Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Put your money where your mouth is. If you truly believe in supporting a local business, then a discount from someone else shouldn't matter. No matter how well I knew the owner, I'd never approach him for a discount on GW product. The profit margin is too thin, and you're taking money out of his pocket.

You're trying to put money into his pocket when you ask for a discount - the alternative is to buy it where you do get the discount. Some money is better than none. Price matching is a very common practice because people realise getting a small sale is preferable to getting no sale.

No, you're not. You've already decided to purchase whatever it is you're going to puchase with the discount figured in. If as the OP says, he wants to support his FLGS, then he pays full retail.

"Some money is better than none" is an extremely arrogant way of looking at how someone puts food on his family's table. Don't be disingenous about your intentions. If you want discounts, then buy from an online retailer, but don't ask the guy who has gaming tables and pays rent and utility bills to knock some of his profit off the top of your man-dollies order.

No, you haven't necessarily decided to buy it before the discount is figured in especially when it comes to GWs ridiculous prices - even more so in Australia. When we can import it for close to half the price of buying locally, that is a huge part of the decision to purchase the product or not at all. The guy can charge by the hour for his gaming tables if he wants which I'll happily pay if I choose to use them.

Disingenuous? Arrogant? Lay off mate. If you enjoy setting your money on fire, fine. The rest of us live in the real world where price matching is a common practice because we're all trying to put food on the table and paying too much for things actively hampers our ability to do that.

 Yonan wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Put your money where your mouth is. If you truly believe in supporting a local business, then a discount from someone else shouldn't matter. No matter how well I knew the owner, I'd never approach him for a discount on GW product. The profit margin is too thin, and you're taking money out of his pocket.

You're trying to put money into his pocket when you ask for a discount - the alternative is to buy it where you do get the discount. Some money is better than none. Price matching is a very common practice because people realise getting a small sale is preferable to getting no sale.

No, you're not. You've already decided to purchase whatever it is you're going to puchase with the discount figured in. If as the OP says, he wants to support his FLGS, then he pays full retail.

"Some money is better than none" is an extremely arrogant way of looking at how someone puts food on his family's table. Don't be disingenous about your intentions. If you want discounts, then buy from an online retailer, but don't ask the guy who has gaming tables and pays rent and utility bills to knock some of his profit off the top of your man-dollies order.

No, you haven't necessarily decided to buy it before the discount is figured in especially when it comes to GWs ridiculous prices - even more so in Australia. When we can import it for close to half the price of buying locally, that is a huge part of the decision to purchase the product or not at all. The guy can charge by the hour for his gaming tables if he wants which I'll happily pay if I choose to use them.

Disingenuous? Arrogant? Lay off mate. If you enjoy setting your money on fire, fine. The rest of us live in the real world where price matching is a common practice because we're all trying to put food on the table and paying too much for things actively hampers our ability to do that.

1. The OP lives in the US, not Australia. I understand that you guys get dicked with GW pricing, though. However, don't compare our situations.
2. In the US, gaming clubs are rare. Most people play in game stores. In the US, we tend to support the stores where we play. Again, don't compare our countries' situations.
3. The OP said he wants to support the store he might play at. If so, see #2 above

Keep calm and carry on.

 adamsouza wrote:
Conversation at LGS years back.

Guy: I'm thinking of building a full Space Marine Company. What can you do for me.
Store Owner: Just write down what you want, and I can have it here in 2 weeks.
Guy: Any discount ?
Store Owner: No. We don't give discounts on Warhammer stuff
Guy: It's a pretty big order, and I can get it online for 20% off.
Store Owner: If I sold it at 20% off I would have to sell TWICE as much product.
Guy:
Store Owner: It's just not worth it
Guy: So you would rather make 0% than 20%
Store Owner: I would have to sell TWICE as much product, It's just not worth it

We still laugh about it to this day.

Far too often, FLGS are owned and operated as a hobby, by people without a degree in business or have a business background. The smart ones will hire someone that does, so they at least don't operate at a lose.

My LGS don't exactly have a large selection of GW product on the shelf. So if they have what I want on the self, I'll buy it regardless of the price just so I don't need to deal shipping and can start working it right away.

 Yonan wrote:

No, you haven't necessarily decided to buy it before the discount is figured in especially when it comes to GWs ridiculous prices - even more so in Australia. When we can import it for close to half the price of buying locally, that is a huge part of the decision to purchase the product or not at all. The guy can charge by the hour for his gaming tables if he wants which I'll happily pay if I choose to use them.

