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 Sigvatr wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Not only does your post mean that gamers literally raped other games to win in a game

Try reading.

Try writing.

I did.

 Melissia wrote:

It’s not a tremendous leap to assume that a community of consumers and producers is going to develop some intensely dysfunctional aggression and misogyny when this is the cultural background that we’re interacting with.

What's being asserted in this statement is that the gamer culture uses "raped" as a synonym for "defeated"; that this insinuates that "rapist" is also a synonym for "victor". Since being defeated is a negative thing and winning is a positive thing in gamer culture, being a rapist is therefor insinuated by the culture as being a good thing.

While some of the article's claims are bizarre, this one is a perfectly logical conclusion to come to. I don't agree with the article's assertion that most games inherently create or support this culture, that's baseless. But certainly gamers freely use "you just got raped!" as a term for someone losing in a game, and "We just raped the other team last round!" and similar terms for winning. And that aspect of gamer culture is and should be criticized.

 Melissia wrote:
My statement was quite clear. Gamers have, for a long time (I remember it being used back when Quake 3 was released in 1999), used rape as a positive thing that is done to other people in order to achieve victory. And in spite of your assertion, they still do so. Hell, I heard the term used several times yesterday while playing Payday 2.

Your semantical objections are irrelevant and I do not respect your obvious attempt to deflect conversation away from the topic at hand.

Fwiw, I still see people using 'rape' as a replacement word for 'overwhelming victory' these days. Both in DoWII, WoW...

Rekt is also common, but more so on forums and in sarcasm than in actual gameplay.

 Melissia wrote:
Since being defeated is a negative thing and winning is a positive thing in gamer culture, being a rapist is therefor insinuated by the culture as being a good thing.

Following that logic, as 'being owned' is an outdated but still used negative term in gaming, does that make gaming culture pro-slavery?

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Since being defeated is a negative thing and winning is a positive thing in gamer culture, being a rapist is therefor insinuated by the culture as being a good thing.

Following that logic, as 'being owned' is an outdated but still used negative term in gaming, does that make gaming culture pro-slavery?

In many ways, yes.

We gamers are not very careful about the terms we use when we celebrate victory. I'm guilty of having used both examples in the elation of having won, or the opposite for that matter.

Possibly, though it is a slightly less obvious leap.

What Melly said.

Funnily enough, as I don't play online games, this now gives me the moral high ground over everyone in this topic that does.

Or it could mean you have no place to speak because of lack of knowledge.

(No, I'm not actually saying this; Either conclusion is silly.)

 Melissia wrote:
Or it could mean you have no place to speak because of lack of knowledge.

(No, I'm not actually saying this; Either conclusion is silly.)

A lack of knowledge about online games, certainly. I freely admit to that. Those people condone sexual assault and slave ownership

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Or it could mean you have no place to speak because of lack of knowledge.

(No, I'm not actually saying this; Either conclusion is silly.)

A lack of knowledge about online games, certainly. I freely admit to that. Those people condone sexual assault and slave ownership

It does not indicate that you would have been any better in the same situation. In spite of what Sigvatr seems to think, I'm more interested in talking about it and encouraging it to stop, than I am in condemning people for doing it.

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:
You play MOBAs right? It isn't from this thread but:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2014/09/04/the-video-game-industry-has-only-itself-to-blame-for-misogyny-and-harassment/

Just play a match of more or less any competitive online game and listen to the number of times you hear the word “rape:” despite what we may think, this is not normal or inevitable. What it is, however, is a natural byproduct of the games we play.

It’s not a tremendous leap to assume that a community of consumers and producers is going to develop some intensely dysfunctional aggression and misogyny when this is the cultural background that we’re interacting with.

By playing MOBAs, or any other online game, you are developing misogyny (according to some games journalist)

I do play MOBAs (mostly Strife), but none of those quotes are saying this make me misogynous. They are saying this is making me interact with misogynous people (which thankfully is not something I actually noticed, even when playing on “arranged teams” from the France chat room with female team members on voicechat. The insults I have seen were mostly “slow”, “idiot”, “stupid”, “noob”, “braindead”, i.e. all attacking mental faculties rather than gender. But then again, I might try playing with a feminine-sounding username to see if it makes thing change.).

