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Buypainted have nice explanation of GWs behavior to gamers.
Again I find myself torn between two sides I consider wrong. This game should not be made to be competitive. Or, more precisely, should be made more about narrative and fluff than from the perspective of a "game based on the universe". For example, how about we grow out of the d6 system, allowing more room for the broad scope of thing in this game? For example, allowing more than 2 inches of space between models in units that would naturally spread out in battle. Or how about making a Space Marine army consist of less marines that are more durable and deadly, or maybe make plaguebearers immune to poison, or relegate deep strike mishaps to armies that that actually happens to, roll to penetrate armor and THEN roll for toughness (why is it backwards in the first place?), and the list goes on. Who wouldn't like to see all this happen?
But when you extend that to the models, that sort of thing would be less competitive---at least right away. No matter which way you slice it the main demographic of this hobby is people playing to participate in a game, more focused on tactics and list building then a rich, characterful army. (Not to say you aren't interested in both) Plus Games Workshop would sooner make new units than updating models. If what they told Mr. Buypainted was true, then they'd be updating more than just their very worst unit per release. If there was a single element of their strategy that I could change it'd be that. The rules change, the models don't. I'd much rather have plastic noise marines than a maulerfiend/forgefiend kit. Most people wouldn't. You know why? Because Maulerfiend/Forgefiend are bigger, more powerful, and are "something I'd actually use". Something with good stats. Sell the hobby to the devil, why don't you...
Again I find myself torn between two sides I consider wrong. This game should not be made to be competitive. Or, more precisely, should be made more about narrative and fluff than from the perspective of a "game based on the universe". For example, how about we grow out of the d6 system, allowing more room for the broad scope of thing in this game? For example, allowing more than 2 inches of space between models in units that would naturally spread out in battle. Or how about making a Space Marine army consist of less marines that are more durable and deadly, or maybe make plaguebearers immune to poison, or relegate deep strike mishaps to armies that that actually happens to, roll to penetrate armor and THEN roll for toughness (why is it backwards in the first place?), and the list goes on. Who wouldn't like to see all this happen?
We had something like that, it was called 2nd edition. Some weapons had variable wounds using other dice, one thing was a d20 but I can't remember what it was. Armies were fractions of what they are now - a 1,500 point Space Marine army was like 20 guys. That has feth all to do with competitive, a game can be built around competitive and not detract from narrative and fluff.
The issue is that 40k's rules are designed to be cumbersome, whether intentionally or not, so that games become ponderous affairs that take the better part of a day to play. All that's missing is weird logistic and map maneuvers like some old Napoleonic rules have.
But when you extend that to the models, that sort of thing would be less competitive---at least right away. No matter which way you slice it the main demographic of this hobby is people playing to participate in a game, more focused on tactics and list building then a rich, characterful army. (Not to say you aren't interested in both) Plus Games Workshop would sooner make new units than updating models. If what they told Mr. Buypainted was true, then they'd be updating more than just their very worst unit per release. If there was a single element of their strategy that I could change it'd be that. The rules change, the models don't. I'd much rather have plastic noise marines than a maulerfiend/forgefiend kit. Most people wouldn't. You know why? Because Maulerfiend/Forgefiend are bigger, more powerful, and are "something I'd actually use". Something with good stats. Sell the hobby to the devil, why don't you...
They would do a lot better if they streamlined the game and had steady releases rather than playing one-upsmanship every new codex with bigger, badder things, doubly so because it's hit or miss if those units will suck eggs or be insanely OP. There's barely any rhyme or reason or thought beyond "Hey it would be cool if this unit had X" and then it seems like they go along with X, balance or how it works be damned.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Kilkrazy wrote: Competitive rules and a narrative game are not mutually exclusive. The narrative can be developed through the campaign structure.
Or you can abandon balanced rules and make it purely narrative.
The sad truth is that GW haven't tried to do either. They just use the "narrative" tag to excuse the slackness of their development.
Also this. You can have competitive rules that also foster narrative gaming, but not the way GW tries to do it with repeated cries that the game isn't meant for tournaments and this "forge the narrative" bullgak that is literally an excuse to cover their own shoddy rules by passing the blame; Unit X is underpowered versus Unit Y? It's not the designers fault, it must be yours because the game isn't competitive, you must be using it wrong or playing TFGs that aren't forging the narrative but are those nasty basement dwelling competitive gamer trolls.
