers could simply advance 6, battle focus, and shoot them if the serpent died at 24" away.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This assumes it began 36 away, failed to kill 1 in of centurions, they were gated forwards and killed it.

Grav Centurions with Gate have a 48" threat bubble.

Serpent Shields are a terrible way to try and kill them and staying out of 48 means that's all you get to fire.

You need fragons, wriath, hunters, falcons, and general bladestorm to solve that specific problem.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
More damage, yes. But since a shield + laser attack requires 36" range, grav cannons are 24", and gate is 12", a smart player will put the serpent 36-37 away to either kill an inch of centurion and be safe from return fire or be completely safe from it. The loss of two shuriken cannon shots hardly cripples its damage output.

Well, no.
The Serpents do most of the damage in an Eldar list.
If the tl scatter laser hits, the shots of the shuricannon and the shield are tl as well.
If you play too hesitant, you'll play it not right.

Here I am mistaking gate for levitation, derp. Still, in the realm of using the serpent as a gunboat (they usually are) I still find little reason to get them any closer than 36". Against centurions without gate, doubly true. The extra two shots from a cannon are hardly worth taking return fire, though if its cargo is worth anything (fragons, wraiths, 10 models) then sure. But as a its traditional 5x DA boat, 36" sounds to me like the sweet spot without risking getting shot at.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@wuest - my point is that the cannon is two shots. That won't be the make or break for a round of shooting out of a serpent.

Well most Cent stars are not using only Gate as a Power. Its usually Gate + Invisbility, and more often than not, Perfect Timing to make your Jink useless

Also dont forget that gate is after their movement phase.

So its 6 inch move + Gate + 24 from guns.

Well the move doesnt really matter

Wait a moment here. How come we are talking about Gravstars vs. Wave Serpants? Isn't this a GK thread?

Jefffar wrote:
Wait a moment here. How come we are talking about Gravstars vs. Wave Serpants? Isn't this a GK thread?

I guess Gravstars these days are considered "Grey Knights" tactics, since now they most likely include Draigo

Because the greatest value of the new Grey Knights Codex is providing the best Gate of Infinity access to other Imperium forces.

Lanlaorn wrote:
Because the greatest value of the new Grey Knights Codex is providing the best Gate of Infinity access to other Imperium forces.

Really goes back to the phrase

"IT'S DRAIGO, HE MAKES IT HAPPEN!"

Quickjager wrote:

Lanlaorn wrote:
Because the greatest value of the new Grey Knights Codex is providing the best Gate of Infinity access to other Imperium forces.

Really goes back to the phrase

"IT'S DRAIGO, HE MAKES IT HAPPEN!"

Gon'a get himself some fine ass Warp Dust!

SJ

He is important to one specific build that people are discussing. There are other builds that people could talk about.

personally,


I am looking forward to:

2lvl 3 libbies + draigo

+10 man allied SW terminators with SS's and combi meltas, _ njal

should work out so that: between 3 biomancy, 3 tele, 4 sanctic + draigos powers:

whole unit has gate, 2++ saves on all but the libbies who have 3++, invisability, 4+ FNP, gate, maybe votex of doom.


couple this with having interceptor squads with tele homer and you can gate, turn 1 after your ints shunt, no scatter, unload psy powers+ melta into anything that needs its face wrecked, then charge whatevers left next turn. that many ablative 2++'s give the unit huge durability, even before 4+ FNP or invis, getting one/both of those makes this unit basically invincible.

 easysauce wrote:
personally,


I am looking forward to:

2lvl 3 libbies + draigo

+10 man allied SW terminators with SS's and combi meltas, _ njal

should work out so that: between 3 biomancy, 3 tele, 4 sanctic + draigos powers:

whole unit has gate, 2++ saves on all but the libbies who have 3++, invisability, 4+ FNP, gate, maybe votex of doom.


couple this with having interceptor squads with tele homer and you can gate, turn 1 after your ints shunt, no scatter, unload psy powers+ melta into anything that needs its face wrecked, then charge whatevers left next turn. that many ablative 2++'s give the unit huge durability, even before 4+ FNP or invis, getting one/both of those makes this unit basically invincible.

Na, Draigo for auto Gate, Stern for auto Sanctuary. 2++ FTW.

stern is prety expensive for what he does, a libby with 4 rolls on santic is going to do more then him most games, theres also the whole rerolling P test rolls of 1 for all the units too.

getting vortex and other powers is more usfull too. even if you miss 4 rolls at sanctuary from the first libby, you have 3 more rolls on the second one you can use if you really need.

taht way you still get the 2++, but otehr stuff in addition to it, and for less points.