Part of it is a perspective problem. As an Aussie, you're being gently robbed every time you choose to buy a GW product. I get that. You also may have a local club where you can pay to play or pay dues. In the US, people either choose to play in a store, or they play at home with a group of friends. If you play at a store, you should shop there. Not exclusively, but it should be part of your consideration when making online purchases.

Disingenuous? Arrogant? Lay off mate. If you enjoy setting your money on fire, fine. The rest of us live in the real world where price matching is a common practice because we're all trying to put food on the table and paying too much for things actively hampers our ability to do that.

You're not seriously comparing your use of discretionary funds to buy a luxury product to a guy who makes his living in the retail business being told "some money is better than none," are you? Again, if you use the store to game in, then buy your stuff in THAT place. If you don't, then find the best deal and don't worry about me heating my mansion with stacks of cash I made off the backs of disenfranchised labor

Edit: Ninja'd by kronk who said it more succintly...

This is true. To be honest, most game shops only make a small portion of their money through selling Wwargaming products. They keep it there because it does bring in some and it is eye candy to draw customers. the BIG money maker is such items like collectible card games. with them you HAVE to continuously buy the new stuff while with wargaming you can buy a space marine and still be using that same space marine 20 years later.
So the loss of a few sales on wargaming because of the price really is not a huge loss to them. Chances are, you'll still make the impulse buys because you dont want to wait and snacks while your gaming there. Let them lose sales from the cards and it really is a huge loss and will likely put them out of business.
Of course money is money and a savvy owner will give a small discount because they will still make a profit and word of it will get around and draw him more customers. Some will even give large discounts on OOD stuff. Just bought a DV set for $50 because it had the old rulebook in it. Still a steal for me and the owner sold something that otherwise woulda just sat there tking up space as it does in the stores who still sell it for full price.
Remember that game store owners almost exclusively do not rely on the store to make a living. They are a hobby. The owner is able to build their own armies at wholesale and can play there instead of at home along with helping their buddies out. The source of funds they use to put food on their tables coes from their full time job. When it comes down to it, they either learn basic economics or they go out of business. Shops are a dime a dozen and wthin a year or so, another will open up.It is arrogant in the extreme for a store owner to have the attitude of "how dare they save money instead of buying from me at full price". That being said, I usually buy smaller items and an occasional largeer one at the local shop to support them (well as a show of support since wargaming is only a small part of their sales) but for large buys, I go where I can get the best deal.A few decades in sales and owning/operating stores will teach the value of keeping customers.

Honestly, I would very much like to support my local GW by buying stuff from them directly but I just can't justify paying €80/$104 more than when I'd buy it online. Especially since I'm a student.

I'd rather buy 2 more Carnifexes and still come out €15 cheaper because in the end I am the customer and if a shop is able to sell me another companies product 20% cheaper (and yes they are legit) then I think the problem lies with the company making the models and not me.

I gave up on buying GW stuff at the store, just does not help them out with such small margins.
I buy other things like hobby paints and tools, other games like X-wing, terrain, things that are not a fortune but some good margin.
They seem happy enough and if I happen to be hanging around they like having me help customers with 40k decisions / info = we all win.
Another hobby shop nearby they just cannot compete with so I make a point of buying things they are not too different in price.

I know I'm late to the party, but I'll chime in anyway.

Don't ask your LGS for discounts, not even in private. If the LGS wanted to sell product at a discount they would. Imagine how the other regulars would feel if they found out someone got 20% off the same item they paid retail for?

If you plan on using the LGS's gaming space on a regular basis; pony up the cash and buy it from them.

If you'll only use the LGS's gaming space infrequently, don't worry about it, buy it online for whatever discount you can get. You can make other smaller purchases at the LGS.

Appreciate all the input.

oni - I have mixed feelings. Where I moved from, all the stores sold at MSRP -20%. I don't know if they colluded to price the same, but everyone did it. No one needed to shop online because there was no price advantage. Here...everyone sells at MSRP.

 Dashofpepper wrote:
Appreciate all the input.

oni - I have mixed feelings. Where I moved from, all the stores sold at MSRP -20%. I don't know if they colluded to price the same, but everyone did it. No one needed to shop online because there was no price advantage. Here...everyone sells at MSRP.