Feth that gak.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/27 18:00:20
Games Workshop doesn't understand it's own product or the market that buys it.
Their 'product' is the 'GW Hobby" which is an ecosystem of items (models, model supplies, fiction & the game), all items that primarily revolve around THE GAME. The models not collectibles, there is NOTHING collectible regarding the 'GW Hobby'. The accumulation of models and special edition items, while meeting the simplest definition of "collecting", is incredibly short sighted. If the ecosystem is a 'hobby' then there is the implication that what is being 'collected' has an appreciable value and that this value intrinsically makes the items desirable and thus collectible. GW's models have ZERO appreciable value; therefore they are not 'collectible'.
Plainly stated... If there wasn't a game that we could play using the models interest in the product would be abysmal. If GW stopped making rules, nearly everyone in the 'GW Hobby' would leave. If you think otherwise, you're fooling yourself. If there were no game, there would be no logical sense in purchasing 60+ Ork boyz or 40+ Tactical Space Marines or 80+ Tyranid Termagants (get the point?). If your intentions are nothing more than to accumulate models because 'they're cool looking' there is no incentive to purchase the same item in multiples. So... I'll repeat myself - Games Workshop's product is an ecosystem of items, items that primarily revolve around A GAME.
oni wrote: Games Workshop doesn't understand it's own product or the market that buys it.
Their 'product' is the 'GW Hobby" which is an ecosystem of items (models, model supplies, fiction & the game), all items that primarily revolve around THE GAME. The models not collectibles, there is NOTHING collectible regarding the 'GW Hobby'. The accumulation of models and special edition items, while meeting the simplest definition of "collecting", is incredibly short sighted. If the ecosystem is a 'hobby' then there is the implication that what is being 'collected' has an appreciable value and that this value intrinsically makes the items desirable and thus collectible. GW's models have ZERO appreciable value; therefore they are not 'collectible'.
Plainly stated... If there wasn't a game that we could play using the models interest in the product would be abysmal. If GW stopped making rules, nearly everyone in the 'GW Hobby' would leave. If you think otherwise, you're fooling yourself. If there were no game, there would be no logical sense in purchasing 60+ Ork boyz or 40+ Tactical Space Marines or 80+ Tyranid Termagants (get the point?). If your intentions are nothing more than to accumulate models because 'they're cool looking' there is no incentive to purchase the same item in multiples. So... I'll repeat myself - Games Workshop's product is an ecosystem of items, items that primarily revolve around A GAME.
And their lack of understanding of this is the crux of the issue. They don't sell models, they sell a game that uses models. In the same sense that Warlord or Privateer or Mantic or Battlefront or any other game + figures company sells models. In fact outside of some historical figures there's very few models that are basically sold for collecting and not to be used in a game, and even those are the outliers - I might buy a box of let's say Napoleonic infantry to paint up because I like the period and want a unit, but I'm not buying more than one if I'm not playing a game (or, in theory at least, doing a big diorama).
GW doesn't get this. Without the game, they'd sell gak because there would be no reason to buy it.
oni wrote: Games Workshop doesn't understand it's own product or the market that buys it.
Their 'product' is the 'GW Hobby" which is an ecosystem of items (models, model supplies, fiction & the game), all items that primarily revolve around THE GAME. .
Unfortunately so. As it stands, the guys writing the rules for a miniature game take official precedence over the novel writers. By god, John French tried to make Warp Talons work in a story...
Which, by the way, leads me to complain about the lack of civilian models. They're very common mission objectives in 40k, I can't imagine why they haven't been implemented in this oh so narrative of a game. Oh wait, I can.
oni wrote: Games Workshop doesn't understand it's own product or the market that buys it.
Their 'product' is the 'GW Hobby" which is an ecosystem of items (models, model supplies, fiction & the game), all items that primarily revolve around THE GAME. .
Unfortunately so. As it stands, the guys writing the rules for a miniature game take official precedence over the novel writers. By god, John French tried to make Warp Talons work in a story...