My 1500pt "Nemesis Draigo" list is:

Draigo

Stern

10man GKT w/ Psycans, Hammers, Falchions, Halberds

5man GKIS w/ Incin, Swords

5man GKIS w/ Incin, Swords

NDK w/ PT, H Psycan

NDK w/ PT, H Psycan

Group up the TDA, and whatever isn't jumping/shunting is Gating.

Bounce <pew-pew>
Bounce <pew-pee>
Bounce <pew-pew>

SJ

jeffersonian always posts pure lists that I want to try

While draigo is auto gate and a good beastick character all around with a good save, ew, and 4 wounds; Stern isnt 'auto take' like draigo is, he's too expensive for what he brings other than Sanctuary alone.

I'd agree a ML3 libby rolling on sanctic would be better than stern

You should see my "Knights of the Realm" list, where I work Grenatius into a 1500pt NSF. Simply marvelous.

SJ

Anyone tried a shunt list with Allied Drop Pod Sternguard?

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
You should see my "Knights of the Realm" list, where I work Grenatius into a 1500pt NSF. Simply marvelous.

SJ

I haven't stumbled across that yet.
Is it still in theoryhammer or have you been able to play it up yet?

Used Gerantius in a couple games before the new dex.

He's a beast but dunno if hes the best for GKs. Expensive model in an already low model count army

 ductvader wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
You should see my "Knights of the Realm" list, where I work Grenatius into a 1500pt NSF. Simply marvelous.

SJ

I haven't stumbled across that yet.
Is it still in theoryhammer or have you been able to play it up yet?

I have the models, but haven't played a game yet. Simply put, its 1 Libby, 1 10man GKT, 2 blinged out NDK, and Grenatius.

Do I think it has a good chance in the 1500pt tourney? Probably not.

Do I thnk I'll have a good time playing it in a 1500pt tourney? Oooooh Yeah.

SJ

It might actually do decently. Only thing the list can't take on are flyers.

Gerantius is durable enough to survive a turn of retribution so you could put everything else in reserves to Deep Strike if you wanted.


Here is my 1850 pure GK list. It did pretty well in our local tournament. Would have done awesome if my dice hadn't had a hard-on for killing my GM and his unit every game(first game failed morale and ran off the board, 2nd GM got sucked into the warp on turn 1, 3rd GM got 6'd by a Knight's Stomp but the Knight was killed too)

Grandmaster 232 pts
-Halberd
-MC Psycannon
-Curiass of Sacrifice

Librarian 165 pts
-Lvl3
-Stormbolter
-Domina Liber Daemonica

10 Terminators 403 pts
-2 psycannons
-2 Hammers
-4 Halberds
-Melta Bombs

10 Terminators 395 pts
-2 psycannons
-1 Hammer
-5 Halberds
-Melta Bombs

Storm Raven 210 pts
-Tl-assault cannon
-Tl-MM
-Locator Beacon

Dreadknight 225 pts
-Incinerator
-Psycannon
-Sword
-Teleporter

Dreadknight 220 pts
-Psilincer
-Psycannon
-Sword
-Teleporter


Going pure Sanctic is gold. Nothing in the Discipline is bad except for the Primaris power(and only if you aren't facing daemons)

Its awesome to get both GoI and VoD on the same Psyker. Deep Strike in, toss out a Vortex, and then GoI away is hilarious when you arrive from reserves.

I'm very much of the belief that in a Pure GK list, Telekinesis Librarians are the way to go. (Unless you take the Liber)

On a power by power basis the offer the most to the GKs without the redundancy of powers GKs already have.

If only double cad were tournament viable....

 ductvader wrote:
I'm very much of the belief that in a Pure GK list, Telekinesis Librarians are the way to go. (Unless you take the Liber)

On a power by power basis the offer the most to the GKs without the redundancy of powers GKs already have.

I'm not seeing it.

Levitation and Psychic Maelstrom are worse versions of GoI and VoD. Shockwave is a worse version of Cleansing Flame.

Telekine Dome is flat out useless. Unless you are that desperate to get a 5++ on your Stormraven.

Assail is more useful overall than Banishment, but a Str6 Beam isn't exactly something to write home about.

Only powers I see being useful is Objuration Mechanicum and Crush. And Crush isn't super reliable. It doesn't even count as Str10 for ID purposes if you roll 11-12.