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2014/09/11 04:41:27
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
That is actually a fair point. Some times there is this knee jerk reaction. Something that looks bad is placed in the this is bad pile before people have a chance to kind of take it all in and see there is something else going on.
It mostly has to do with the typical SJW reaction of pick 1 thing despite having little to no interest in the subject, do zero to minimal research, ignore contradictory evidence, call detractors misogynists, stay offended forever, and repeat. Optional choices include pretending to be a victim, and claiming that white males don't get an opinion because they are privileged racist and sexist, despite that being privileged racist and sexist....
Oh man. Maddox, he's still a thing? I remember him from when 19-year-old me was embarrassed that 15-year-old me had found him hilarious at one point.
Melissia wrote: Maddox was the guy who said he fantasized about having a business where people paid him to literally punch feces out of constipated old people. I can't really take him seriously outside of a comedic setting.
The delicious, delicious ad hominem.
2014/09/11 04:59:45
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
If you believe any particular part of his video is worth discussing, then discuss it. Simply linking the video and saying "here watch this" makes for a very lame argument and not something anyone will respond to very seriously.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/11 05:00:07
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/11 05:07:02
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
That is actually a fair point. Some times there is this knee jerk reaction. Something that looks bad is placed in the this is bad pile before people have a chance to kind of take it all in and see there is something else going on.
It mostly has to do with the typical SJW reaction of pick 1 thing despite having little to no interest in the subject, do zero to minimal research, ignore contradictory evidence, call detractors misogynists, stay offended forever, and repeat. Optional choices include pretending to be a victim, and claiming that white males don't get an opinion because they are privileged racist and sexist, despite that being privileged racist and sexist....
Well this is what I would call an awkward position. I kind of agreed with you and now I am regretting that. I mean that video did bring up a few nice and valid points and I brought up what I see as a problem with internet culture and our rapid option forming. Now you have spun that off into a slam on SJW. (A group I am apparently a part of according to some people on my steam list. )
Melissia wrote: If you believe any particular part of his video is worth discussing, then discuss it. Simply linking the video and saying "here watch this" makes for a very lame argument and not something anyone will respond to very seriously.
... Well I did...
I guess this is what I get for having a knee jerk reaction. I get to look kind of stupid for awhile.
2014/09/11 05:23:31
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
In my defense, at the time of my post, all you had posted about it was "he kind of makes a good point"
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/11 06:37:52
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Because the point he makes is a good one, what is more needs to be said, most superheroes look like they have bodypaint on.
The only point i disagree with is spandex, i guess they never heard off latex
Jehan-reznor wrote: Because the point he makes is a good one, what is more needs to be said, most superheroes look like they have bodypaint on.
The only point i disagree with is spandex, i guess they never heard off latex
Only if your superpower is not secreting sweat or skin oil. Spandex breathes.
Except he never said which point was supposedly good.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/11 08:30:37
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Stop posturing Mel. He posted the video. Your unwillingness to watch it (and joining in in attacking the creator rather than his points) just shows how unwilling you are to listen to anyone who disagrees with you.
And to swing us back:
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/11 08:52:07
LordofHats wrote: Gonna be honest. The little hankerchiefs over the nipples just kill the ensemble. I give it a B for effort but in good conscience I can't rate it any higher than that
The Second one, sorta kind of, but batman was wearing a leotard at that time.
So her costume in that show was honestly better than the games 'interpretation'.
I agree. I was talking about the idea that this first design was scantily clad because “its who we want to be.” No, it is because it is what the audience is supposed to want to gaze at.
He makes some valid arguments, but also regularly misses the point. I mean, sure, the superheroes costume have always looked like painted on (well, except of course for the crotch area, of course, especially with male characters). Sure, Spiderman is certainly the one male character that would fit in many poses of female characters. However, missing the problem of basically every heroine ever being sexualized, much much more than the male ones, for instance? Also, I disagree with his assertion that the ass is not more emphasized in the spider-woman cover than on the spiderman cover.
Chongara wrote: A racist, misogynist, fascist man who thinks he's smarter than everyone and all women are prostitutes. He writes ugly stories, with ugly illustrations about ugly people doing ugly things for ugly reasons. Here is a review of one of his works. . If iirc, he's also the original creator behind comics adapted into awful meritless swill like "Sin City".
You know, I kind of like his work. I mean, for instance, 300 the comic was pretty cool as a description of two horrible, horrible faction beating the gak out of each other. The movie where it turned into the brave american supermen of Sparta (really, I expected them to start eating apple pie and play baseball at some point) fought against the evil middle-eastern invaders of evil (the portrayal of Iranians in the South Park parody of the movie was less offensive. By far. South Park. That is saying something.) I liked Sin City too, both the comic and the movie. Not saying his work does not have problematic aspects, but I enjoyed it nonetheless.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/11 10:11:15
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2014/09/11 12:17:26
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
If you believe there is something of value from the video-- or from the laughably irrelevant gif you just posted-- surely, you can make that argument yourself.
If you are incapable of doing so, then obviously there is nothing of value in them to begin with.
This isn't posturing. It is simply me deciding that posts consisting of "here respond to this" and then lazily linking a video or a gif of an incoherent, self-congratulatory rant in lieu of an argument... just aren't worth my time.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/11 12:18:25
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/11 12:21:35
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
However, missing the problem of basically every heroine ever being sexualized, much much more than the male ones, for instance?
I must wonder how much research you put into this?
My bet is on zero.
Every time I hear "in my opinion" or "just my opinion" makes me want to strangle a puppy. People use their opinions as a shield that other poeple can't critisize and that is bs.
If you can't defend or won't defend your opinion then that "opinion" is bs. Stop trying to tip-toe and defend what you believe in.