Which, by the way, leads me to complain about the lack of civilian models. They're very common mission objectives in 40k, I can't imagine why they haven't been implemented in this oh so narrative of a game. Oh wait, I can.
Infinity makes civilian models that are great for objectives and narrative battles.
Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions.
oni wrote: Games Workshop doesn't understand it's own product or the market that buys it.
Their 'product' is the 'GW Hobby" which is an ecosystem of items (models, model supplies, fiction & the game), all items that primarily revolve around THE GAME. .
Unfortunately so. As it stands, the guys writing the rules for a miniature game take official precedence over the novel writers. By god, John French tried to make Warp Talons work in a story...
Which, by the way, leads me to complain about the lack of civilian models. They're very common mission objectives in 40k, I can't imagine why they haven't been implemented in this oh so narrative of a game. Oh wait, I can.
Infinity makes civilian models that are great for objectives and narrative battles.
3 reasons: First, and I don't mean to sound rude by saying this, they don't look good. Second, Games Workshop humans are disproportionate, "heroic scale" as people say. Which is of course just them trying to keep the range consistent (and making #3 more of a problem than it needs to be) Reason #3 being that they don't fit the Warhammer 40k aesthetic. If I imagine imperial citizens, I imagine people who are a bit more dryly dressed. But that's just me, I think that if you're making civilian models the whole point should be to make them look as generic as possible.
40K is a universe at war. Who are these civillains you are talking about ?
If civilians were anywhere near the battlefield they would be killed by the enemy, killed by the Inquisition for being tainted, killed by Grey Knights for witnessing something they shouldn't, or killed by an other Imperial Faction for cowardice.
adamsouza wrote: 40K is a universe at war. Who are these civillains you are talking about ?
If civilians were anywhere near the battlefield they would be killed by the enemy, killed by the Inquisition for being tainted, killed by Grey Knights for witnessing something they shouldn't, or killed by an other Imperial Faction for cowardice.
Or an enterprising Sgt would slap a helmet on him, scoop-up a lasgun from the nearest IG fallen and say "Keep going there private, I will overlook your sloppy uniform and misplacing your lasgun but it will be unforgivable if you do not advance and fire <whisper> welcome to the guard, you can thank me later"... "Oh Commisar! I have a newbie that can benefit from your wisdom... or your boot."
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Agree that Infinity is somewhat more suited to having civilians involved in the conflict, although I'm sure you probably could work it in to a 40k scenario - Imperial Guard trying to evacuate civilians in front of a Nid invasion, A Space Marine kill-team attacking through a crowded government building to knock out an un-cooperative governor, Night Lords trying to capture some hive juves to induct into their ranks while local PDF try and stop them. All it needs is a little imagination, although the rules might need some tweaking.
3 reasons: First, and I don't mean to sound rude by saying this, they don't look good. Second, Games Workshop humans are disproportionate, "heroic scale" as people say. Which is of course just them trying to keep the range consistent (and making #3 more of a problem than it needs to be) Reason #3 being that they don't fit the Warhammer 40k aesthetic. If I imagine imperial citizens, I imagine people who are a bit more dryly dressed. But that's just me, I think that if you're making civilian models the whole point should be to make them look as generic as possible.
Points 2 and 3 are valid points definitely. But, Infinity civilians don't look good? I must only assume that you haven't seen these miniatures sir, or perhaps live in some kind of alternate universe?
oni wrote: Games Workshop doesn't understand it's own product or the market that buys it.
Their 'product' is the 'GW Hobby" which is an ecosystem of items (models, model supplies, fiction & the game), all items that primarily revolve around THE GAME. .... ...
Plainly stated... If there wasn't a game that we could play using the models interest in the product would be abysmal. If GW stopped making rules, nearly everyone in the 'GW Hobby' would leave. ... ....
This is it in a nutshell. And it gets worse. GW can make rules, and make them so crappy and expensive that people leave anyway.
When GW doubled the price of codexes I decided not to buy the two new ones I needed for my armies. Therefore I didn't buy any new models either. Then I didn't buy the next edition of rules, because what would be the point.
For the price of 7th edition, two codexes, and a couple of new units (Riptide, Flyrant, etc) I can instead buy myself a very nice X-Wing set up. So I will.