Lucky. Outside of sales I've never had a store sell less than MSRP, which also means I almost never buy in the store. This hobby is expensive enough that saving 20% or more on a box makes it much easier to swallow, so for me that trumps everything.

 kronk wrote:
1. The OP lives in the US, not Australia. I understand that you guys get dicked with GW pricing, though. However, don't compare our situations.

The topic is a general "FLGS etiquette" not specific to the US, though yes the OP is in the US. Given the flag next to my name it should be obvious the perspective I'm arguing from.

2. In the US, gaming clubs are rare. Most people play in game stores. In the US, we tend to support the stores where we play. Again, don't compare our countries' situations.

So those people in clubs that don't take up much if any shop resources should still pay full price from them? Why can't the stores charge for the services they provide rather than fudging it through higher pricing for products? Why can't the stores make an effort to even the disparity in pricing a little, it doesn't have to be an exact match. If a discounter gives you 20% off, the local store could give 10% off and that way both win - they get the sale, you get the convenience and satisfaction of buying locally. I've supported (non-gaming) local stores that price matched as close as they could, though I could still have gotten it cheaper elsewhere.

3. The OP said he wants to support the store he might play at. If so, see #2 above

The OP said "Anyway, I'm torn. Insights welcome. Please advise me." Which is exactly what I did, give him some advice - which I was then insulted for. If my local experiences aren't relevant to him that's fine, he can decide that himself. He doesn't need posters accusing me of arrogance and being disingenuous.

Keep calm and carry on.

Try saying that to the one throwing insults.

 the_Armyman wrote:

Disingenuous? Arrogant? Lay off mate. If you enjoy setting your money on fire, fine. The rest of us live in the real world where price matching is a common practice because we're all trying to put food on the table and paying too much for things actively hampers our ability to do that.

You're not seriously comparing your use of discretionary funds to buy a luxury product to a guy who makes his living in the retail business being told "some money is better than none," are you? Again, if you use the store to game in, then buy your stuff in THAT place. If you don't, then find the best deal and don't worry about me heating my mansion with stacks of cash I made off the backs of disenfranchised labor

You're not seriously suggesting a middle-man working with man-dollies as you call them - a job at the more fun end of the spectrum - deserves huge subsidies to maintain his fun job when the rest of us are frequently stuck with less fun jobs. My argument is: if you use the store to game in, pay for gaming there, don't feel guilted into paying $100's extra per year for not so many hours of table time. Especially not if they're not going to budge on price at all.

----

There's also always the option the OP could decide against playing there, but instead to to form his own gaming group with a house rotation or hire a club room. This tends to work out much better for the players when shops are intransigent on pricing I find.

I have to jump in with Yonan here. Maybe it is different here but this whole situation to me is capitalism working as intended.

The store is not offering gaming space out of the goodness of their heart, they are doing it to add value to their products. No one ever simply deserves your money, stores have to compete for it, always. Gaming space is great for that. But if someone still can't see enough value in a product to warrent the price tag then they are free to look for better value elsewhere.

Asking your FLGS to price match is doing them a service. You are going out of your way to try and still put money in their pocket instead of someone else's.

 jonolikespie wrote:
I have to jump in with Yonan here. Maybe it is different here but this whole situation to me is capitalism working as intended.

I rather like capitalism amd believe that it's the best system in the world, so no arguments there!

The store is not offering gaming space out of the goodness of their heart, they are doing it to add value to their products. No one ever simply deserves your money, stores have to compete for it, always. Gaming space is great for that. But if someone still can't see enough value in a product to warrent the price tag then they are free to look for better value elsewhere.

I see value in the gaming space offered. Therefore, to maintain my ability to use this space, I support my store by buying *most* of my toys there at the MSRP, even though I know I can get it cheaper somewhere else. I would suggest to anyone who takes advantage of the "free" gaming space, they do likewise.

Asking your FLGS to price match is doing them a service. You are going out of your way to try and still put money in their pocket instead of someone else's.

Here's where we diverge. I respect a store owner enough not to haggle with them. Ask someone who owns a gaming store: most of them get by on 10% or less profit margin. By asking them for even a 10% discount, you are likely allowing them to break even on your business. They're making NOTHING. Not less, literally nothing.

Now, is this a one time deal? Are you an Alpha customer (I.e., the guy dropping hundreds in his store every month)? Are you paying in cash? These are things that might alter the equation. A store owner might take a hit if he thinks your long-term business is worth more to him than a little more in the till this week.

