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As everyone knows the imperium is on its last legs and merely surviving due to the authors at GW allowing them buy time through battes, but anyways are there any theories out there that show a possible scenario where the imperium does pull itself out of the hole its made. By this I of course mean other than the Emporer rising back up and saving mankind or finally dying and moving into the warp to slap the chaos gods around. I've gotten interested by this because my friend suggested a very random but intriguing theory of how things could end up. He told me that there is a chance that the ultramarines and all its successor chapters are eliminated entirely, through a tyranid assault or a more popular belief is that theyll go crazy with their complete commitment to the codex astartes. After they do remove themselves from the picture my friend continues to explain that with the ultramarines and their nazi beliefs in the codex gone, that the remaining chapters will further themselves to legions and once again build numbers up to the hundreds of thousands. Is this theory possible, yes. Is it likely, no. But still its fun to make up intereting possiblities for the outcome of the inprium making a comeback. What do you guys think will happen?

That doesn't work, 'cause the other chapters completely ignore the Ultramarines when it suits them. Even Ultramarine successors like the Angels Revenant can be wildly codex divergent.

In any case, the Imperium will rise again when the Adeptus Mechanicus realise that without the Legio Cybernetica, they simply can't hold back the tide of darkness. When they unseal that vault, they will regain not only mighty war machines, but the most sacred and vital technology of all: remote control.

They find a working STC and the Emperor returns somehow.

acidlemon wrote:
As everyone knows the imperium is on its last legs and merely surviving due to the authors at GW allowing them buy time through battes, but anyways are there any theories out there that show a possible scenario where the imperium does pull itself out of the hole its made. By this I of course mean other than the Emporer rising back up and saving mankind or finally dying and moving into the warp to slap the chaos gods around. I've gotten interested by this because my friend suggested a very random but intriguing theory of how things could end up. He told me that there is a chance that the ultramarines and all its successor chapters are eliminated entirely, through a tyranid assault or a more popular belief is that theyll go crazy with their complete commitment to the codex astartes. After they do remove themselves from the picture my friend continues to explain that with the ultramarines and their nazi beliefs in the codex gone, that the remaining chapters will further themselves to legions and once again build numbers up to the hundreds of thousands. Is this theory possible, yes. Is it likely, no. But still its fun to make up intereting possiblities for the outcome of the inprium making a comeback. What do you guys think will happen?

The Ultramarines part doesn't make all that sense to be honest. They demonstrated to be able to ignore the Codex Astartes in the few occasions needed (for example in the Battle of Macragge). Also not all the other chapters are following blindly the codex, but things aren't changing much anyway in terms of numbers.

The way the Imperium is today make it really difficult if not impossible to have a great change in the status of things.

Abandoning their current religious institutions and adopting a forward-looking technological view is the only way to survive. So the Ad-mech need a reformation after the destruction of the priesthood.

Well unless the emperor returns somehow ofcourse.

Eh, Dark Angels will probably save everybody's sorry ass whenever Lion decides to stop taking a nap and get to leading a new military campaign. Of all Primarchs, he's the guy that could lead a successful new crusade on Chaos and/or Tyranids.

Kill of every ex-Ultramarine, and you're screwed over sooo much worse. Grouping everyone back into Legions does nothing. The Primarchs are gone, archeotech lost, and they could be rivalries between joined factions. Nothing gained.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
That doesn't work, 'cause the other chapters completely ignore the Ultramarines when it suits them. Even Ultramarine successors like the Angels Revenant can be wildly codex divergent.

In any case, the Imperium will rise again when the Adeptus Mechanicus realise that without the Legio Cybernetica, they simply can't hold back the tide of darkness. When they unseal that vault, they will regain not only mighty war machines, but the most sacred and vital technology of all: remote control.

what do you think is down there? most of the Legio Cybernetica turned traitor in the HH and is in the eye of terror/


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Eh, Dark Angels will probably save everybody's sorry ass whenever Lion decides to stop taking a nap and get to leading a new military campaign. Of all Primarchs, he's the guy that could lead a successful new crusade on Chaos and/or Tyranids.

I think the situation is just too far gone for any one man(or demigod) to save the day. Also if a loyal primarch did wake up/ come back to life/ return from where ever, it might be a reason for the traitor primachs to quit the self imposed isolation.

 Exergy wrote:



I think the situation is just too far gone for any one man(or demigod) to save the day. Also if a loyal primarch did wake up/ come back to life/ return from where ever, it might be a reason for the traitor primachs to quit the self imposed isolation.

It's really the last thing to worry. Any lost/asleep/non-dead Primarch returns with a vague desire to change things for the better? It's civil war all over again the second later. One the Imperium will not survive in its current state.

 Judge Dredd wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

I think the situation is just too far gone for any one man(or demigod) to save the day. Also if a loyal primarch did wake up/ come back to life/ return from where ever, it might be a reason for the traitor primachs to quit the self imposed isolation.