For each "me" who leaves, there is someone who does buy the double price codexes, thus keeping up the overall sales, but the financial evidence is that this is breaking down.
If I were itching for armed civilians, I'd go for Wargames Factory Survivors
Spoiler:
If I wanted unarmed normal folk walking around I'd just use O scale model railroad people. You can buy them by pretty inexpensively if you shop around. 10 seconds searching found them 100 for $13 on Amazon.
Look at GW financials year to year, not just one year. 2013 was GW's highest revenue and highest profit ever. Yep, 2014 it went down but their revenue and profit fell to about 2011 levels, which was still pretty good. SO hardly the outlook of a company at the end of their life cycle.
In 2008 they actually took a loss. They economy was in the toilet, so duh. Until GW posts a consistent loss over 2 or more years then I am not worried. Right now they are generating millions in profits and are debt free. The only game company doing better than them is Hasbro/Wizards.
I know its fashionable to think GW is going under and it's all gloom and doom but really, you hens need to get over yourselves. People have said GW is going down since the early 90's, people have been saying they are going under since then too. But they keep increasing their revenues and profits almost every year. Considering the economy since 2008 and the nature of game companies taking a one year drop in profit (which is still profitable) the way you guys go on is absolutely ridiculous.
We wrote:Look at GW financials year to year, not just one year. 2013 was GW's highest revenue and highest profit ever. Yep, 2014 it went down but their revenue and profit fell to about 2011 levels, which was still pretty good. SO hardly the outlook of a company at the end of their life cycle.
In 2008 they actually took a loss. They economy was in the toilet, so duh. Until GW posts a consistent loss over 2 or more years then I am not worried. Right now they are generating millions in profits and are debt free. The only game company doing better than them is Hasbro/Wizards.
I know its fashionable to think GW is going under and it's all gloom and doom but really, you hens need to get over yourselves. People have said GW is going down since the early 90's, people have been saying they are going under since then too. But they keep increasing their revenues and profits almost every year. Considering the economy since 2008 and the nature of game companies taking a one year drop in profit (which is still profitable) the way you guys go on is absolutely ridiculous.
But go ahead flame away.
adamsouza wrote: How dare you bring logic and facts to a hate fest
We have several threads, including the recent 78 page behemoth, that covers the actual financial facts. Actually saying "they posted profits and have no debt, so they'll be fine" is counter to the logic found in the financial data and continued devaluing of releases. Those are the facts of the matter. GW can very realistically fold in 12-24 months determining on how far the player base bails out. Sales are down, structure is flat, all costs to be cut are. No market research, no actual marketing, poorly leveraged IP, frivolous law suits, and higher and higher prices for less and less content.
We wrote: Look at GW financials year to year, not just one year. 2013 was GW's highest revenue and highest profit ever. Yep, 2014 it went down but their revenue and profit fell to about 2011 levels, which was still pretty good. SO hardly the outlook of a company at the end of their life cycle.
Now look beyond the numbers and consider WHY those numbers are what they are. There are two major issues here:
1) GW lost profit despite aggressive cost cutting and price increases (including day-1 DLC and a faster release cycle). Cutting costs is nice, but it's not something you can keep doing forever. At some point you simply run out of things to cut without sacrificing too much product quality. So what we have here is a really bad drop in sales that has been covered up by some temporary gains in efficiency. Once the cost cutting runs out we can expect GW to see a huge drop in profits. Which brings us to point #2...
2) GW has no plan for getting out of their decline. The new rules are garbage, and GW's desperate attempts to speed up the release cycle has eliminated what little quality control they used to have. The new models are uneven at best, with occasional nice kits balanced out by laughable failures like the Taurox. The quality of the new books is a joke, instead of lots of interesting fluff/art/etc we get page after page of the same old catalog photos. The new WD relaunch is only good for using as toilet paper and will be abandoned almost as soon as it started (not that anyone will notice because they already canceled their subscriptions). Their stores are reduced to one-man closets that nobody will ever go to willingly if there's an independent store within 50 miles. Their website has been stripped of anything that was even vaguely interesting, leaving only a store that nobody will visit unless they're buying something. More and more products are going direct-only, conceding shelf space in independent stores to GW's competition. In short, GW has no hope of attracting new customers by offering a superior product. Their only possible route to "growth" is to become even more efficient at milk the cash cow of their last remaining customers.