Wargaming in storesis mostly ust a draw to bring in players.
Kid "Wow mom, look at these cool armies. I want one"
Mom to store owner "how much does an army cost?"
Store owner "$750 for a basic one"
Mom to kid "Here, lets just get this deck of cards. its only $15"
Store owner to himself "I make so much more money on the cards and she doesnt know that she will end up spending 10 times as much money on the cards bwa ha ha'
I've been in the retail store ownership business over 25 years and have seen firsthand what works and what doesnt. My family has ALWAYS done well by offering discounts and such while I have seen close friends fail because they did not and seen others prosper because they did.
Game stores are a dime a dozen and easy to find. If you have spare money to spend by paying full price for everything because you want to play in public go right ahead. if you are not independantly wealthy and done mind playing at home or in a garage or whatnot, dont pay full price. The simple fact is, it is up to the store owner as to what theywant to sell for and if you want to pay less the ONLY way to show disrespect in asking is in HOW you ask not in the act of asking.
If the store fails, you can still play at home, still play the same opponnts just notin public. Sure enough, someone else will make a go of it and either the cycle will restart or the new store will follow a better model and prosper.

We have had this conversation many times on many different forums. It usally either gets to the point of agreeing to disagree or people get tired of argueing or it gets personal and the thread gets closed. No consensus is ever reached. lol

 EVIL INC wrote:
Wargaming in storesis mostly ust a draw to bring in players.
Kid "Wow mom, look at these cool armies. I want one"
Mom to store owner "how much does an army cost?"
Store owner "$750 for a basic one"
Mom to kid "Here, lets just get this deck of cards. its only $15"
Store owner to himself "I make so much more money on the cards and she doesnt know that she will end up spending 10 times as much money on the cards bwa ha ha'

Yes, there are different % of markup on different products. We were talking about miniature games, with GW in particular. Some gamers do everything (cards, RPGs, boardgames, minis), most probably dabble but have a particular interest, and then some do one thing (me).

Also, why are you trying to sell an entire $750 army to Mom? I would have thought it would make more sense to sell a HQ blister and a couple boxes of troops or a battleforce or a starter set (with 2 armies). How you sell is just as important as what you sell.

I've been in the retail store ownership business over 25 years and have seen firsthand what works and what doesnt. My family has ALWAYS done well by offering discounts and such while I have seen close friends fail because they did not and seen others prosper because they did.

What's the name of your gaming store? Any time I travel, I try and visit local establishments. I might have already been in yours.

On discounts, do you offer them to every person who walks through your door? Is a sign posted on your merchandise? Or do you offer it on a one-to-one basis? If you offer discounts to your alphas, I can understand that. But what happens when you give a discount to customer A and not to customer B, and then customer B finds out? That would irritate me as a customer, tbh.

Game stores are a dime a dozen and easy to find. If you have spare money to spend by paying full price for everything because you want to play in public go right ahead. if you are not independantly wealthy and done mind playing at home or in a garage or whatnot, dont pay full price. The simple fact is, it is up to the store owner as to what theywant to sell for and if you want to pay less the ONLY way to show disrespect in asking is in HOW you ask not in the act of asking.

In my locality, we've had one, long-running game store within an hour's drive, and I don't live in a rural area. Only in the last ten years, has that one game store had any competition from another stable games retailer. There have been others, but they've all failed. So, gaming store startups maybe a dime a dozen in your opinion, but gaming store successes are not.

If the store fails, you can still play at home, still play the same opponnts just notin public. Sure enough, someone else will make a go of it and either the cycle will restart or the new store will follow a better model and prosper.

Most of my friends who game I've met in gaming stores. It's an important environment for the gaming community. I support that environment by shopping there, gaming there, and paying the price on the box. Seems pretty obvious to me.