It's really the last thing to worry. Any lost/asleep/non-dead Primarch returns with a vague desire to change things for the better? It's civil war all over again the second later. One the Imperium will not survive in its current state.

I agree, I think the IoM is entirely screwed. It is too far gone. No small set of events or exceptional individuals can save it now.

 Exergy wrote:

 Judge Dredd wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

I think the situation is just too far gone for any one man(or demigod) to save the day. Also if a loyal primarch did wake up/ come back to life/ return from where ever, it might be a reason for the traitor primachs to quit the self imposed isolation.

It's really the last thing to worry. Any lost/asleep/non-dead Primarch returns with a vague desire to change things for the better? It's civil war all over again the second later. One the Imperium will not survive in its current state.

I agree, I think the IoM is entirely screwed. It is too far gone. No small set of events or exceptional individuals can save it now.

The Emperor's return would save the Imperium but not in the traditional sense of "saving". I can basically see him restarting the Great Crusade, starting with Terra and moving outwards once again. The Imperium as it is now would not survive, but there would be a new Imperium in its place.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
That doesn't work, 'cause the other chapters completely ignore the Ultramarines when it suits them. Even Ultramarine successors like the Angels Revenant can be wildly codex divergent.

In any case, the Imperium will rise again when the Adeptus Mechanicus realise that without the Legio Cybernetica, they simply can't hold back the tide of darkness. When they unseal that vault, they will regain not only mighty war machines, but the most sacred and vital technology of all: remote control.

The remote control STC is lost forever in the golden cushions of the Emperor's Golden Sofa

 Exergy wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
That doesn't work, 'cause the other chapters completely ignore the Ultramarines when it suits them. Even Ultramarine successors like the Angels Revenant can be wildly codex divergent.

In any case, the Imperium will rise again when the Adeptus Mechanicus realise that without the Legio Cybernetica, they simply can't hold back the tide of darkness. When they unseal that vault, they will regain not only mighty war machines, but the most sacred and vital technology of all: remote control.

what do you think is down there? most of the Legio Cybernetica turned traitor in the HH and is in the eye of terror/

Source?

Most importantly than a handful of robots, they would regain the technology to form remote, wireless links to battlefield technology. Imagine if you only needed a single Techpriest to directly control an entire battery of fifteen Tarantulas, giving them smart targeting and accurate fire rather than simply spraying shots at the nearest target. Far from being a desperate defence of the Imperium metre by bloody metre, it would turn holding off the xenos hordes into a turret defence game!

acidlemon wrote:
As everyone knows the imperium is on its last legs and merely surviving due to the authors at GW allowing them buy time through battes, but anyways are there any theories out there that show a possible scenario where the imperium does pull itself out of the hole its made. By this I of course mean other than the Emporer rising back up and saving mankind or finally dying and moving into the warp to slap the chaos gods around. I've gotten interested by this because my friend suggested a very random but intriguing theory of how things could end up. He told me that there is a chance that the ultramarines and all its successor chapters are eliminated entirely, through a tyranid assault or a more popular belief is that theyll go crazy with their complete commitment to the codex astartes. After they do remove themselves from the picture my friend continues to explain that with the ultramarines and their nazi beliefs in the codex gone, that the remaining chapters will further themselves to legions and once again build numbers up to the hundreds of thousands. Is this theory possible, yes. Is it likely, no. But still its fun to make up intereting possiblities for the outcome of the inprium making a comeback. What do you guys think will happen?

Most of the other Chapters lack the infrastructure to recruit numbers in sufficient size to return to Legion strength. The Space Wolves, for example, hold only a single, sparsely-populated (for a planet) world from which to draw their recruits. Their geneseed does not work in the bodies of men from any other world in the Imperium. The Space Wolves, then, are just about as big as they're ever going to get. Sure, maybe they could stop campaigning for a few centuries and replenish their current losses, getting all of their Great Companies up to 200 or so Battle-Brothers... but that is still only around 3000 Marines in the entire Chapter. That's not a Legion (in the Great Crusade sense of the word... in the technical sense, it's 3 legions).

The Exorcist and Grey Knights have such stringent requirements for membership that neither of these Chapters is going to go on a mass recruitment drive any time soon. This is all beyond the fact that the Space Marines simply are not allowed, by Imperial Law, to do this. A few Chapters get away with being above the limit through creative book-keeping and political clout, but the tolerance of the Inquisition goes only so far. There's also the fact that a lot of Chapters don't like other Chapters, so the Space Marines bulking up to Legion strength again is making another Heresy not only likely, but inevitable.

So... no. The theory is neither likely nor even possible in most cases.

Abandoning their current religious institutions and adopting a forward-looking technological view is the only way to survive. So the Ad-mech need a reformation after the destruction of the priesthood.

The last time they did that, they drove mankind to the brink of extinction, because they created the Men of Iron. That isn't going to be allowed to happen again. To begin reformation is to begin revolution.