Meanwhile GW's competition is busy putting out appealing products and taking more and more of GW's market share. It's quite likely that the 2013 peak in revenue and profit was the best GW will ever do, and it's only downhill from here. Unless GW makes major changes (likely involving firing everyone involved in management or game design) the only question now is how long GW's sheer size and market share will allow them to survive as a declining company until the final end.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
Figures we are seeing are also pre 7th edition release ?
all costs to be cut are.
1.) You have no way of knowing that
2.) Not being in a legal battle with Chapter House alone, will save them buckets of money
No market research
Again, you have no way of actually knowing that.
GW has been convinced for years that their most profitable demographic is teenage boys with disposable income who will play the game for 6 months to a year, and will probably play Space Marines. They got that idea from research from somewhere.
I'm certain GW is paying someone for marketing research. Someone conivinced them they could rebrand themselves as a collectables company, and not a toy maker, and charge premium prices after the rebranding. That smells distinctly of marketing redifining the paradigm nonsense.
poorly leveraged IP
That is a matter of opinion. They are not losing money on IP. FFG produces great products in the 40K universe, and every crappy video game someone churns out with Space Marines in it is money they make doing nothing themselves.
frivolous law suits
I agree with you on that, but GW had a stellar record bullying smaller companies with Law Suits before Chapter House, so that was entirely unexpected to them.
I doubt they will be involved in any this coming year.
higher and higher prices for less and less content.
They saw how well Apple Ipads/Iphones were selling and thought, "Hey we can do that to !!", which they have to some extant, because, you know they are still turning a profit.
Do I agree with GW's buissiness practices ? No
Do I see them crashing and burning in the next 12-24 months becuase of said buissiness practices ? No
Once the cost cutting runs out we can expect GW to see a huge drop in profits.
No.
Reducing operating expenses usually leads to increased profits, not the other way around. If they can keep the same amount of revenue and cost less to operate next year, than they did this year, they make more profits. That's why companies do that. We are still in a recession, most companies are looking for ways to tighten their belts and eliminate what they consider wasted expenses.
GW has no plan for getting out of their decline.
For the love of the Emperor, you have NO way of knowing that
adamsouza wrote: 2.) Not being in a legal battle with Chapter House alone, will save them buckets of money
No it won't. GW's legal expenses are an obscene amount of money compared to the average person's salary, but compared to GW's total revenue they're not all that much. Removing that expense is obviously a good thing, but it doesn't change the fundamental problems with GW's current situation.
No market research
Again, you have no way of actually knowing that.
GW's own financial report proudly states that they don't do market research.
and every crappy video game someone churns out with Space Marines in it is money they make doing nothing themselves.
And this is why GW's IP is poorly leveraged. Why are they settling for bad iphone games instead of making good games? Where are the space marine t-shirts?
They saw how well Apple Ipads/Iphones were selling and thought, "Hey we can do that to !!", which they have to some extant, because, you know they are still turning a profit.
Except they're making less profit. If you increase prices and make less money it means you've lost sales volume. GW is obsessively milking the cash cow of their remaining customers, but every time they milk it they lose a few more customers with nobody to replace them.
Reducing operating expenses usually leads to increased profits, not the other way around. If they can keep the same amount of revenue and cost less to operate next year, than they did this year, they make more profits. That's why companies do that. We are still in a recession, most companies are looking for ways to tighten their belts and eliminate what they consider wasted expenses.
Sigh. You completely missed the point there. Reducing operating expenses leads to increased profits, but you can't keep reducing operating expenses indefinitely. Right now that reduction in expenses is the only reason GW's numbers aren't much worse than they are. Once GW runs out of ways to reduce expenses they will no longer be keeping up with the annual decreases in revenue, and profits will start to drop. But let's give an example (with completely imaginary numbers):
2012 revenue: $100 million
2012 expenses: $80 million
2012 profit: $20 million
2012 revenue: $90 million
2013 expenses: $75 million
2013 profit: $15 million
Here we have a company that, like GW, has experienced a decline in both revenue and expenses. They lost 10% of their revenue and saw a 25% drop in profit, which is a pretty bad year. But the real situation is a lot worse. If they hadn't been able to cut costs by $5 million they would have suffered a 50% drop in profit. So their future depends on how much more they can cut their expenses. If they can continue to cut expenses every year they might be able to keep up with the decline in revenue and suffer only moderate losses in profit. But if they run out of things to cut their profit could disappear very quickly. For example, if 2014 sees another $10 million loss in revenue without matching cuts in expenses our hypothetical company will be down to $5 million in profit, a 75% drop compared to 2012.
