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Hello!

I'm just learning 7th Edition 40k, am new to everything. I'm reading through Waaaugh! Ghazghkull and see the Green Tide Formation.

It consists of 1 Warboss + 10 Units of Boyz that create a giant blob.

Question #1: This formation is separate from the Force Org Chart? IE, I would need to take 1 HQ and three troops in addition to 1 Warboss and 10 units of Boyz?

Question #2: If that is true, would the boyz from my Troop choices be able to merge into the green tide blob?

Question #3: Would my HQ from the FoC be able to attach to the Green Tide Blob?

Question #4: Ghazghkull Thraka is a Lord of War, and a Warlord. Is he a Warboss? IE, can he be the Warboss leading the Green Tide formation?

1, yes, no. the formation counts as a detachment, but you could take an additional detachment including 1HQ & 3 troops (combined arms detachment)
2, no
3, yes assuming he's an IC
4, no

Another poster (Kangodo) came up with a reasonably good FAQ/Chart on the topic of Detachments in 7th

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/608505.page

sirlynchmob wrote:
1, yes, no. the formation counts as a detachment, but you could take an additional detachment including 1HQ & 3 troops (combined arms detachment)
2, no
3, yes assuming he's an IC
4, no

Ah. So a standard 40k game would allow for the Green Tide formation to be the primary detachment? No additional models required to meet basic FOC?

Dash - essentially armies have entirely changed, in terms of how you build them

You have two basic methods - one where you fit all units into *detachments*, with the old FOC we knew so well being an EXAMPLE of a detachment (called combined arms detachment) - but not a mandatory one - and ALL formations being a type of detachment. Every unit, however, can oly be picekd as part of ONE detachment - your 10 troops in a green tide cannot also form the basic 2 troops of a CAD, for example. You would still need 2 troops in that CAD

Or you take whatever units you like, no restrictions barring points.

So for example, you could take an army which has nothing in it but a green tide formation. Or that is composed of Tau Firebase Cadre.

There is no longer a "basic FOC" - this concept doesnt exist.

So, Ghazzy COULD join your greentide, but as he is the Warlord and ISNT from the detachment, he doesnt gain the detachment benefits of being able to waaaagh! every turn - only the warboss as part of the detachment does, and onl if THAT warboss is also your warlord. No way to get ghazzy waaaaghing! every turn for a 2++

However onthing stops you taking, say, a CAD with Ghazzy in it to lead another nasty unit, and a greentide, using a big mek and pain boy from the CAD joined to the Greentide, giving the whole thing FNP and for some models a 5++.

Essentially, throw out the old ways of building an army, and now see it as more of a building blocks approach - each detachment, which includes formations, is part of how you build an army, and you pick and choose which detachments you want, based on what are availale.

nosferatu1001, I remember you! Now you are the master, and I the padawan...

Good to see old faces.

So - making sure I understand this using an example.

-You and I are going to sit down and play a bog-standard 40k game. No unbound, no Apocalypse...whatever the closest thing is to "normal" 40k, like 5th Edition 40k.
-Let's say 2000 points.

Using the Ork FOC (1 HQ + 3 Troops), with the rest of the FOC slots available is called a Combined Arms Detachment.
-Having a CAD is or is not required prior to using a different detachment type? (like Green Tide).

Not quite... there are a couple of pictures around describing how to build an army, here is my crappy variant:



The picture shows a legal army under 7th ed bound rules You basically pick any number of detachments and/or formations and fulfill their minimum requirements. You can then add optional choices to detachments up to the maximum provided in each of their FOCs. You cannot add anything to formations.

This means that you take just one formation (the green tide) and make it your primary detachment, but you're limited to the 10 boyz mobs and the warboss. If you want more you either need another formation or detachment.

 Dashofpepper wrote:
nosferatu1001, I remember you! Now you are the master, and I the padawan...

Good to see old faces.

So - making sure I understand this using an example.

-You and I are going to sit down and play a bog-standard 40k game. No unbound, no Apocalypse...whatever the closest thing is to "normal" 40k, like 5th Edition 40k.
-Let's say 2000 points.

Using the Ork FOC (1 HQ + 3 Troops), with the rest of the FOC slots available is called a Combined Arms Detachment.
-Having a CAD is or is not required prior to using a different detachment type? (like Green Tide).

I'd like to clarify that a Combined Arms Detachment, or a CAD is the one present in the rulebook.
The one presented anywhere else is just a detachment (it may have a name in the codex), but is NOT a Combined Arms Detachment (CAD).

It may sound trivial, but the difference is that (so far) only a CAD gives objective secured, and has different mandatory and optional choices.

Dash - as others have said, the CAD is the rule books detachment. Other armies each get their own special detachment(s), with a different FOC and special rules for fielding that detachment.

The *only* requirement for a battle forged army, is that every unit in your army belongs to one, and only one, detachment.

Thats it.

You get *no benefit* for being a battle forged army. Any benefits are given per detachment based on the detachment rules.

There are no requirements/restrictions on the number of detachments, the type of detachments, the percentage of units, etc... .none of that.

Now... specific detachments *may* have their own restrictions and their own benefits.
CAD must all be from the same Faction
Allied must be from a different Faction as the primary.
A specific detachment may require only units from Orks, or only from Grey Knights.

I might look at it this way Dash, a combined arms detachment CAD is basically the old FOC. It consists of 1 mandatory HQ, and 2 troops choices. After that you get the usual E, FA, HS, TR choices.

However, you are now allowed to take more than one Detachment, and thus get more than one FOC. Furthermore, the new army books also have an alternate detachment/FOC that you are allowed to use. In the case of Codex Orks it is 1 HQ and 3 TR mandatory, with up to 3 total HQs and some other stuff as well. Furthermore, the different types of detachments such as the Combined Arms detachment from the main rulebook, the Ork Horde detachment from the Ork Codex, and the Great WAAAAGH detachment form the Ghazghkull supplement each give their own special rules and their own requirements/alterations to the basic FOC.

You are also allowed to mix and match these. So I could take a combined arms detachment using the building blocks form the main rulebook, an Ork Horde detachment using the setup from Codex Orks, and a WAAAGH detachment using the supplement. I don't know why I would do this, but it is possible.

If all of that was not confusing enough you can also purchase formations such as the green tide you mentioned above. These act as their own min-prefab detachments. You can purchase upgrades and equipment for the units/models listed, but the only models/units you can purchase are the ones listed. Thus, the green tide could not have 11 units of Boyz. But you could give each unit of Boyz a Nob, or some of the units shootas instead of sluggas and then other units 'Eavy Armor.

edited to remove bad capitalization because I am slightly OCD.

laughterofgods wrote:
I might look at it this way Dash, a combined arms detachment CAD is basically the old FOC. It consists of 1 mandatory HQ, and 2 troops choices. After that you get the usual E, FA, HS, TR choices.

I personally prefer it if people forget the old FOC.
Because more often than not it creates confusion for players that don't understand the new way of building armies.

Jidmah's image is really good and could certainly help people to understand it better.