We closed our store down. Not because we were not making enough money but because we did not have time to keep it going with other jobs. Captain Carl ran a successfull one as well in keyser and Dave just moved into his 3rd location (each move was to a bigger place because his success is getting bigger and bigger. His sho is "Your Hobby place".
Our store was Pratts grocery and variety. We sold everything from gaming items to swords to food. The discounts we offered was on the package. Instead of giving percentages, we took the percentage off and made it the price (many shops will do this and put a sign up although players will know it just by looking at the price. Dave gives the discount at the register. Generally given to "regulers".
I agree, the startups are a dime a dozen while successfull ones are rare. You will notice that the failures invariably do not offer discounts while the successfull ones do. Not to say those are the reasons, but we can agree they are a facter. lol
Fo some gaming communities, the store is important. For others, it is not even needed at all. Of course, meeting most friends at a store is a story for some while others can say the opposite. Independantly wealthy players should have no problems paying full price for everything and the store never giving any sort of discounts or deals. The rest of us ill give the store the support we are able. For some of us, it is making smaller purchases there while for others, it is making larger ones. Telling players they HAVE to buy ALL gaming supplies at the store can be seen as being fg. I say, give the store the support you are able. This ability varies from person to person. Just because many of us are not up to your financial standards does not makeus bad people. Likewise, a shop owner who fails to take into consideration the means of the clientelle will fail. The smart one takes it into consideration and prices accordingly and expands to sell other items that make more $ to cover for it. It all comes down to basic economics.

.

 EVIL INC wrote:
We closed our store down. Not because we were not making enough money but because we did not have time to keep it going with other jobs. Captain Carl ran a successfull one as well in keyser and Dave just moved into his 3rd location (each move was to a bigger place because his success is getting bigger and bigger. His sho is "Your Hobby place".

I don't know who Dave and Captain Carl are, so I'll take your word for it.

Our store was Pratts grocery and variety. We sold everything from gaming items to swords to food. The discounts we offered was on the package. Instead of giving percentages, we took the percentage off and made it the price (many shops will do this and put a sign up although players will know it just by looking at the price. Dave gives the discount at the register. Generally given to "regulers".

I think I did mention something about giving discounts to good customers, so I get that. If your business was successful and you walked away from it because your other ventures were more lucrative, why not hire a manager on commission? Seems odd to just let it go.

I agree, the startups are a dime a dozen while successfull ones are rare. You will notice that the failures invariably do not offer discounts while the successfull ones do. Not to say those are the reasons, but we can agree they are a facter. lol

Again, not my experience. The two successful stores do not give blanket discounts on product. I've known them to give discounts to specific people and I've actually gotten discounts on occasion, as well. If that has worked for you and the other guys you know, then that's cool.

Fo some gaming communities, the store is important. For others, it is not even needed at all. Of course, meeting most friends at a store is a story for some while others can say the opposite. Independantly wealthy players should have no problems paying full price for everything and the store never giving any sort of discounts or deals. The rest of us ill give the store the support we are able. For some of us, it is making smaller purchases there while for others, it is making larger ones. Telling players they HAVE to buy ALL gaming supplies at the store can be seen as being fg. I say, give the store the support you are able. This ability varies from person to person. Just because many of us are not up to your financial standards does not makeus bad people. Likewise, a shop owner who fails to take into consideration the means of the clientelle will fail. The smart one takes it into consideration and prices accordingly and expands to sell other items that make more $ to cover for it. It all comes down to basic economics.

Have I given you the impression that I'm rich? I certainly hope not, because it's not the case. In fact, my family lives on a pretty tight budget and my hobby purchases are pretty controlled: I spend about $40 a month on the hobby.

In the end, store owners CAN offer discounts to compete. Customers CAN choose to shop online to save money. Neither of these are my experiences in my little corner of the world.

stopcallingmechief wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:
Put your money where your mouth is. If you truly believe in supporting a local business, then a discount from someone else shouldn't matter. No matter how well I knew the owner, I'd never approach him for a discount on GW product. The profit margin is too thin, and you're taking money out of his pocket.

You're trying to put money into his pocket when you ask for a discount - the alternative is to buy it where you do get the discount. Some money is better than none. Price matching is a very common practice because people realise getting a small sale is preferable to getting no sale.

what percentage of zero does the store get when somebody buys it online for cheaper? money talks and this hobby is to expensive as it is to go throwing money around at full price on these models. If the store owner is not an idiot, he prolly will offer you some sort of discount and if he dosnt, and your choice is now to not buy the model, buy it cheaper online or buy it for full price, i cant blame a guy who forgoes option 3 and looks out for his own interests and his bank accounts bottom line. There are lots of places to play where you dont have to feel obligated to overpay for plastic soldiers because your shamed into it.

Exalted for the cold, hard truth. Only a sucker pays full price when they can get a discount and virtually guaranteed anything in stock versus either having to wait to place an order or hope the store has it on the shelf. There's basically zero reason to shop at a FLGS if they don't offer a discount unless you feel charitable.

Yep. Feeling charitable is fine, but to not only expect it but criticise those who aren't is a bit off.

There is also the instant gratification factor.