For the love of the Emperor, you have NO way of knowing that
Of course we have a way of knowing it, we can look at GW's current behavior. If they had any kind of plan for reversing their current decline they'd be doing it, as they're well past the point where they should be concerned about the problem and start trying to fix it. Instead we see the same old business as usual that is responsible for their decline. Quality is down, prices are up, and GW's customers are rats fleeing a sinking ship.
There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices.
I agree with you on that, but GW had a stellar record bullying smaller companies with Law Suits before Chapter House, so that was entirely unexpected to them.
I doubt they will be involved in any this coming year.
That assumes that Chapterhouse isn't going to drag them through the appeals process, which Chapterhouse has no reason to not do.
They've got a highly prestigious law firm working pro-bono, and many people here on dakka who work in the law sector believe they have a good chance of overturning many of the decisions that went against them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/28 02:55:40
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Figures we are seeing are also pre 7th edition release ?
all costs to be cut are.
1.) You have no way of knowing that 2.) Not being in a legal battle with Chapter House alone, will save them buckets of money
No market research
Again, you have no way of actually knowing that.
GW has been convinced for years that their most profitable demographic is teenage boys with disposable income who will play the game for 6 months to a year, and will probably play Space Marines. They got that idea from research from somewhere.
I'm certain GW is paying someone for marketing research. Someone conivinced them they could rebrand themselves as a collectables company, and not a toy maker, and charge premium prices after the rebranding. That smells distinctly of marketing redifining the paradigm nonsense.
poorly leveraged IP
That is a matter of opinion. They are not losing money on IP. FFG produces great products in the 40K universe, and every crappy video game someone churns out with Space Marines in it is money they make doing nothing themselves.
frivolous law suits
I agree with you on that, but GW had a stellar record bullying smaller companies with Law Suits before Chapter House, so that was entirely unexpected to them.
I doubt they will be involved in any this coming year.
higher and higher prices for less and less content.
They saw how well Apple Ipads/Iphones were selling and thought, "Hey we can do that to !!", which they have to some extant, because, you know they are still turning a profit.
Do I agree with GW's buissiness practices ? No
Do I see them crashing and burning in the next 12-24 months becuase of said buissiness practices ? No
Once the cost cutting runs out we can expect GW to see a huge drop in profits.
No.
Reducing operating expenses usually leads to increased profits, not the other way around. If they can keep the same amount of revenue and cost less to operate next year, than they did this year, they make more profits. That's why companies do that. We are still in a recession, most companies are looking for ways to tighten their belts and eliminate what they consider wasted expenses.
GW has no plan for getting out of their decline.
For the love of the Emperor, you have NO way of knowing that
I don't like this style of posting in the least, so to acknowledge just a smidgen... you haven't actually read any of the relevant threads, obviously. They have leveled their entire staffing to the absolutely minimum (in the financial report), cut all almost all multi-staff stores (in the financial report), and they discuss about the costs associated with doing so, however year over year expenses excluding these costs barely changed (guess what? in the financial report).
They are poorly leveraging their IP simply because we can trace back through the financial reports (broken record) to show they made a killing with titles such as Space Marine and the Dawn of War series. Now, they have a few trade deals with FFG and are leverage their IP to shovelware game producers for mobile devices. And no, not every game they make is an instant seller of tons because again, you guessed it... you can check the royalties each year in the financial reports. Those are down. Surprise.
And the "turning a profit" thing is cute, but not relevant. The important part is while all this obviously bad "stuff" is going down, their profits have taken a massive hit; either 42% including temporary expenditures such as severance packages to flatten the corporate structure, or 25% without considering said expenditures. All while prices have been increasing. Meaning sales volumes continue to fall. At some point, the only thing left to cut in terms of cost is items directly linked towards revenue generation.