Let us be honest: when Anita Sarkeesian made a video on Twilight, the Twilight fans response was mostly to ignore it completely and move on. When she made videos about video game, hell broke loose. If Twillight fans had a way, way more mature and reasonable reaction than video games fans, what does that tell us about video games fans .
(Okay, the video about Twilight was very short, I singled it out just for the fun factor, but her whole series about movies had mostly movie fans agreeing and disagreeing with her doing so very quietly and reasonably compared to the big hellstorm when she even launched her quickstarter on video game. Not sure how much of it was misogyny and how much of it was persecution complex, but that seriously shows a very unhealthy community.)

The language used in multi player games and the Internet is intriguing with its overtones. I'm still in awe that the term "butt hurt" is in common parlance. Correct me if I am wrong, but it implies something, right?

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:

nomotog wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Personally I'm quite tired of being told I'm a racist misogynist because I like video games.

If your not a racist misogynist, then don't worry when people call you that. I don't get this... Actually I do get why this upsets people it's just that explaining why could be upsetting itself. (You are free to consider me stupid and ignore everything I am about to say, have said or will ever say.) People don't really get worked up about insults they know are untrue. If it really bothers you, then it might be because you see a grain of truth in the statement. I am not saying that you are a racist misogynist. (I don't know you well enough to really judge you.) I am just saying you might want to reflect on why it bothers you.

Hold the phone, what? Of course people 'get worked up' about being insulted with an untrue accusation. That's a normal thing for people to do.

"Heard you eat puppies. Oh, you're getting upset? Better hide any puppies when you're about."

I do eat puppies actually, but I eat them for fun not out of anger. In my experience people tend not to care when they are call outlandish insults that aren't true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AdeptSister wrote:
The language used in multi player games and the Internet is intriguing with its overtones. I'm still in awe that the term "butt hurt" is in common parlance. Correct me if I am wrong, but it implies something, right?

Not by itself, but when you put it next to other statements.

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Since being defeated is a negative thing and winning is a positive thing in gamer culture, being a rapist is therefor insinuated by the culture as being a good thing.

Following that logic, as 'being owned' is an outdated but still used negative term in gaming, does that make gaming culture pro-slavery?

I'd say it's not quite as bad purely because of the way the term came about. 'raped' is quite obviously coming directly from the act of raping someone, which is awful. 'owned' on the other hand came about as a corruption of 'pwned' which basically meant a humiliating victory, because if you allowed your king to be taken by a pawn (PWN) in chess, you had been 'pwned'. So 'owned' is just a corruption of a term meaning a humiliating loss, whereas 'raped' is just people being awful.

I would certainly agree with most of that, Goliath.

AdeptSister wrote:The language used in multi player games and the Internet is intriguing with its overtones. I'm still in awe that the term "butt hurt" is in common parlance. Correct me if I am wrong, but it implies something, right?

I thought it meant 'This person is angry, they were spanked'.

Goliath wrote:

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Since being defeated is a negative thing and winning is a positive thing in gamer culture, being a rapist is therefor insinuated by the culture as being a good thing.

Following that logic, as 'being owned' is an outdated but still used negative term in gaming, does that make gaming culture pro-slavery?

I'd say it's not quite as bad purely because of the way the term came about. 'raped' is quite obviously coming directly from the act of raping someone, which is awful. 'owned' on the other hand came about as a corruption of 'pwned' which basically meant a humiliating victory, because if you allowed your king to be taken by a pawn (PWN) in chess, you had been 'pwned'. So 'owned' is just a corruption of a term meaning a humiliating loss, whereas 'raped' is just people being awful.

I thought pwned came from owned, not the other way around?

Me too. Are you sure it comes from chess? Does not look like something chess player would say.

The owned thing makes more sense to me. It's a common typo to mix up the o and p keys. Even more common when your typing as fast as you can. Also you can't really capture a king with a pawn. You can use a pawn to put a king in check, but unless it is supported a lot, it's not going to work. Unless you are playing by the rules I played by in middle school. The ones where you don't call check and just sneak your pieces around.