2014/09/11 12:29:42
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
If you believe there is something of value from the video-- or from the laughably irrelevant gif you just posted-- surely, you can make that argument yourself.
If you are incapable of doing so, then obviously there is nothing of value in them to begin with.
This isn't posturing. It is simply me deciding that posts consisting of "here respond to this" and then lazily linking a video or a gif of an incoherent, self-congratulatory rant in lieu of an argument... just aren't worth my time.
Ever heard of the concept of debating in bad faith?
However, missing the problem of basically every heroine ever being sexualized, much much more than the male ones, for instance?
I must wonder how much research you put into this?
My bet is on zero.
Thats not true. She probably just looked up heroines and used the first result ^.^
You know ignoring Rogue, Storm, and several others.
Just because a costume is created that is worn by a character and it shows their boobs, even if it is inside their costume, does not mean they are sexualized otherwise, the hulk is sexualized.
Your argument on the whole matter is incorrect.
I.E. The most over sexualized characters happen in all mediums, But that does not mean every heroine is sexualized, very few are.
This whole idea that they are all sexualized I think is stupid.
Behold the greatest female character in gaming
Clementine
Yes she is a child.
and then we have another character
(Samus Aran)
And another....
(rouge)
And look another!
(Raven)
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/11 12:44:39
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Don't look at me-- I still like comic books, but I also still criticize them as well (unfortunately, some artists trace their poses for female characters from softcore porn, making them look like they're completely out of place compared to the male poses). Equally unfortunately, while, Frank Miller and Rob Liefeld are still gainfully employed in the comic book industry, I doubt it'll see much improvement.
I don't have that much of a problem with spandex in general, but you gotta admit, a skintight suit is easy to sexualize.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/09/11 12:48:22
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/11 12:48:08
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Melissia wrote: Don't look at me-- I still like comic books, but I also still criticize them as well (unfortunately, some artists trace their poses for female characters from softcore porn, making them look like they're completely out of place compared to the male poses). Unfortunately, while, Frank Miller and Rob Liefeld are still gainfully employed in the comic book industry, I doubt it'll see much improvement.
Agreed. They seem to like the hardcore big boobs message. Instead of I don't know.... A character, who is just normal, and is a girl, who doesn't have this perfect body.
From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war.
2014/09/11 12:49:37
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/11 12:56:29
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Actually most of the time Superman doesn't have pouches.
I was mostly commenting about what is known by fans as Bearded Idiot, a superman-like hobo in "Superman: At Earth's End".
You know.
Spoiler:
... that guy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/11 12:59:51
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/11 13:06:54
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
I... reeeaaallllllyyy don't think that is the case, regarding the shoulders
Though certainly she has usually been depicted as having an attractive face, I think the main thing people like about her is how much of a badass she is.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/11 13:21:54
Subject: Re:What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
It mostly has to do with the typical SJW reaction of pick 1 thing despite having little to no interest in the subject, do zero to minimal research, ignore contradictory evidence, call detractors misogynists, stay offended forever, and repeat. Optional choices include pretending to be a victim, and claiming that white males don't get an opinion because they are privileged racist and sexist, despite that being privileged racist and sexist....
You know, if you stopped asserting that people that disagree with you are SJWs and going 'we'll, SJWs don't do any research and they're stupid so I must be right'', you might have more meaningful discussions.
On the subject of the video, it's been a while since I watched it, and I'm in a bit of a rush at the moment, but does it address the fact that the guy that drew the cover is actually a softcore porn artist? And that the pose is almost an exact copy of another image of his, which consists of a woman in that position fiddling with herself to an audience? (I can't remember if it does or not, and I don't have the time nor inclination to sit through another ten minutes of Maddox ranting)
Edit: Managed to find the image in question, NSFW, obviously:
Spoiler:
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/09/11 13:31:30
Melissia wrote: I... reeeaaallllllyyy don't think that is the case, regarding the shoulders
Though certainly she has usually been depicted as having an attractive face, I think the main thing people like about her is how much of a badass she is.
I'm telling you. It's all about the arm cannon. Samus, Megaman, Megatron, and even Freiza's mooks, all understood the startling power of the arm cannon
Perhaps they're where he hides the compelling parts of his character.
Shots fired. (But, were they from an arm cannon
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/09/11 13:44:50
Arm cannons are indeed awesome yes. I made a makeshift arm cannon after playing the NES Metroid at one point
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/11 13:57:06
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Melissia wrote: I... reeeaaallllllyyy don't think that is the case, regarding the shoulders
Though certainly she has usually been depicted as having an attractive face, I think the main thing people like about her is how much of a badass she is.
I'm telling you. It's all about the arm cannon. Samus, Megaman, Megatron, and even Freiza's mooks, all understood the startling power of the arm cannon
Perhaps they're where he hides the compelling parts of his character.
Shots fired. (But, were they from an arm cannon
Deploying Forum Weapon
What I have
~4100
~1660
Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!
A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble
2014/09/11 13:58:09
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Melissia wrote: I can't really take him seriously outside of a comedic setting.
Serious in a comedic setting?
Comedy is serious business manchu.
Very serious.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2014/09/11 13:59:18
Subject: What problems do gamers have with how women are represented in games?
Melissia wrote: I... reeeaaallllllyyy don't think that is the case, regarding the shoulders
Though certainly she has usually been depicted as having an attractive face, I think the main thing people like about her is how much of a badass she is.
I'm telling you. It's all about the arm cannon. Samus, Megaman, Megatron, and even Freiza's mooks, all understood the startling power of the arm cannon
Perhaps they're where he hides the compelling parts of his character.
.
)
~4100
~1660