And we know they have no plan for coming out of this decline as their last financial statement and the words of Lord Kirby are indicative of such. So don't act like you're preaching some wisdom when it strongly appears that you are not spun up on the current facts of the matter. Games Workshop is hurting and is readily running itself into the ground based upon the information they've relayed to the public. They've given no indication to their shareholder that they have any magic outside of their "jewel-like wonders that are Games Workshop miniatures" (actual quote from... guess!).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/28 05:08:17
Uhm... I'm gonna guess 'What is in the financial report?', Alex.
The Auld Grump... (Appropriate... GW is in jeopardy.... )
Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.
The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
As I mentioned, Historical's, especially WWII are still going strong. With the steady release of 28mm figures for WWII old and new gamer's have come on board. There should be no reason why the GW range can't continue, they just need to do something and not rest on their laurels.
With out crossing in to the subject matter of other posts I do wonder if they should concentrate on taking 40k back to being about the gaming and introduce the Horus Heresy period as their "shiney, awesome" range. All that lost tech that can be turned into models as well as all those races the Great Crusade exterminated., rather than wedging in models to the 40k universe "just cos".
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I can now be found on Facebook under the name of Wulfstan Design
Wolfstan wrote: As I mentioned, Historical's, especially WWII are still going strong. With the steady release of 28mm figures for WWII old and new gamer's have come on board. There should be no reason why the GW range can't continue, they just need to do something and not rest on their laurels.
With out crossing in to the subject matter of other posts I do wonder if they should concentrate on taking 40k back to being about the gaming and introduce the Horus Heresy period as their "shiney, awesome" range. All that lost tech that can be turned into models as well as all those races the Great Crusade exterminated., rather than wedging in models to the 40k universe "just cos".
That's something I'm surprised they haven't done. Do a Great Crusade type of game that has all those extinct races as unique forces and they can keep things going. Or, better yet, push the narrative forward and fracture the Imperium to make Imperial vs. Imperial something that can have a narrative behind it instead of playing "Who's the Heretic"
"They do no market research."
"You have no way of knowing that."
That's kinda funny because they said quite proudly that they don't, so yes, we can know that.
Sir, you have to go read the preamble and the financial report. Sure, they're still making a profit that that's not the entire picture. There's a lot more going on.
Also, check out my history blog: Minimum Wage Historian, a fun place to check out history that often falls between the couch cushions.
To get back to the life cycle idea, I recently starting thinking of GW's success as one of demographics.
When they grew from a UK importer of D&D to a worldwide seller of miniatures, the children of the baby boom generation where hitting their teenage years. They had a massive market that grew up with them through the 90s.
Then the Lord of the Rings boom happened. They maintained their focus on teenagers and made millions on the strength of the movies. Kirby even made the list of overpaid CEOs in the UK because of how much he was taking home in bonus money.
When LOTR faded, GW kept it's focus on the same demographic. But where were their customers? They were getting into their late 20s and 30s and today the same people that made up the bulk of their customer base are in their 30s. All while GW maintained it's focus on 14-19 year olds. Jervis even wrote in white dwarf that the codex needed to be accessible to this (then) 12 year old son.
So you've got GW growing on a demographic shift and then just accepting that their customers were just going to get old and leave, so they better concentrate on appealing to new young ones.
And now they've adopted a retail model which decreases every one of their stores exposure (in terms of hours) to these potential new customers and has resulted in a significant drop in revenue in the last two reports.
They're not replacing the customers that drop out fast enough and the great demographic shift of the children of the baby boomers is over for them. So now it's time for their decline unless they can figure out a plan to turn things around. Given that the current management seems proud that they don't do market research and don't ask the market what it wants, I have my doubts about their ability to do so.
Balance in pick up games? Two people, each with their own goals for the game, design half a board game on their own without knowing the layout of the board and hope it all works out. Good luck with that. The faster you can find like minded individuals who want the same things from the game as you, the better.
How dare you bring logic and facts to a hate fest 
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18.000 
3.500 
8.200 
3.300 
2.400 
3.100 
5.500 
2.500 
3.200 
3.000