 Orblivion wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 Judge Dredd wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

I think the situation is just too far gone for any one man(or demigod) to save the day. Also if a loyal primarch did wake up/ come back to life/ return from where ever, it might be a reason for the traitor primachs to quit the self imposed isolation.

It's really the last thing to worry. Any lost/asleep/non-dead Primarch returns with a vague desire to change things for the better? It's civil war all over again the second later. One the Imperium will not survive in its current state.

I agree, I think the IoM is entirely screwed. It is too far gone. No small set of events or exceptional individuals can save it now.

The Emperor's return would save the Imperium but not in the traditional sense of "saving". I can basically see him restarting the Great Crusade, starting with Terra and moving outwards once again. The Imperium as it is now would not survive, but there would be a new Imperium in its place.

Well yes, he is beyond an exceptional individual. He is a god. And he would not save the IoM, he would save Mankind by destroying the IoM and the forces of chaos together.

Maybe. He gets a lot of psychic juice from the veneration of quintillions.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
most of the Legio Cybernetica turned traitor in the HH and is in the eye of terror/

Source?

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Legio_Cybernetica
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Legio_Cybernetica#.VADHxvmwIqc

That just states that some of them turned, a far cry from 'most'.

Honestly the biggest thing holding back chapters from expanding beyond their legions isn't even the codex, but rather the gene seed tithe they are expected to pay. each chapter is expected to tithe a portion of it's gene seed to the Adeptus Terra, and THAT is what holds the growth back. (THAT is what got the Astral Claws chapter into trouble and resulted in the Bdab war) there's certinly some flex in the system, but by and large a chapter is presumably expected to tithe half it's geneseed. this in addition to controlling numbers allows the eistablishment of new chapters, AND gives the chapter the ability to rebuild from losses they may not otherwise be able too. such as losing a company of troops in the warp

acidlemon wrote:. He told me that there is a chance that the ultramarines and all its successor chapters are eliminated entirely, through a tyranid assault or a more popular belief is that theyll go crazy with their complete commitment to the codex astartes. After they do remove themselves from the picture my friend continues to explain that with the ultramarines and their nazi beliefs in the codex gone, that the remaining chapters will further themselves to legions and once again build numbers up to the hundreds of thousands. Is this theory possible, yes. Is it likely, no. But still its fun to make up intereting possiblities for the outcome of the inprium making a comeback. What do you guys think will happen?

Your friend has been hitting the happy juice way too hard.

Realistically, the Ultramarines are probably the best hope for the Imperium, not what is holding it back. There's no central figure to command it, so the lack of "Legions" isn't really the issue. It's the lack of a cohesive vision and plan, and an impossible powerful central leadership figure.

BrianDavion wrote:
Honestly the biggest thing holding back chapters from expanding beyond their legions isn't even the codex, but rather the gene seed tithe they are expected to pay. each chapter is expected to tithe a portion of it's gene seed to the Adeptus Terra, and THAT is what holds the growth back. (THAT is what got the Astral Claws chapter into trouble and resulted in the Bdab war) there's certinly some flex in the system, but by and large a chapter is presumably expected to tithe half it's geneseed. this in addition to controlling numbers allows the eistablishment of new chapters, AND gives the chapter the ability to rebuild from losses they may not otherwise be able too. such as losing a company of troops in the warp

Incorrect. A First Founding Chapter would have approximately 13,000 unused sets of geneseed even at a 50% loss rate and the 10% tithing rate that's been stated in the fluff. A 24th Founding Chapter would still have almost 3,000 unused sets.

Space Marines are artificially limited, not physically limited.

ahh ok it's only 10%? wow, Huron is an idiot

The 50% loss rate was just to give a low end estimate too. And I was giving each Marine an average lifespan of 400 years. It could be a lot more spare sets lying around if the Marines are dying faster than that, but living to around 30 or so (meaning they'd have their extra set harvested).

But really, I did it just to demonstrate that the way the math works out, there's a lot of geneseed lying around. Space Marine Chapters would kinda end up on the Honor System.

It's also important to remember that Roboute Guilliman was the master of logistics, The writers at Games Workshop aren't too terribly concerned with trivial things like math. Otherwise you start to wonder how a Chapter that is limited to 1,000 guys can operate their stable of vehicles that require almost 500 Marines to crew.

I'm sure GW would make some fluff to let the IoM survive, my gut feeling is mind control over tyranids.... No real facts to back it up, just somthing from left field.

On a more serious point, the enemy if my enemy is my friend, the IoM just need a way to turn the heat on between tyranids chaos and necrons, to give them a bit of breathing room and let them kill each other more then the IoM.

Or the eldar could give warp transport to the tau and let them step into the battle

Working stc, emperor returning, mechanics opens up to new ideas and basically a minor miracle like return of primarchs and a whole new wave of impirial regeneration as production of advanced machines gathers pace and mankind restores its lost strength.

If they aren't Eldar they ain't screwed