 Melissia wrote:

Your semantical objections are irrelevant and I do not respect your obvious attempt to deflect conversation away from the topic at hand.

Your objections to these objections are irrelevant because on the one hand, as usual, you are unable to debate the topic at hand due to being overly emotional about it and unable to take a step back from your convictions, and on the other hand because you still are not able to back anything up with actual evidence. Making "logical conclusions" has no use for any discussion as those are entirely subjective. If you think that using the term "rape" in a context that does not involve actual rape leads to any change in attitude among the people using it or being confronted with it, then that's your opinion. The fact that there is zero actual evidence for your assumptions means that your assumptions are irrational, not logical.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nomotog wrote:
The owned thing makes more sense to me. It's a common typo to mix up the o and p keys. Even more common when your typing as fast as you can. Also you can't really capture a king with a pawn. You can use a pawn to put a king in check, but unless it is supported a lot, it's not going to work. Unless you are playing by the rules I played by in middle school. The ones where you don't call check and just sneak your pieces around.

Ugh, that was WAY in the past, but iirc, people came to the conclusion that "pwned" was preferred by some gamers because it's a "stronger" word due to the plosive at the word's beginning. No idea how it was invented, however...urban dictionary refers a misspelling in a Warcraft game, but alas...

 Ashiraya wrote:
I thought pwned came from owned, not the other way around?

Same here.

As I recall, it was a random typo that caught on as a meme.

Also - I do not think "getting owned" has ever been understood as a reference to slavery.

Saying "I raped you in that game" is inherently a reference to rape. The equivalent for slavery would be saying "I made you my slave in that game," which I have never heard.

I have seen gamers say things like that, actually. "I made you my [Female Dog]" is not uncommon of a post-victory boast when one person is competing personally against another and wants to taunt them; given the context, it feels to me like it references sex slavery (which is inherently rape to begin with).

I don't think "you got owned" relates to sex slavery, either in origin or in actual usage. That feels like a terrible stretch.

I get that it is aggressive language and is even more problematic when used alongside of language like "I raped you" and "I made you my bitch."

Oh, I was referring to the "made you my [female dog]" as a reference to sex slavery.

It's a statement of sexual ownership of someone whom is unwilling.

Saying "I made you my bitch" is certainly chauvinist and misogynistic. I disagree that it references sex slavery. I think the reference is to "real men" dominating other men as if they were women, which of course assumes dominating women is normative.

Male on male rape is actually an ancient thing they did as a action of domination over others. That's where the "not lie with a man as you would with a woman" thing comes from.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I thought [butthurt] meant 'This person is angry, they were spanked'.

I've always though of it as... uhm... deeper than that.

Honestly this whole discussion is assuming that humans in general have any intrinsic value at all, boobs or not.

Well, the squids are coming to conquer us, so maybe not.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Male on male rape is actually an ancient thing they did as a action of domination over others. That's where the "not lie with a man as you would with a woman" thing comes from.

...and it can also be found in mass media, i.e. Spartacus, Final Season where the one general rapes the other dude to prove his dominance and blackmail him.

thought pwned came from owned, not the other way around?

Same here.

As I recall, it was a random typo that caught on as a meme.

Yeah same here, I recall it from the early mmo pvp days.
People would win a game and type owned but with p right beside o on the keyboard, often it came out pwned and then it meme'd.
Pointless trivia for you.....continue.

 Goliath wrote:

 VorpalBunny74 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Since being defeated is a negative thing and winning is a positive thing in gamer culture, being a rapist is therefor insinuated by the culture as being a good thing.

Following that logic, as 'being owned' is an outdated but still used negative term in gaming, does that make gaming culture pro-slavery?

I'd say it's not quite as bad purely because of the way the term came about. 'raped' is quite obviously coming directly from the act of raping someone, which is awful. 'owned' on the other hand came about as a corruption of 'pwned' which basically meant a humiliating victory, because if you allowed your king to be taken by a pawn (PWN) in chess, you had been 'pwned'. So 'owned' is just a corruption of a term meaning a humiliating loss, whereas 'raped' is just people being awful.

It's been said a few times here, but that is so wildly inaccurate it deserves special mention.